Ukraine in a nutshell and why it shouldn't matter TO YOU. Don't be baited by the media

[rightwinger]

Well, when O and Biden were busy screwing with ukraine back in 2012, overturning legal Ukraine elections, I don't disagree with Putin not wanting NATO at his border. We did the same with the bay of pigs and Cuba in the 1960s. JFK said no, you're not putting nukes at our doorstep. Putin is saying the same.

No he is not

We are not admitting Ukraine into NATO and are not deploying missiles.

Putin is invading anyway

 

[LordBrownTrout]

No he is not

We are not admitting Ukraine into NATO and are not deploying missiles.

Putin is invading anyway

Well then, biden should shut his bumbling trap then, eh?

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Why do you think we chased Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait?

So send your children and grandchildren to fight the war.

Also when we went after Saddam in early 90’s we had the blessing of many, and had the backing of many nations…

Now it is the U.N. job to authorize deployment and until then it is a resounding no, but you can feel free to sacrifice yourself, your family and friends!

 

[rightwinger]

Well then, biden should shut his bumbling trap then, eh?

With military action? No
With crippling sanctions? Absolutely

Why do Republicans support Putin?

 

[SavannahMann]

I am not defending the invasion. Just acknowledging the valid points made in the video.

The other really valid point made in the video is that the US has been involved in ethnic protection (Bosnia and Syria) and it is hypocritical to condemn others for doing the same.

First, you’re buying the narrative that spins the hell out of history. It is spinning the truth like a Taffy machine. Seriously.

First, the situation developed not because of Ethnic issues. But because of history. Ukraine has a stark reminder of what Russian guidance and oversight results in. Chernobyl is in Ukraine. It will be Radioactive when your Great Grandchildren are dead.

They saw first hand what Russian Ownership of their nation looked like. When the Ukrainian Government was trying to tighten ties to Russia, the Government fell to popular pressure. This is while Separatists were fighting in the east. Now, was this ginned up by the US? No. Was it helped by the US? Probably. I don’t think we will ever know for sure unless a lot of safes are pulled up from the bottom of the ocean. Because any files on that would have been welded into a safe, set in concrete, and dropped in the ocean.

What precipitated the start of the trouble was the President of Ukraine refusing to sign a treaty which tied Ukraine to the EU. The people wanted the economic advantages, and freedom that was evident in the West, instead of a vague promise of security from the East.

The ones who didn’t were Russian leaning folks to the East.

Now imagine if it was us. What would we do? Let’s say that a few hundred square miles of Arizona announces that they are independent, and they intend to become satellites of Mexico. What would we do? Would we be discussing ethnic issues? Would we be cheering them on? We would march in with the Army and suppress the Insurgency wouldn’t we? Oh we would blame the hell out of our political rivals, we’re stupid that way, but we wouldn’t say oh they have a right to do that.

If you don’t like it here, leave. Isn’t that what the RW says all the time?

Russia had and continues to have a valid point. Their naval base on the Crimean Peninsula. Ownership of that was always going to be Russian. I’m realistic enough to admit that.

The Government fell, because the people wanted closer ties to the West, not the East.

So what could be charitably called a Civil War, which was nothing but a continuation of Russian Expansionist policy evidenced by the actions in Belorussia. Where Mother Russia keeps a close eye on them and their activities.

Now, it is about Ethnic Activity. It’s spin. That’s all. It is not about ethnic anything. The Ukrainians were not rounding up the Ethnic Russians and doing anything. They were not subjecting these people to any hardship or hostility.

It is a lamed assed excuse, spun out there as part of the obvious disinformation campaign right out of the old Soviet playbook.

But even if you want to take that route. Remember World War One was fired up because Russia under the Czar set out to protect Ethnic Slavs. Austria and Germany set out to protect themselves from the Slavs. France had a treaty to protect Russia if Germany went to war.

Everyone wanted War. And once it appeared, everyone was so excited that they would be able to teach their enemies a lesson once and for all.

The Soviets used the same excuses when sending troops here and there. Or the troops of the minions. Cubans in the Congo. Remember that? What interest did Cuba have in the Congo? None except spreading the joys of Communism.

North Korea went south because Stalin approved it. The war kept going because Stalin would not consider losing.

Time and again, it was expansionist policies of the Soviets, the Russians, who did this. And who is in charge today? One of those plotters who worked in the KGB to figure out how to bring the West down. Lies and justifications that would be vomited up by his own people, are swallowed with joy by those who hate Biden. Not because these excuses are true, they aren’t. But because anything that happens to harm my enemy, is a good thing is the attitude that we have taken on.

It’s wrong when the Democrats do it. I’ve said so. It’s wrong when the Right does it. I’m saying so again.

If we act now, we might be able to avoid World War III. If we act now. If we don’t then number three is a certainty. That is what I am seeing, and nobody is saying I’m wrong.

Because everyone knows that Putin will not stop in Ukraine. But they hope to use that to get their side elected again. To make the other side so weak and inept that they can win the elections. After that, perhaps Trump or whoever is elected will work a miracle and avoid the war, but if not, it’s better that our side is in charge than their side.

I understand that you doubt the Democrats, and the MSM. But read the history again, and see if the excuses today, make any sense based upon the reports of the time. Because they make no sense what so ever if you remember the events as they happened.

Oh, and for the record. I honestly believe that Hillary helped gin up the pro west attitude in Ukraine. I’ve said so before. But that fire was fanned, not started, by us. It is the desire for freedom, and capitalist opportunity that ignited that flame.

 

[forkup]

The point of that part of the video was that given all bad shit that Hitler did the fact that he took a relatively small amount of land to protect ethnic Germans was not near the top of the list. The really bad shit was just about everything else he did. He didn't invade France, Poland or Russia to protect ethnic Germans. He didn't do mass exterminations to protect ethnic Germans. He didn't bomb the UK to protect ethnic Germans.

He annex Austria but the Austrians kinda wanted it. He took the Sudenland mostly with the blessing of the West.

Not trying to defend the sonofabitch but Putin, being as much of an asshole as he is, still has a long way to go to be Hitler and the comparison that we are seeing is unfounded rhetoric.

Is that how you should measure the actions of one of the most barbaric people in history? By going by the worst atrocities they committed? In fact, the fact that you are actually defending annexing countries as something that isn't that bad in the scheme of things should tell you something?

We aren't talking about some friendly negotiation. We are talking about the forceful attack of one nation of another.

What the West did in regards to the Sudetenland was absolutely horrendous. They at least did it in order to get a treaty (worthless as it proved to be) from Hitler. Promising he would make no further territorial claims. You guys all seem to be suggesting just accepting Putin's demand without so much as that hollow promise.

By the way the Sudetenland was German speaking but not ethnically German.

As for comparing Putin to Hitler. They are dangerous for the same reason. Both feel the military is a perfectly valid means to get what they want. Both don't give a rats ass about previous treaties. Both are absolutely ruthless when dealing with anyone who doesn't agree with them. And both are willing to risk open war.

The difference is Hitler didn't have nukes. Putin does.

 

[Dragonlady]

Yeah, well this is what happens when you have an incompetent invalid going up against someone like putin. If biden keeps up his dog barking we"ll be in.a nuclear shooting match.

The "incompetent invalid" who couldn't handle Putin is down in Mar-a-Lago making an ass of himself and scamming the public.

Putin's ass is in a sling. He's done the dumbest thing in his life, and completely underestimated NATO. What I don't understand is why all you members of the Trump Cult are cheering for Putin. Are you really that STUPID??????

 

[AlexanderPK]

Correct, a FORMER, Russian state.

One that gave up its nuclear arsenal to Russia on the express promise it would be guaranteed independence.

One that has a Democratically elected government.

One that has extensive ties to NATO and the EU.

One that is a sovereign State, recognised as such by the entire world.

One that is now being threatened with destruction and massive loss of life.


It matters because it signals if successful that national borders don't mean anything if someone is willing to use sufficient force to ignore them.

What credibility to have a willingness to stop, lets say China from invading Taiwan does the West have if they don't react now?

It matters because not reacting is tantamount the saying to the world, that nobody will help the weaker nations against the stronger one's.

We've been in this position before. The cost of it was measured in millions of innocent lives. Today's weaponry would make it billions if not everyone.

Do you know that Russia took the USSR national debt too, freeing the FORMER republics from paying their not a small share?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The "incompetent invalid" who couldn't handle Putin is down in Mar-a-Lago making an ass of himself and scamming the public.

Putin's ass is in a sling. He's done the dumbest thing in his life, and completely underestimated NATO. What I don't understand is why all you members of the Trump Cult are cheering for Putin. Are you really that STUPID??????

NATO will do nothing and the US will do nothing. It was NATO and the US who meddled in ukraine. They are to blame.

 

[Dragonlady]

First, you’re buying the narrative that spins the hell out of history. It is spinning the truth like a Taffy machine. Seriously.

First, the situation developed not because of Ethnic issues. But because of history. Ukraine has a stark reminder of what Russian guidance and oversight results in. Chernobyl is in Ukraine. It will be Radioactive when your Great Grandchildren are dead.

They saw first hand what Russian Ownership of their nation looked like. When the Ukrainian Government was trying to tighten ties to Russia, the Government fell to popular pressure. This is while Separatists were fighting in the east. Now, was this ginned up by the US? No. Was it helped by the US? Probably. I don’t think we will ever know for sure unless a lot of safes are pulled up from the bottom of the ocean. Because any files on that would have been welded into a safe, set in concrete, and dropped in the ocean.

What precipitated the start of the trouble was the President of Ukraine refusing to sign a treaty which tied Ukraine to the EU. The people wanted the economic advantages, and freedom that was evident in the West, instead of a vague promise of security from the East.

The ones who didn’t were Russian leaning folks to the East.

Now imagine if it was us. What would we do? Let’s say that a few hundred square miles of Arizona announces that they are independent, and they intend to become satellites of Mexico. What would we do? Would we be discussing ethnic issues? Would we be cheering them on? We would march in with the Army and suppress the Insurgency wouldn’t we? Oh we would blame the hell out of our political rivals, we’re stupid that way, but we wouldn’t say oh they have a right to do that.

If you don’t like it here, leave. Isn’t that what the RW says all the time?

Russia had and continues to have a valid point. Their naval base on the Crimean Peninsula. Ownership of that was always going to be Russian. I’m realistic enough to admit that.

The Government fell, because the people wanted closer ties to the West, not the East.

So what could be charitably called a Civil War, which was nothing but a continuation of Russian Expansionist policy evidenced by the actions in Belorussia. Where Mother Russia keeps a close eye on them and their activities.

Now, it is about Ethnic Activity. It’s spin. That’s all. It is not about ethnic anything. The Ukrainians were not rounding up the Ethnic Russians and doing anything. They were not subjecting these people to any hardship or hostility.

It is a lamed assed excuse, spun out there as part of the obvious disinformation campaign right out of the old Soviet playbook.

But even if you want to take that route. Remember World War One was fired up because Russia under the Czar set out to protect Ethnic Slavs. Austria and Germany set out to protect themselves from the Slavs. France had a treaty to protect Russia if Germany went to war.

Everyone wanted War. And once it appeared, everyone was so excited that they would be able to teach their enemies a lesson once and for all.

The Soviets used the same excuses when sending troops here and there. Or the troops of the minions. Cubans in the Congo. Remember that? What interest did Cuba have in the Congo? None except spreading the joys of Communism.

North Korea went south because Stalin approved it. The war kept going because Stalin would not consider losing.

Time and again, it was expansionist policies of the Soviets, the Russians, who did this. And who is in charge today? One of those plotters who worked in the KGB to figure out how to bring the West down. Lies and justifications that would be vomited up by his own people, are swallowed with joy by those who hate Biden. Not because these excuses are true, they aren’t. But because anything that happens to harm my enemy, is a good thing is the attitude that we have taken on.

It’s wrong when the Democrats do it. I’ve said so. It’s wrong when the Right does it. I’m saying so again.

If we act now, we might be able to avoid World War III. If we act now. If we don’t then number three is a certainty. That is what I am seeing, and nobody is saying I’m wrong.

Because everyone knows that Putin will not stop in Ukraine. But they hope to use that to get their side elected again. To make the other side so weak and inept that they can win the elections. After that, perhaps Trump or whoever is elected will work a miracle and avoid the war, but if not, it’s better that our side is in charge than their side.

I understand that you doubt the Democrats, and the MSM. But read the history again, and see if the excuses today, make any sense based upon the reports of the time. Because they make no sense what so ever if you remember the events as they happened.

Oh, and for the record. I honestly believe that Hillary helped gin up the pro west attitude in Ukraine. I’ve said so before. But that fire was fanned, not started, by us. It is the desire for freedom, and capitalist opportunity that ignited that flame.

RUSSIA HAS NO VALID POINT. THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE VOTED FOR LIBERTY AND TO JOIN NATO.

PUTIN DOESN'T WANT A THRIVING DEMOCRACY ON HIS DOORSTEP. IT WILL ENCOURAGE THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE TO DUMP HIS ASS.

PUTIN IS IN TROUBLE AT HOME, AND HE'S TRYING TO WAG THE DOG HERE.

WHY ARE YOU PROMOTING HIS LIES AND BULLSHIT? PUTIN IS YOUR ENEMY, NOT YOUR ALLY.

 

[Dragonlady]

NATO will do nothing and the US will do nothing. It was NATO and the US who meddled in ukraine. They are to blame.

NATO has already reunited, cancelled Putin's pipeline, and cut the Russians off from the banking system.

Interesting how you're always ready to side with the Russians. Why is that? Why are you siding with Putin who has sworn to destroy the USA?????

 

[Rogue AI]

When Russian soldiers are killing, raping and looting their way across Ukraine it's going to be a struggle for these people to maintain this hands off attitude. By then it will be too late to do anything about it. The right is being played and they just can't see it yet.

Apparently if sanctions don't stop, your boy Biden doesn't care either. You folks have already been played and just keep doubling down on stupid. Time for Biden to call it a day before he fucks it up more.

 

[rightwinger]

NATO will do nothing and the US will do nothing. It was NATO and the US who meddled in ukraine. They are to blame.

Ukraine made it clear that they would rather align militarily and economically with the West

Putin and US Republicans had a fit

 

[SavannahMann]

RUSSIA HAS NO VALID POINT. THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE VOTED FOR LIBERTY AND TO JOIN NATO.

PUTIN DOESN'T WANT A THRIVING DEMOCRACY ON HIS DOORSTEP. IT WILL ENCOURAGE THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE TO DUMP HIS ASS.

PUTIN IS IN TROUBLE AT HOME, AND HE'S TRYING TO WAG THE DOG HERE.

WHY ARE YOU PROMOTING HIS LIES AND BULLSHIT? PUTIN IS YOUR ENEMY, NOT YOUR ALLY.

The only point I conceded was valid was the naval base. There is no way in hell that Russia will give up their base in the Crimean Peninsula. We won’t give up Guantanamo Bay. We can’t seriously expect Russia to give up their largest base in the Black Sea.

A deal could have been worked out for that base.

That is not buying the point. That is realistic. Russia would go to war over the base. So would we if it was ours.

I refuted the argument that it was based upon ethic protections. I pointed out that excuse was historic and false. I clearly said that the entire thing was precipitated by a desire of the people for freedom.

 

[AntonToo]

Do you know that Russia took the USSR national debt too, freeing the FORMER republics from paying their not a small share?

And do you know that Russia signed an agreement with Ukraine in 1994 that if they give up their nuclear arm that Russia will respect their sovereignty?

Clearly Russia shit on those promises and is now telling Ukraine it has no right to be a country. SURPRISE!

But you got ahead and tell us stories about how nice Russia is.

 

[jc456]

I laid out my feelings a few days ago in another thread then Tucker dropped this gem last night.

A perfect synopsis of what I tried to say the other day.

but we can't defend our own country at the south border?

 

[jc456]

I laid out my feelings a few days ago in another thread then Tucker dropped this gem last night.

A perfect synopsis of what I tried to say the other day.

Pamela Harris looks like she's wearing a feed bag over her mouth. hahahahahahahahahaha I was laughing far too hard.

 

[jc456]

Lying, being contrary entertains people. They are driven by market share.

again with the rhetoric without support. what lie? name the lie, articulate it for us.

Oh wait, you're saying xiden and harris lied? damn straight they have. They are useless pawns owned by Putin. Putin is ready to shut down our economy and xiden and harris are letting him do it. Who's working for Putin?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

NATO has already reunited, cancelled Putin's pipeline, and cut the Russians off from the banking system.

Interesting how you're always ready to side with the Russians. Why is that? Why are you siding with Putin who has sworn to destroy the USA?????

NATO is a weak stick. Russia doesn't care about sanctions. Our government is complicit in its hypocrisy.

 

[AntonToo]

Russia doesn't care about sanctions.

Thats the dumbest thing I've read this week. Congrats.