Turns Out There Is A "Deep State"

[Remodeling Maidiac]

There is that aroma of irony around the topic: the same folks who rant that there is no God, are the very same ranting that there is no 'Deep State'.....while big government and its Deep State IS their god!


1." I know opponents of President Donald Trump roll their eyes in ridicule at the mere suggestion of a deep state committed to undermining Trump's agenda. That's the stuff of paranoid conspiracy theorists or unhinged Trumpublican tribalists, they say.

2. Well, James O'Keefe, and his Project Veritas, has shown, again, that there is a "there" there.

3. ...unelected leftist bureaucrats embedded in the bowels of the federal government have been lawlessly targeting conservatives and abusing their power to thwart the agenda of duly elected Republican policymakers. The proof keeps pouring in.




4. The Obama administration's IRS deliberately discriminated against conservative groups in their applications for tax-exempt status. This isn't an empty partisan allegation from an imaginary "right-wing conspiracy." In 2013, an IRS official admitted scrutinizing groups with right wing identifying names, such as "Tea Party" and "patriots." An inspector general's report that year confirmed this nefarious practice.

5. At least two groups of cases were settled in 2017 with the IRS agreeing to a "substantial financial settlement" in one and expressing "its sincere apology" in another. This is the kind of tyrannical behavior that liberals used to care about.

6. In a case involving the Linchpins of Liberty and some 40 other conservative organizations, the IRS confessed that it used "heighted scrutiny and inordinate delays" and required unnecessary information in its review of applications for tax-exemptions.

7. In the NorCal Tea Party Patriots case, involving more than 400 groups, plaintiffs contended the IRS used their tax information for improper purposes.



8. ...James O'Keefe, and his Project Veritas, ....recently released secret videotapes in which some of these boorish bureaucrats brazenly admit their chicanery, and even brag about it.

9. On Tuesday, Project Veritas released the first of its tapes unmasking these proud pinheads boasting of sabotaging the Trump agenda. The video features State Department employee Stuart Karaffa, a smarmy, self-proclaimed socialist using his government position to resist official Trump administration policies. Karaffa is a member of the Metro DC Democratic Socialists of America...

10. He admits to drafting DSA communications at his worksite. "I'm careful about it," says Karaffa. "I don't leave a paper trail, like I leave emails, and like any press s--- that comes up, I leave that until after 5:30. But as soon as 5:31 hits, got my like draft messages ready to send out." Precious."
Project Veritas Catches Deep State Redhanded

There is no God. There is a corrupt faction within the government however. Call it whatever you like.

Keep your fairy tales about God in the religion forum please.

This nation was founded on a belief in God.

For a reminder:

There are four references to ‘Divine’ in the Declaration of Independence:

1) in first paragraph ‘Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,’

2) next paragraph ‘endowed by their Creator,”

3) Supreme Judge of the world, and

4) ‘divine’ Providence, last paragraph.

This is important because our historic documents memorialize a government based on individuals born with inalienable rights, by, in various references, by the Divine, or Nature’s God, or their Creator, or the Supreme Judge, or divine Providence.



Perhaps you have some other nation in mind......

I understand the historical importance of God.
Problem is now we posess the intelligence and knowledge to identify the things that made primitive man believe the asteroid he understood to be a wrathful God was actually JUST AN ASTEROID.
Or
That the great flood was not God punishing man but a byproduct of a yet another catastrophic impact that melted the iceshelfs.

Oddly enough we have evidence that the Sumarians knew the real deal about deep space thousands of years before average man ever figured it out.

I dont begrudge anyone who chooses to live by the bible, but I don't have to play stupid because of the beliefs of others.

 

[PoliticalChic]

There is that aroma of irony around the topic: the same folks who rant that there is no God, are the very same ranting that there is no 'Deep State'.....while big government and its Deep State IS their god!


1." I know opponents of President Donald Trump roll their eyes in ridicule at the mere suggestion of a deep state committed to undermining Trump's agenda. That's the stuff of paranoid conspiracy theorists or unhinged Trumpublican tribalists, they say.

2. Well, James O'Keefe, and his Project Veritas, has shown, again, that there is a "there" there.

3. ...unelected leftist bureaucrats embedded in the bowels of the federal government have been lawlessly targeting conservatives and abusing their power to thwart the agenda of duly elected Republican policymakers. The proof keeps pouring in.




4. The Obama administration's IRS deliberately discriminated against conservative groups in their applications for tax-exempt status. This isn't an empty partisan allegation from an imaginary "right-wing conspiracy." In 2013, an IRS official admitted scrutinizing groups with right wing identifying names, such as "Tea Party" and "patriots." An inspector general's report that year confirmed this nefarious practice.

5. At least two groups of cases were settled in 2017 with the IRS agreeing to a "substantial financial settlement" in one and expressing "its sincere apology" in another. This is the kind of tyrannical behavior that liberals used to care about.

6. In a case involving the Linchpins of Liberty and some 40 other conservative organizations, the IRS confessed that it used "heighted scrutiny and inordinate delays" and required unnecessary information in its review of applications for tax-exemptions.

7. In the NorCal Tea Party Patriots case, involving more than 400 groups, plaintiffs contended the IRS used their tax information for improper purposes.



8. ...James O'Keefe, and his Project Veritas, ....recently released secret videotapes in which some of these boorish bureaucrats brazenly admit their chicanery, and even brag about it.

9. On Tuesday, Project Veritas released the first of its tapes unmasking these proud pinheads boasting of sabotaging the Trump agenda. The video features State Department employee Stuart Karaffa, a smarmy, self-proclaimed socialist using his government position to resist official Trump administration policies. Karaffa is a member of the Metro DC Democratic Socialists of America...

10. He admits to drafting DSA communications at his worksite. "I'm careful about it," says Karaffa. "I don't leave a paper trail, like I leave emails, and like any press s--- that comes up, I leave that until after 5:30. But as soon as 5:31 hits, got my like draft messages ready to send out." Precious."
Project Veritas Catches Deep State Redhanded

O'Keefe is a lying sack of shit.

Project veritus is fodder for idiots who will believe any lie that supports their bias.

The deep state is nothing more than a conservative boogyman. They would use it to frighten their kids if they didn't reproduce by fission like all bacteria.

Gee.....lying Liberals said the very same thing when he proved that Planned Parenthood harvested and sold the organ of those children it slaughtered.

Except that they didn't prove anything of the sort. It was all a lie.

But that's ok, believe what you want. I don't expect.you to suddenly rejoin reality.

Rule #1:
Every argument by Democrats/Liberals is a misrepresentation, fabrication, or a bald-faced lie.

And, of course, you exemplify this.

Those are fake videos that have been thoroughly discredited. The fact that you still believe them speaks volumes though.

Actually, it's you and the Left that has been thoroughly discredited.

You've been very helpful in that endeavor.

 

[Crepitus]

O'Keefe is a lying sack of shit.

Project veritus is fodder for idiots who will believe any lie that supports their bias.

The deep state is nothing more than a conservative boogyman. They would use it to frighten their kids if they didn't reproduce by fission like all bacteria.

Gee.....lying Liberals said the very same thing when he proved that Planned Parenthood harvested and sold the organ of those children it slaughtered.

Except that they didn't prove anything of the sort. It was all a lie.

But that's ok, believe what you want. I don't expect.you to suddenly rejoin reality.

Rule #1:
Every argument by Democrats/Liberals is a misrepresentation, fabrication, or a bald-faced lie.

And, of course, you exemplify this.

Those are fake videos that have been thoroughly discredited. The fact that you still believe them speaks volumes though.

Actually, it's you and the Left that has been thoroughly discredited.

You've been very helpful in that endeavor.

You are again dismissed as irrelevant.

Have a nice day.

 

[PoliticalChic]

There is that aroma of irony around the topic: the same folks who rant that there is no God, are the very same ranting that there is no 'Deep State'.....while big government and its Deep State IS their god!


1." I know opponents of President Donald Trump roll their eyes in ridicule at the mere suggestion of a deep state committed to undermining Trump's agenda. That's the stuff of paranoid conspiracy theorists or unhinged Trumpublican tribalists, they say.

2. Well, James O'Keefe, and his Project Veritas, has shown, again, that there is a "there" there.

3. ...unelected leftist bureaucrats embedded in the bowels of the federal government have been lawlessly targeting conservatives and abusing their power to thwart the agenda of duly elected Republican policymakers. The proof keeps pouring in.




4. The Obama administration's IRS deliberately discriminated against conservative groups in their applications for tax-exempt status. This isn't an empty partisan allegation from an imaginary "right-wing conspiracy." In 2013, an IRS official admitted scrutinizing groups with right wing identifying names, such as "Tea Party" and "patriots." An inspector general's report that year confirmed this nefarious practice.

5. At least two groups of cases were settled in 2017 with the IRS agreeing to a "substantial financial settlement" in one and expressing "its sincere apology" in another. This is the kind of tyrannical behavior that liberals used to care about.

6. In a case involving the Linchpins of Liberty and some 40 other conservative organizations, the IRS confessed that it used "heighted scrutiny and inordinate delays" and required unnecessary information in its review of applications for tax-exemptions.

7. In the NorCal Tea Party Patriots case, involving more than 400 groups, plaintiffs contended the IRS used their tax information for improper purposes.



8. ...James O'Keefe, and his Project Veritas, ....recently released secret videotapes in which some of these boorish bureaucrats brazenly admit their chicanery, and even brag about it.

9. On Tuesday, Project Veritas released the first of its tapes unmasking these proud pinheads boasting of sabotaging the Trump agenda. The video features State Department employee Stuart Karaffa, a smarmy, self-proclaimed socialist using his government position to resist official Trump administration policies. Karaffa is a member of the Metro DC Democratic Socialists of America...

10. He admits to drafting DSA communications at his worksite. "I'm careful about it," says Karaffa. "I don't leave a paper trail, like I leave emails, and like any press s--- that comes up, I leave that until after 5:30. But as soon as 5:31 hits, got my like draft messages ready to send out." Precious."
Project Veritas Catches Deep State Redhanded

There is no God. There is a corrupt faction within the government however. Call it whatever you like.

Keep your fairy tales about God in the religion forum please.

This nation was founded on a belief in God.

For a reminder:

There are four references to ‘Divine’ in the Declaration of Independence:

1) in first paragraph ‘Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,’

2) next paragraph ‘endowed by their Creator,”

3) Supreme Judge of the world, and

4) ‘divine’ Providence, last paragraph.

This is important because our historic documents memorialize a government based on individuals born with inalienable rights, by, in various references, by the Divine, or Nature’s God, or their Creator, or the Supreme Judge, or divine Providence.



Perhaps you have some other nation in mind......

I understand the historical importance of God.
Problem is now we posess the intelligence and knowledge to identify the things that made primitive man believe the asteroid he understood to be a wrathful God was actually JUST AN ASTEROID.
Or
That the great flood was not God punishing man but a byproduct of a yet another catastrophic impact that melted the iceshelfs.

Oddly enough we have evidence that the Sumarians knew the real deal about deep space thousands of years before average man ever figured it out.

I dont begrudge anyone who chooses to live by the bible, but I don't have to play stupid because of the beliefs of others.

"...he asteroid he understood to be a wrathful God was actually JUST AN ASTEROID. "


Could you list and quote the Founders who believed that?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

There is that aroma of irony around the topic: the same folks who rant that there is no God, are the very same ranting that there is no 'Deep State'.....while big government and its Deep State IS their god!


1." I know opponents of President Donald Trump roll their eyes in ridicule at the mere suggestion of a deep state committed to undermining Trump's agenda. That's the stuff of paranoid conspiracy theorists or unhinged Trumpublican tribalists, they say.

2. Well, James O'Keefe, and his Project Veritas, has shown, again, that there is a "there" there.

3. ...unelected leftist bureaucrats embedded in the bowels of the federal government have been lawlessly targeting conservatives and abusing their power to thwart the agenda of duly elected Republican policymakers. The proof keeps pouring in.




4. The Obama administration's IRS deliberately discriminated against conservative groups in their applications for tax-exempt status. This isn't an empty partisan allegation from an imaginary "right-wing conspiracy." In 2013, an IRS official admitted scrutinizing groups with right wing identifying names, such as "Tea Party" and "patriots." An inspector general's report that year confirmed this nefarious practice.

5. At least two groups of cases were settled in 2017 with the IRS agreeing to a "substantial financial settlement" in one and expressing "its sincere apology" in another. This is the kind of tyrannical behavior that liberals used to care about.

6. In a case involving the Linchpins of Liberty and some 40 other conservative organizations, the IRS confessed that it used "heighted scrutiny and inordinate delays" and required unnecessary information in its review of applications for tax-exemptions.

7. In the NorCal Tea Party Patriots case, involving more than 400 groups, plaintiffs contended the IRS used their tax information for improper purposes.



8. ...James O'Keefe, and his Project Veritas, ....recently released secret videotapes in which some of these boorish bureaucrats brazenly admit their chicanery, and even brag about it.

9. On Tuesday, Project Veritas released the first of its tapes unmasking these proud pinheads boasting of sabotaging the Trump agenda. The video features State Department employee Stuart Karaffa, a smarmy, self-proclaimed socialist using his government position to resist official Trump administration policies. Karaffa is a member of the Metro DC Democratic Socialists of America...

10. He admits to drafting DSA communications at his worksite. "I'm careful about it," says Karaffa. "I don't leave a paper trail, like I leave emails, and like any press s--- that comes up, I leave that until after 5:30. But as soon as 5:31 hits, got my like draft messages ready to send out." Precious."
Project Veritas Catches Deep State Redhanded

There is no God. There is a corrupt faction within the government however. Call it whatever you like.

Keep your fairy tales about God in the religion forum please.

This nation was founded on a belief in God.

For a reminder:

There are four references to ‘Divine’ in the Declaration of Independence:

1) in first paragraph ‘Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,’

2) next paragraph ‘endowed by their Creator,”

3) Supreme Judge of the world, and

4) ‘divine’ Providence, last paragraph.

This is important because our historic documents memorialize a government based on individuals born with inalienable rights, by, in various references, by the Divine, or Nature’s God, or their Creator, or the Supreme Judge, or divine Providence.



Perhaps you have some other nation in mind......

I understand the historical importance of God.
Problem is now we posess the intelligence and knowledge to identify the things that made primitive man believe the asteroid he understood to be a wrathful God was actually JUST AN ASTEROID.
Or
That the great flood was not God punishing man but a byproduct of a yet another catastrophic impact that melted the iceshelfs.

Oddly enough we have evidence that the Sumarians knew the real deal about deep space thousands of years before average man ever figured it out.

I dont begrudge anyone who chooses to live by the bible, but I don't have to play stupid because of the beliefs of others.

"...he asteroid he understood to be a wrathful God was actually JUST AN ASTEROID. "


Could you list and quote the Founders who believed that?

I'm talking about the source material. The source of founders foundation.

I'm not looking to bash religion but I will go toe to toe on any of the stories from the bible if quoted about it. It is the ultimate brainwashing of history.

 

[PoliticalChic]

There is that aroma of irony around the topic: the same folks who rant that there is no God, are the very same ranting that there is no 'Deep State'.....while big government and its Deep State IS their god!


1." I know opponents of President Donald Trump roll their eyes in ridicule at the mere suggestion of a deep state committed to undermining Trump's agenda. That's the stuff of paranoid conspiracy theorists or unhinged Trumpublican tribalists, they say.

2. Well, James O'Keefe, and his Project Veritas, has shown, again, that there is a "there" there.

3. ...unelected leftist bureaucrats embedded in the bowels of the federal government have been lawlessly targeting conservatives and abusing their power to thwart the agenda of duly elected Republican policymakers. The proof keeps pouring in.




4. The Obama administration's IRS deliberately discriminated against conservative groups in their applications for tax-exempt status. This isn't an empty partisan allegation from an imaginary "right-wing conspiracy." In 2013, an IRS official admitted scrutinizing groups with right wing identifying names, such as "Tea Party" and "patriots." An inspector general's report that year confirmed this nefarious practice.

5. At least two groups of cases were settled in 2017 with the IRS agreeing to a "substantial financial settlement" in one and expressing "its sincere apology" in another. This is the kind of tyrannical behavior that liberals used to care about.

6. In a case involving the Linchpins of Liberty and some 40 other conservative organizations, the IRS confessed that it used "heighted scrutiny and inordinate delays" and required unnecessary information in its review of applications for tax-exemptions.

7. In the NorCal Tea Party Patriots case, involving more than 400 groups, plaintiffs contended the IRS used their tax information for improper purposes.



8. ...James O'Keefe, and his Project Veritas, ....recently released secret videotapes in which some of these boorish bureaucrats brazenly admit their chicanery, and even brag about it.

9. On Tuesday, Project Veritas released the first of its tapes unmasking these proud pinheads boasting of sabotaging the Trump agenda. The video features State Department employee Stuart Karaffa, a smarmy, self-proclaimed socialist using his government position to resist official Trump administration policies. Karaffa is a member of the Metro DC Democratic Socialists of America...

10. He admits to drafting DSA communications at his worksite. "I'm careful about it," says Karaffa. "I don't leave a paper trail, like I leave emails, and like any press s--- that comes up, I leave that until after 5:30. But as soon as 5:31 hits, got my like draft messages ready to send out." Precious."
Project Veritas Catches Deep State Redhanded

There is no God. There is a corrupt faction within the government however. Call it whatever you like.

Keep your fairy tales about God in the religion forum please.

This nation was founded on a belief in God.

For a reminder:

There are four references to ‘Divine’ in the Declaration of Independence:

1) in first paragraph ‘Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,’

2) next paragraph ‘endowed by their Creator,”

3) Supreme Judge of the world, and

4) ‘divine’ Providence, last paragraph.

This is important because our historic documents memorialize a government based on individuals born with inalienable rights, by, in various references, by the Divine, or Nature’s God, or their Creator, or the Supreme Judge, or divine Providence.



Perhaps you have some other nation in mind......

I understand the historical importance of God.
Problem is now we posess the intelligence and knowledge to identify the things that made primitive man believe the asteroid he understood to be a wrathful God was actually JUST AN ASTEROID.
Or
That the great flood was not God punishing man but a byproduct of a yet another catastrophic impact that melted the iceshelfs.

Oddly enough we have evidence that the Sumarians knew the real deal about deep space thousands of years before average man ever figured it out.

I dont begrudge anyone who chooses to live by the bible, but I don't have to play stupid because of the beliefs of others.

"...he asteroid he understood to be a wrathful God was actually JUST AN ASTEROID. "


Could you list and quote the Founders who believed that?

I'm talking about the source material. The source of founders foundation.

I'm not looking to bash religion but I will go toe to toe on any of the stories from the bible if quoted about it. It is the ultimate brainwashing of history.

So, you've retreated from your absurd claim about God and asteroids.


Now...
"I'm talking about the source material. The source of founders foundation."

Take notes:

1. The most quoted source was the Bible. Established in the original writings of our Founding Fathers we find that they discovered in Isaiah 33:22 the three branches of government: Isaiah 33:22 “For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.” Here we see the judicial, the legislative and the executive branches. In Ezra 7:24 we see where they established the tax exempt status of the church: Ezra 7:24 “Also we certify you, that touching any of the priests and Levites, singers, porters, Nethinims, or ministers of this house of God, it shall not be lawful to impose toll, tribute, or custom, upon them.”

When we look at our Constitution we see in Article 4 Section 4 that we are guaranteed a Republican form of government, that was found in Exodus 18 “Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:” This indicates that we are to choose, or elect God fearing men and women. Looking at Article 3 Section 3 we see almost word for word Deuteronomy 17:6: ‘No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses. . .’ Deuteronomy 17:6 “At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses. . .”. The next paragraph in Article 3 Section 3 refers to who should pay the price for treason. In England, they could punish the sons for the trespasses of the father, if the father died.

Roger Anghis -- Bring America Back To Her Religious Roots, Part 7


2.

This question was asked by political science professors at the University of Houston. They rightfully felt that they could determine the source of the Founders’ ideas if they could collect the writings from the Founding Era and see whom the Founders were quoting.

The researchers assembled 15,000 writings from the founding Era – no small sample – and searched those writings. That project spanned ten years; but at the end of that time, the researchers had isolated 3,154 direct quotes made by the Founders and had identified the source of those quotes.

The researchers discovered that Baron Charles de Montesquieu was the man quoted most often by the founding fathers, with 8.3 percent of the Founders’ quotes being taken from his writings. Sir William Blackstone was the second most-quoted individual with 7.9 percent of the Founder’s quotes, and John Locke was third with 2.9 percent.

Surprisingly, the researchers discovered that the founders quoted directly out of the bible 4 times more than they quoted Montesquieu, 4 times more often than they quoted Blackstone, and 12 times more often than they quoted John Locke. Thirty four percent of the Founders’ quotes came directly out of the bible.

The study was even more impressive when the source of the ideas used by Montesquieu, Blackstone, and Locke were identified. Consider for example, the source of Blackstone’s ideas. Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws was first introduced in 1768, and for the next 100 years America’s courts quoted Blackstone to settle disputes, to define words, and to examine procedure; Blackstone’s Commentaries were the final word in the Supreme Courts. So what was a significant source of Blackstone’s ideas? Perhaps the best answer to that question can be given through the life of Charles Finney.

Charles Finney is known as a famous revivalist, minister, and preacher from one of America’s greatest revivals; the Second Great Awakening in the early 1800’s. Finney, in his autobiography, spoke of how he received his call to ministry. He explained that – having determined to become a lawyer – he, like all other law students at the time, commenced the study of Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws. Finney observed that Blackstone’s Commentaries not only provided the laws, it also provided the Biblical concepts on which those laws were based. Finney explained that in the process of studying Blackstone, he read so much of the Bible that he became a Christian and received his call to the ministry. Finney’s life story clearly identified a major source of Blackstone’s ideas for law.

So, while 34% of the Founders’ quotes came directly out of the Bible, many of their quotes were taken from men – like Blackstone – who had used the Bible to arrive at their own conclusions.”

This doesn’t even include Supreme Court decisions, Congressional records, speeches, inaugurations, etc. all of which include sources of Biblical content and concepts. I can produce those as well, if need be ,as well as what was taught in American schools for the first 175 years.

Bear in mind, the above is not some made up opinion, it is well documented, irrefutable research into actual quotes from the Founders.


Sources:

David Barton, Original Intent, 1997

Donald Lutz, The Origins of American Constitutionalism 1988

“The Relative Influence of European Writers on Late Eighteenth Century American Political Thought” American Political Science Review

3. Thirty-four percent of all the quotes by the founding fathers came from the Bible. Also, men like Blackstone and Locke, whom the founders quoted, took much of their own quotes from the Bible. Our three branches of government came from Isaiah 33:22. Tax exemption for churches came from Ezra 7:24, which no other nation has today. The book of Deuteronomy was the most quoted book of the Bible by our founding fathers. This book deals much with civil government. This is why America was founded as a republic, not a democracy. We are governed by constitutional law, not by majority law. Our founding fathers, who framed the constitution realized that governments of democracy were short lived and ended in bondage. Democracies are only a step from anarchy. http://www.fundamentalfaith.com/id38.htm


"Churches are tax exempt under the principle that there is no surer way to destroy the free exercise of religion than to tax it. ... I agree with the Supreme Court that anexemption for churches from taxes tends to reinforce a very healthy separation between church and state.Sep 23, 2008"

Why don't churches pay taxes? - LA Times

www.latimes.com/la-oew-lynn-stanley23-2008sep23-story.html


4. In a study that appeared in the American Political Science Review back in 1984, two political science professors, Dr. Donald Lutz and Dr. Charles Heineman researched 15,000 writings, letters, diaries, sermons and other works that were written by various leading Americans from 1760-1805. Their purpose was to identify quotations to find out who the founding fathers were quoting' where they got their ideas, what authorities they were most impressed with. They found that by far the most widely quoted source in the founding fathers' writings was the Bible. Thirty-four percent of all quotations came out of the Bible. And the book of the Bible they quoted most often was the book of Deuteronomy. Now most of us don't go around quoting Deuteronomy a great deal today, but Deuteronomy is the book of the law. And they were writing about law and government.

Citizens for a Constitutional Republic


5. Do you know the preamble for all 50 states?
It might surprise some people.


The Fifty States Reference God in their Constitutions-
The Fifty States Reference God in their Constitutions-Truth!

 

[Lesh]

You appear to be as about 'bat shit crazy' as John Brennan (disgraced former CIA) w/o the actual credentials... lol

YOU appear to be Russian troll

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

There is no God. There is a corrupt faction within the government however. Call it whatever you like.

Keep your fairy tales about God in the religion forum please.

This nation was founded on a belief in God.

For a reminder:

There are four references to ‘Divine’ in the Declaration of Independence:

1) in first paragraph ‘Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,’

2) next paragraph ‘endowed by their Creator,”

3) Supreme Judge of the world, and

4) ‘divine’ Providence, last paragraph.

This is important because our historic documents memorialize a government based on individuals born with inalienable rights, by, in various references, by the Divine, or Nature’s God, or their Creator, or the Supreme Judge, or divine Providence.



Perhaps you have some other nation in mind......

I understand the historical importance of God.
Problem is now we posess the intelligence and knowledge to identify the things that made primitive man believe the asteroid he understood to be a wrathful God was actually JUST AN ASTEROID.
Or
That the great flood was not God punishing man but a byproduct of a yet another catastrophic impact that melted the iceshelfs.

Oddly enough we have evidence that the Sumarians knew the real deal about deep space thousands of years before average man ever figured it out.

I dont begrudge anyone who chooses to live by the bible, but I don't have to play stupid because of the beliefs of others.

"...he asteroid he understood to be a wrathful God was actually JUST AN ASTEROID. "


Could you list and quote the Founders who believed that?

I'm talking about the source material. The source of founders foundation.

I'm not looking to bash religion but I will go toe to toe on any of the stories from the bible if quoted about it. It is the ultimate brainwashing of history.

So, you've retreated from your absurd claim about God and asteroids.


Now...
"I'm talking about the source material. The source of founders foundation."

Take notes:

1. The most quoted source was the Bible. Established in the original writings of our Founding Fathers we find that they discovered in Isaiah 33:22 the three branches of government: Isaiah 33:22 “For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.” Here we see the judicial, the legislative and the executive branches. In Ezra 7:24 we see where they established the tax exempt status of the church: Ezra 7:24 “Also we certify you, that touching any of the priests and Levites, singers, porters, Nethinims, or ministers of this house of God, it shall not be lawful to impose toll, tribute, or custom, upon them.”

When we look at our Constitution we see in Article 4 Section 4 that we are guaranteed a Republican form of government, that was found in Exodus 18 “Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:” This indicates that we are to choose, or elect God fearing men and women. Looking at Article 3 Section 3 we see almost word for word Deuteronomy 17:6: ‘No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses. . .’ Deuteronomy 17:6 “At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses. . .”. The next paragraph in Article 3 Section 3 refers to who should pay the price for treason. In England, they could punish the sons for the trespasses of the father, if the father died.

Roger Anghis -- Bring America Back To Her Religious Roots, Part 7


2.

This question was asked by political science professors at the University of Houston. They rightfully felt that they could determine the source of the Founders’ ideas if they could collect the writings from the Founding Era and see whom the Founders were quoting.

The researchers assembled 15,000 writings from the founding Era – no small sample – and searched those writings. That project spanned ten years; but at the end of that time, the researchers had isolated 3,154 direct quotes made by the Founders and had identified the source of those quotes.

The researchers discovered that Baron Charles de Montesquieu was the man quoted most often by the founding fathers, with 8.3 percent of the Founders’ quotes being taken from his writings. Sir William Blackstone was the second most-quoted individual with 7.9 percent of the Founder’s quotes, and John Locke was third with 2.9 percent.

Surprisingly, the researchers discovered that the founders quoted directly out of the bible 4 times more than they quoted Montesquieu, 4 times more often than they quoted Blackstone, and 12 times more often than they quoted John Locke. Thirty four percent of the Founders’ quotes came directly out of the bible.

The study was even more impressive when the source of the ideas used by Montesquieu, Blackstone, and Locke were identified. Consider for example, the source of Blackstone’s ideas. Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws was first introduced in 1768, and for the next 100 years America’s courts quoted Blackstone to settle disputes, to define words, and to examine procedure; Blackstone’s Commentaries were the final word in the Supreme Courts. So what was a significant source of Blackstone’s ideas? Perhaps the best answer to that question can be given through the life of Charles Finney.

Charles Finney is known as a famous revivalist, minister, and preacher from one of America’s greatest revivals; the Second Great Awakening in the early 1800’s. Finney, in his autobiography, spoke of how he received his call to ministry. He explained that – having determined to become a lawyer – he, like all other law students at the time, commenced the study of Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws. Finney observed that Blackstone’s Commentaries not only provided the laws, it also provided the Biblical concepts on which those laws were based. Finney explained that in the process of studying Blackstone, he read so much of the Bible that he became a Christian and received his call to the ministry. Finney’s life story clearly identified a major source of Blackstone’s ideas for law.

So, while 34% of the Founders’ quotes came directly out of the Bible, many of their quotes were taken from men – like Blackstone – who had used the Bible to arrive at their own conclusions.”

This doesn’t even include Supreme Court decisions, Congressional records, speeches, inaugurations, etc. all of which include sources of Biblical content and concepts. I can produce those as well, if need be ,as well as what was taught in American schools for the first 175 years.

Bear in mind, the above is not some made up opinion, it is well documented, irrefutable research into actual quotes from the Founders.


Sources:

David Barton, Original Intent, 1997

Donald Lutz, The Origins of American Constitutionalism 1988

“The Relative Influence of European Writers on Late Eighteenth Century American Political Thought” American Political Science Review

3. Thirty-four percent of all the quotes by the founding fathers came from the Bible. Also, men like Blackstone and Locke, whom the founders quoted, took much of their own quotes from the Bible. Our three branches of government came from Isaiah 33:22. Tax exemption for churches came from Ezra 7:24, which no other nation has today. The book of Deuteronomy was the most quoted book of the Bible by our founding fathers. This book deals much with civil government. This is why America was founded as a republic, not a democracy. We are governed by constitutional law, not by majority law. Our founding fathers, who framed the constitution realized that governments of democracy were short lived and ended in bondage. Democracies are only a step from anarchy. http://www.fundamentalfaith.com/id38.htm


"Churches are tax exempt under the principle that there is no surer way to destroy the free exercise of religion than to tax it. ... I agree with the Supreme Court that anexemption for churches from taxes tends to reinforce a very healthy separation between church and state.Sep 23, 2008"

Why don't churches pay taxes? - LA Times

www.latimes.com/la-oew-lynn-stanley23-2008sep23-story.html


4. In a study that appeared in the American Political Science Review back in 1984, two political science professors, Dr. Donald Lutz and Dr. Charles Heineman researched 15,000 writings, letters, diaries, sermons and other works that were written by various leading Americans from 1760-1805. Their purpose was to identify quotations to find out who the founding fathers were quoting' where they got their ideas, what authorities they were most impressed with. They found that by far the most widely quoted source in the founding fathers' writings was the Bible. Thirty-four percent of all quotations came out of the Bible. And the book of the Bible they quoted most often was the book of Deuteronomy. Now most of us don't go around quoting Deuteronomy a great deal today, but Deuteronomy is the book of the law. And they were writing about law and government.

Citizens for a Constitutional Republic


5. Do you know the preamble for all 50 states?
It might surprise some people.


The Fifty States Reference God in their Constitutions-
The Fifty States Reference God in their Constitutions-Truth!

Tradition, be it accurate or not, often dies slowly.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You appear to be as about 'bat shit crazy' as John Brennan (disgraced former CIA) w/o the actual credentials... lol

YOU appear to be Russian troll

"CIA Director Once Voted for Communist Presidential Candidate

CIA Director John Brennan voted for the Communist Party candidate in the 1976 presidential election.

Brennan told a congressional panel last week that he "froze" while taking a CIA polygraph test four years later when the questioner asked him if he had ever worked with or for a group that was "dedicated to overthrowing the U.S.," CNN reported.

"This was back in 1980, and I thought back to a previous election where I voted, and I voted for the Communist Party candidate," Brennan said at a panel discussion regarding diversity in the intelligence community during the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation’s annual conference."
CIA Director Once Voted for Communist Presidential Candidate

 

[PoliticalChic]

This nation was founded on a belief in God.

For a reminder:

There are four references to ‘Divine’ in the Declaration of Independence:

1) in first paragraph ‘Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,’

2) next paragraph ‘endowed by their Creator,”

3) Supreme Judge of the world, and

4) ‘divine’ Providence, last paragraph.

This is important because our historic documents memorialize a government based on individuals born with inalienable rights, by, in various references, by the Divine, or Nature’s God, or their Creator, or the Supreme Judge, or divine Providence.



Perhaps you have some other nation in mind......

I understand the historical importance of God.
Problem is now we posess the intelligence and knowledge to identify the things that made primitive man believe the asteroid he understood to be a wrathful God was actually JUST AN ASTEROID.
Or
That the great flood was not God punishing man but a byproduct of a yet another catastrophic impact that melted the iceshelfs.

Oddly enough we have evidence that the Sumarians knew the real deal about deep space thousands of years before average man ever figured it out.

I dont begrudge anyone who chooses to live by the bible, but I don't have to play stupid because of the beliefs of others.

"...he asteroid he understood to be a wrathful God was actually JUST AN ASTEROID. "


Could you list and quote the Founders who believed that?

I'm talking about the source material. The source of founders foundation.

I'm not looking to bash religion but I will go toe to toe on any of the stories from the bible if quoted about it. It is the ultimate brainwashing of history.

So, you've retreated from your absurd claim about God and asteroids.


Now...
"I'm talking about the source material. The source of founders foundation."

Take notes:

1. The most quoted source was the Bible. Established in the original writings of our Founding Fathers we find that they discovered in Isaiah 33:22 the three branches of government: Isaiah 33:22 “For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.” Here we see the judicial, the legislative and the executive branches. In Ezra 7:24 we see where they established the tax exempt status of the church: Ezra 7:24 “Also we certify you, that touching any of the priests and Levites, singers, porters, Nethinims, or ministers of this house of God, it shall not be lawful to impose toll, tribute, or custom, upon them.”

When we look at our Constitution we see in Article 4 Section 4 that we are guaranteed a Republican form of government, that was found in Exodus 18 “Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:” This indicates that we are to choose, or elect God fearing men and women. Looking at Article 3 Section 3 we see almost word for word Deuteronomy 17:6: ‘No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses. . .’ Deuteronomy 17:6 “At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses. . .”. The next paragraph in Article 3 Section 3 refers to who should pay the price for treason. In England, they could punish the sons for the trespasses of the father, if the father died.

Roger Anghis -- Bring America Back To Her Religious Roots, Part 7


2.

This question was asked by political science professors at the University of Houston. They rightfully felt that they could determine the source of the Founders’ ideas if they could collect the writings from the Founding Era and see whom the Founders were quoting.

The researchers assembled 15,000 writings from the founding Era – no small sample – and searched those writings. That project spanned ten years; but at the end of that time, the researchers had isolated 3,154 direct quotes made by the Founders and had identified the source of those quotes.

The researchers discovered that Baron Charles de Montesquieu was the man quoted most often by the founding fathers, with 8.3 percent of the Founders’ quotes being taken from his writings. Sir William Blackstone was the second most-quoted individual with 7.9 percent of the Founder’s quotes, and John Locke was third with 2.9 percent.

Surprisingly, the researchers discovered that the founders quoted directly out of the bible 4 times more than they quoted Montesquieu, 4 times more often than they quoted Blackstone, and 12 times more often than they quoted John Locke. Thirty four percent of the Founders’ quotes came directly out of the bible.

The study was even more impressive when the source of the ideas used by Montesquieu, Blackstone, and Locke were identified. Consider for example, the source of Blackstone’s ideas. Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws was first introduced in 1768, and for the next 100 years America’s courts quoted Blackstone to settle disputes, to define words, and to examine procedure; Blackstone’s Commentaries were the final word in the Supreme Courts. So what was a significant source of Blackstone’s ideas? Perhaps the best answer to that question can be given through the life of Charles Finney.

Charles Finney is known as a famous revivalist, minister, and preacher from one of America’s greatest revivals; the Second Great Awakening in the early 1800’s. Finney, in his autobiography, spoke of how he received his call to ministry. He explained that – having determined to become a lawyer – he, like all other law students at the time, commenced the study of Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws. Finney observed that Blackstone’s Commentaries not only provided the laws, it also provided the Biblical concepts on which those laws were based. Finney explained that in the process of studying Blackstone, he read so much of the Bible that he became a Christian and received his call to the ministry. Finney’s life story clearly identified a major source of Blackstone’s ideas for law.

So, while 34% of the Founders’ quotes came directly out of the Bible, many of their quotes were taken from men – like Blackstone – who had used the Bible to arrive at their own conclusions.”

This doesn’t even include Supreme Court decisions, Congressional records, speeches, inaugurations, etc. all of which include sources of Biblical content and concepts. I can produce those as well, if need be ,as well as what was taught in American schools for the first 175 years.

Bear in mind, the above is not some made up opinion, it is well documented, irrefutable research into actual quotes from the Founders.


Sources:

David Barton, Original Intent, 1997

Donald Lutz, The Origins of American Constitutionalism 1988

“The Relative Influence of European Writers on Late Eighteenth Century American Political Thought” American Political Science Review

3. Thirty-four percent of all the quotes by the founding fathers came from the Bible. Also, men like Blackstone and Locke, whom the founders quoted, took much of their own quotes from the Bible. Our three branches of government came from Isaiah 33:22. Tax exemption for churches came from Ezra 7:24, which no other nation has today. The book of Deuteronomy was the most quoted book of the Bible by our founding fathers. This book deals much with civil government. This is why America was founded as a republic, not a democracy. We are governed by constitutional law, not by majority law. Our founding fathers, who framed the constitution realized that governments of democracy were short lived and ended in bondage. Democracies are only a step from anarchy. http://www.fundamentalfaith.com/id38.htm


"Churches are tax exempt under the principle that there is no surer way to destroy the free exercise of religion than to tax it. ... I agree with the Supreme Court that anexemption for churches from taxes tends to reinforce a very healthy separation between church and state.Sep 23, 2008"

Why don't churches pay taxes? - LA Times

www.latimes.com/la-oew-lynn-stanley23-2008sep23-story.html


4. In a study that appeared in the American Political Science Review back in 1984, two political science professors, Dr. Donald Lutz and Dr. Charles Heineman researched 15,000 writings, letters, diaries, sermons and other works that were written by various leading Americans from 1760-1805. Their purpose was to identify quotations to find out who the founding fathers were quoting' where they got their ideas, what authorities they were most impressed with. They found that by far the most widely quoted source in the founding fathers' writings was the Bible. Thirty-four percent of all quotations came out of the Bible. And the book of the Bible they quoted most often was the book of Deuteronomy. Now most of us don't go around quoting Deuteronomy a great deal today, but Deuteronomy is the book of the law. And they were writing about law and government.

Citizens for a Constitutional Republic


5. Do you know the preamble for all 50 states?
It might surprise some people.


The Fifty States Reference God in their Constitutions-
The Fifty States Reference God in their Constitutions-Truth!

Tradition, be it accurate or not, often dies slowly.

Why would you wish this sort of 'tradition' to die at all?????


"If there's no God - making ourselves the source of ethics for everybody, or declaring that nobody can be the source of ethics for anybody, and therefore morality is, again, purely subjective.

Abortion may be legal, and a woman’s right….but this doesn’t it is ethically right. The Greeks believed in a version of same in which they placed deformed babies on the hillside. The reason I use the Greek example of ugly children is not because we do it today, but because they had reason on their side.

Reason supports a lot of things, as for example, a very liberal position on abortion.

If there is no God, "Love your neighbor as yourself" is just a good idea. That's why it is written, incidentally, in Leviticus, "Love your neighbor as yourself, I am God." I, God, tell you to be decent to other people."
Dennis Prager

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

"If there's no God - making ourselves the source of ethics for everybody, or declaring that nobody can be the source of ethics for anybody, and therefore morality is, again, purely subjective.

Why do you need a God to be moral or ethical? Are you incapable of looking inwards for the desire to do right? Why must someone or something else lead you like a dog on a leash?
True freedom eludes you.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Believe it or not I am watching Joel Osteen right now and while his stories are very good there is no need for a belief in God to apply the principles he speaks of in your life.
A good motivational speaker imo.

 

[Mac1958]

Believe it or not I am watching Joel Osteen right now and while his stories are very good there is no need for a belief in God to apply the principles he speaks of in your life. A good motivational speaker imo.

When practiced with actual sincerity & integrity, religion can provide answers, guidance, comfort, hope. Those can all be good things. That doesn't mean the underlying subject is real.
.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"If there's no God - making ourselves the source of ethics for everybody, or declaring that nobody can be the source of ethics for anybody, and therefore morality is, again, purely subjective.

Why do you need a God to be moral or ethical? Are you incapable of looking inwards for the desire to do right? Why must someone or something else lead you like a dog on a leash?
True freedom eludes you.

The 'need' may not pertain to particular individuals....but societies seems not to be able to fulfill the need sans the Judeo-Christian religions.

Now for the idea that the rational, the common sense method is better than religious morality. Can a human being be good without reference to God? As the saying goes, ‘Going to church doesn’t make you a good Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.’ Sure….there could be good pagans….or bad religious folks. While it is true that one can be moral and good and not religious, the idea does not work for all or even most.
Op. Cit.


Your view is that of the French Revolution, where the attempt was to replace religion with reason and science .....and resulted in 600,000 dead.

Science and reason can tell us what we can do.....not what we should do.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

"If there's no God - making ourselves the source of ethics for everybody, or declaring that nobody can be the source of ethics for anybody, and therefore morality is, again, purely subjective.

Why do you need a God to be moral or ethical? Are you incapable of looking inwards for the desire to do right? Why must someone or something else lead you like a dog on a leash?
True freedom eludes you.

The 'need' may not pertain to particular individuals....but societies seems not to be able to fulfill the need sans the Judeo-Christian religions.

Now for the idea that the rational, the common sense method is better than religious morality. Can a human being be good without reference to God? As the saying goes, ‘Going to church doesn’t make you a good Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.’ Sure….there could be good pagans….or bad religious folks. While it is true that one can be moral and good and not religious, the idea does not work for all or even most.
Op. Cit.


Your view is that of the French Revolution, where the attempt was to replace religion with reason and science .....and resulted in 600,000 dead.

Science and reason can tell us what we can do.....not what we should do.

And how many millions have died in the names of the worlds religions?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Religion is a construct through which populations were controlled via fear, often with an iron fist.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"If there's no God - making ourselves the source of ethics for everybody, or declaring that nobody can be the source of ethics for anybody, and therefore morality is, again, purely subjective.

Why do you need a God to be moral or ethical? Are you incapable of looking inwards for the desire to do right? Why must someone or something else lead you like a dog on a leash?
True freedom eludes you.

The 'need' may not pertain to particular individuals....but societies seems not to be able to fulfill the need sans the Judeo-Christian religions.

Now for the idea that the rational, the common sense method is better than religious morality. Can a human being be good without reference to God? As the saying goes, ‘Going to church doesn’t make you a good Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.’ Sure….there could be good pagans….or bad religious folks. While it is true that one can be moral and good and not religious, the idea does not work for all or even most.
Op. Cit.


Your view is that of the French Revolution, where the attempt was to replace religion with reason and science .....and resulted in 600,000 dead.

Science and reason can tell us what we can do.....not what we should do.

And how many millions have died in the names of the worlds religions?

Not a fraction as have died based on secular forces.

First World War (1914–18): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 million

Russian Civil War (1917–22): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 million

Soviet Union, Stalin’s regime (1924–53): . . . . . . . . . 20 million

Second World War (1937–45): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55 million

Chinese Civil War (1945–49): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.5 million

People’s Republic of China, Mao Zedong’s

regime (1949–75): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 million

Tibet (1950 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600,000

Congo Free State (1886–1908): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 million

Mexico (1910–20): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 million

Turkish massacres of Armenians (1915–23): . . . . . 1.5 million

China (1917–28): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 800,000

China, Nationalist era (1928–37): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.1 million

Korean War (1950–53): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.8 million

North Korea (1948 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 million

Rwanda and Burundi (1959–95): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.35 million

Second Indochina War (1960–75): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.5 million

Ethiopia (1962–92): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000

Nigeria (1966–70): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 million

Bangladesh (1971): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.25 million

Cambodia, Khmer Rouge (1975–78): . . . . . . . . . . . 1.65 million

Mozambique (1975–92): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 million

Afghanistan (1979–2001): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.8 million

Iran–Iraq War (1980–88): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 million

Sudan (1983 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.9 million

Kinshasa, Congo (1998 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.8 million

Philippines Insurgency (1899–1902): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 220,000

Brazil (1900 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 500,000

Amazonia (1900–1912): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 250,000

Portuguese colonies (1900–1925): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 325,000

French colonies (1900–1940): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200,000

Japanese War (1904–5): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 130,000

German East Africa (1905–7): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 175,000

Libya (1911–31): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 125,000

Balkan Wars (1912–13): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 140,000

Greco–Turkish War (1919–22): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 250,000

Spanish Civil War (1936–39): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 365,000

Franco Regime (1939–75): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100,000

Abyssinian Conquest (1935–41): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000

Finnish War (1939–40): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150,000

Greek Civil War (1943–49): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 158,000

Yugoslavia, Tito’s regime (1944–80): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200,000

First Indochina War (1945–54): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000

Colombia (1946–58): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200,000

India (1947): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 500,000

Romania (1948–89): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150,000

Burma/Myanmar (1948 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 130,000

Algeria (1954–62): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 537,000

Sudan (1955–72): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 500,000

Guatemala (1960–96): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200,000

Indonesia (1965–66): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000

Uganda, Idi Amin’s regime (1972–79): . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300,000

Vietnam, postwar Communist regime

(1975 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430,000

Angola (1975–2002): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 550,000

East Timor, conquest by Indonesia (1975–99): . . . . . 200,000

Lebanon (1975–90): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150,000

Cambodian Civil War (1978–91): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 225,000

Iraq, Saddam Hussein (1979–2003): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300,000

Uganda (1979–86): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300,000

Kurdistan (1980s, 1990s): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300,000

Liberia (1989–97): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150,000

Iraq (1990– ): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 350,000

Bosnia and Herzegovina (1992–95): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 175,000

Somalia (1991 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000
See Berlinski, "Devil's Delusion"

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

"If there's no God - making ourselves the source of ethics for everybody, or declaring that nobody can be the source of ethics for anybody, and therefore morality is, again, purely subjective.

Why do you need a God to be moral or ethical? Are you incapable of looking inwards for the desire to do right? Why must someone or something else lead you like a dog on a leash?
True freedom eludes you.

The 'need' may not pertain to particular individuals....but societies seems not to be able to fulfill the need sans the Judeo-Christian religions.

Now for the idea that the rational, the common sense method is better than religious morality. Can a human being be good without reference to God? As the saying goes, ‘Going to church doesn’t make you a good Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.’ Sure….there could be good pagans….or bad religious folks. While it is true that one can be moral and good and not religious, the idea does not work for all or even most.
Op. Cit.


Your view is that of the French Revolution, where the attempt was to replace religion with reason and science .....and resulted in 600,000 dead.

Science and reason can tell us what we can do.....not what we should do.

And how many millions have died in the names of the worlds religions?

Not a fraction as have died based on secular forces.

First World War (1914–18): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 million

Russian Civil War (1917–22): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 million

Soviet Union, Stalin’s regime (1924–53): . . . . . . . . . 20 million

Second World War (1937–45): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55 million

Chinese Civil War (1945–49): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.5 million

People’s Republic of China, Mao Zedong’s

regime (1949–75): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 million

Tibet (1950 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600,000

Congo Free State (1886–1908): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 million

Mexico (1910–20): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 million

Turkish massacres of Armenians (1915–23): . . . . . 1.5 million

China (1917–28): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 800,000

China, Nationalist era (1928–37): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.1 million

Korean War (1950–53): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.8 million

North Korea (1948 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 million

Rwanda and Burundi (1959–95): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.35 million

Second Indochina War (1960–75): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.5 million

Ethiopia (1962–92): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000

Nigeria (1966–70): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 million

Bangladesh (1971): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.25 million

Cambodia, Khmer Rouge (1975–78): . . . . . . . . . . . 1.65 million

Mozambique (1975–92): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 million

Afghanistan (1979–2001): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.8 million

Iran–Iraq War (1980–88): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 million

Sudan (1983 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.9 million

Kinshasa, Congo (1998 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.8 million

Philippines Insurgency (1899–1902): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 220,000

Brazil (1900 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 500,000

Amazonia (1900–1912): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 250,000

Portuguese colonies (1900–1925): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 325,000

French colonies (1900–1940): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200,000

Japanese War (1904–5): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 130,000

German East Africa (1905–7): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 175,000

Libya (1911–31): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 125,000

Balkan Wars (1912–13): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 140,000

Greco–Turkish War (1919–22): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 250,000

Spanish Civil War (1936–39): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 365,000

Franco Regime (1939–75): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100,000

Abyssinian Conquest (1935–41): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000

Finnish War (1939–40): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150,000

Greek Civil War (1943–49): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 158,000

Yugoslavia, Tito’s regime (1944–80): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200,000

First Indochina War (1945–54): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000

Colombia (1946–58): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200,000

India (1947): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 500,000

Romania (1948–89): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150,000

Burma/Myanmar (1948 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 130,000

Algeria (1954–62): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 537,000

Sudan (1955–72): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 500,000

Guatemala (1960–96): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 200,000

Indonesia (1965–66): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000

Uganda, Idi Amin’s regime (1972–79): . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300,000

Vietnam, postwar Communist regime

(1975 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 430,000

Angola (1975–2002): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 550,000

East Timor, conquest by Indonesia (1975–99): . . . . . 200,000

Lebanon (1975–90): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150,000

Cambodian Civil War (1978–91): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 225,000

Iraq, Saddam Hussein (1979–2003): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300,000

Uganda (1979–86): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300,000

Kurdistan (1980s, 1990s): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 300,000

Liberia (1989–97): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150,000

Iraq (1990– ): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 350,000

Bosnia and Herzegovina (1992–95): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 175,000

Somalia (1991 et seq.): . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400,000
See Berlinski, "Devil's Delusion"

Your list contains wars DEEPLY rooted in religious dogma.

We went from burning witches (lol at that nutbaggery) to molesting little boys.

Organized religion is evil in every sense of the world and mankind is likely hundreds of years behind in knowledge and technology as a result.

Did you know the bible as you read it today is not as it was when it was compiled? Many books are completely missing and the translation has changed many of the meanings.

And best of all the bible was written BY MAN hundreds of years after the supposed timeline of the stories contained in it based on tradition and hand me down stories.

How many times is a story able to be repeated over hundreds of years yet remain faithful to the original source

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Your list contains wars DEEPLY rooted in religious dogma.
We went from burning witches (lol at that nutbaggery) to molesting little boys.
Organized religion is evil in every sense of the world and mankind is likely hundreds of years behind in knowledge and technology as a result.

To blame ALL Christians for the misguided deeds of SOME is to blame all Americans past & present for early American slavery. And you also would be incorrect.
As if ALL Christians burned witches and ALL Christians molest little boys.

You paint with far too wide a brush. Those who oppose religion, also resist the notion that much good has been done in the name of religion, to the benefit of mankind.

Among the early scientists of note who held the Biblical creationist world view are Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727), and Samuel Morse (1791-1872) - what motivated them was a confidence in the "rationality" behind the universe and the "goodness" of the material world.

Christianity and Technological Advance - The Astonishing Connection

Religious belief is not inherently a bad thing. And bad people can distort intent.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Your list contains wars DEEPLY rooted in religious dogma.
We went from burning witches (lol at that nutbaggery) to molesting little boys.
Organized religion is evil in every sense of the world and mankind is likely hundreds of years behind in knowledge and technology as a result.

To blame ALL Christians for the misguided deeds of SOME is to blame all Americans past & present for early American slavery. And you also would be incorrect.
As if ALL Christians burned witches and ALL Christians molest little boys.

You paint with far too wide a brush. Those who oppose religion, also resist the notion that much good has been done in the name of religion, to the benefit of mankind.

Among the early scientists of note who held the Biblical creationist world view are Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727), and Samuel Morse (1791-1872) - what motivated them was a confidence in the "rationality" behind the universe and the "goodness" of the material world.

Christianity and Technological Advance - The Astonishing Connection

Religious belief is not inherently a bad thing. And bad people can distort intent.

A good post. As I stated earlier I did not wish to dog on religion but only respond when quoted.
I never ment to suggest all Christians are bad and in fact don't believe that. I do believe they are all misguided but that means little in the grand scheme of things.
My main point is that ORGANIZED religion is a farce and has held back the human race from advancements because of the dogma it is founded upon.
I have noticed a slight change in the practice of denying science but at this point the cat is out of the bag, so to speak, so the church can no longer fight the flood waters. At this point they are trying to co opt scientific study with grand announcements about how they don't disprove the bible despite not being contained in the book who's very pages say anything added to them is false. (Run on sentence, I know)