Universal Healthcare - will not work in the US

[Polishprince]

EVERYONE will have access to affordable insurance. Do you have a problem with that?

"affordable" is a subjective term. Anything is affordable if you prioritize it, and it isn't if your don't. I don't think expensive brands of beer like Heineken are affordable at all, even though there are people a lot worse off than me drinking Heineken every day.

 

[francoHFW]

The ideas that the healthy have to buy insurance to pay for the sick? Pass....

Unfortunately...it's kind of how insurance works...IF you want low premiums and pre-existing conditions covered.

How about punishing those that are fat and smoke and drink and don’t exercise instead of taking my money to pay for their poor choices?

Because I don't think people should be "punished" beyond the punishment already inflicted by their diseases. The causes of diseases like addiction and obesity are complex. I know my insurance offers a discount in premiums if you don't smoke and practice a healthy life style. I have no problem with that. But too many pre-existing conditions aren't in the person's control, and they need healthcare. Punishing them makes no sense - it won't change the condition, it will only place a greater burden on society.

I am more about prevention. If someone with Type 2 diabetes has affordable insurance then he can afford to address his condition in ways that reduce damage further on, prevent serious issues that might keep him from working. If he can't afford insurance, then it is more likely the only medical care he will receive will be in the ER by which time there is a lot more damage to health and it's very expensive.

Healthcare is a very complex issue - I prefer to educate, prevent, and treat at early stages where possible rather than punish. Illness is punishment enough and illness isn't always a result of "bad choices".

a lot of those bad choices come from not having a doctor to tell you what to do or what is going on.

You don’t need a doctor to tell you that drinking beer and eating Burger King every day is unhealthy. It takes common sense.

Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people. At any rate universal Health Care is only possible if you cover everyone. People with pre-existing conditions will never get covered without it. It's called civilization you GOP people should try it.... Okay you non-Democratic people. You all are in on some portion of the GOP scam brainwash.

 

[Vandalshandle]

We need a public option that would over time finish off private for-profit insurers. But mandates are a bad idea if you want to win an election.

If universal health care is implemented, adverse selection is guaranteed if you don't insure 100% of the population. Adverse selection causes spiraling costs, and ends with only an uninsurable population. The only reason why Medicare works is that you may not opt out of it.

Yet just about every other country has that option. Odd. You talk in circles.

What the hell is adverse selection? Anyway there is so much waste in our system it is ridiculous.

"Adverse selection" was the entire reason for my 50 year career in health insurance. In a nutshell, it means that, given the option to decline insurance, the healthy people who do not have claims will opt out, and the chronically ill will remain insured, with the result that the insured population ends up being a group of uninsurable people who will bankrupt the plan. My job, as VP of Underwriting, was to decline groups that were going to cost the insurer more money than they would pay in premium. I promise you that if you worked for Mel's Automotive Repair, and the brake mechanic's wife was waiting for a heart transplant, Mel would never find an insurance company to cover them, until that auto mechanic was no longer employed there. Three cheers for private enterprise!

Why was that employee not insured before the wife needed the transplant? That’s like asking to buy auto insurance after the auto accident occurred. It doesn’t make sense.

It happens all the time. I see it here on the board regularly. Pick any one of the following.

1. The employer only pays for employee coverage. The employee does not elect to cover his wife because she is healthy (until the heart attack)
2. Same thing, but the employee does not cover the wife because she had her own coverage with her employer (until she had her heart attack, and lost her job)
3. The employee just married the wife, and for reasons on his own, did not enroll her during the "open enrollment period" during which 30 day period, she would have been guaranteed issue.
4. The wife was employed and had coverage, but with a lifetime maximum of $1,000,000, so she felt that she did not need secondary coverage, but found out that a heart transplant runs around $1,500,000, or even $3,000,000 if it is a heart, lung transplant.

I could list other reasons. The real issue is that at annual renewal, I am going to raise the premium for the company to a level that they can not afford, so that Mel will cancel our coverage, if wife transplant patient is still eligible. At this point, Mel and all of his employees and dependents are SOL, because small employers are required to have health statements for all applicants. There is a company named Medical Information Bureau that collects health information on anyone in the US. Every time you fill out a health questionnaire, you agree to the fine print that all information may be shared with M.I.B. Insures use this information to see if applicants lied on their health statements. If they did, the insurer rescinds coverage and returns premiums. This is health care in America.

 

[Polishprince]

Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people. At any rate universal Health Care is only possible if you cover everyone. People with pre-existing conditions will never get covered without it. It's called civilization you GOP people should try it.... Okay you non-Democratic people. You all are in on some portion of the GOP scam brainwash.

"Everyone is covered" is the exact definition of the word "universal health care".

"Universal" implies "everyone".


However, universal health care isn't needed, because a lot of people don't need health care at all or need very little.

And you can still provide it to those who do need it, even if you aren't providing it to those who don't.

 

[francoHFW]

Actually that is the way Obamacare works also. to take care of pre-existing conditions that has to be that way.

You know I think Americans are the most difficult people possible. And suckers.... LOL. Except for good Democrats of course, socialists to be succinct. People who want Fair capitalism with a good safety net and always democratic.

Americans are also conspiracy nut jobs especially of course the dupes. of course this is a low point, just like the one in England where the right-wingers are frothing. Just the kind of thing that happens after a corrupt GOP World depression. Even if it seems when the worst effects have been averted with huge debt in the modern world. Like Obama's debt that was basically all about bailouts and unemployment and welfare for the victims....


I need a year off from this idiocy LOL. Perfect my English history, French pronunciation, Spanish language and Zen....

But it doesn't make sense. It it illogical IMO.

Every working health Care system in the world depends on giving everyone the same deal or else you lose half the people LOL adverse selection!

So just because they are wrong we should be wrong too? I agree our system is broken but I dont want to pay more so that people who make poor lifestyle choices get their dose of meds and treatment.

the main reason you pay too much is because insurance companies gouge everyone along with Hospital doctors drugmakers. What a scam. Everyone else pays about half what we do and they live longer. You are such an independent thinker you are an idiot. Perfect GOP voter LOL

I am Unenrolled. I will Happily vote for Tulsi Gabbard. I was polite but since you became an asshole here it goes. We live a little less because we are the fattest country, we drive the most miles and we have a prevalent drug culture. You need to get your head out of your fat, parasitic ass. You called me a GOP sycophant like 1000x. Does that make your uneducated ass feel better? You need to check yourself because you’re making a fool out of yourself yet again. Tell me, is Tulsi Gabbard a Republican? You waste of space, parasite.

I am happily retired and Tulsi is a dupe to some extent. Nothing has ever been proved against Hillary, it's just garbage propaganda 25 years of it.

If you don't vote Democratic, you are misinformed by the GOP propaganda machine directly or indirectly and so is she. You don't have to be a traitor to be a Russian asset. All you have to do is run against the Democratic candidate. At this point. What a gigantic mess your GOP misinformation have produced. The Big Orange conman for one thing. The obstruction and sabotage of fair capitalism for 30 to 35 years now....

 

[Vandalshandle]

Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people. At any rate universal Health Care is only possible if you cover everyone. People with pre-existing conditions will never get covered without it. It's called civilization you GOP people should try it.... Okay you non-Democratic people. You all are in on some portion of the GOP scam brainwash.

"Everyone is covered" is the exact definition of the word "universal health care".

"Universal" implies "everyone".


However, universal health care isn't needed, because a lot of people don't need health care at all or need very little.

And you can still provide it to those who do need it, even if you aren't providing it to those who don't.

And here we have the exact example of what I am talking about in post 383. Another person who 'does not need insurance", at least until the congestive heart failure kicks in.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

If universal health care is implemented, adverse selection is guaranteed if you don't insure 100% of the population. Adverse selection causes spiraling costs, and ends with only an uninsurable population. The only reason why Medicare works is that you may not opt out of it.

Yet just about every other country has that option. Odd. You talk in circles.

What the hell is adverse selection? Anyway there is so much waste in our system it is ridiculous.

"Adverse selection" was the entire reason for my 50 year career in health insurance. In a nutshell, it means that, given the option to decline insurance, the healthy people who do not have claims will opt out, and the chronically ill will remain insured, with the result that the insured population ends up being a group of uninsurable people who will bankrupt the plan. My job, as VP of Underwriting, was to decline groups that were going to cost the insurer more money than they would pay in premium. I promise you that if you worked for Mel's Automotive Repair, and the brake mechanic's wife was waiting for a heart transplant, Mel would never find an insurance company to cover them, until that auto mechanic was no longer employed there. Three cheers for private enterprise!

Why was that employee not insured before the wife needed the transplant? That’s like asking to buy auto insurance after the auto accident occurred. It doesn’t make sense.

It happens all the time. I see it here on the board regularly. Pick any one of the following.

1. The employer only pays for employee coverage. The employee does not elect to cover his wife because she is healthy (until the heart attack)
2. Same thing, but the employee does not cover the wife because she had her own coverage with her employer (until she had her heart attack, and lost her job)
3. The employee just married the wife, and for reasons on his own, did not enroll her during the "open enrollment period" during which 30 day period, she would have been guaranteed issue.
4. The wife was employed and had coverage, but with a lifetime maximum of $1,000,000, so she felt that she did not need secondary coverage, but found out that a heart transplant runs around $1,500,000, or even $3,000,000 if it is a heart, lung transplant.

I could list other reasons. The real issue is that at annual renewal, I am going to raise the premium for the company to a level that they can not afford, so that Mel will cancel our coverage, if wife transplant patient is still eligible. At this point, Mel and all of his employees and dependents are SOL, because small employers are required to have health statements for all applicants. There is a company named Medical Information Bureau that collects health information on anyone in the US. Every time you fill out a health questionnaire, you agree to the fine print that all information may be shared with M.I.B. Insures use this information to see if applicants lied on their health statements. If they did, the insurer rescinds coverage and returns premiums. This is health care in America.

I agree the system is broken but insurance is a critical component. You would not drive without car insurance why would you live without health insurance? Doesn’t make sense.

 

[francoHFW]

Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people. At any rate universal Health Care is only possible if you cover everyone. People with pre-existing conditions will never get covered without it. It's called civilization you GOP people should try it.... Okay you non-Democratic people. You all are in on some portion of the GOP scam brainwash.

"Everyone is covered" is the exact definition of the word "universal health care".

"Universal" implies "everyone".


However, universal health care isn't needed, because a lot of people don't need health care at all or need very little.

And you can still provide it to those who do need it, even if you aren't providing it to those who don't.

The incredible stubbornness of the ignorant chumps of the greedy idiot GOP rich. Unbelievable. Everyone needs a doctor.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

But it doesn't make sense. It it illogical IMO.

Every working health Care system in the world depends on giving everyone the same deal or else you lose half the people LOL adverse selection!

So just because they are wrong we should be wrong too? I agree our system is broken but I dont want to pay more so that people who make poor lifestyle choices get their dose of meds and treatment.

the main reason you pay too much is because insurance companies gouge everyone along with Hospital doctors drugmakers. What a scam. Everyone else pays about half what we do and they live longer. You are such an independent thinker you are an idiot. Perfect GOP voter LOL

I am Unenrolled. I will Happily vote for Tulsi Gabbard. I was polite but since you became an asshole here it goes. We live a little less because we are the fattest country, we drive the most miles and we have a prevalent drug culture. You need to get your head out of your fat, parasitic ass. You called me a GOP sycophant like 1000x. Does that make your uneducated ass feel better? You need to check yourself because you’re making a fool out of yourself yet again. Tell me, is Tulsi Gabbard a Republican? You waste of space, parasite.

I am happily retired and Tulsi is a dupe to some extent. Nothing has ever been proved against Hillary, it's just garbage propaganda 25 years of it.

If you don't vote Democratic, you are misinformed by the GOP propaganda machine directly or indirectly and so is she. You don't have to be a traitor to be a Russian asset. All you have to do is run against the Democratic candidate. At this point. What a gigantic mess your GOP misinformation have produced. The Big Orange conman for one thing. The obstruction and sabotage of fair capitalism for 30 to 35 years now....

You’re happily an asshole. “My GOP”? Until you learn to read, conversing with you is pointless. HRC is a corrupt loser. The fact that you cannot see that is mind boggling.

 

[Rustic]

Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people. At any rate universal Health Care is only possible if you cover everyone. People with pre-existing conditions will never get covered without it. It's called civilization you GOP people should try it.... Okay you non-Democratic people. You all are in on some portion of the GOP scam brainwash.

"Everyone is covered" is the exact definition of the word "universal health care".

"Universal" implies "everyone".


However, universal health care isn't needed, because a lot of people don't need health care at all or need very little.

And you can still provide it to those who do need it, even if you aren't providing it to those who don't.

The incredible stubbornness of the ignorant chumps of the greedy idiot GOP rich. Unbelievable. Everyone needs a doctor.

It be much better if people took care of their own shit… Fuck the collective

 

[francoHFW]

Yet just about every other country has that option. Odd. You talk in circles.

What the hell is adverse selection? Anyway there is so much waste in our system it is ridiculous.

"Adverse selection" was the entire reason for my 50 year career in health insurance. In a nutshell, it means that, given the option to decline insurance, the healthy people who do not have claims will opt out, and the chronically ill will remain insured, with the result that the insured population ends up being a group of uninsurable people who will bankrupt the plan. My job, as VP of Underwriting, was to decline groups that were going to cost the insurer more money than they would pay in premium. I promise you that if you worked for Mel's Automotive Repair, and the brake mechanic's wife was waiting for a heart transplant, Mel would never find an insurance company to cover them, until that auto mechanic was no longer employed there. Three cheers for private enterprise!

Why was that employee not insured before the wife needed the transplant? That’s like asking to buy auto insurance after the auto accident occurred. It doesn’t make sense.

It happens all the time. I see it here on the board regularly. Pick any one of the following.

1. The employer only pays for employee coverage. The employee does not elect to cover his wife because she is healthy (until the heart attack)
2. Same thing, but the employee does not cover the wife because she had her own coverage with her employer (until she had her heart attack, and lost her job)
3. The employee just married the wife, and for reasons on his own, did not enroll her during the "open enrollment period" during which 30 day period, she would have been guaranteed issue.
4. The wife was employed and had coverage, but with a lifetime maximum of $1,000,000, so she felt that she did not need secondary coverage, but found out that a heart transplant runs around $1,500,000, or even $3,000,000 if it is a heart, lung transplant.

I could list other reasons. The real issue is that at annual renewal, I am going to raise the premium for the company to a level that they can not afford, so that Mel will cancel our coverage, if wife transplant patient is still eligible. At this point, Mel and all of his employees and dependents are SOL, because small employers are required to have health statements for all applicants. There is a company named Medical Information Bureau that collects health information on anyone in the US. Every time you fill out a health questionnaire, you agree to the fine print that all information may be shared with M.I.B. Insures use this information to see if applicants lied on their health statements. If they did, the insurer rescinds coverage and returns premiums. This is health care in America.

I agree the system is broken but insurance is a critical component. You would not drive without car insurance why would you live without health insurance? Doesn’t make sense.

Because you can't afford it because you have a GOP non-system?

 

[francoHFW]

Every working health Care system in the world depends on giving everyone the same deal or else you lose half the people LOL adverse selection!

So just because they are wrong we should be wrong too? I agree our system is broken but I dont want to pay more so that people who make poor lifestyle choices get their dose of meds and treatment.

the main reason you pay too much is because insurance companies gouge everyone along with Hospital doctors drugmakers. What a scam. Everyone else pays about half what we do and they live longer. You are such an independent thinker you are an idiot. Perfect GOP voter LOL

I am Unenrolled. I will Happily vote for Tulsi Gabbard. I was polite but since you became an asshole here it goes. We live a little less because we are the fattest country, we drive the most miles and we have a prevalent drug culture. You need to get your head out of your fat, parasitic ass. You called me a GOP sycophant like 1000x. Does that make your uneducated ass feel better? You need to check yourself because you’re making a fool out of yourself yet again. Tell me, is Tulsi Gabbard a Republican? You waste of space, parasite.

I am happily retired and Tulsi is a dupe to some extent. Nothing has ever been proved against Hillary, it's just garbage propaganda 25 years of it.

If you don't vote Democratic, you are misinformed by the GOP propaganda machine directly or indirectly and so is she. You don't have to be a traitor to be a Russian asset. All you have to do is run against the Democratic candidate. At this point. What a gigantic mess your GOP misinformation have produced. The Big Orange conman for one thing. The obstruction and sabotage of fair capitalism for 30 to 35 years now....

You’re happily an asshole. “My GOP”? Until you learn to read, conversing with you is pointless. HRC is a corrupt loser. The fact that you cannot see that is mind boggling.

You believe a gigantic pile of GOP propaganda super duper. And you don't sound like a Democrat to me LOL you sound like a typical idiot GOP voter.it is 73% Trump where I live and they are lovely people but they have no idea what they are talking about politically. Just like you. LOL

 

[Cellblock2429]

1. Too many people are ingrained with private insurance.
2. Education is not free. Becoming a doctor is expensive, they want to get paid and pay off potential student loans. Working for the Gov't does not do that.
3. Private pay provides better care. Even in Europe, the wealthy go that route.
4. Most logical people (on both sides of the aisle) agree with #1 and #2 and #3.

Candidates Who Attacked Warren Over 'Medicare For All' Draw Massive Fundraising Boost

Our system sucks and repubs have nothing to offer. We will likely get universal healthcare eventually. Other countries have shown it can be much cheaper.

Did other countries have ingrained private health plans? No. I don't see it happening until education costs go down significantly.

Yes the insurance industry loves to rob us, Our system is not good, something will change and repubs offer nothing.

/——/ How about Tort Reform?

 

[francoHFW]

Every working health Care system in the world depends on giving everyone the same deal or else you lose half the people LOL adverse selection!

So just because they are wrong we should be wrong too? I agree our system is broken but I dont want to pay more so that people who make poor lifestyle choices get their dose of meds and treatment.

the main reason you pay too much is because insurance companies gouge everyone along with Hospital doctors drugmakers. What a scam. Everyone else pays about half what we do and they live longer. You are such an independent thinker you are an idiot. Perfect GOP voter LOL

I am Unenrolled. I will Happily vote for Tulsi Gabbard. I was polite but since you became an asshole here it goes. We live a little less because we are the fattest country, we drive the most miles and we have a prevalent drug culture. You need to get your head out of your fat, parasitic ass. You called me a GOP sycophant like 1000x. Does that make your uneducated ass feel better? You need to check yourself because you’re making a fool out of yourself yet again. Tell me, is Tulsi Gabbard a Republican? You waste of space, parasite.

I am happily retired and Tulsi is a dupe to some extent. Nothing has ever been proved against Hillary, it's just garbage propaganda 25 years of it.

If you don't vote Democratic, you are misinformed by the GOP propaganda machine directly or indirectly and so is she. You don't have to be a traitor to be a Russian asset. All you have to do is run against the Democratic candidate. At this point. What a gigantic mess your GOP misinformation have produced. The Big Orange conman for one thing. The obstruction and sabotage of fair capitalism for 30 to 35 years now....

You’re happily an asshole. “My GOP”? Until you learn to read, conversing with you is pointless. HRC is a corrupt loser. The fact that you cannot see that is mind boggling.

Your GOP misinformation, brainwashed functional moron. No matter how you got it. I caramba. So you believe in guilty until proven innocent? So you are in the Lynch mob.

 

[francoHFW]

1. Too many people are ingrained with private insurance.
2. Education is not free. Becoming a doctor is expensive, they want to get paid and pay off potential student loans. Working for the Gov't does not do that.
3. Private pay provides better care. Even in Europe, the wealthy go that route.
4. Most logical people (on both sides of the aisle) agree with #1 and #2 and #3.

Candidates Who Attacked Warren Over 'Medicare For All' Draw Massive Fundraising Boost

Our system sucks and repubs have nothing to offer. We will likely get universal healthcare eventually. Other countries have shown it can be much cheaper.

Did other countries have ingrained private health plans? No. I don't see it happening until education costs go down significantly.

Yes the insurance industry loves to rob us, Our system is not good, something will change and repubs offer nothing.

/——/ How about Tort Reform?

Malpractice is less than 1% of Health costs. Brainwashed super duper.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Unfortunately...it's kind of how insurance works...IF you want low premiums and pre-existing conditions covered.

How about punishing those that are fat and smoke and drink and don’t exercise instead of taking my money to pay for their poor choices?

Because I don't think people should be "punished" beyond the punishment already inflicted by their diseases. The causes of diseases like addiction and obesity are complex. I know my insurance offers a discount in premiums if you don't smoke and practice a healthy life style. I have no problem with that. But too many pre-existing conditions aren't in the person's control, and they need healthcare. Punishing them makes no sense - it won't change the condition, it will only place a greater burden on society.

I am more about prevention. If someone with Type 2 diabetes has affordable insurance then he can afford to address his condition in ways that reduce damage further on, prevent serious issues that might keep him from working. If he can't afford insurance, then it is more likely the only medical care he will receive will be in the ER by which time there is a lot more damage to health and it's very expensive.

Healthcare is a very complex issue - I prefer to educate, prevent, and treat at early stages where possible rather than punish. Illness is punishment enough and illness isn't always a result of "bad choices".

I am all for being proactive vs reactive but if you’re a poor driver you pay more for insurance. I dont like exercising and going to the gym but I do because I know how important that is. I should pay less than some lazy fat ass. It works for life insurance why not for health insurance? If you got diabetes as a kid then it sucks and we should treat you but if you got it as an adult due to poor lifestyle choices then it’s on you.

Driving is a lot more black and white. It's easy to pin point an at-fault accident. It isn't so easy to pin point the cause of obesity. People can choose not to drive.

People can't choose not to get sick and when they do - they need and imo have a right to, medical care.

People may choose how they eat and exercise.

So as long as you take good care of yourself you're assured of not getting sick?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

EVERYONE will have access to affordable insurance. Do you have a problem with that?

"affordable" is a subjective term. Anything is affordable if you prioritize it, and it isn't if your don't. I don't think expensive brands of beer like Heineken are affordable at all, even though there are people a lot worse off than me drinking Heineken every day.

No it's not subjective:

Affordable | Definition of Affordable by Merriam-Webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/affordable
Affordable definition is - able to be afforded : having a cost that is not too high. How to use affordable in a sentence.

If someone must forgo other necessities to get insurance or care it is not affordable. Period.

 

[Polishprince]

Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people. At any rate universal Health Care is only possible if you cover everyone. People with pre-existing conditions will never get covered without it. It's called civilization you GOP people should try it.... Okay you non-Democratic people. You all are in on some portion of the GOP scam brainwash.

"Everyone is covered" is the exact definition of the word "universal health care".

"Universal" implies "everyone".


However, universal health care isn't needed, because a lot of people don't need health care at all or need very little.

And you can still provide it to those who do need it, even if you aren't providing it to those who don't.

The incredible stubbornness of the ignorant chumps of the greedy idiot GOP rich. Unbelievable. Everyone needs a doctor.

My grandfather didn't go to a doctor once between 1908 and 1968.

 

[Polishprince]

EVERYONE will have access to affordable insurance. Do you have a problem with that?

"affordable" is a subjective term. Anything is affordable if you prioritize it, and it isn't if your don't. I don't think expensive brands of beer like Heineken are affordable at all, even though there are people a lot worse off than me drinking Heineken every day.

No it's not subjective:

Affordable | Definition of Affordable by Merriam-Webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/affordable
Affordable definition is - able to be afforded : having a cost that is not too high. How to use affordable in a sentence.

If someone must forgo other necessities to get insurance or care it is not affordable. Period.

Heineken got a cost that's too high for me.

 

[Rustic]

EVERYONE will have access to affordable insurance. Do you have a problem with that?

"affordable" is a subjective term. Anything is affordable if you prioritize it, and it isn't if your don't. I don't think expensive brands of beer like Heineken are affordable at all, even though there are people a lot worse off than me drinking Heineken every day.

No it's not subjective:

Affordable | Definition of Affordable by Merriam-Webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/affordable
Affordable definition is - able to be afforded : having a cost that is not too high. How to use affordable in a sentence.

If someone must forgo other necessities to get insurance or care it is not affordable. Period.

So you want to force people into shit they do not want, cannot afford and certainly will never benefit from it. Lol