Trump campaign DID collude with Russia

[dudmuck]

It seems you on the right are the only ones obsessed with Hillary. Almost every post is about her and how we on the left are decrying her loss. Most of us don't give a shit. We just want someone sane and stable at the helm. We've suffered through GOP administrations before as has the rest of America but at least we knew that our differences were ideological and political and not there because we had a nutjob in the white house. I disagreed with W and Reagan and others but this is concern for a whole other reason or set of reasons. We see that we have an unstable, clueless, vile human being in a position of authority so far beyond his skill set that it threatens national security and the moral authority of the U.S. in the eyes of the world. We never thought that those other administrations were a threat to the very fabric of our system. We always knew that whatever damage was done by bad policies were mend able and could be set right by future policy makers. This is not the case with the Trump poison spreading through the world. This damage may very well be permanent and unfixable. That's what you Trumpers don't understand. We'd gladly take even W back or Mike Pence. This is not normal.

Hillary keeps inserting herself into the conversation with her incessant "it wasn't my fault" tours. Are we supposed to just ignore her? I mean, she's very useful, reminding everyone of possibly the most embarrassing presidential loss in history.

I don't know where you're looking to find her in the media. I almost never see her or hear anything about her except on this forum. Fess up. You mention her for two reasons, to deflect from the Trump mess and to accuse the left of being "butt Hurt." Whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean. Just one in a large series of talking points repeated over and over ad nauseum. Personally, I read news papers, Magazines and catch TV news from lots of places but I rarely hear her name with the exception of Fox News, on there she's mentioned a lot. Why? Because it's a tool, a distraction from what's really happening in Washington. Forget Hillary. I have and I almost never hear her name from any of my liberal friends. But just like Fox News I hear it from my Conservative friends. Yes, I have friends of all political persuasions. We've made a pact not to talk politics when we're together. So to summarize, I'm not "Butt hurt" or obsessed with Hillary or Bill or Obama or Bush. But Trump is another story. I believe him to be a clear and present danger to our country. I see that he has no interest in admonishing Putin for the dirty tricks in our election or the murdering of people who oppose him in any way. I see a President who refuses to take him on for these things and just the opposite. He praises him incessantly and even calls to congratulate him for HIS "election victory" The fact that the right doesn't find that bizarre and crazy amazes me and every other person who is not just totally enamored with this guy. It should make ANYONE suspicious of why.

First, Trump congratulating Putin on his election victory is a long standing tradition, something that other presidents have done, so that would lead me to think you're reciting talking points instead of evaluating the whole story.

Second, I talk about Hillary because I'm still delighted she lost her bid for the presidency, AGAIN. It has nothing to do with deflecting from Trump. The fact that democrats don't want to talk about her is not surprising.

The president does not congratulate a sham election, especially just after they poisoned one of their former spies on British soil. But more important than trump congratulating Putin, was that him doing it was leaked, which means the only way to get thru to Trump is to leak his misdeeds to the press. The leaks are a sign of complete disfunction in the whitehouse.

And yes talking about Hillary is a deflection, because she is irrelevant. You have nothing positive to say about Trump, so all your have is Trump's russian-assisted victory.

And we are all very grateful Hillary is irrelevant. She, however, refuses to accept that reality, and since she and her acolytes keep whining about how she was "cheated" (interesting that you couldn't resist that little "russian-assisted" gaff), so we have fun with them. When she realizes it really was her fault and shuts up, and her acolytes on here stop whining about her humiliating loss, you won't see much more about her. Unless, that is, she lands in more trouble.

Its no gaffe, its reality. The amount of anti-hillary propaganda from russia was overwhelming, due to the assistance of right wing sites.
Collusion is more solid than ever, considering that previously Roger Stone claimed to be in contact with Guccifer 2.0 last year, and just now revealed that this hacker was actually a russian agent.

Conservatism has been transformed into authoritarianism; at least the loyal segment of Trump's base. RIP tea party.

 

[Faun]

Who read and believed the fake news Russia used to elect him...

They also listened to what he said, what Hillary said and decided they wanted her less than they wanted him. A few Facebook posts didn't change their minds.

Trump won three key states, (46 electoral votes),by only 80k votes. That's only one district per state.

It would only take a very small percentage of those exposed to Russian propoganda who believed it and voted accordinly to acheive those results.

Russian propaganda on facebook was both pro Trump and pro Hillary, as well as anti Trump and anti Hillary.

What the Russians wanted to do is get us all screaming at each other and not working together--------------because of fools like you and the stupid media pukes, they succeeded.

All intelligence agencies came to the conclusion that Russia overwhelmingly supported trump with fake ads damaging Hillary....nice try though.

yeah, sure. the same intelligence agencies that were trying to undermine Trump with a fake dossier, the same media that continuously lied, and is still lying?

don't be so fricken naïve. look up the word conspiracy and you will find the definition of the clowns at the top of the FBI and DOJ during the 2016 campaign.

Hillary lost because the American voters understood who and what she is, not because of the Russians spending a few thousand $ posting on facebook.

You’re fucking nuts.

No intelligence agency tried to undermine trump with a dossier.

 

[hadit]

It was the 80k democrats that refused to vote for HIllary.

It was the 80k democrats that refused to vote for HIllary.

Sure. Probably because they believed things about her that were not true.

What!?! Lies being told about a candidate in an election? What's next, cats and dogs living together?

It is to laugh, heartily.

What!?! Lies being told about a candidate in an election?

Yes. By a foreign adversary no less.

Yes, the Steele dossier certainly is a bit of a problem, isn't it?

It seems to be part of a big problem for Trump and a diversion for you.

Not really. It does represent lies about a candidate by a foreign adversary, though.

 

[Wickerthing]

Trump won three key states, (46 electoral votes),by only 80k votes. That's only one district per state.

It would only take a very small percentage of those exposed to Russian propoganda who believed it and voted accordinly to acheive those results.

Russian propaganda on facebook was both pro Trump and pro Hillary, as well as anti Trump and anti Hillary.

What the Russians wanted to do is get us all screaming at each other and not working together--------------because of fools like you and the stupid media pukes, they succeeded.

All intelligence agencies came to the conclusion that Russia overwhelmingly supported trump with fake ads damaging Hillary....nice try though.

yeah, sure. the same intelligence agencies that were trying to undermine Trump with a fake dossier, the same media that continuously lied, and is still lying?

don't be so fricken naïve. look up the word conspiracy and you will find the definition of the clowns at the top of the FBI and DOJ during the 2016 campaign.

Hillary lost because the American voters understood who and what she is, not because of the Russians spending a few thousand $ posting on facebook.

You are such a loser....like your daddy trump....

Loser? Losers don't win. Hillary and you are losers. The bitch lost to the black guy and then to Trump. If the DNC hadn't rigged it, she probably would have lost to Bernie too.

and since Trump and I are the same age its unlikely that he was my daddy. Who was your daddy? was it Webb Hubbell who also "sired" Chelsea Clinton (according to Bill Clinton)

Well, now we know why you are a Trumper don't we? The black guy? You must have been in your glory when the events in Charlottesville were going on. Very revealing post. Now we know exactly who we're dealing with. BTW, "the black guy" was ten times the man that Trump will ever be and so intellectually superior to him that Trump and folks like you can't stand it. It was so obvious that Bohner and McConnell couldn't deal with that fact. That's one major reason they blocked every initiative and every attempt at making life better for the have-nots. And it's the reason that Trump has dismantled every accomplishment. White supremists backed by other white supremists like yourself.

 

[hadit]

Hillary keeps inserting herself into the conversation with her incessant "it wasn't my fault" tours. Are we supposed to just ignore her? I mean, she's very useful, reminding everyone of possibly the most embarrassing presidential loss in history.

I don't know where you're looking to find her in the media. I almost never see her or hear anything about her except on this forum. Fess up. You mention her for two reasons, to deflect from the Trump mess and to accuse the left of being "butt Hurt." Whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean. Just one in a large series of talking points repeated over and over ad nauseum. Personally, I read news papers, Magazines and catch TV news from lots of places but I rarely hear her name with the exception of Fox News, on there she's mentioned a lot. Why? Because it's a tool, a distraction from what's really happening in Washington. Forget Hillary. I have and I almost never hear her name from any of my liberal friends. But just like Fox News I hear it from my Conservative friends. Yes, I have friends of all political persuasions. We've made a pact not to talk politics when we're together. So to summarize, I'm not "Butt hurt" or obsessed with Hillary or Bill or Obama or Bush. But Trump is another story. I believe him to be a clear and present danger to our country. I see that he has no interest in admonishing Putin for the dirty tricks in our election or the murdering of people who oppose him in any way. I see a President who refuses to take him on for these things and just the opposite. He praises him incessantly and even calls to congratulate him for HIS "election victory" The fact that the right doesn't find that bizarre and crazy amazes me and every other person who is not just totally enamored with this guy. It should make ANYONE suspicious of why.

First, Trump congratulating Putin on his election victory is a long standing tradition, something that other presidents have done, so that would lead me to think you're reciting talking points instead of evaluating the whole story.

Second, I talk about Hillary because I'm still delighted she lost her bid for the presidency, AGAIN. It has nothing to do with deflecting from Trump. The fact that democrats don't want to talk about her is not surprising.

The president does not congratulate a sham election, especially just after they poisoned one of their former spies on British soil. But more important than trump congratulating Putin, was that him doing it was leaked, which means the only way to get thru to Trump is to leak his misdeeds to the press. The leaks are a sign of complete disfunction in the whitehouse.

And yes talking about Hillary is a deflection, because she is irrelevant. You have nothing positive to say about Trump, so all your have is Trump's russian-assisted victory.

And we are all very grateful Hillary is irrelevant. She, however, refuses to accept that reality, and since she and her acolytes keep whining about how she was "cheated" (interesting that you couldn't resist that little "russian-assisted" gaff), so we have fun with them. When she realizes it really was her fault and shuts up, and her acolytes on here stop whining about her humiliating loss, you won't see much more about her. Unless, that is, she lands in more trouble.

Its no gaffe, its reality. The amount of anti-hillary propaganda from russia was overwhelming, due to the assistance of right wing sites.
Collusion is more solid than ever, considering that previously Roger Stone claimed to be in contact with Guccifer 2.0 last year, and just now revealed that this hacker was actually a russian agent.

Conservatism has been transformed into authoritarianism; at least the loyal segment of Trump's base. RIP tea party.

She'll probably end up in more trouble. She can't seem to keep her foot out of her mouth. At any rate, she couldn't beat Trump, despite cheating her way through the primaries and with the help of a sycophantic press. Now she's just blaming everyone but herself.

 

[Wickerthing]

I don't know where you're looking to find her in the media. I almost never see her or hear anything about her except on this forum. Fess up. You mention her for two reasons, to deflect from the Trump mess and to accuse the left of being "butt Hurt." Whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean. Just one in a large series of talking points repeated over and over ad nauseum. Personally, I read news papers, Magazines and catch TV news from lots of places but I rarely hear her name with the exception of Fox News, on there she's mentioned a lot. Why? Because it's a tool, a distraction from what's really happening in Washington. Forget Hillary. I have and I almost never hear her name from any of my liberal friends. But just like Fox News I hear it from my Conservative friends. Yes, I have friends of all political persuasions. We've made a pact not to talk politics when we're together. So to summarize, I'm not "Butt hurt" or obsessed with Hillary or Bill or Obama or Bush. But Trump is another story. I believe him to be a clear and present danger to our country. I see that he has no interest in admonishing Putin for the dirty tricks in our election or the murdering of people who oppose him in any way. I see a President who refuses to take him on for these things and just the opposite. He praises him incessantly and even calls to congratulate him for HIS "election victory" The fact that the right doesn't find that bizarre and crazy amazes me and every other person who is not just totally enamored with this guy. It should make ANYONE suspicious of why.

First, Trump congratulating Putin on his election victory is a long standing tradition, something that other presidents have done, so that would lead me to think you're reciting talking points instead of evaluating the whole story.

Second, I talk about Hillary because I'm still delighted she lost her bid for the presidency, AGAIN. It has nothing to do with deflecting from Trump. The fact that democrats don't want to talk about her is not surprising.

The president does not congratulate a sham election, especially just after they poisoned one of their former spies on British soil. But more important than trump congratulating Putin, was that him doing it was leaked, which means the only way to get thru to Trump is to leak his misdeeds to the press. The leaks are a sign of complete disfunction in the whitehouse.

And yes talking about Hillary is a deflection, because she is irrelevant. You have nothing positive to say about Trump, so all your have is Trump's russian-assisted victory.

And we are all very grateful Hillary is irrelevant. She, however, refuses to accept that reality, and since she and her acolytes keep whining about how she was "cheated" (interesting that you couldn't resist that little "russian-assisted" gaff), so we have fun with them. When she realizes it really was her fault and shuts up, and her acolytes on here stop whining about her humiliating loss, you won't see much more about her. Unless, that is, she lands in more trouble.

Its no gaffe, its reality. The amount of anti-hillary propaganda from russia was overwhelming, due to the assistance of right wing sites.
Collusion is more solid than ever, considering that previously Roger Stone claimed to be in contact with Guccifer 2.0 last year, and just now revealed that this hacker was actually a russian agent.

Conservatism has been transformed into authoritarianism; at least the loyal segment of Trump's base. RIP tea party.

She'll probably end up in more trouble. She can't seem to keep her foot out of her mouth. At any rate, she couldn't beat Trump, despite cheating her way through the primaries and with the help of a sycophantic press. Now she's just blaming everyone but herself.

Hillary. Hillary Hillary! But it's us on the left that are obsessed with her loss? LOL

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Sure. Probably because they believed things about her that were not true.

What!?! Lies being told about a candidate in an election? What's next, cats and dogs living together?

It is to laugh, heartily.

What!?! Lies being told about a candidate in an election?

Yes. By a foreign adversary no less.

Yes, the Steele dossier certainly is a bit of a problem, isn't it?

It seems to be part of a big problem for Trump and a diversion for you.

Not really. It does represent lies about a candidate by a foreign adversary, though.

A former British agent is a foreign adversary?

Who knew?

 

[dudmuck]

What!?! Lies being told about a candidate in an election? What's next, cats and dogs living together?

It is to laugh, heartily.

What!?! Lies being told about a candidate in an election?

Yes. By a foreign adversary no less.

Yes, the Steele dossier certainly is a bit of a problem, isn't it?

It seems to be part of a big problem for Trump and a diversion for you.

Not really. It does represent lies about a candidate by a foreign adversary, though.

A former British agent is a foreign adversary?

Who knew?

The enemy of fascists are always non-fascists.

 

[Wickerthing]

What!?! Lies being told about a candidate in an election? What's next, cats and dogs living together?

It is to laugh, heartily.

What!?! Lies being told about a candidate in an election?

Yes. By a foreign adversary no less.

Yes, the Steele dossier certainly is a bit of a problem, isn't it?

It seems to be part of a big problem for Trump and a diversion for you.

Not really. It does represent lies about a candidate by a foreign adversary, though.

A former British agent is a foreign adversary?

Who knew?

Yeah, Christopher Steele is widely considered a top notch intelligence officer and is highly respected around the world as an honest broker of information. The dossier is a collection of his observations concerning Russia and US officials that led him directly to the Trump campaign. Although no parts of his report have been completely debunked, many items have been shown to be accurate. The constant attack on his work product is a sign of the desperation the Trump team is feeling and just one element of the Intell community under attack in an effort to discredit anyone and any thing that may shine a light on the Russia hacking and subsequent flooding of misinformation on social media. Trump and co. are running scared as hell because Mueller is closing in on the truth of what happened and just who was involved. I just hope that Bolton and Trump don't cook up a needless war to further deflect from the probe. Knowing Bolton's past and his philosophy, it's entirely possible. It wouldn't take much persuading on his part to talk Trump into action since he has said he thinks we should use our Nukes because they're their. This sudden massive military appropriation and stepped up rhetoric is pretty scary stuff.

 

[hadit]

First, Trump congratulating Putin on his election victory is a long standing tradition, something that other presidents have done, so that would lead me to think you're reciting talking points instead of evaluating the whole story.

Second, I talk about Hillary because I'm still delighted she lost her bid for the presidency, AGAIN. It has nothing to do with deflecting from Trump. The fact that democrats don't want to talk about her is not surprising.

The president does not congratulate a sham election, especially just after they poisoned one of their former spies on British soil. But more important than trump congratulating Putin, was that him doing it was leaked, which means the only way to get thru to Trump is to leak his misdeeds to the press. The leaks are a sign of complete disfunction in the whitehouse.

And yes talking about Hillary is a deflection, because she is irrelevant. You have nothing positive to say about Trump, so all your have is Trump's russian-assisted victory.

And we are all very grateful Hillary is irrelevant. She, however, refuses to accept that reality, and since she and her acolytes keep whining about how she was "cheated" (interesting that you couldn't resist that little "russian-assisted" gaff), so we have fun with them. When she realizes it really was her fault and shuts up, and her acolytes on here stop whining about her humiliating loss, you won't see much more about her. Unless, that is, she lands in more trouble.

Its no gaffe, its reality. The amount of anti-hillary propaganda from russia was overwhelming, due to the assistance of right wing sites.
Collusion is more solid than ever, considering that previously Roger Stone claimed to be in contact with Guccifer 2.0 last year, and just now revealed that this hacker was actually a russian agent.

Conservatism has been transformed into authoritarianism; at least the loyal segment of Trump's base. RIP tea party.

She'll probably end up in more trouble. She can't seem to keep her foot out of her mouth. At any rate, she couldn't beat Trump, despite cheating her way through the primaries and with the help of a sycophantic press. Now she's just blaming everyone but herself.

Hillary. Hillary Hillary! But it's us on the left that are obsessed with her loss? LOL

Well, you're still talking about it.

 

[hadit]

What!?! Lies being told about a candidate in an election? What's next, cats and dogs living together?

It is to laugh, heartily.

What!?! Lies being told about a candidate in an election?

Yes. By a foreign adversary no less.

Yes, the Steele dossier certainly is a bit of a problem, isn't it?

It seems to be part of a big problem for Trump and a diversion for you.

Not really. It does represent lies about a candidate by a foreign adversary, though.

A former British agent is a foreign adversary?

Who knew?

From where did he get his "information"?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Yes. By a foreign adversary no less.

Yes, the Steele dossier certainly is a bit of a problem, isn't it?

It seems to be part of a big problem for Trump and a diversion for you.

Not really. It does represent lies about a candidate by a foreign adversary, though.

A former British agent is a foreign adversary?

Who knew?

From where did he get his "information"?

His sources.

 

[dudmuck]

Yes. By a foreign adversary no less.

Yes, the Steele dossier certainly is a bit of a problem, isn't it?

It seems to be part of a big problem for Trump and a diversion for you.

Not really. It does represent lies about a candidate by a foreign adversary, though.

A former British agent is a foreign adversary?

Who knew?

From where did he get his "information"?

From these kinds of russians.
“people literally risked their lives to tell us some of this stuff.”

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Yes, the Steele dossier certainly is a bit of a problem, isn't it?

It seems to be part of a big problem for Trump and a diversion for you.

Not really. It does represent lies about a candidate by a foreign adversary, though.

A former British agent is a foreign adversary?

Who knew?

From where did he get his "information"?

From these kinds of russians.
“people literally risked their lives to tell us some of this stuff.”

Which of course gives it credibility. People would not be in personal danger over a "fake" dossier.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

It seems to be part of a big problem for Trump and a diversion for you.

Not really. It does represent lies about a candidate by a foreign adversary, though.

A former British agent is a foreign adversary?

Who knew?

From where did he get his "information"?

From these kinds of russians.
“people literally risked their lives to tell us some of this stuff.”

Which of course gives it credibility. People would not be in personal danger over a "fake" dossier.

Nobody is in danger.. and frankly, anyone that believes anything from a document that talks about prostitutes peeing on beds is a complete dunce.

 

[Wickerthing]

I just heard that it's been confirmed that Gucifer 2.0 was a spy directly under the control of Putin and that Bannon was forewarned that to do business with him could be a violation of US law. He chose to ignore that warning. Roger Stone was also in that loop. So, that establishes a direct connection between the Trump Campaign and the Kremlin. It's still unclear if Trump himself knew what was going on with Bannon, Stone, Guccifer and Cambridge Analytica. But the way Trump has acted toward Putin, suggests very strongly that he knew. All that's left now is to clearly and undeniably make the Trump Russia connection and not just members of his campaign team. I'm sure Mueller has that answer and more. Well, righties, the Jig appears to be up as far as the campaign/Russia connection. That nothingburger is becoming a very real and very juicy somethingburger. You want fries with that?

 

[Wickerthing]

I think one reason this stuff is being leaked right now is that Mueller is as shaken by the Bolton appointment as the rest of America and he fears that Trump wants to start a war to deflect from his investigation and Mueller is saying to Trump in effect that Don't it wont help you because we already know the vast majority of what you did and it will come out regardless if you start a war or Fire Mueller.

 

[JimH52]

I just heard that it's been confirmed that Gucifer 2.0 was a spy directly under the control of Putin and that Bannon was forewarned that to do business with him could be a violation of US law. He chose to ignore that warning. Roger Stone was also in that loop. So, that establishes a direct connection between the Trump Campaign and the Kremlin. It's still unclear if Trump himself knew what was going on with Bannon, Stone, Guccifer and Cambridge Analytica. But the way Trump has acted toward Putin, suggests very strongly that he knew. All that's left now is to clearly and undeniably make the Trump Russia connection and not just members of his campaign team. I'm sure Mueller has that answer and more. Well, righties, the Jig appears to be up as far as the campaign/Russia connection. That nothingburger is becoming a very real and very juicy somethingburger. You want fries with that?

If this is proven fact, criminal collaboration with a foreign adversary is in play. As I remember, the penalty for Treason is death. Now we are talking! Is this why the Orange Clown has become some unhinged that he is bringing on people to deflect with a war? He is just sleazy enough to send thousands of young boys and girls to die so he would stay in office a little longer.

Please provide a link if available.

 

[Wickerthing]

I just heard that it's been confirmed that Gucifer 2.0 was a spy directly under the control of Putin and that Bannon was forewarned that to do business with him could be a violation of US law. He chose to ignore that warning. Roger Stone was also in that loop. So, that establishes a direct connection between the Trump Campaign and the Kremlin. It's still unclear if Trump himself knew what was going on with Bannon, Stone, Guccifer and Cambridge Analytica. But the way Trump has acted toward Putin, suggests very strongly that he knew. All that's left now is to clearly and undeniably make the Trump Russia connection and not just members of his campaign team. I'm sure Mueller has that answer and more. Well, righties, the Jig appears to be up as far as the campaign/Russia connection. That nothingburger is becoming a very real and very juicy somethingburger. You want fries with that?

If this is proven fact, criminal collaboration with a foreign adversary is in play. As I remember, the penalty for Treason is death. Now we are talking! Is this why the Orange Clown has become some unhinged that he is bringing on people to deflect with a war? He is just sleazy enough to send thousands of young boys and girls to die so he would stay in office a little longer.

Please provide a link if available.

Saw the report on Ari Melber's show. It'll be all over the airwaves tonight except of course on Fox.

 

[GreenBean]

What the F do you think the Junior meeting was about? They were seeking dirt on Hillary. That IS collusion.

Was there information passed during that meeting? Did this begin a system of criminal collaboration?

Mueller will find out. Please don't say there was NO COLLUSION. There clearly was....

Democrats have been pushing the story that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to steal the election from Hillary Clinton. But the evidence keeps piling up indicating that it was Democrats, wittingly or not, who've been helping Russia achieve its real meddling goals.

Consider what's quoted in the indictment as the goals of these Russians:

• The Organization's stated goal was "spread(ing) distrust toward the candidates and the political system in general."
• Specialists were directed to create "politician intensity through supporting radical groups, users dissatisfied with (the) social and economic situation and oppositional social movements."
• The Organization controlled Facebook pages that "addressed a range of issues, including immigration (with group names including "Secured Borders"); the Black Lives Matter movement (with group names including "Blacktivist"); religion (with group names including "United Muslims of America" and "Army of Jesus"); and certain geographic regions.
• In June 2016, the Russians used the Facebook group "United Muslims of America" to promote a rally called "Support Hillary. Save American Muslims."

Although not in the indictment itself, it's already been reported that in May 2016, two Russian-backed groups — "Heart of Texas" and "United Muslims of America" — organized both pro- and anti-Muslim rallies outside an Islamic center in Houston, where the two rallies squared off.

Notice what's missing here? Any mention of electing Trump president. Over and over again, the stated goal of these groups, according to Mueller's indictment, wasn't to get Trump elected, but to set Americans at each other's throats.

Russia Scandal: Mueller's Latest Indictments Point To Democratic Collusion