Trump wants to allow religious institutions to openly advocate political views - tax-exempt

[hadit]

Tax churches like business.

They're not businesses.

Are they not? They seem to be selling something, people seem to pay for it.

No. There is no price tag that you must pay if you want to get something.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

There is nothing wrong with some traditional morals and values and that should not be demonized, but the religious right is destroying the republican party and is going to have more and more negative effects on the party as time goes on, I'm sure.

Your claimed “destruction” and “negative” effects remain hypothetical and, at best, unproven. In the mean time, our society is experiencing obvious and undeniable ills that are quite obviously the result of the disenfranchisement of religious and moral opinions. We've allowed the Godless, the perverts, and the insane to have their say, while denying the voices that would oppose them; and you have to be blind and/or ignorant to not see the destructive and tragic impact that this has had, and continues to have.

MOST people are more moderate and are not religious extremists. While I agree that SOME stuff goes too far, I'm sure you know that I disagree with many of your more extreme views and so do a lot of other people. Would I want someone like you making or having any power to sway lawmakers based on your extremism? NO.

It's better they be swayed with cash, perks, and favors. The reason The Clinton Foundation was created.

poor loony toon.... the Clinton foundation does charitable work

I realize charity isn't something the Donald understands.

dismissed.

So do churches & synagogues.

 

[hadit]

Tax churches like business.

They're not businesses.

Are they not? They seem to be selling something, people seem to pay for it.

Nope.... people donate to maintain the church and pay the pastor. Get a clue.

In the Church I attended as a child, the pastor wasn't paid a salary because he was expected to support himself and his family. He got a stipend to cover some expenses, but that was about it. Definitely NOT something you did to get rich.

 

[SmokeALib]

There is nothing wrong with some traditional morals and values and that should not be demonized, but the religious right is destroying the republican party and is going to have more and more negative effects on the party as time goes on, I'm sure.

Your claimed “destruction” and “negative” effects remain hypothetical and, at best, unproven. In the mean time, our society is experiencing obvious and undeniable ills that are quite obviously the result of the disenfranchisement of religious and moral opinions. We've allowed the Godless, the perverts, and the insane to have their say, while denying the voices that would oppose them; and you have to be blind and/or ignorant to not see the destructive and tragic impact that this has had, and continues to have.

MOST people are more moderate and are not religious extremists. While I agree that SOME stuff goes too far, I'm sure you know that I disagree with many of your more extreme views and so do a lot of other people. Would I want someone like you making or having any power to sway lawmakers based on your extremism? NO.

It's better they be swayed with cash, perks, and favors. The reason The Clinton Foundation was created.

poor loony toon.... the Clinton foundation does charitable work

I realize charity isn't something the Donald understands.

dismissed.

LOL!!!!!

 

[martybegan]

Not really, and because non-profits claim tax immunity, they have to open their books as wide as a 10 lane highway to the IRS to show that no funny business is going on. At that point the IRS says "nuh uh" and away goes your tax exempt status.

The closest real example you can probably find is Scientology, and the IRS dogged their asses for decades, only giving up because the Scientologists evidently had better lawyers, and a TON of money they needed to keep in the hide-y hole. For most people, it wouldn't be worth the effort.

But then isn't there an element of picking and choosing? This is the issue here. Scientology, did they pick and choose whether to give them the exemption? Do they know what's going on? Profit being made? Etc.

There is always some room for "picking and choosing". The Scientology case is unique, due to the combination of powerful people who are adherents, and their overwhelming amount of lawyers they throw at anything that looks at them sideways.

Scientology is an example of an abuse of the system maybe, but it isn't a reason to throw out the system all together.

Of course, and I think you've got a great example there. Problem comes when others want to abuse it too. Why not just not have tax free for anything? Would seem to then get rid of the abuse. Why is religion special?

Why is any non-profit organization special?

Remember people in these organizations still pay income taxes, it's not entirely tax free. I think the main gripe isn't even about corporate taxes, its about property taxes. The problem is most of these Churches/synagouges/mosques sit on prime real estate in old historic buildings. If you taxed them as any other property, they would probably have to be sold just to pay the tax bill.

I don't know why they're special. I guess people feel they're donating money and this shouldn't be taxed. But the reality is that these companies act like businesses nowadays, some of the employees at the higher end are earning millions.

Property tax is an issue, but then again isn't it always?

If you never had to pay it in the past, enforcing it now would basically mean the loss of every religious building in every metropolitan area.

What do you think the property tax on St Patrick's Cathedral would be if they applied normal rules to it?

 

[Lakhota]

But then isn't there an element of picking and choosing? This is the issue here. Scientology, did they pick and choose whether to give them the exemption? Do they know what's going on? Profit being made? Etc.

There is always some room for "picking and choosing". The Scientology case is unique, due to the combination of powerful people who are adherents, and their overwhelming amount of lawyers they throw at anything that looks at them sideways.

Scientology is an example of an abuse of the system maybe, but it isn't a reason to throw out the system all together.

Of course, and I think you've got a great example there. Problem comes when others want to abuse it too. Why not just not have tax free for anything? Would seem to then get rid of the abuse. Why is religion special?

Why is any non-profit organization special?

Remember people in these organizations still pay income taxes, it's not entirely tax free. I think the main gripe isn't even about corporate taxes, its about property taxes. The problem is most of these Churches/synagouges/mosques sit on prime real estate in old historic buildings. If you taxed them as any other property, they would probably have to be sold just to pay the tax bill.

I don't know why they're special. I guess people feel they're donating money and this shouldn't be taxed. But the reality is that these companies act like businesses nowadays, some of the employees at the higher end are earning millions.

Property tax is an issue, but then again isn't it always?

If you never had to pay it in the past, enforcing it now would basically mean the loss of every religious building in every metropolitan area.

What do you think the property tax on St Patrick's Cathedral would be if they applied normal rules to it?

Duh, it would be what it SHOULD be!

 

[Lakhota]

Tax churches like business.

They're not businesses.

Are they not? They seem to be selling something, people seem to pay for it.

Nope.... people donate to maintain the church and pay the pastor. Get a clue.

In the Church I attended as a child, the pastor wasn't paid a salary because he was expected to support himself and his family. He got a stipend to cover some expenses, but that was about it. Definitely NOT something you did to get rich.

Times have changed. There is BIG money in religion these days.

 

[hadit]

There is always some room for "picking and choosing". The Scientology case is unique, due to the combination of powerful people who are adherents, and their overwhelming amount of lawyers they throw at anything that looks at them sideways.

Scientology is an example of an abuse of the system maybe, but it isn't a reason to throw out the system all together.

Of course, and I think you've got a great example there. Problem comes when others want to abuse it too. Why not just not have tax free for anything? Would seem to then get rid of the abuse. Why is religion special?

Why is any non-profit organization special?

Remember people in these organizations still pay income taxes, it's not entirely tax free. I think the main gripe isn't even about corporate taxes, its about property taxes. The problem is most of these Churches/synagouges/mosques sit on prime real estate in old historic buildings. If you taxed them as any other property, they would probably have to be sold just to pay the tax bill.

I don't know why they're special. I guess people feel they're donating money and this shouldn't be taxed. But the reality is that these companies act like businesses nowadays, some of the employees at the higher end are earning millions.

Property tax is an issue, but then again isn't it always?

If you never had to pay it in the past, enforcing it now would basically mean the loss of every religious building in every metropolitan area.

What do you think the property tax on St Patrick's Cathedral would be if they applied normal rules to it?

Duh, it would be what it SHOULD be!

Meh, there's no real barrier to Churches being political any way. Heck, democrats pop up in them regularly, taking donations and making political speeches.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Tax churches like business.

They're not businesses.

Are they not? They seem to be selling something, people seem to pay for it.

Nope.... people donate to maintain the church and pay the pastor. Get a clue.

Yes, I get it. And they're not buying anything? I mean, they're getting something out of the church, right? And then they're paying for the church, right? It's the same as going into a shop and buying something spiritual with the shop saying they don't have a fixed price, they can choose how much they want to give.

No it is not the same. Good grief.

Well, now would be the time to explain why. I mean, we could just go through hours of me saying 'it's the same' and you say 'it's not the same' and I say 'it's the same', but I'm an adult, I don't know about you, but I'd assume so.

 

[hadit]

Tax churches like business.

They're not businesses.

Are they not? They seem to be selling something, people seem to pay for it.

Nope.... people donate to maintain the church and pay the pastor. Get a clue.

In the Church I attended as a child, the pastor wasn't paid a salary because he was expected to support himself and his family. He got a stipend to cover some expenses, but that was about it. Definitely NOT something you did to get rich.

Times have changed. There is BIG money in religion these days.

Not in the denomination I was raised in. They pay pastors now, but not a whole lot, and their salaries are reported in the budget statements so everyone can see how much they make.

 

[Lakhota]

Of course, and I think you've got a great example there. Problem comes when others want to abuse it too. Why not just not have tax free for anything? Would seem to then get rid of the abuse. Why is religion special?

Why is any non-profit organization special?

Remember people in these organizations still pay income taxes, it's not entirely tax free. I think the main gripe isn't even about corporate taxes, its about property taxes. The problem is most of these Churches/synagouges/mosques sit on prime real estate in old historic buildings. If you taxed them as any other property, they would probably have to be sold just to pay the tax bill.

I don't know why they're special. I guess people feel they're donating money and this shouldn't be taxed. But the reality is that these companies act like businesses nowadays, some of the employees at the higher end are earning millions.

Property tax is an issue, but then again isn't it always?

If you never had to pay it in the past, enforcing it now would basically mean the loss of every religious building in every metropolitan area.

What do you think the property tax on St Patrick's Cathedral would be if they applied normal rules to it?

Duh, it would be what it SHOULD be!

Meh, there's no real barrier to Churches being political any way. Heck, democrats pop up in them regularly, taking donations and making political speeches.

Well, tax them all like business and put an end to their tax-exempt status.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Tax churches like business.

They're not businesses.

Are they not? They seem to be selling something, people seem to pay for it.

No. There is no price tag that you must pay if you want to get something.

There's a price tag for religious enlightenment/belief/whatever else you want to call it.

Every religious place I've seen charges money for things, even if they don't come out and say it's a charge. They make you want to "donate" every week passing around some plate or other, or having boxes to slot your money in, or however they do it. They make money.

Ever seen European Catholic Cathedrals, you don't make stuff like that and keep it without raking in the money.

 

[hadit]

They're not businesses.

Are they not? They seem to be selling something, people seem to pay for it.

Nope.... people donate to maintain the church and pay the pastor. Get a clue.

Yes, I get it. And they're not buying anything? I mean, they're getting something out of the church, right? And then they're paying for the church, right? It's the same as going into a shop and buying something spiritual with the shop saying they don't have a fixed price, they can choose how much they want to give.

No it is not the same. Good grief.

Well, now would be the time to explain why. I mean, we could just go through hours of me saying 'it's the same' and you say 'it's not the same' and I say 'it's the same', but I'm an adult, I don't know about you, but I'd assume so.

The difference is the Church is offering something it did not make, did not buy and for which it does not offer exclusive access.

 

[hadit]

Why is any non-profit organization special?

Remember people in these organizations still pay income taxes, it's not entirely tax free. I think the main gripe isn't even about corporate taxes, its about property taxes. The problem is most of these Churches/synagouges/mosques sit on prime real estate in old historic buildings. If you taxed them as any other property, they would probably have to be sold just to pay the tax bill.

I don't know why they're special. I guess people feel they're donating money and this shouldn't be taxed. But the reality is that these companies act like businesses nowadays, some of the employees at the higher end are earning millions.

Property tax is an issue, but then again isn't it always?

If you never had to pay it in the past, enforcing it now would basically mean the loss of every religious building in every metropolitan area.

What do you think the property tax on St Patrick's Cathedral would be if they applied normal rules to it?

Duh, it would be what it SHOULD be!

Meh, there's no real barrier to Churches being political any way. Heck, democrats pop up in them regularly, taking donations and making political speeches.

Well, tax them all like business and put an end to their tax-exempt status.

In which case, all of a sudden you would be furious that so many trusted pastors with strong influence over such large numbers of people are rousing them to go vote in ways you don't like. The very next demand from you would be to shut them up.

 

[Avatar4321]

You are upset that he would allow the first amendment to protect citizens? Why?

I'm not sure I believe it with trump but this would be the first thing that could make me consider him

 

[martybegan]

There is always some room for "picking and choosing". The Scientology case is unique, due to the combination of powerful people who are adherents, and their overwhelming amount of lawyers they throw at anything that looks at them sideways.

Scientology is an example of an abuse of the system maybe, but it isn't a reason to throw out the system all together.

Of course, and I think you've got a great example there. Problem comes when others want to abuse it too. Why not just not have tax free for anything? Would seem to then get rid of the abuse. Why is religion special?

Why is any non-profit organization special?

Remember people in these organizations still pay income taxes, it's not entirely tax free. I think the main gripe isn't even about corporate taxes, its about property taxes. The problem is most of these Churches/synagouges/mosques sit on prime real estate in old historic buildings. If you taxed them as any other property, they would probably have to be sold just to pay the tax bill.

I don't know why they're special. I guess people feel they're donating money and this shouldn't be taxed. But the reality is that these companies act like businesses nowadays, some of the employees at the higher end are earning millions.

Property tax is an issue, but then again isn't it always?

If you never had to pay it in the past, enforcing it now would basically mean the loss of every religious building in every metropolitan area.

What do you think the property tax on St Patrick's Cathedral would be if they applied normal rules to it?

Duh, it would be what it SHOULD be!

Why?

 

[hadit]

Tax churches like business.

They're not businesses.

Are they not? They seem to be selling something, people seem to pay for it.

No. There is no price tag that you must pay if you want to get something.

There's a price tag for religious enlightenment/belief/whatever else you want to call it.

Every religious place I've seen charges money for things, even if they don't come out and say it's a charge. They make you want to "donate" every week passing around some plate or other, or having boxes to slot your money in, or however they do it. They make money.

Ever seen European Catholic Cathedrals, you don't make stuff like that and keep it without raking in the money.

That's why it's called a donation. You don't have to pay anything, and in fact, most people don't. As for European Catholic cathedrals, you do know, don't you, that the European Catholic Church WAS the government in many cases and could utilize tax money?

 

[Vigilante]

Why does this scare you Squaw Pussy?

 

[jc456]

Tax churches like business.

They're not businesses.

Are they not? They seem to be selling something, people seem to pay for it.

Nope.... people donate to maintain the church and pay the pastor. Get a clue.

it also goes to help them serve the poor and needy families.

 

[Tom Horn]

An amendment, pushed by Lyndon Johnson, many years ago, threatens religious institutions with a loss of their tax-exempt status if they openly advocate their political views.

I am going to work very hard to repeal that language and protect free speech for all Americans.

Read The Draft Text Of Donald Trump's 2016 Republican National Convention Speech

So much for the separation of church and state.

Except the BLACK churches have been ignoring that law since it was passed. They openly advocate for the Rat party, organize registration drives, and voter turnout. It's about time the white churches and synagogues answered in kind.