Two Examples of Why Trumps Wall Can Work, Be Built Quickly and Cheaply

[Liquid Reigns]

The size of the fence does not matter if the nearest border patrol is five or more miles away. Easy to tunnel, cut the fence or climb a ladder if there is nobody close by to stop you

Tunnels are dug from a location of cover to another location of cover. They are not digging tunnels in the middle of nowhere where drones are patrolling. The purpose of the fence is to deter entry, it has worked on California's southern border quite well, not to mention it has deterred and funneled illegal entry to other areas, making it more dangerous to cross, i.e. the desert or mountainous areas.

As to BP being 5 miles away or more, drones do have heat sensors and are able to guide BP to where the illegals are hiding.

 

[rightwinger]

The size of the fence does not matter if the nearest border patrol is five or more miles away. Easy to tunnel, cut the fence or climb a ladder if there is nobody close by to stop you

Tunnels are dug from a location of cover to another location of cover. They are not digging tunnels in the middle of nowhere where drones are patrolling. The purpose of the fence is to deter entry, it has worked on California's southern border quite well, not to mention it has deterred and funneled illegal entry to other areas, making it more dangerous to cross, i.e. the desert or mountainous areas.

As to BP being 5 miles away or more, drones do have heat sensors and are able to guide BP to where the illegals are hiding.

That is why it makes more sense to do what we are doing with drones and aircraft in remote areas than building a useless fence

 

[Wilbur Right]

WTF? You cannot distinguish between higher wages caused by a free market vrs mandated higher wages as artificially imposed by the government?

Lowest paid workers is the topic stupid.

Explain what impact a MW worker has on the economy. And how if they move up in wages, whether by MW law or supply and demand, how does that negatively impact the rest of the economy.

Simple enough for question for your brilliance.But then you think women's body stops pregnancies when raped.

When it comes to stupid, you got it going on dude.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

The size of the fence does not matter if the nearest border patrol is five or more miles away. Easy to tunnel, cut the fence or climb a ladder if there is nobody close by to stop you

Tunnels are dug from a location of cover to another location of cover. They are not digging tunnels in the middle of nowhere where drones are patrolling. The purpose of the fence is to deter entry, it has worked on California's southern border quite well, not to mention it has deterred and funneled illegal entry to other areas, making it more dangerous to cross, i.e. the desert or mountainous areas.

As to BP being 5 miles away or more, drones do have heat sensors and are able to guide BP to where the illegals are hiding.

That is why it makes more sense to do what we are doing with drones and aircraft in remote areas than building a useless fence

How is the fence useless when it has been shown to be effective and deter? A fence with natural obstacles all help to deter, it will never completely stop it no matter what is done, the whole point is to deter/limit it to a much, much smaller number so that they are more easily caught in the area.

 

[Correll]

We don't seem to be doing it well, as per the millions and millions of illegals that have crossed the border.

The number of illegals is down one million in the last three years

I have hiked in the desert near the Mexican border. When you got to the border, it was a simple wire fence, not even barbed wire. I crossed and then crossed back ...nobody was there

The barrier was not the fence, but that you had to hike about five miles once you crossed the fence to get to a road. I didn't see them, but was told their were motion sensors and other devices monitored by the border patrol

I want the number of illegals to be down about 12 million.

Unfortunately many illegals are capable of walking 5 miles.

I'll believe that the border patrol is monitoring and responding to motion sensors when the flow of illegals drops to a trickle.

The size of the fence does not matter if the nearest border patrol is five or more miles away. Easy to tunnel, cut the fence or climb a ladder if there is nobody close by to stop you

That seems obviously untrue. If you brought a 10 foot ladder and the fence is 15 feet high, it matters.


I don't think digging a tunnel would ever be "easy". If illegals had to dig tunnels to get into the US, I think that alone would greatly decrease flow.

Combine that with reduced work opportunities and mass deportations, and you start seeing a viable, effective policy. IMO.

There have been several sophisticated tunnels built in Nogales. Where there is a will, there is a way

From above.

I don't think digging a tunnel would ever be "easy". If illegals had to dig tunnels to get into the US, I think that alone would greatly decrease flow.

Combine that with reduced work opportunities and mass deportations, and you start seeing a viable, effective policy. IMO.

 

[Correll]

Way way down...... But these unaccompanied children from CA countries are pissing off my buddies at ICE.....

There's not much we can do about it except take them in. But predictions are just that. Predictions are not yet fact.

Send them home.

Let em stay.

You said there was not other options other than letting them in. Sending them home is an option and thus your previous claim was wrong.

We do have at least one other option, and it is hard to credit that you were unaware of that option.

Your hardline on this issue is unacceptable to me. Just so you know.

Your hardline on championing the interests of Mexicans and other foreigners at the expense of American citizens is unacceptable to me. Just so you know.

Send them home.

 

[pwjohn]

There's not much we can do about it except take them in. But predictions are just that. Predictions are not yet fact.

Send them home.

Let em stay.

You said there was not other options other than letting them in. Sending them home is an option and thus your previous claim was wrong.

We do have at least one other option, and it is hard to credit that you were unaware of that option.

Your hardline on this issue is unacceptable to me. Just so you know.

Your hardline on championing the interests of Mexicans and other foreigners at the expense of American citizens is unacceptable to me. Just so you know.

Send them home.

So much drama, over so little.

 

[rightwinger]

The size of the fence does not matter if the nearest border patrol is five or more miles away. Easy to tunnel, cut the fence or climb a ladder if there is nobody close by to stop you

Tunnels are dug from a location of cover to another location of cover. They are not digging tunnels in the middle of nowhere where drones are patrolling. The purpose of the fence is to deter entry, it has worked on California's southern border quite well, not to mention it has deterred and funneled illegal entry to other areas, making it more dangerous to cross, i.e. the desert or mountainous areas.

As to BP being 5 miles away or more, drones do have heat sensors and are able to guide BP to where the illegals are hiding.

That is why it makes more sense to do what we are doing with drones and aircraft in remote areas than building a useless fence

How is the fence useless when it has been shown to be effective and deter? A fence with natural obstacles all help to deter, it will never completely stop it no matter what is done, the whole point is to deter/limit it to a much, much smaller number so that they are more easily caught in the area.

A fence in the middle of twenty miles of dessert is useless

How do you stop people from climbing over it?

 

[LuckyDuck01!]

As Pashto-to-English pamphlets have been found lying on the ground along the border, I'm for repealing Posse-Comitatus, militarizing the borders, laying land mines and putting up signs saying the borders are mined. Land mines are cheaper than a wall and after a few deaths via being blown apart, the illegals will go back to legal means.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

The size of the fence does not matter if the nearest border patrol is five or more miles away. Easy to tunnel, cut the fence or climb a ladder if there is nobody close by to stop you

Tunnels are dug from a location of cover to another location of cover. They are not digging tunnels in the middle of nowhere where drones are patrolling. The purpose of the fence is to deter entry, it has worked on California's southern border quite well, not to mention it has deterred and funneled illegal entry to other areas, making it more dangerous to cross, i.e. the desert or mountainous areas.

As to BP being 5 miles away or more, drones do have heat sensors and are able to guide BP to where the illegals are hiding.

That is why it makes more sense to do what we are doing with drones and aircraft in remote areas than building a useless fence

How is the fence useless when it has been shown to be effective and deter? A fence with natural obstacles all help to deter, it will never completely stop it no matter what is done, the whole point is to deter/limit it to a much, much smaller number so that they are more easily caught in the area.

A fence in the middle of twenty miles of dessert is useless

How do you stop people from climbing over it?

Drones or seismic sensors, again the purpose of a fence is to limit intrusion, it is a deterrent just like a padlock on a cabinet, it will never completely stop everybody and nobody claims that it will. You seem to be making a Mountain out of a sand grain for dramatic purposes. The fence is already law, passed by Congress and signed by the President.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

E-Verify has issues due to the inability of employers to verify the documents when they fill out the Form I9, as has bee explained to me by several employers. In some states, as I understand it, it is actually illegal to do anything to verify the documents presented by the employee as it is deemed to be racially discriminatory.

E-verify can be done at the time the I-9 is filled out. Those employers explained it to you incorrectly. They themselves verify the documents through E-verify immediately. It is not illegal to verify the documents in any state and verifying documents is not racial discrimination.

So if the illegal has fake docs and you are almost 100% certain of it, with E-Verify there is nothing you can do but hire them.

WRONG. You inform them their documents and E-verify are not matching, you can keep the slot waiting for them to come back with corrected documents, or you can hire someone else. Just because a person fills out an I-9 doesn't mean they have to be hired or that you are hiring them.

E-verify should allow employers to verify the documents and to lodge reports to ICE on suspicious activity, improper visas, etc, and not be a binary pass-fail system.

I agree.

 

[charwin95]

There's not much we can do about it except take them in. But predictions are just that. Predictions are not yet fact.

Send them home.

Let em stay.

You said there was not other options other than letting them in. Sending them home is an option and thus your previous claim was wrong.

We do have at least one other option, and it is hard to credit that you were unaware of that option.

Your hardline on this issue is unacceptable to me. Just so you know.

Your hardline on championing the interests of Mexicans and other foreigners at the expense of American citizens is unacceptable to me. Just so you know.

Send them home.

Proceed. No one is stopping you.

 

[Flopper]

Trump said a wall, not a fence. There's a big difference. However, armed guards stop intruders where walls and fences just delay them.

Homeland Security has been seeking more funds to extend fencing a hundred miles or so, purchase drones and electronic surveillance and hire additional personnel. If we want to increase boarder security this is what we should be doing because it's working, and not building some silly 2000 mile wall that Homeland Security says it's not needed and wasteful.

There is something else going on that Trump and supporters prefer to ignore. There's a million less illegal immigrants in the US than there was 8 years ago. The number of illegal boarder crossing has now reached a 20 year low. Homeland security analysis are crediting the increase in boarder security which started some years ago and the decrease in the supply of Mexican unskilled workers.

A wall is not necessarily a stone curtain wall. A wall can be a metaphor for a system of obstacles that are manned and under constant watch.

And of course Obama Homeland Security is going to say that a 'wall' is not needed, they can fuck everything up without any new barriers.

And the low number of crossings are merely the ones caught. Not all of them are being caught or processed so of course the count is down.

Yes, a wall can be a metaphor for a lot of things, fencing, enhanced surveillance, more boots on the ground, or even laws that encourage legal entry and have stiffer penalties for illegal crossings.. However Trump has made it pretty clear that he's talking about a wall. Trump describes it as 35 to 40 feet high — a “real wall”

Boarder intrusions have always been measured based on the number apprehended. Since boarder security is far greater now than it has been over the last 20 years, it is only logical to assume that if we're catching less that we have in the pass, there are less coming into the country. I seriously doubt the Mexicans have discovered a great new method of sneaking across the boarder.

If Trump is elected, his wall will be a metaphor for what Homeland Security experts have been asking for which is not a wall. I really can't believe Trump would try to build a thousand mile or more wall ignoring the requests that comes from boarder security. Trump is not that dumb. If Trump is elected his deportation of 11 million people and building a 2,000 mile wall will be just last years campaign promises.


.

 

[Flopper]

Any wall can be breached and half of illegal immigrants crossed legally and overstayed their Visas

Why do Mexicans stay? Because it is too difficult to go back and forth

For hundreds of years, Mexicans freely crossed our border to work and then returned home when the job was over. Once we set up barriers to returning, they just would stay

Temporary work visas are more effective than walls

Curtailing those VIsas so they can't get here in the first place to overstay seems one obvious answer.

As of course E-verify to prevent them from getting jobs.

I agree

We still need Mexican immigrants. Lets make them legal and give them a temporary work visa. Force employers to e-verify. If they don't throw the employer in jail

Jobs dry up, those border crossings are not worth it

We don't need them. Or at most we need very few of them.

Do NOT give them termporary work visa.

Do force employers to e-verify.

If they don't throw the employer is jail.

The employer, if he wants to fill those openings, might have to raise wages to find someone to do the work.

That is a win for America. And Americas.

Getting tough with employers that knowingly hire illegals is a good idea. However, eliminating temporary agricultural visas, H2-A is not. Of the 2 million+ migrant workers, only about 30,000 have H2-A visas. The H2-A program is available only to employers reporting critical labor shortages. The employers must prove the shortage exist by submitting evidence including newspaper and radio advertising, to recruit U.S. workers in areas of expected labor supply. Such recruitment must be at least equivalent to that conducted by non-H-2A agricultural employers in the same or similar crops and area. The employer must agree to give preference and engage in active recruitment of U.S. workers. The result is very few employers use H2-A employees.

As the growing shortage of farm workers expands in coming years, programs such as H-2A will have to be expanded.

 

[OldLady]

I dont think a wall will be enough.
I would suggest that the danger of tunnels would still exist.
Firstly the wall needs to be wide enough to allow a railway line to run in either direction.This would help move troops around to threatened areas quickly and efficiently.

Secondly what is needed is a moat as well. Perhaps 30m deep and 100m wide.
Lifers can be used to dig this out at no charge.
If those drug dealing rapists can tunnel under all of that then they must be the right stuff and will thrive in America.

Tunneling is easily stopped.

Then why hasn't it been ? Why was El Chappo's crew building tunnels with tracks and electricity? They need to start using that archeology equipment that senses voids under the earth. BTW, if everyone wants a wall, fine. It will be a construction project that puts a lot of people to work for a while, anyway.

This is one of those stupid comments that no body understands why it is stupid...

Lets take an example of the Gaza Eygpt border with an Israeli buffer in between...

The Boarder is just 8 miles long... Isreal have a wide buffer put between....

This is big ass wall... Way bigger than trumps and only 8 miles long... With heavy patrols...

Trump wall will be a couple of thousand miles...

So lets talk about sonic equipment... It only works for about 50 ft....
Ground-penetrating radar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now that is a bit crap so gaza eygpt has loads of tunnels going in an out....

You can look at there new detection system but that works out at about $10m a mile...

So my comments are stupid because...the wall would be too big ? the tunnels can't be detected? the plan is too expensive? Seems like no one's walking over the border there, though.

 

[OldLady]

I cant post the entire article, dumb ass.

That they still get through makes you look like an idiot pimp for trump.

So cutting illegal border crossings by say eighty percent isnt a success story?
You couple strong border control with the end of all services and employment and they'll go home.

We already did all that and still they came and the reason why is out of your control. Employers lure them up here and until they stop doing that, no fence will be tall enough to stop them.

Stopping he employers will amount to a much better fence than any wall no matter the height.

Stopping the employers who hire illegals is AS important as a wall, but alone it will not stop them.

Wall Street owns congress so how do you plan on stopping them. And building the wall will not stop Wall Street from hiring illegals in large numbers.

Vote for Sanders? (Only kidding--although I suppose that's an actual answer, isn't it?)

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[OldLady]

There's not much we can do about it except take them in. But predictions are just that. Predictions are not yet fact.

Send them home.

Let em stay.

At your house?

They work hard enough to provide for themselves. Including a place to live.

They can do that in mexico.

This is really to all of the posters who keep calling all the immigrants Mexican: MOST OF THE ILLEGALS ARE COMING FROM CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA. The Mexicans have already come and settled in. I agree the Mexicans could do more to stop them, since they very openly trek across the country and hang out in border towns waiting to get smuggled across, but Mexico (understandably) doesn't want to deal with these people either, so they close their eyes and let them continue their journey. At least that's my guess. But stop imagining that all the illegal immigrants are from Mexico. A lot of them aren't even Hispanic--they're Asian.

 

[OldLady]

We don't need them. Or at most we need very few of them.

Do NOT give them termporary work visa.

Do force employers to e-verify.

If they don't throw the employer is jail.

The employer, if he wants to fill those openings, might have to raise wages to find someone to do the work.

That is a win for America. And Americas.

E-Verify has issues due to the inability of employers to verify the documents when they fill out the Form I9, as has bee explained to me by several employers. In some states, as I understand it, it is actually illegal to do anything to verify the documents presented by the employee as it is deemed to be racially discriminatory.

So if the illegal has fake docs and you are almost 100% certain of it, with E-Verify there is nothing you can do but hire them.

E-verify should allow employers to verify the documents and to lodge reports to ICE on suspicious activity, improper visas, etc, and not be a binary pass-fail system.

That's a state's issue. I had to get a certified copy of my birth certificate to prove my identity and it's pretty darned easy to tell if it's got the real seal. E-verify will work if employers do as you would suggest and NOT hire anyone with funny looking documents.

 

[OldLady]

As Pashto-to-English pamphlets have been found lying on the ground along the border, I'm for repealing Posse-Comitatus, militarizing the borders, laying land mines and putting up signs saying the borders are mined. Land mines are cheaper than a wall and after a few deaths via being blown apart, the illegals will go back to legal means.

It would never fly. First 8 year old that wanders into the zone and gets blown to bits ends your idea.