Treason or Whistle Blower?

Should Edward Snowden be charged with Treason? WHY?

  • YES

    Votes: 19 21.3%
  • NO

    Votes: 70 78.7%

  • Total voters
    89
Not really. It won't matter whether they call him a leaker or a whistleblower. The administration is going to do what it's going to do regardless.

He leaked classified info. The non disclosure agreement he signed is clear on the punishment for his crime.

The admin will have nothing to do with it.

Yes, Obama did leak classified info:

The records, obtained pursuant to court order in a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed on January 21, 2012, include 153 pages of records from the DOD and 113 pages of records from the CIA (Judicial Watch v. U.S. Department of Defense (No. 1:12-cv-00049)). The documents were delivered to Judicial Watch late last Friday (May 18). The following are the highlights from the records, which include internal Defense Department email correspondence as well as a transcript from a key July 14, 2011, meeting between DOD officials, Bigelow and Boal:
•A transcript of a July 14, 2011, meeting between DOD officials, including Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Michael Vickers, Bigelow and Boal indicates that Boal met directly with White House officials on at least two occasions regarding the film: “I took your guidance and spoke to the WH and had a good meeting with Brennan and McDonough and I plan to follow up with them; and they were forward leaning and interested in sharing their point of view; command and control; so that was great, thank you,” Boal said according to the transcript. Vickers asks if the meeting was a follow-up, to which Boal responds, “Yes correct; this was a follow-up.” The documents seemingly reference John O. Brennan, Chief Counterterrorism Advisor to President Obama and Denis McDonough, who serves as President Obama’s Deputy National Security Advisor.
•The July 14, 2011, meeting transcript also reveals that the DOD provided the filmmakers with the identity of a “planner, SEAL Team 6 Operator and Commander.” (The name is blacked out in the document.) In proposing the arrangement, Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Michael Vickers said: “The only thing we ask is that you not reveal his name in any way as a consultant because . . . he shouldn’t be talking out of school.” Vickers went on to say during the meeting at the Pentagon: “This at least, this gives him one step removed and he knows what he can and can’t say, but this way at least he can be as open as he can with you and it ought to meet your needs.” Boal later responds, “You delivered.”
•A July 13, 2011, internal CIA email indicates that Bigelow and Boal were granted access to “the Vault,” which is described the CIA building where some of the tactical planning for the bin Laden raid took place: “I was given your name as the POC in [redacted] who could determine the feasibility of having a potential walk-through of…the Vault in the [redacted] building that was used for some of the tactical planning in the Bin Laden Raid [sic]. In consultation with the Office of Public Affairs and as part of the larger chronicling of the Bin Laden raid, OPA will be hosting some visitors sanctioned by ODCIA this Friday afternoon.” (The name of the sender is blacked out.) “Of course this is doable,” an official responds.
•DOD Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs Douglas Wilson told colleagues in a June 13, 2011, email to limit media access and that he would follow up with the White House: “I think this looks very good as a way forward, and agree particularly that we need to be careful here so we don’t open the media floodgates on this. I’m going to check with WH to update them on status, and will report back.” A day later, he wrote Department of Defense communications staffers, saying: “Ok to set up the second session with Vickers. I am getting additional guidance from WH.”
•Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Michael Vickers told Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs Douglas Wilson and two other DOD communications staffers in a June 13, 2011, email that “[DOD] would like to shape the story to prevent any gross inaccuracies, but do not want to make it look like the commanders think it’s okay to talk to the media.” The email went on to say: “For the intelligence case, they are basically using the WH-approved talking points we used the night of the operation.” The talking points called the raid “a ‘Gutsy Decision’ by the POTUS,” adding that “WH involvement was critical.”
•A June 9, 2011, email from Commander Bob Mehal, Public Affairs Officer for Defense Press Operations, to Vickers and other DOD staff summarizes a meeting with Boal and notes the release date for the film: “Release date set for 4th Qtr 2012…”
•A July 13, 2011, email to Commander Bob Mehal, Public Affairs Officer for Defense Press Operations, indicates that Sarah Zukowski, an associate for The Glover Park Group, arranged the July 14, 2011 visit by Bigelow and Boal to the DOD and the CIA. The Glover Park Group is described by Politico as a “Democratic-leaning advocacy firm.”
•A June 27, 2011, email to an official at the Office of the Secretary of Defense suggests that the request from Bigelow and Boal to meet with Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Michael Vickers came via the White House press office. A June 22, 2011, email to Commander Bob Mehal, Public Affairs Officer for Defense Press Operations notes, “The White House does want to engage with Mark but it probably won’t be for a few more weeks. We should provide them a read-out of the session you do with Vickers.” The name of the White House official who forwarded the request is blacked out.

Judicial Watch launched its investigation of Bigelow’s meetings with the Obama administration following press reports suggesting that the Obama administration may have leaked classified information to the director as source material for Bigelow’s film.

New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd wrote that the information leak was designed to help the Obama 2012 presidential reelection campaign: “The White House is also counting on the Kathryn Bigelow and Mark Boal big-screen version of the killing of Bin Laden to counter Obama’s growing reputation as ineffectual. The Sony film by the Oscar-winning pair who made ‘The Hurt Locker’ will no doubt reflect the president’s cool, gutsy decision against shaky odds. Just as Obamaland was hoping, the movie is scheduled to open on Oct. 12, 2012 — perfectly timed to give a home-stretch boost to a campaign that has grown tougher.”

In addition to Judicial Watch’s pursuit of the bin Laden film records, the organization continues to fight in court for the release of the bin Laden post-mortem photos and video. The Obama administration continues to withhold these records citing national security concerns.

“These documents, which took nine months and a federal lawsuit to disgorge from the Obama administration, show that politically-connected film makers were giving extraordinary and secret access to bin Laden raid information, including the identity of a Seal Team Six leader,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “It is both ironic and hypocritical that the Obama administration stonewalled Judicial Watch’s pursuit of the bin Laden death photos, citing national security concerns, yet seemed willing to share intimate details regarding the raid to help Hollywood filmmakers release a movie ‘perfectly timed to give a home-stretch boost’ to the Obama campaign.”


Judicial Watch Obtains DOD and CIA Records Detailing Meetings with bin Laden Raid Filmmakers | Judicial Watch

After reading what you posted I seemed to have missed anything given to 'Hollywood' which was classified. If I missed that please highlight it for me. That said, why wouldn't Obama take credit for getting OBL? 9-11 happened on the watch of GWB; the death of OBL on the watch of Obama. Which would you put on your CV?
 
He's a leaker, not a whistleblower. Whistleblower implies uncovering illegal activities. The NSA data collection is legal (unfortunately).

I STILL haven't been able to figure out how any of the people testifying in the so-called Benghazi hearings could be classified as whistle-blowers, and here the term is being used again.
 
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Both him and Bradley Manning should be given a medal, in my opinion. It's a sad day in America when the truth is considered treason.


Government Says Secret Court Opinion on Law Underlying PRISM Program Needs to Stay Secret


In a rare public filing in the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC), the Justice Department today urged continued secrecy for a 2011 FISC opinion that found the National Security Agency's surveillance under the FISA Amendments Act to be unconstitutional.
 
If he's convicted of Treason, every Militia from Texas to New York (yes we exist in New York) will recognize we are living under a Tyranny and resort to the example of Athens, Tennessee, 1946.

What are you waiting for?

Militia my ass.

This man will be convicted of something and he will be jailed. And you will do nothing but talk.
 
The penalty for treason is death. Classified info has been getting out for as long as I can remember. If w shot all of them, the cemetery would be running over.

I dont think anyone in the USA was killed for treason, espionage.....yes.
 
If Obama did it, it HAS to be legal! Same way if Congress passes a law with a majority, it can't be overturned by the Supreme Court, that would be unprecedented.

I'm fairly certain Obama never saw the inside of any law school
 
Congressmen already knew, but were restrained from disclosing the information by the same laws that constrained Snowden.

Had he mounted a legal challenge, he would have been immediately arrested.

The media...and a foreign media...was the only alternative.

Bullshit. He had other recourse as has been explained over and over on the news today. The reason he has not been "immediately arrested" is because he went to China. That and his salary with a defense contractor is suspect - how many "regualar guys" with a GED earn $200,000 per year?

If you believe that, you are incredibly naive.

I have some experience in this area.

This was IMO the ONLY way this information was going to have any effect on government operations...by having it so widely publicly disseminated that it could not possibly be quarantined.



And here is the proof, Brother...

From the same article about Holder fighting to have the courts opinion kept secret...
This important case—all the more relevant in the wake of this week's disclosures—was triggered after Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), a member of the Senate intelligence committee, started crying foul in 2011 about US government snooping. As a member of the intelligence committee, he had learned about domestic surveillance activity affecting American citizens that he believed was improper.



He and Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.), another intelligence committee member, raised only vague warnings about this data collection, because they could not reveal the details of the classified program that concerned them.



But in July 2012, Wyden was able to get the Office of the Director of National Intelligence to declassify two statements that he wanted to issue publicly. They were:
* On at least one occasion the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court held that some collection carried out pursuant to the Section 702 minimization procedures used by the government was unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment.


* I believe that the government's implementation of Section 702 of FISA [the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act] has sometimes circumvented the spirit of the law, and on at least one occasion the FISA Court has reached this same conclusion.
For those who follow the secret and often complex world of high-tech government spying, this was an aha moment.

Justice Department Fights Release of Secret Court Opinion Finding Unconstitutional Surveillance | Mother Jones

So here you go...from a nice left leaning site.

These two Democrat congressmen have been working on this for TWO YEARS...and the administration has been fighting them tooth and nail.

AND WINNING!

Two congressmen couldn't get anything accomplished in two years, what was Snowden going to do within the system to bring this information to light???

The power of the government in this circumstance is all but insurmountable.
 
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Dear nutters,

Here is the deal. Our nation.......this grand experiment.......is different from all others PRECISELY because we have established the rule of law......and THEREFORE.....are able to actually trust our government.

You see.....we have elections.....and we have courts which are accessible to all citizens. When the government does that which is unlawful.....we have a course of action OTHER than the bullshit method that 2A is suggesting here. And..when those we elect to represent us fail to do so to our satisfaction.....we have legal ways to remove them every two, four or six years.

You all have lost faith in this country and in your fellow Americans. At the same time. You have WILLINGLY handed over more and more power to UNELECTED leaders of multinationals. The shit that Snowden was doing was PRIVATE SECTOR contract shit. The CEO of that company is not answerable to us. See anything wrong with that?

Trust in our constitution.....and in the rule of law. Doing so does not make you naive....it makes you AMERICAN.
 
You need a selection of "I don't know yet" because I don't know yet if it's treason or what.

You could say its treason since the guy is telling on the government and letting people who may what to harm the United States a heads up. Then again, you can say its heroic because he's telling on the government for breaking the law and it's unconstitutional.
 
Obama and Obamabots would love to kill Snowden as he specifically said that Obama was expanding the domestic intelligence state.
And we all know that Obie is thin-skinned........and Obamabots loyal lemmings.......
 
Lakhota on Snowden:

From what I've heard and read at this point in time - it looks like treason to me.

Lakhota on Manning:

Manning should receive the Medal of Freedom and promoted to General.


What a tool.

Is it possible to achieve negative credibility?

I always assumed zero was rock bottom, but I'm having second thoughts.
 
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Lakhota on Sowden:

From what I've heard and read at this point in time - it looks like treason to me.

Lakhota on Manning:

Manning should receive the Medal of Freedom and promoted to General.


What a tool.

Is it possible to achieve negative credibility?

I always assumed zero was rock bottom, but I'm having second thoughts.

Actually, I was being somewhat facetious about Manning. "Promoted to General" should have been a hint. Manning obviously deserves punishment, but I view what Snowden did as being more harmful to national security.
 
You need a selection of "I don't know yet" because I don't know yet if it's treason or what.

You could say its treason since the guy is telling on the government and letting people who may what to harm the United States a heads up. Then again, you can say its heroic because he's telling on the government for breaking the law and it's unconstitutional.

Your right its still early to tell all the details, manning was treason but with thiis guy? was he sincere? he left his girlfriend in Hawaii took off and then spoke up. Was he trying to be a patriot and trying to warn us or did he have ulterior motives?
 
Lakhota on Sowden:

From what I've heard and read at this point in time - it looks like treason to me.

Lakhota on Manning:

Manning should receive the Medal of Freedom and promoted to General.


What a tool.

Is it possible to achieve negative credibility?

I always assumed zero was rock bottom, but I'm having second thoughts.

Actually, I was being somewhat facetious about Manning. "Promoted to General" should have been a hint. Manning obviously deserves punishment, but I view what Snowden did as being more harmful to national security.

What? the NSA does not have anything to do with internal. thats the FBI field. they went beyond the patriot act...
National Security Agency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The National Security Agency (NSA) is a cryptologic intelligence agency of the United States Department of Defense responsible for the collection and analysis of foreign communications and foreign signals intelligence, as well as protecting U.S. government communications and information systems,[1] which involves information security and cryptanalysis/cryptography.
 
No, its not. The patriot act does not legalize this type of data gathering.

Yes it does, that isn't in question. It shouldn't, but it most certainly does.


I really don't think it does, Seawytch.

A warrant requires probable cause that a crime has been committed.

No cause, no warrant...no warrant, no information.

Ergo, illegal.

Holder knows this...another example of the Obama administration attempting to hide the truth...

In the midst of revelations that the government has conducted extensive top-secret surveillance operations to collect domestic phone records and internet communications, the Justice Department was due to file a court motion Friday in its effort to keep secret an 86-page court opinion that determined that the government had violated the spirit of federal surveillance laws and engaged in unconstitutional spying.

Justice Department Fights Release of Secret Court Opinion Finding Unconstitutional Surveillance | Mother Jones



each of which began during the Bush administration and were carried out under congressional oversight and FISA court review[...]

There's no telling if the 86-page FISA court opinion EFF seeks is directly related to either of these two programs
 
Yes it does, that isn't in question. It shouldn't, but it most certainly does.


I really don't think it does, Seawytch.

A warrant requires probable cause that a crime has been committed.

No cause, no warrant...no warrant, no information.

Ergo, illegal.

Holder knows this...another example of the Obama administration attempting to hide the truth...
In the midst of revelations that the government has conducted extensive top-secret surveillance operations to collect domestic phone records and internet communications, the Justice Department was due to file a court motion Friday in its effort to keep secret an 86-page court opinion that determined that the government had violated the spirit of federal surveillance laws and engaged in unconstitutional spying.

Justice Department Fights Release of Secret Court Opinion Finding Unconstitutional Surveillance | Mother Jones



each of which began during the Bush administration and were carried out under congressional oversight and FISA court review[...]

There's no telling if the 86-page FISA court opinion EFF seeks is directly related to either of these two programs


Oh, I think there is...
The FISA court Wyden referred to oversees the surveillance programs run by the government, authorizing requests for various surveillance activities related to national security, and it does this behind a thick cloak of secrecy.

Wyden's statements led to an obvious conclusion: He had seen a secret FISA court opinion that ruled that one surveillance program was unconstitutional and violated the spirit of the law.

But, yet again, Wyden could not publicly identify this program.

Enter the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a public interest group focused on digital rights. It quickly filed a Freedom of Information Act request with the Justice Department for any written opinion or order of the FISA court that held government surveillance was improper or unconstitutional.



[Same article and link as above]

Senator Wyden (D-OR) is one of the two Intelligence Committee members opposed to this "dragnet" approach to collecting information on all Americans.


But if the Justice Department and Holder...and by extension, Obama...get their way, there will definitely be no telling.
 
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Congress should appoint Snowden as the Special Prosecutor

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