Trump's pyrrhic victory: The US opts for path that can only lead to war

[pismoe]

except the people who live there - well they love it that trump has done this but you won't hear that in US media on either side really.

i can dig up links or just google and find some of your own. saudis were thrilled about it. other countries were thanking god. while europe russia and china are "not happy" - they don't live there. all the people who live there aside from iran and their friends, are happy about it.

so "should" would seem to be which direction you want to go. do we pretend that iran isn't making a bomb or trying to or do we admit they are and do something about it? why people seem to think iran has zero intentions to create a bomb that will "kill the infidels" is beyond me at times, but i'll keep talking to try and understand.

if the "treaty" had zero way to enforce, we shouldn't have done it. i felt the same way about the global warming "treaty" that had no teeth and all $$$ from the US.

I truly don't see any evidence that Iran is still building their nuclear weapons. The inspectors can't find it. If Israel knew where every Iranian installation in Syria was, and if the US knew where all the chemical weapons sites in Syria were, do you really think we wouldn't know if Iran was building a nuclear weapon? We know where NoKo was building theirs. Are we that stupid? The stuff Netanyahu said about Iran lying was from over a decade ago, prior to the JCPOA.
I don't pretend to know a whole lot about it, so if you've got a reputable source showing that Iran is in actuality continuing its nuclear weapon program, like with evidence or specifics at least, please link.

I truly don't see any evidence that Iran is still building their nuclear weapons. The inspectors can't find it.

Inspectors? What inspectors? Where?

The stuff Netanyahu said about Iran lying was from over a decade ago, prior to the JCPOA.

Wait, Iran lied? About nuclear facilities? Then how can you trust them now?

Because of the inspectors.

We're not sending inspectors, who is?

The IEAE. Verification and Monitoring in Iran | IAEA

------------------------------------------- only naive dummies put their trust in organizations like the 'iaea' , 'un' and other international orgs imo OldLady !!

 

[candycorn]

Naw , it'll be big gaggle of YOU government employees , all taxpayer paid to do the work of War at the Command of the CiC Candy !!

C'mon, grow some balls and enlist if you're that passionate about it. Bring your sons and daughters, nieces and nephews, grandsons and granddaughters too if you have any. Would be fun (and somewhat unique) to see war hawks actually fight in a war.

 

[OldLady]

I truly don't see any evidence that Iran is still building their nuclear weapons. The inspectors can't find it. If Israel knew where every Iranian installation in Syria was, and if the US knew where all the chemical weapons sites in Syria were, do you really think we wouldn't know if Iran was building a nuclear weapon? We know where NoKo was building theirs. Are we that stupid? The stuff Netanyahu said about Iran lying was from over a decade ago, prior to the JCPOA.
I don't pretend to know a whole lot about it, so if you've got a reputable source showing that Iran is in actuality continuing its nuclear weapon program, like with evidence or specifics at least, please link.

I truly don't see any evidence that Iran is still building their nuclear weapons. The inspectors can't find it.

Inspectors? What inspectors? Where?

The stuff Netanyahu said about Iran lying was from over a decade ago, prior to the JCPOA.

Wait, Iran lied? About nuclear facilities? Then how can you trust them now?

Because of the inspectors.

We're not sending inspectors, who is?

The IEAE. Verification and Monitoring in Iran | IAEA

Was it okay that military installations are off limits to inspectors?

I don't know a lot about enriching uranium or building nuclear warheads, but is that something you can really do on a military base? I'm asking. We know a lot of stuff we keep under our hats, as I'm sure you know. Although it is completely illegal, we knew where Assad's chemical weapons were and we know where KJU's nuclear weapons are. Do you really think if there were nuclear weapons facilities in Iran that we wouldn't know?
I'm not buying it.

 

[OldLady]

That’s an interesting read but I did find it odd that the source of much of its information came from a evangelical baptist Christian (Wagner). Wouldn’t you find an explaination from an actual Muslim, perhaps both a Shiite and a Sunni, to be a little more interesting and accurate when trying to explain their own point of views and interpretations?

The 12th Imam seems to be a similar story as the 2nd coming of Jesus which is a popular Christian belief.

------------------------------------ and as well as my explanation in post number 194 you will find that muslims are big practitioners of a muslim and 'mohamad' approved form of lying called 'taqiyah' where they will happily lie as a way of furthering 'islams' goal of making the world a 'house of peace' for and under 'mohamad' rule Slade .

Have you ever had a personal relationship with a Muslim? Friend, coworker, roommate etc? Have you ever spent time in a Muslim country, been to a mosque, and tried to learn about their culture/religion first hand? Or is your information based on what you hear and read?

In other words you don't know ANYTHING about true Islam.

Unless you are a Muslim, neither do you.

--------------------------------------- all that can be done is study of muslim history , laws , traditions plus actually seeing what muslims actually do in the here and now . It is simply the gathering of knowledge in the great Western tradition of learning Old Lady .

Yet if Doc had actually done all that, he would not be misrepresenting the religion the way he is.

 

[candycorn]

I truly don't see any evidence that Iran is still building their nuclear weapons. The inspectors can't find it. If Israel knew where every Iranian installation in Syria was, and if the US knew where all the chemical weapons sites in Syria were, do you really think we wouldn't know if Iran was building a nuclear weapon? We know where NoKo was building theirs. Are we that stupid? The stuff Netanyahu said about Iran lying was from over a decade ago, prior to the JCPOA.
I don't pretend to know a whole lot about it, so if you've got a reputable source showing that Iran is in actuality continuing its nuclear weapon program, like with evidence or specifics at least, please link.

I truly don't see any evidence that Iran is still building their nuclear weapons. The inspectors can't find it.

Inspectors? What inspectors? Where?

The stuff Netanyahu said about Iran lying was from over a decade ago, prior to the JCPOA.

Wait, Iran lied? About nuclear facilities? Then how can you trust them now?

Because of the inspectors.

We're not sending inspectors, who is?

The IEAE. Verification and Monitoring in Iran | IAEA

------------------------------------------- only naive dummies put their trust in organizations like the 'iaea' , 'un' and other international orgs imo OldLady !!

Echoes from Iraq all over again. Hanz Blix from the UN told us there were no WMDs in Iraq....and he was right.
15 years later and 6,000 deaths of our best and brightest, he remains right and one (or one hundred) of the new orphans we created in Iraq are probably scheduling us for retribution as we speak.

Oh, I know, a "muslim ban" will keep em out right?

 

[pismoe]

Naw , it'll be big gaggle of YOU government employees , all taxpayer paid to do the work of War at the Command of the CiC Candy !!

C'mon, grow some balls and enlist if you're that passionate about it. Bring your sons and daughters, nieces and nephews, grandsons and granddaughters too if you have any. Would be fun (and somewhat unique) to see war hawks actually fight in a war.

-------------------------------------- YOU Gov employees work for us Candy . We American taxpayers pay you Gov employees to do what the CiC requires of YOU so you might want to prepare Candy !!

 

[candycorn]

------------------------------------ and as well as my explanation in post number 194 you will find that muslims are big practitioners of a muslim and 'mohamad' approved form of lying called 'taqiyah' where they will happily lie as a way of furthering 'islams' goal of making the world a 'house of peace' for and under 'mohamad' rule Slade .

Have you ever had a personal relationship with a Muslim? Friend, coworker, roommate etc? Have you ever spent time in a Muslim country, been to a mosque, and tried to learn about their culture/religion first hand? Or is your information based on what you hear and read?

In other words you don't know ANYTHING about true Islam.

Unless you are a Muslim, neither do you.

--------------------------------------- all that can be done is study of muslim history , laws , traditions plus actually seeing what muslims actually do in the here and now . It is simply the gathering of knowledge in the great Western tradition of learning Old Lady .

Yet if Doc had actually done all that, he would not be misrepresenting the religion the way he is.

What are there, something like a billion muslims in the world and he bases the actions of them on what about 2 or 3 dozen have done?

Gee, if you go by that, look at our federal and state prisons; full of protestants and Catholics... Does he apply the same calculus to their actions?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

I truly don't see any evidence that Iran is still building their nuclear weapons. The inspectors can't find it.

Inspectors? What inspectors? Where?

The stuff Netanyahu said about Iran lying was from over a decade ago, prior to the JCPOA.

Wait, Iran lied? About nuclear facilities? Then how can you trust them now?

Because of the inspectors.

We're not sending inspectors, who is?

The IEAE. Verification and Monitoring in Iran | IAEA

Was it okay that military installations are off limits to inspectors?

I don't know a lot about enriching uranium or building nuclear warheads, but is that something you can really do on a military base? I'm asking. We know a lot of stuff we keep under our hats, as I'm sure you know. Although it is completely illegal, we knew where Assad's chemical weapons were and we know where KJU's nuclear weapons are. Do you really think if there were nuclear weapons facilities in Iran that we wouldn't know?
I'm not buying it.

You can do it with an enrichment facility built on a military base, yes.

 

[pismoe]

------------------------------------ and as well as my explanation in post number 194 you will find that muslims are big practitioners of a muslim and 'mohamad' approved form of lying called 'taqiyah' where they will happily lie as a way of furthering 'islams' goal of making the world a 'house of peace' for and under 'mohamad' rule Slade .

Have you ever had a personal relationship with a Muslim? Friend, coworker, roommate etc? Have you ever spent time in a Muslim country, been to a mosque, and tried to learn about their culture/religion first hand? Or is your information based on what you hear and read?

In other words you don't know ANYTHING about true Islam.

Unless you are a Muslim, neither do you.

--------------------------------------- all that can be done is study of muslim history , laws , traditions plus actually seeing what muslims actually do in the here and now . It is simply the gathering of knowledge in the great Western tradition of learning Old Lady .

Yet if Doc had actually done all that, he would not be misrepresenting the religion the way he is.

---------------------------------------- the bit of Doc's stuff and info that i have read , well Doc is correct in his views and info about 'islam' that i have read OldLady .

 

[pismoe]

Naw , it'll be big gaggle of YOU government employees , all taxpayer paid to do the work of War at the Command of the CiC Candy !!

C'mon, grow some balls and enlist if you're that passionate about it. Bring your sons and daughters, nieces and nephews, grandsons and granddaughters too if you have any. Would be fun (and somewhat unique) to see war hawks actually fight in a war.

-------------------------------------- YOU Gov employees work for us Candy . We American taxpayers pay you Gov employees to do what the CiC requires of YOU so you might want to prepare Candy !!

I doubt anyone has ever done anything you've told them to do much less "worked" for you.

Glad to see the yellow streak on your back is in no danger of disappearing.

------------------------------- not me , its my President TRUMP , the CiC that will be giving YOU gov employees your marching orders Candy .

 

[OldLady]

Have you ever had a personal relationship with a Muslim? Friend, coworker, roommate etc? Have you ever spent time in a Muslim country, been to a mosque, and tried to learn about their culture/religion first hand? Or is your information based on what you hear and read?

In other words you don't know ANYTHING about true Islam.

Unless you are a Muslim, neither do you.

--------------------------------------- all that can be done is study of muslim history , laws , traditions plus actually seeing what muslims actually do in the here and now . It is simply the gathering of knowledge in the great Western tradition of learning Old Lady .

Yet if Doc had actually done all that, he would not be misrepresenting the religion the way he is.

What are there, something like a billion muslims in the world and he bases the actions of them on what about 2 or 3 dozen have done?

Gee, if you go by that, look at our federal and state prisons; full of protestants and Catholics... Does he apply the same calculus to their actions?

Well, to be fair, there are a whole lot more and two or three dozen Muslims who are jihadi extremists. But they are still a very small fraction of a percent of Muslims. People refuse to understand that one man's jihadi is another man's freedom fighter and that we have people screaming to set fire to all Muslims or all Iranians, same as Iranians have people screaming to destroy the US. This morning on the news, it was all about leaders warning and threatening each other, and I'm just waiting for all the air to finish blowing out of the balloon and see what we're left with.

It isn't the Muslim religion which is to blame. When we had the Crusades, it was a fight for territory between two giant powers, one which happened to be Christian, and one Muslim. Interestingly, they both wanted Jerusalem (sound familiar at all?) but please don't tell me it was all because the Pope wanted back the site of Jesus's crucifixion. The Muslims won because it was their home turf. No doubt they will again, but I'm hoping we can skip the Crusades part.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

In other words you don't know ANYTHING about true Islam.

Unless you are a Muslim, neither do you.

--------------------------------------- all that can be done is study of muslim history , laws , traditions plus actually seeing what muslims actually do in the here and now . It is simply the gathering of knowledge in the great Western tradition of learning Old Lady .

Yet if Doc had actually done all that, he would not be misrepresenting the religion the way he is.

What are there, something like a billion muslims in the world and he bases the actions of them on what about 2 or 3 dozen have done?

Gee, if you go by that, look at our federal and state prisons; full of protestants and Catholics... Does he apply the same calculus to their actions?

Well, to be fair, there are a whole lot more and two or three dozen Muslims who are jihadi extremists. But they are still a very small fraction of a percent of Muslims. People refuse to understand that one man's jihadi is another man's freedom fighter and that we have people screaming to set fire to all Muslims or all Iranians, same as Iranians have people screaming to destroy the US. This morning on the news, it was all about leaders warning and threatening each other, and I'm just waiting for all the air to finish blowing out of the balloon and see what we're left with.

It isn't the Muslim religion which is to blame. When we had the Crusades, it was a fight for territory between two giant powers, one which happened to be Christian, and one Muslim. Interestingly, they both wanted Jerusalem (sound familiar at all?) but please don't tell me it was all because the Pope wanted back the site of Jesus's crucifixion. The Muslims won because it was their home turf. No doubt they will again, but I'm hoping we can skip the Crusades part.

Your ignorance of history is astounding.

 

[candycorn]

In other words you don't know ANYTHING about true Islam.

Unless you are a Muslim, neither do you.

--------------------------------------- all that can be done is study of muslim history , laws , traditions plus actually seeing what muslims actually do in the here and now . It is simply the gathering of knowledge in the great Western tradition of learning Old Lady .

Yet if Doc had actually done all that, he would not be misrepresenting the religion the way he is.

What are there, something like a billion muslims in the world and he bases the actions of them on what about 2 or 3 dozen have done?

Gee, if you go by that, look at our federal and state prisons; full of protestants and Catholics... Does he apply the same calculus to their actions?

Well, to be fair, there are a whole lot more and two or three dozen Muslims who are jihadi extremists. But they are still a very small fraction of a percent of Muslims.

That is what I meant.

If you look at our prisons and simply choose to apply the actions of the relative few to their religions at large, you'd have a different opinion of that religion.

For some reason, only Muslims seem to be tied to their religion when they commit crimes. And the ironic thing is that nothing could be further from modern religious teaching than the actions of killing someone.

 

[OldLady]

Unless you are a Muslim, neither do you.

--------------------------------------- all that can be done is study of muslim history , laws , traditions plus actually seeing what muslims actually do in the here and now . It is simply the gathering of knowledge in the great Western tradition of learning Old Lady .

Yet if Doc had actually done all that, he would not be misrepresenting the religion the way he is.

What are there, something like a billion muslims in the world and he bases the actions of them on what about 2 or 3 dozen have done?

Gee, if you go by that, look at our federal and state prisons; full of protestants and Catholics... Does he apply the same calculus to their actions?

Well, to be fair, there are a whole lot more and two or three dozen Muslims who are jihadi extremists. But they are still a very small fraction of a percent of Muslims. People refuse to understand that one man's jihadi is another man's freedom fighter and that we have people screaming to set fire to all Muslims or all Iranians, same as Iranians have people screaming to destroy the US. This morning on the news, it was all about leaders warning and threatening each other, and I'm just waiting for all the air to finish blowing out of the balloon and see what we're left with.

It isn't the Muslim religion which is to blame. When we had the Crusades, it was a fight for territory between two giant powers, one which happened to be Christian, and one Muslim. Interestingly, they both wanted Jerusalem (sound familiar at all?) but please don't tell me it was all because the Pope wanted back the site of Jesus's crucifixion. The Muslims won because it was their home turf. No doubt they will again, but I'm hoping we can skip the Crusades part.

Your ignorance of history is astounding.

Thanks. I'd ask what you think is so off, but I definitely do not want to refight the Crusades this morning.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Because the GOP Congress wasn't approving ANYTHING Obama put on the table. Including this if he had tried it.

Humm, really? Gee, then who passed the bills that Obama signed from 2010 through 2016?

Given the fact that the Iran nuke deal was clearly an arms control treaty, it is outrageous and obscene that Obama refused to allow the Senate to vote on it as such.

 

[candycorn]

Because the GOP Congress wasn't approving ANYTHING Obama put on the table. Including this if he had tried it.

Humm, really? Gee, then who passed the bills that Obama signed from 2010 through 2016?

Given the fact that the Iran nuke deal was clearly an arms control treaty, it is outrageous and obscene that Obama refused to allow the Senate to vote on it as such.

Which pieces of major legislation was passed from 10-16?

 

[Doc1]

Tell me what you know about 12'ver Shia.

I don’t know anything about it. Please do explain

'12th Imam,' Key Facet Of Islamic Prophecy, Fuels Middle East Turmoil


.

That’s an interesting read but I did find it odd that the source of much of its information came from a evangelical baptist Christian (Wagner). Wouldn’t you find an explaination from an actual Muslim, perhaps both a Shiite and a Sunni, to be a little more interesting and accurate when trying to explain their own point of views and interpretations?

The 12th Imam seems to be a similar story as the 2nd coming of Jesus which is a popular Christian belief.

The Imam returns in a time of Global chaos. 12vers believe that THEY can speed his return by causing that chaos. This is why Iran has no fear at all of using whatever weapons they have. They believe that in starting that WW the Mahdi will return.

What makes you think that is their belief? Did you read about it or did you learn that from Muslims first hand? I’d love to see your sources

My degree is in Comparative Religions, I don't care what you do, or don't believe. Yes I have Muslim friends, yes I've been Muslim Nations and yes I've been to Israel. Your ignorance is your concern, not mine.

 

[Doc1]

'12th Imam,' Key Facet Of Islamic Prophecy, Fuels Middle East Turmoil


.

That’s an interesting read but I did find it odd that the source of much of its information came from a evangelical baptist Christian (Wagner). Wouldn’t you find an explaination from an actual Muslim, perhaps both a Shiite and a Sunni, to be a little more interesting and accurate when trying to explain their own point of views and interpretations?

The 12th Imam seems to be a similar story as the 2nd coming of Jesus which is a popular Christian belief.

------------------------------------ and as well as my explanation in post number 194 you will find that muslims are big practitioners of a muslim and 'mohamad' approved form of lying called 'taqiyah' where they will happily lie as a way of furthering 'islams' goal of making the world a 'house of peace' for and under 'mohamad' rule Slade .

Have you ever had a personal relationship with a Muslim? Friend, coworker, roommate etc? Have you ever spent time in a Muslim country, been to a mosque, and tried to learn about their culture/religion first hand? Or is your information based on what you hear and read?

In other words you don't know ANYTHING about true Islam.

How do you take a series of questions that I’ve asked and regurgitate it to bring a statement about what I do or don’t know? Grow up

What? You don't like being called out? Tough shit. My point stands you don't know ANYTHING about True Islam.

 

[Slade3200]

How wide spread is this belief?

---------------------------------------------------------------- If you are asking about 12ers , i think that iranians are 'shiite' which i think are the VAST majority of irans population . And of those 'shiites' i think that the vast majority of iranian 'shiites' are 12ers . And if i am correct its iran that is YOUR biggest worry and enemy because they support terror , want to destroy the big and little 'satans' known as Israel and the USA and are working towards building deliverable nukes that your 'mrobama' helped fund Slade .

Do you think they want to drop a nuke on Isreal?

They will if they can. They'd do it to the Saudi's, they'd do it to Israel and if they could they'd do it to us.

Again I’ll ask, how do you know any of this shit?! Where are you getting your information from?

---------------------------------- what the feck , can't you google or read even if its only yhe news Slade . I think you have no interest . For example , there is lots of info on 'ahmadinegad' a leading 12er who headed 'iran' as a government leader . Read about 'islam' , read muslim history and how and when 'islam' was invented by 'loon mohamad' in the Arabian desert . Check out the CIA fact book for info on 'iran' , its religion and its 'shiite muslims and 12ers . i get my info from reading plus internet and talking to people . Hey , don't believe any of it , its ok with me . Actually i hope that the truth of 'islam' eventually surprise's you the same way that the Germans and Belgians , Brits , French and other 'dhimmis' are being surprised Slade .

The reason I ask these questions it to try and understand other people’s viewpoints. The reason why I ask where they get their information is so I can see if they have first hand experience or if they are going off third hand interpretations, which are often bias and also reviewable. If your understanding is Islam is based of what you read and who you talk to then it is important to look at the articles you are reading, for example the one posted here was writen and sourced by an evangelical Christian. If you are talking to Christians to get your information on Islam then you are likely going to get a scewed perspective. If you are talking to Americans about Iran then you also are likely getting an incomplete story. Especially for the Islam discussion I’d recommend engaging with more Muslims if you are really interested in gaining a better understanding of the religion.

 

[Doc1]

How wide spread is this belief?

---------------------------------------------------------------- If you are asking about 12ers , i think that iranians are 'shiite' which i think are the VAST majority of irans population . And of those 'shiites' i think that the vast majority of iranian 'shiites' are 12ers . And if i am correct its iran that is YOUR biggest worry and enemy because they support terror , want to destroy the big and little 'satans' known as Israel and the USA and are working towards building deliverable nukes that your 'mrobama' helped fund Slade .

Do you think they want to drop a nuke on Isreal?

They will if they can. They'd do it to the Saudi's, they'd do it to Israel and if they could they'd do it to us.

Again I’ll ask, how do you know any of this shit?! Where are you getting your information from?

---------------------------------- what the feck , can't you google or read even if its only yhe news Slade . I think you have no interest . For example , there is lots of info on 'ahmadinegad' a leading 12er who headed 'iran' as a government leader . Read about 'islam' , read muslim history and how and when 'islam' was invented by 'loon mohamad' in the Arabian desert . Check out the CIA fact book for info on 'iran' , its religion and its 'shiite muslims and 12ers . i get my info from reading plus internet and talking to people . Hey , don't believe any of it , its ok with me . Actually i hope that the truth of 'islam' eventually surprise's you the same way that the Germans and Belgians , Brits , French and other 'dhimmis' are being surprised Slade .

He simply cannot stand to admit his ignorance. It doesn't matter what "source" you post, it doesn't mater where you learned what you know, like a child he'll just say "Nuh-Uh". He's nothing but contrarian. True Islam demands world Islamic domination. Period.