Trump Trade Agreement A Grand Slam Home Run

[Harpy Eagle]

Because, basically, nothing's changed. Oh, some auto conditions, which may push manufacture of smaller vehicles out of the US, some IP restraints developed by Obama's administration for the TPP, some dairy with Canada, some environmental and labour with Mexico, and not until 2020 or so. Big deal.

Oh, the name, right, fair enough. 'Now it's a brand new deal.' What a doofus.

Ya know... I'd never post something as STUPID as you just did... really.. I mean don't you worry about people knowing how STUPID you are?

He is right, basically nothing changed with the new agreement. A 12.5% rise in parts from North America in cars, 40% of an automobile must be built by people making more than 16 an hour and we get access to 3.5% of the Canadian dairy market, which is less than a half a billion dollars in sales for US dairy farms.

None of the automobile changes are enough to bring jobs back to the US and the dairy concession will not even register on the radar of the economy.

 

[SavannahMann]

Because, basically, nothing's changed. Oh, some auto conditions, which may push manufacture of smaller vehicles out of the US, some IP restraints developed by Obama's administration for the TPP, some dairy with Canada, some environmental and labour with Mexico, and not until 2020 or so. Big deal.

Oh, the name, right, fair enough. 'Now it's a brand new deal.' What a doofus.

Let me get this straight. Trump was an isolationist idiot for even thinking he could negotiate something like this. Now he’s a doofus for actually negotiating it including minimum wages for auto workers of $16 an hour. Right.

That position could be disastrous. It will drive up the prices of automobiles for consumers. Cars that are made in Mexico will either be assembled in another country and shipped here or they will be dropped altogether which could lead to fewer jobs.

I’ve mentioned before, but it bears repeating. I am Liberal by the standards of Georgia, where I live. One of those issues I am Liberal about is exploitation of Second and Third world peoples by International Corporations.

For years I’ve heard from the Left that large corporations are bad because they take advantage of desperate people in second and third world nations. One example I’ve used myself was the effort to thwart the raising of the minimum wage in Haiti. Where corporations including Levi’s took great pains to stop the raising of the minimum wage in Haiti to the outrageous sum of $.83 an hour. Yes, eighty three cents an hour was too much for the labor those people produced. Sure, they couldn’t even afford to buy food for the day off of a days wages, but that is not the problem of Levi’s.

I’ve complained and used the way that ships are broken apart. Driving them into shore on Indonesian beaches where workers use hand tools to cut apart hazardous materials.

Now, I’m supposed to think it is bad for business to pay a decent wage to people. Because somehow this will be the end of the small cheap car. As if Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai, and most of the other brands don’t produce an inexpensive small car with the same concerns. Oh this will be the death of the American Car Companies. Pfui. Nonsense.

This is a perfect example of what I call the lack of Principle. It is common among political partisans. They advocate issues, but if the issue is advanced by the other side, they abandon the issue because beating the other side is more important. I don’t care who advances my issues. It is the issue, the principle that matters more than the political party.

Reducing and eventually eliminating the abuse of and exploitation of people in second or third world nations is a goal worth having. It is not our right to exploit them. It is not our duty, it is our shame. I won’t feel bad because this deal reduces that exploitation.

 

[Toro]

Because, basically, nothing's changed. Oh, some auto conditions, which may push manufacture of smaller vehicles out of the US, some IP restraints developed by Obama's administration for the TPP, some dairy with Canada, some environmental and labour with Mexico, and not until 2020 or so. Big deal.

Oh, the name, right, fair enough. 'Now it's a brand new deal.' What a doofus.

Let me get this straight. Trump was an isolationist idiot for even thinking he could negotiate something like this. Now he’s a doofus for actually negotiating it including minimum wages for auto workers of $16 an hour. Right.

That position could be disastrous. It will drive up the prices of automobiles for consumers. Cars that are made in Mexico will either be assembled in another country and shipped here or they will be dropped altogether which could lead to fewer jobs.

I’ve mentioned before, but it bears repeating. I am Liberal by the standards of Georgia, where I live. One of those issues I am Liberal about is exploitation of Second and Third world peoples by International Corporations.

For years I’ve heard from the Left that large corporations are bad because they take advantage of desperate people in second and third world nations. One example I’ve used myself was the effort to thwart the raising of the minimum wage in Haiti. Where corporations including Levi’s took great pains to stop the raising of the minimum wage in Haiti to the outrageous sum of $.83 an hour. Yes, eighty three cents an hour was too much for the labor those people produced. Sure, they couldn’t even afford to buy food for the day off of a days wages, but that is not the problem of Levi’s.

I’ve complained and used the way that ships are broken apart. Driving them into shore on Indonesian beaches where workers use hand tools to cut apart hazardous materials.

Now, I’m supposed to think it is bad for business to pay a decent wage to people. Because somehow this will be the end of the small cheap car. As if Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai, and most of the other brands don’t produce an inexpensive small car with the same concerns. Oh this will be the death of the American Car Companies. Pfui. Nonsense.

This is a perfect example of what I call the lack of Principle. It is common among political partisans. They advocate issues, but if the issue is advanced by the other side, they abandon the issue because beating the other side is more important. I don’t care who advances my issues. It is the issue, the principle that matters more than the political party.

Reducing and eventually eliminating the abuse of and exploitation of people in second or third world nations is a goal worth having. It is not our right to exploit them. It is not our duty, it is our shame. I won’t feel bad because this deal reduces that exploitation.

Multinational corporations generally pay better and treat their employees better than local companies. There have been several studies that have concluded this.

Liberal do-gooders have worsened the plight of the poor in developing countries by making this argument. The most conspicuous example was of a company that outsourced its production to sub-contractors in Bangladesh ~15 years ago. Liberal activists were up in arms because they were only paying $1an hour, and how dare rich Western companies exploit the poor, blah, blah, blah. Under pressure, the company ended the relationship with the sub-contractor and the plant shut down. A follow-up was done a few years later of what happened to the workers in the plant that the liberal do-gooders said were being exploited. Almost all of them wound up being worse off, some taking lower paying jobs, some going back to subsistence farming, and some of the women in the plant turning to prostitution.

Many liberals don't understand economics. Just like most Trump worshippers.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Because, basically, nothing's changed. Oh, some auto conditions, which may push manufacture of smaller vehicles out of the US, some IP restraints developed by Obama's administration for the TPP, some dairy with Canada, some environmental and labour with Mexico, and not until 2020 or so. Big deal.

Oh, the name, right, fair enough. 'Now it's a brand new deal.' What a doofus.

Let me get this straight. Trump was an isolationist idiot for even thinking he could negotiate something like this. Now he’s a doofus for actually negotiating it including minimum wages for auto workers of $16 an hour. Right.

Only 40% of the car has to be made by workers making at least $16 an hour. It is not all auto workers.

The Art of the Deal was a couple minor tweaks and a new name.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[FJO]

Because, basically, nothing's changed. Oh, some auto conditions, which may push manufacture of smaller vehicles out of the US, some IP restraints developed by Obama's administration for the TPP, some dairy with Canada, some environmental and labour with Mexico, and not until 2020 or so. Big deal.

Oh, the name, right, fair enough. 'Now it's a brand new deal.' What a doofus.

Well he made much bigger inroads with Mexico than he did Canada. That said he knocked out Canada too with this negotiation, especially getting rid of the Class 7 milk label, this is a big deal. It prevented America from sending everything from milk to cheese and many other dairy items.

Our Dairy Farmers are angry, it will cost Trudeau in 2019. He was faced with a choice, make concessions on dairy or lose 200k auto jobs. Worse for Canada, nothing in regards to tariffs is prevented, outside of a 60 day warning for consultation.

IP expanded, digital right protections and a unique stipulation that would punish Canada if they entered into a free trade agreement with "non-market economy nation"...basically China.

Trump also helped out U.S Pharmaceuticals which will cost Canadians more. Increased duty from to $150 from current $20. Ultimately, Trumps team obtained a great deal and literally gave up nothing. All they did was make major threats and bold over reaches, Canada worked to maintain the Status Quo, and considered it a "win". For instance, keeping Chapter 19. Some Canadian resent this, but of course, they don't resent the government covertly entering U.S corporations here or shipping into America cheap Chinese steel and calling it Canadian sources.

There are now controls on how many cars Canada can send into America, this will not impact current numbers, but it could stunt growth in the future in the sector.

All in all, Trumps best move, as I said was to work with Mexico. I think he should have pushed for two bilaterals, but he did so under the guise of USMCA.

Don't underestimate the win here for the U.S, it was absolute. Bet on that.

Call CUSMA.

Easier to pronounce and geographically more logical.

 

[cnm]

I mean don't you worry about people knowing how STUPID you are?

Oh, they're going to find out sooner or later, no big deal.

 

[cnm]

Only 40% of the car has to be made by workers making at least $16 an hour. It is not all auto workers.

An average of $16/hr.

 

[The Purge]

NAFTA Loophole Closed–Can/Mex Agree to U.S. Approval of Future Trade Agreements With Third Parties
The Conservative Treehouse ^

I’m still going through the USMCA text (even speed reading, it will likely take a while); here’s the link to the AGREEMENT DETAILS. However, many people have asked about how the NAFTA loophole was being closed.

Well, the answer is exactly what it had to be – there was really no option. The U.S. now has veto authority over any trade deal made by Canada and/or Mexico with third parties. This is what Ambassador Lighthizer described as the “Third pillar”.

Last year, despite the inevitability of it, we didn’t think Canada and Mexico would agree to it. The NAFTA loophole was/is a zero-sum issue: Either Can/Mex agree to give veto authority to the U.S. –OR– President Trump had no option to exit NAFTA completely.

Well, Canada and Mexico have agreed to the former, so there’s no need for the latter.

Both Canada and Mexico structured key parts of their independent trade agreements to take advantage of their unique access to the U.S. market. Mexico and Canada generate billions in economic activity through exploiting the NAFTA loophole. China, Asia (writ large), and the EU enter into trade agreements with Mexico and Canada as back-doors into the U.S. market. So long as corporations can avoid U.S. tariffs by going through Canada and Mexico they would continue to exploit this approach.

By shipping parts to Mexico and/or Canada; and by deploying satellite manufacturing and assembly facilities in Canada and/or Mexico; China, Asia and to a lesser extent EU corporations exploited a loophole. Through a process of building, assembling or manufacturing their products in Mexico/Canada those foreign corporations can skirt U.S. trade tariffs and direct U.S. trade agreements. The finished foreign products entered the U.S. under NAFTA rules.

Why deal with the U.S. when you can just deal with Mexico, and use NAFTA rules to ship your product directly into the U.S. market?

This exploitative approach, a backdoor to the U.S. market, was the primary reason for massive foreign investment in Canada and Mexico; it was also the primary reason why candidate Donald Trump, now President Donald Trump, wanted to shut down that loophole and renegotiate NAFTA.

This loophole was the primary reason for U.S. manufacturers to relocate operations to Mexico. Corporations within the U.S. Auto-Sector could enhance profits by building in Mexico or Canada using parts imported from Asia/China. The labor factor was not as big a part of the overall cost consideration as cheaper parts and imported raw materials.

If the U.S. applies the same tariffs to Canada and Mexico we apply to all trade nations, then the benefit of using Canada and Mexico -by those trade nations- is lost. Corporations will no longer have any advantage, and many are likely to just deal directly with the U.S. This is the reason for retaining the Steel and Aluminum tariffs on Canada and Mexico.

Take away the market access and the ability for Mexico and Canada to broker themselves for economic benefit, and both nations would lose hundreds of billions in economic activity. It was the NAFTA fatal flaw.

From the POTUS Trump position, NAFTA always came down to two options:

Option #1 – renegotiate the NAFTA trade agreement to eliminate the loopholes. That would require Canada and Mexico to agree to very specific rules put into the agreement by the U.S. that would remove the ability of third-party nations to exploit the current trade loophole. Essentially the U.S. rules would be structured around removing any profit motive with regard to building in Canada or Mexico and shipping into the U.S.

Canada and Mexico would have to agree to those rules; the goal of the rules would be to stop third-party nations from exploiting NAFTA. The problem in this option is the exploitation of NAFTA currently benefits Canada and Mexico. It is against their interests to remove it. Knowing it was against their interests President Trump never thought it was likely Canada or Mexico would ever agree. But he was willing to explore and find out.

Option #2 – Exit NAFTA. And subsequently deal with Canada and Mexico individually with structured trade agreements about their imports. Canada and Mexico could do as they please, but each U.S. bi-lateral trade agreement would be written with language removing the aforementioned cost-benefit-analysis to third-party countries (same as in option #1.)

All nuanced trade-sector issues put aside, the larger issue is always how third-party nations will seek to gain access to the U.S. market through Canada and Mexico. [It is the NAFTA exploitation loophole which has severely damaged the U.S. manufacturing base.]

U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer had been working with Mexican and Canadian officials on different ways to remove this problem. However, in any solution where the one-sided NAFTA benefits are removed, Mexico and Canada lose. Therefore Canada and Mexico had no choice by to approach the negotiations as a zero-sum game.

In the USMCA Canada and Mexico have now accepted OPTION #1 and granted the U.S. approval and veto authority over any trade agreement made with a third party.

Canada and Mexico have taken a knee!

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Only 40% of the car has to be made by workers making at least $16 an hour. It is not all auto workers.

An average of $16/hr.

Thank you for the correction!


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Crepitus]

Mexican and Canadian currency soars as a result of an agreement.

So for the libtarded left, this means Mexico's and Canaduh's purchasing power goes up and our products become cheaper in their country. They can buy more for less and we can sell more there for a profit.

But really any one with a brain knew this in advance and Trump had to drag these idiots kicking and screaming to do what was best for all three of our countries.

Hint, libtardos, Capitalism is forcing Socialism in to doing the smart thing for everyone.

The Mexican peso and the Canadian dollar are ripping higher after the new NAFTA deal

Lol, it's just nafta with a different name.

The other leaders let him change a couple of small things to make him fell feel good, that's all.

To be fair...Canada got the disputes resolution process that they wanted (and the US didn't) and they can ship more vehicles to the US than they could before.
The US got to sell a few more pints of milk to Canadians.

Oh...and they changed the name and font on the agreement.

The dispute resolution process is unchanged, tRump wanted it to change. The changes in autos and dairy are negligible.

 

[cnm]

Thank you for the correction!

It's a devilish little detail...

 

[Brain357]

Because, basically, nothing's changed. Oh, some auto conditions, which may push manufacture of smaller vehicles out of the US, some IP restraints developed by Obama's administration for the TPP, some dairy with Canada, some environmental and labour with Mexico, and not until 2020 or so. Big deal.

Oh, the name, right, fair enough. 'Now it's a brand new deal.' What a doofus.

Ya know... I'd never post something as STUPID as you just did... really.. I mean don't you worry about people knowing how STUPID you are?

He is right, basically nothing changed with the new agreement. A 12.5% rise in parts from North America in cars, 40% of an automobile must be built by people making more than 16 an hour and we get access to 3.5% of the Canadian dairy market, which is less than a half a billion dollars in sales for US dairy farms.

None of the automobile changes are enough to bring jobs back to the US and the dairy concession will not even register on the radar of the economy.

All those great dairy jobs...

 

[cnm]

The U.S. now has veto authority over any trade deal made by Canada and/or Mexico with third parties. This is what Ambassador Lighthizer described as the “Third pillar”.

Care to excerpt the passage in the agreement which provides that authority?

 

[The Purge]

The U.S. now has veto authority over any trade deal made by Canada and/or Mexico with third parties. This is what Ambassador Lighthizer described as the “Third pillar”.

Care to excerpt the passage in the agreement which provides that authority?

Suggest you contact the articles writer, I only report, UNLESS I state it as my personal knowledge!

BUT , I do refer you to....

Canada, Mexico and China Rob the US Economy Through NAFTA Loophole
republicstandard.com
Mar 6, 2018 · The NAFTA agreement negotiations are cordial and conciliatory in ... forcing closed the gap in the legislation that has bankrolled the ...

 

[Brain357]

These changes seem like more regulation rather than free trade.

 

[cnm]

Suggest you contact the articles writer, I only report, UNLESS I state it as my personal knowledge!

You mean you copy and paste stuff you don't understand. Fair enough.
I don't really want to trawl your link to try to make your argument for you. Can you excerpt the bit where it says the US can veto third party agreements?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Mexican and Canadian currency soars as a result of an agreement.

So for the libtarded left, this means Mexico's and Canaduh's purchasing power goes up and our products become cheaper in their country. They can buy more for less and we can sell more there for a profit.

But really any one with a brain knew this in advance and Trump had to drag these idiots kicking and screaming to do what was best for all three of our countries.

Hint, libtardos, Capitalism is forcing Socialism in to doing the smart thing for everyone.

The Mexican peso and the Canadian dollar are ripping higher after the new NAFTA deal

You macroeconomic ignoramus.

The reason the Loonie soared was because the deal was GOOD FOR CANADA.

And the Loonie was MUCH higher against the Canadian dollar in March and January then it is now...before Trump started this trade crap.

XE: CAD / USD Currency Chart. Canadian Dollar to US Dollar Rates


I strongly suggest you stop talking about this stuff...because you seem utterly clueless about it.

Ya, right, idiot. That's why the U.S. stock market soared at the same time and the 10 year Treasury sold off big time.

Lower dollar, we sell more exports, other currencies higher, they have more purchasing power.

We don't call you libtards for no reason.

The US Stock Market--your barometer--went up 149% under the 8 years of Obama with NAFTA and the supposedly strangling regulations of his administration. It is doubful Trump will see 100% doubling much less 149%.

It would if Trump could print money like Obama did (quantitative easing)


.

I thought the economy was booming; shouldn't the deficit be going down...not up if that actually were the case? More income for Americans means more income taxes for the government in our system.

The GOP explained to us that the tax cut would pay for itself with the booming economy. It is basically 5th grade economics. The less revenue we take in, the less the deficit is. Interestingly enough, they actually sold this to the GOP voters.

 

[candycorn]

Because, basically, nothing's changed. Oh, some auto conditions, which may push manufacture of smaller vehicles out of the US, some IP restraints developed by Obama's administration for the TPP, some dairy with Canada, some environmental and labour with Mexico, and not until 2020 or so. Big deal.

Oh, the name, right, fair enough. 'Now it's a brand new deal.' What a doofus.

Let me get this straight. Trump was an isolationist idiot for even thinking he could negotiate something like this. Now he’s a doofus for actually negotiating it including minimum wages for auto workers of $16 an hour. Right.

Only 40% of the car has to be made by workers making at least $16 an hour. It is not all auto workers.

The Art of the Deal was a couple minor tweaks and a new name.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

The tweaks even seem suspect....

If my understanding is correct, Its also not US Auto workers only; meaning that to get out from under the tariffs (eyeroll), Mexican plants can pay employees an average of $16 an hour. I'm sure we'll have watchdogs in their factories watching for violations too...right? I wonder how with the nearly 16% cut in the commerce department?

Or, do you know if the enforcement of this pay requirement is handled by another body?

 

[candycorn]

Well, since Mexico is paying for the wall, it all balances out...right?

 

[oreo]

Mexican and Canadian currency soars as a result of an agreement.

So for the libtarded left, this means Mexico's and Canaduh's purchasing power goes up and our products become cheaper in their country. They can buy more for less and we can sell more there for a profit.

But really any one with a brain knew this in advance and Trump had to drag these idiots kicking and screaming to do what was best for all three of our countries.

Hint, libtardos, Capitalism is forcing Socialism in to doing the smart thing for everyone.

The Mexican peso and the Canadian dollar are ripping higher after the new NAFTA deal

You do realise that this has to get approved by congress--right? So other than changing the name from NAFTA to googglly glop glop (something we would never remember) which is basically what Trump did--it's got a long way to go yet.
Trump can't withdraw from NAFTA without a 'yes' from Congress
History lesson: More Republicans than Democrats supported NAFTA