Treason or Whistle Blower?

[Kevin_Kennedy]

He's a leaker, not a whistleblower. Whistleblower implies uncovering illegal activities. The NSA data collection is legal (unfortunately).

A distinction without a difference.

There is a great difference when it comes to charging him with the criminal activity he engaged in.

Not really. It won't matter whether they call him a leaker or a whistleblower. The administration is going to do what it's going to do regardless.

 

[Bill Angel]

I thought this the most interesting and puzzling question, "If the NSA Trusted Edward Snowden With Our Data, Why Should We Trust the NSA?" Consider for a moment we accept this monitoring as the price we pay for a bit of security, but then consider the people trusted with information are untrustworthy. Or the next administration using this in another manner? Given so much is monitored already how much can we really care.

Edward Snowden: Why did the NSA whistleblower have access to PRISM and other sensitive systems?

Good point.
But however you slice it and dice it:

"BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU"

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

The issue is not what Obama has allegedly done, but what one employee did. I'd be happy to debate you on the former elsewhere; why not look at the behavior in question in this thread and explain why Snowden's behavior is not criminal? Put your bias aside and critically examine your opinion and if you still believe he is not culpable explain why.

THERE IT IS^^^^^^ In black and white.. Fuck what Obama did.. did the same fucking thing- This asshole whistleblower made our boy King look bad.

Is a Fucking Question and a Fucking thing different than a question and a thing? I think you're a bigoted ignoramus, if I were to think you're a fucking bigoted ignoramus is that something worse?

I'm a BIGOT because I point out an uncomfortable truth that you ZOMBIES can't deny or cover up?? LOL

 

[Seawytch]

A distinction without a difference.

There is a great difference when it comes to charging him with the criminal activity he engaged in.

Not really. It won't matter whether they call him a leaker or a whistleblower. The administration is going to do what it's going to do regardless.

He leaked classified info. The non disclosure agreement he signed is clear on the punishment for his crime.

The admin will have nothing to do with it.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

There is a great difference when it comes to charging him with the criminal activity he engaged in.

Not really. It won't matter whether they call him a leaker or a whistleblower. The administration is going to do what it's going to do regardless.

He leaked classified info. The non disclosure agreement he signed is clear on the punishment for his crime.

The admin will have nothing to do with it.

Which is not what I've been referring to, as I made clear in my last post.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Obama should be impeached for failing to to uphold the Constitution

This has nothing to do with the topic. You wanted Obama impeached before he ever took office. Hack.

Obama violated our 4th Amendment rights, he failed to uphold the Constitution

(I knew Liberals were stupid, but you really do have to spell it all out for them)

Frankly Frank you're being ridiculous. You've made an allegation, post the specific case wherein the 4th Amendment was violated by the President of the United States. Be specific, don't parrot something broadcast on Fox or posted by another member of the echo chamber.

 

[Wry Catcher]

THERE IT IS^^^^^^ In black and white.. Fuck what Obama did.. did the same fucking thing- This asshole whistleblower made our boy King look bad.

Is a Fucking Question and a Fucking thing different than a question and a thing? I think you're a bigoted ignoramus, if I were to think you're a fucking bigoted ignoramus is that something worse?

I'm a BIGOT because I point out an uncomfortable truth that you ZOMBIES can't deny or cover up?? LOL

No, you're a bigot because ignorance is the father of bigotry.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

There is a great difference when it comes to charging him with the criminal activity he engaged in.

Not really. It won't matter whether they call him a leaker or a whistleblower. The administration is going to do what it's going to do regardless.

He leaked classified info. The non disclosure agreement he signed is clear on the punishment for his crime.

The admin will have nothing to do with it.

Yes, Obama did leak classified info:

The records, obtained pursuant to court order in a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed on January 21, 2012, include 153 pages of records from the DOD and 113 pages of records from the CIA (Judicial Watch v. U.S. Department of Defense (No. 1:12-cv-00049)). The documents were delivered to Judicial Watch late last Friday (May 18). The following are the highlights from the records, which include internal Defense Department email correspondence as well as a transcript from a key July 14, 2011, meeting between DOD officials, Bigelow and Boal:
•A transcript of a July 14, 2011, meeting between DOD officials, including Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Michael Vickers, Bigelow and Boal indicates that Boal met directly with White House officials on at least two occasions regarding the film: “I took your guidance and spoke to the WH and had a good meeting with Brennan and McDonough and I plan to follow up with them; and they were forward leaning and interested in sharing their point of view; command and control; so that was great, thank you,” Boal said according to the transcript. Vickers asks if the meeting was a follow-up, to which Boal responds, “Yes correct; this was a follow-up.” The documents seemingly reference John O. Brennan, Chief Counterterrorism Advisor to President Obama and Denis McDonough, who serves as President Obama’s Deputy National Security Advisor.
•The July 14, 2011, meeting transcript also reveals that the DOD provided the filmmakers with the identity of a “planner, SEAL Team 6 Operator and Commander.” (The name is blacked out in the document.) In proposing the arrangement, Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Michael Vickers said: “The only thing we ask is that you not reveal his name in any way as a consultant because . . . he shouldn’t be talking out of school.” Vickers went on to say during the meeting at the Pentagon: “This at least, this gives him one step removed and he knows what he can and can’t say, but this way at least he can be as open as he can with you and it ought to meet your needs.” Boal later responds, “You delivered.”
•A July 13, 2011, internal CIA email indicates that Bigelow and Boal were granted access to “the Vault,” which is described the CIA building where some of the tactical planning for the bin Laden raid took place: “I was given your name as the POC in [redacted] who could determine the feasibility of having a potential walk-through of…the Vault in the [redacted] building that was used for some of the tactical planning in the Bin Laden Raid [sic]. In consultation with the Office of Public Affairs and as part of the larger chronicling of the Bin Laden raid, OPA will be hosting some visitors sanctioned by ODCIA this Friday afternoon.” (The name of the sender is blacked out.) “Of course this is doable,” an official responds.
•DOD Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs Douglas Wilson told colleagues in a June 13, 2011, email to limit media access and that he would follow up with the White House: “I think this looks very good as a way forward, and agree particularly that we need to be careful here so we don’t open the media floodgates on this. I’m going to check with WH to update them on status, and will report back.” A day later, he wrote Department of Defense communications staffers, saying: “Ok to set up the second session with Vickers. I am getting additional guidance from WH.”
•Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Michael Vickers told Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs Douglas Wilson and two other DOD communications staffers in a June 13, 2011, email that “[DOD] would like to shape the story to prevent any gross inaccuracies, but do not want to make it look like the commanders think it’s okay to talk to the media.” The email went on to say: “For the intelligence case, they are basically using the WH-approved talking points we used the night of the operation.” The talking points called the raid “a ‘Gutsy Decision’ by the POTUS,” adding that “WH involvement was critical.”
•A June 9, 2011, email from Commander Bob Mehal, Public Affairs Officer for Defense Press Operations, to Vickers and other DOD staff summarizes a meeting with Boal and notes the release date for the film: “Release date set for 4th Qtr 2012…”
•A July 13, 2011, email to Commander Bob Mehal, Public Affairs Officer for Defense Press Operations, indicates that Sarah Zukowski, an associate for The Glover Park Group, arranged the July 14, 2011 visit by Bigelow and Boal to the DOD and the CIA. The Glover Park Group is described by Politico as a “Democratic-leaning advocacy firm.”
•A June 27, 2011, email to an official at the Office of the Secretary of Defense suggests that the request from Bigelow and Boal to meet with Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Michael Vickers came via the White House press office. A June 22, 2011, email to Commander Bob Mehal, Public Affairs Officer for Defense Press Operations notes, “The White House does want to engage with Mark but it probably won’t be for a few more weeks. We should provide them a read-out of the session you do with Vickers.” The name of the White House official who forwarded the request is blacked out.

Judicial Watch launched its investigation of Bigelow’s meetings with the Obama administration following press reports suggesting that the Obama administration may have leaked classified information to the director as source material for Bigelow’s film.

New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd wrote that the information leak was designed to help the Obama 2012 presidential reelection campaign: “The White House is also counting on the Kathryn Bigelow and Mark Boal big-screen version of the killing of Bin Laden to counter Obama’s growing reputation as ineffectual. The Sony film by the Oscar-winning pair who made ‘The Hurt Locker’ will no doubt reflect the president’s cool, gutsy decision against shaky odds. Just as Obamaland was hoping, the movie is scheduled to open on Oct. 12, 2012 — perfectly timed to give a home-stretch boost to a campaign that has grown tougher.”

In addition to Judicial Watch’s pursuit of the bin Laden film records, the organization continues to fight in court for the release of the bin Laden post-mortem photos and video. The Obama administration continues to withhold these records citing national security concerns.

“These documents, which took nine months and a federal lawsuit to disgorge from the Obama administration, show that politically-connected film makers were giving extraordinary and secret access to bin Laden raid information, including the identity of a Seal Team Six leader,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “It is both ironic and hypocritical that the Obama administration stonewalled Judicial Watch’s pursuit of the bin Laden death photos, citing national security concerns, yet seemed willing to share intimate details regarding the raid to help Hollywood filmmakers release a movie ‘perfectly timed to give a home-stretch boost’ to the Obama campaign.”


Judicial Watch Obtains DOD and CIA Records Detailing Meetings with bin Laden Raid Filmmakers | Judicial Watch

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

Is a Fucking Question and a Fucking thing different than a question and a thing? I think you're a bigoted ignoramus, if I were to think you're a fucking bigoted ignoramus is that something worse?

I'm a BIGOT because I point out an uncomfortable truth that you ZOMBIES can't deny or cover up?? LOL

No, you're a bigot because ignorance is the father of bigotry.

LMAO Huh??? I love it.. you're fuckin steamed because I just showed you to be a DAMN HYPOCRITE! Your talking points are nothing more than FAUX outage Zombie!

 

[Sunshine]

The penalty for treason is death. Classified info has been getting out for as long as I can remember. If w shot all of them, the cemetery would be running over.

 

[Missourian]

Government is not supposed to use the 'SECRET' label to cover up illegal activity.

But in this case it seems that the NSA program was legal. Records were obtained under a court order.

This guy had no right to disclose secret information, just because he didn't approve of the program personally. He should be charged appropriately.

If he had any qualms about the program he should have written his congressman or taken up a legal action to challenge the law that the program was based on.

Congressmen already knew, but were restrained from disclosing the information by the same laws that constrained Snowden.

Had he mounted a legal challenge, he would have been immediately arrested.

The media...and a foreign media...was the only alternative.

Bullshit. He had other recourse as has been explained over and over on the news today. The reason he has not been "immediately arrested" is because he went to China. That and his salary with a defense contractor is suspect - how many "regualar guys" with a GED earn $200,000 per year?

If you believe that, you are incredibly naive.

I have some experience in this area.

This was IMO the ONLY way this information was going to have any effect on government operations...by having it so widely publicly disseminated that it could not possibly be quarantined.

 

[Caroljo]

Both him and Bradley Manning should be given a medal, in my opinion. It's a sad day in America when the truth is considered treason.

so you and Kevin believe everything which the Federal does must be done in public for everyone in the world to be privy to and nothing should be secret?

So before June 6, 1944 The Federal Government had a duty to have a press conference to announce the invasion and if they did not an officer in IKE's command would have a duty to tell the news and thus Hitler?

Where in hell did you get THAT from?? So you think it's ok for the government to SPY on US citizens without a just cause? Wow!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Both him and Bradley Manning should be given a medal, in my opinion. It's a sad day in America when the truth is considered treason.

so you and Kevin believe everything which the Federal does must be done in public for everyone in the world to be privy to and nothing should be secret?

So before June 6, 1944 The Federal Government had a duty to have a press conference to announce the invasion and if they did not an officer in IKE's command would have a duty to tell the news and thus Hitler?

Where in hell did you get THAT from?? So you think it's ok for the government to SPY on US citizens without a just cause? Wow!

Yes, yes he does think that. He said it doesn't matter what Obama does

 

[Redfish]

He's a leaker, not a whistleblower. Whistleblower implies uncovering illegal activities. The NSA data collection is legal (unfortunately).

No, its not. The patriot act does not legalize this type of data gathering.

 

[Caroljo]

Yet you ignore the fact that we are a nation of law. Therein is the big flaw of Libertarian 'thinking.

Everyone see's right through you . You're pissed this guy outted your messiah.. nothing more. He made him look like the TYRANT he truly is.. and that's the ONLY reason you want him jailed.. We still haven't heard you call for Obama's arrest for doing the same damn thing- leaking classified INTEL.

Your ignorance LGS is only surpassed by your partisanship and hate for the President.

Emotion has nothing to do with my opinion in this matter. We have laws and citizens who believe a law is flawed have recourse. Those who disobey a law and runaway are not only criminals they are cowards. Read On thr Duty of Civil Disobedience and the 'heroic' behavior of Thoreau (no he was not a Frenchman).

I would LOVE to hear your opinion if this had been about a Republican president doing this....if someone turned a Rep in for this you would be jumping for joy!! You're not bullshitting anyone....

 

[Seawytch]

LSG, posting what I just read is still not supporting your claim that President Obama disclosed Classified info.

Have you ever had access to classified material?

 

[Seawytch]

He's a leaker, not a whistleblower. Whistleblower implies uncovering illegal activities. The NSA data collection is legal (unfortunately).

No, its not. The patriot act does not legalize this type of data gathering.

Yes it does, that isn't in question. It shouldn't, but it most certainly does.

 

[Mustang]

Both him and Bradley Manning should be given a medal, in my opinion. It's a sad day in America when the truth is considered treason.

Does that apply to Daniel Ellsberg too?

Daniel Ellsberg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Redfish]

He's a leaker, not a whistleblower. Whistleblower implies uncovering illegal activities. The NSA data collection is legal (unfortunately).

No, its not. The patriot act does not legalize this type of data gathering.

Yes it does, that isn't in question. It shouldn't, but it most certainly does.

warrants are required under the patiot act, warrants from the fisa court.

as usual, you are wrong.

 

[Missourian]

He's a leaker, not a whistleblower. Whistleblower implies uncovering illegal activities. The NSA data collection is legal (unfortunately).

No, its not. The patriot act does not legalize this type of data gathering.

Yes it does, that isn't in question. It shouldn't, but it most certainly does.

I really don't think it does, Seawytch.

A warrant requires probable cause that a crime has been committed.

No cause, no warrant...no warrant, no information.

Ergo, illegal.

Holder knows this...another example of the Obama administration attempting to hide the truth...

In the midst of revelations that the government has conducted extensive top-secret surveillance operations to collect domestic phone records and internet communications, the Justice Department was due to file a court motion Friday in its effort to keep secret an 86-page court opinion that determined that the government had violated the spirit of federal surveillance laws and engaged in unconstitutional spying.

Justice Department Fights Release of Secret Court Opinion Finding Unconstitutional Surveillance | Mother Jones


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