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They don’t honor Nazis in GermanyChildren honor their fathers. At least in healthy societies. That was my point, you post a link, claiming it showed a peak in the 50s and 60s., while instead your link showed the peak a good 40 or 50 years earlier.
I'm skimmed the post. I saw the standard assertions, but no explanation as to why you assume ideological motivation instead of personal and historical.
They moved on
Completely different situations, are treated completely differently? What a shock.
My point was about Pogo's claim that the memorials were put up to somehow support White Supremacy instead of the normal reasons communities put up memorials..
--- Which they were, and not by the communities but by (primarily) the UDC who were on a massive propaganda campaign, a larger part of which involved screening and rewriting American history books in the South, as noted earlier. These communities neither erected these monuments nor did they ask for them; they were DONATED by the UDC after THEY commissioned and purchased them.
.....
Just like the written records of the bases of secession of the various Confederate states that specifically refer to the continuation of Slavery as their reasoning, this rhetoric leaves little doubt as to what the intention was.
Hundreds of memorials over generations of time, spread over populations in the tens of millions?
You finding a few racists quotes does not prove anything.
And why do you keep using the abbreviation, UDC, instead of saying who they actually were? The United Daughters of the Confederacy.
For over 5 generations, America as a whole has accepted the South's celebration of it's heritage and culture as part of the larger American culture and heritage.
That you libs have decided at this late date, that suddenly Southern Whites are not allowed to be proud of their heritage and culture, is you being divisive.
Why do you want to tear this nation apart?
Most folks who disagreed with these racist traitors being honored didn't have a voice until now.
Back then the Democrats were the southern conservatives and the Republicans were the northern liberals. Today it’s the Democrats who are the southern conservatives. And we know what that means.Unpatriotic Dems In Virginia Erases Confederate Holiday
This title is just so bizarre to me. Don’t Republicans here on the USMB understand that the Confederates were traitors which means they were unpatriotic?
Yes, Confederate Democrats were traitors. However, back in 1872 Congress passed the Amnesty Act, which reversed most of the penalties imposed on former Confederates, and pardoned most of Confederate troops, all in order to stabilize the country.
And now, you lefties are trying to destroy history of the South, which is your history, because it doesn't really portray Democrat party that is pretending to be today.
It's an attack on our history that must be preserved for future generations warts and all.Of course they can and they should not remove moments to a brave warrior.They can never eliminate him from history and they don't have to have statues and monuments of the traitors either.
They should remove monuments of a traitor.
Okay, so remove all monuments to Obama.
Then what?
No, it's not honoring men who DON'T DESERVE to be honored.
They don’t honor Nazis in GermanyWell Homer I guess it's the part where you want to act stupid by goingover a post that already explained all this shit.
Children honor their fathers. At least in healthy societies. That was my point, you post a link, claiming it showed a peak in the 50s and 60s., while instead your link showed the peak a good 40 or 50 years earlier.
I'm skimmed the post. I saw the standard assertions, but no explanation as to why you assume ideological motivation instead of personal and historical.
They moved on
Completely different situations, are treated completely differently? What a shock.
My point was about Pogo's claim that the memorials were put up to somehow support White Supremacy instead of the normal reasons communities put up memorials..
--- Which they were, and not by the communities but by (primarily) the UDC who were on a massive propaganda campaign, a larger part of which involved screening and rewriting American history books in the South, as noted earlier. These communities neither erected these monuments nor did they ask for them; they were DONATED by the UDC after THEY commissioned and purchased them.
In one instance that readily comes to mind, "Silent Sam" in this state, where in the 1913 dedication (note again the consistent date) not only was the UDC origin fully acknowledged but the Confederate veteran selected to give the speech noted:
>> The present generation, I am persuaded, scarcely takes note of what the Confederate soldier meant to the welfare of the Anglo Saxon race during the four years immediately succeeding the war, when the facts are, that their courage and steadfastness saved the very life of the Anglo Saxon race in the South – When “the bottom rail was on top” all over the Southern states, and to-day, as a consequence the purest strain of the Anglo Saxon is to be found in the 13 Southern States – Praise God.
I trust I may be pardoned for one allusion, howbeit it is rather personal. One hundred yards from where we stand, less than ninety days perhaps after my return from Appomattox, I horse-whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds, because upon the streets of this quiet village she had publicly insulted and maligned a Southern lady, and then rushed for protection to these University buildings where was stationed a garrison of 100 Federal soldiers. I performed the pleasing duty in the immediate presence of the entire garrison, and for thirty nights afterwards slept with a double-barrel shot gun under my head. << -- Source: Julian S. Carr, “Unveiling of Confederate Monument at University. June 2, 1913” in the Julian Shakespeare Carr Papers #141, Southern Historical Collection, The Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. (viewable here)
A bio of this Julian Carr proves most informative:
>> Julian Shakespeare Carr (October 12, 1845 – April 29, 1924) was a North Carolina industrialist, philanthropist, white supremacist, and Ku Klux Klan supporter (and when young, a pro-slavery advocate). ...
His studies were interrupted in 1864 by service as a private in the Confederacy, serving with the Third North Carolina Cavalry. Later in life, he was known as "General Carr," the unofficial rank having been bestowed by the state veterans' association due to his long service in veterans' affairs and generosity toward widows and their children. Carr also supported white supremacy and the Ku Klux Klan, spoke favorably of the murder of African Americans that occurred during the Wilmington Massacre of 1898, which he called a "grand and glorious event", and celebrated lynchings. --- Wiki
Just like the written records of the bases of secession of the various Confederate states that specifically refer to the continuation of Slavery as their reasoning, this rhetoric leaves little doubt as to what the intention was.
Hundreds of memorials over generations of time, spread over populations in the tens of millions?
You finding a few racists quotes does not prove anything.
And why do you keep using the abbreviation, UDC, instead of saying who they actually were? The United Daughters of the Confederacy.
For over 5 generations, America as a whole has accepted the South's celebration of it's [sic] heritage and culture as part of the larger American culture and heritage.
That you libs have decided at this late date, that suddenly Southern Whites are not allowed to be proud of their heritage and culture, is you being divisive.
Why do you want to tear this nation apart?
It's an attack on our history that must be preserved for future generations warts and all.Of course they can and they should not remove moments to a brave warrior.
They should remove monuments of a traitor.
Okay, so remove all monuments to Obama.
Then what?
No, it's not honoring men who DON'T DESERVE to be honored.
And in the conspicuouis case of Robert E. Lee, a man who DIDN'T WANT to be honored.
It sails over the hoods of the statue-fetishists that it's the removal of Lee statues that at least observes his wishes, and the erection of them that he opposed. Which in turn reveals that the agenda of the statue-fetishists is entirely self-serving.
Too many leftist DC infiltrators in northern VA. Time to shove these traitors back into Maryland.
Half of my city IS in Kansas - idiot.Too many leftist DC infiltrators in northern VA. Time to shove these traitors back into Maryland.
Yyyyyyeah, you're in Missouri. You worry about how your city got moved to Kansas by presidential Sharpie and let Virginia be Virginia.
They don’t honor Nazis in GermanyChildren honor their fathers. At least in healthy societies. That was my point, you post a link, claiming it showed a peak in the 50s and 60s., while instead your link showed the peak a good 40 or 50 years earlier.
I'm skimmed the post. I saw the standard assertions, but no explanation as to why you assume ideological motivation instead of personal and historical.
They moved on
Completely different situations, are treated completely differently? What a shock.
My point was about Pogo's claim that the memorials were put up to somehow support White Supremacy instead of the normal reasons communities put up memorials..
--- Which they were, and not by the communities but by (primarily) the UDC who were on a massive propaganda campaign, a larger part of which involved screening and rewriting American history books in the South, as noted earlier. These communities neither erected these monuments nor did they ask for them; they were DONATED by the UDC after THEY commissioned and purchased them.
In one instance that readily comes to mind, "Silent Sam" in this state, where in the 1913 dedication (note again the consistent date) not only was the UDC origin fully acknowledged but the Confederate veteran selected to give the speech noted:
>> The present generation, I am persuaded, scarcely takes note of what the Confederate soldier meant to the welfare of the Anglo Saxon race during the four years immediately succeeding the war, when the facts are, that their courage and steadfastness saved the very life of the Anglo Saxon race in the South – When “the bottom rail was on top” all over the Southern states, and to-day, as a consequence the purest strain of the Anglo Saxon is to be found in the 13 Southern States – Praise God.
I trust I may be pardoned for one allusion, howbeit it is rather personal. One hundred yards from where we stand, less than ninety days perhaps after my return from Appomattox, I horse-whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds, because upon the streets of this quiet village she had publicly insulted and maligned a Southern lady, and then rushed for protection to these University buildings where was stationed a garrison of 100 Federal soldiers. I performed the pleasing duty in the immediate presence of the entire garrison, and for thirty nights afterwards slept with a double-barrel shot gun under my head. << -- Source: Julian S. Carr, “Unveiling of Confederate Monument at University. June 2, 1913” in the Julian Shakespeare Carr Papers #141, Southern Historical Collection, The Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. (viewable here)
A bio of this Julian Carr proves most informative:
>> Julian Shakespeare Carr (October 12, 1845 – April 29, 1924) was a North Carolina industrialist, philanthropist, white supremacist, and Ku Klux Klan supporter (and when young, a pro-slavery advocate). ...
His studies were interrupted in 1864 by service as a private in the Confederacy, serving with the Third North Carolina Cavalry. Later in life, he was known as "General Carr," the unofficial rank having been bestowed by the state veterans' association due to his long service in veterans' affairs and generosity toward widows and their children. Carr also supported white supremacy and the Ku Klux Klan, spoke favorably of the murder of African Americans that occurred during the Wilmington Massacre of 1898, which he called a "grand and glorious event", and celebrated lynchings. --- Wiki
Just like the written records of the bases of secession of the various Confederate states that specifically refer to the continuation of Slavery as their reasoning, this rhetoric leaves little doubt as to what the intention was.
Hundreds of memorials over generations of time, spread over populations in the tens of millions?
You finding a few racists quotes does not prove anything.
How come you cut out the content, if it's so unimportant?
Oooooops.
I put it back above. In fact, just for you I made it bigger so everybody can see exactly what it was you cut out to avoid.
And why do you keep using the abbreviation, UDC, instead of saying who they actually were? The United Daughters of the Confederacy.
Which takes fewer keystrokes? Think about it.
For over 5 generations, America as a whole has accepted the South's celebration of it's [sic] heritage and culture as part of the larger American culture and heritage.
Except for black people who, what, don't count?
That you libs have decided at this late date, that suddenly Southern Whites are not allowed to be proud of their heritage and culture, is you being divisive.
Why do you want to tear this nation apart?
Maybe you should ask the indolent planter class of 1861 who did that, railroading their own region into a war they didn't want. THAT's what you want to glorify?
I'm plenty proud of my culture, thanks. I come from a long line of Southerners. But I also know my history. It would be dishonest to sweep it under the rug. And even more dishonest to portray it as a lie.
It's an attack on our history that must be preserved for future generations warts and all.They should remove monuments of a traitor.
Okay, so remove all monuments to Obama.
Then what?
No, it's not honoring men who DON'T DESERVE to be honored.
And in the conspicuouis case of Robert E. Lee, a man who DIDN'T WANT to be honored.
It sails over the hoods of the statue-fetishists that it's the removal of Lee statues that at least observes his wishes, and the erection of them that he opposed. Which in turn reveals that the agenda of the statue-fetishists is entirely self-serving.
He was worried that the celebration of Confederate Soldiers would lead to division and revanchism.
He did not foresee that America as a whole would be able to accept and embrace the South, as an equal with it's own regional pride and celebration of it's heritage.
Your desire to smear people who support memorials to their past soldiers as "statue fetishists" is just you being an asshole.
Half of my city IS in Kansas - idiot.Too many leftist DC infiltrators in northern VA. Time to shove these traitors back into Maryland.
Yyyyyyeah, you're in Missouri. You worry about how your city got moved to Kansas by presidential Sharpie and let Virginia be Virginia.
It's an attack on our history that must be preserved for future generations warts and all.Okay, so remove all monuments to Obama.
Then what?
No, it's not honoring men who DON'T DESERVE to be honored.
And in the conspicuouis case of Robert E. Lee, a man who DIDN'T WANT to be honored.
It sails over the hoods of the statue-fetishists that it's the removal of Lee statues that at least observes his wishes, and the erection of them that he opposed. Which in turn reveals that the agenda of the statue-fetishists is entirely self-serving.
He was worried that the celebration of Confederate Soldiers would lead to division and revanchism.
And he was right about that. Ask a black person. Ask four thousand lynching victims or ballplayers confined to the Negro Leagues or those forced to the back of the bus and the colored waiting room. Ask those harassed by the Ku Klux Klan. Ask Wynton Marsalis.
I'll admit here I had to look up "revanchism" (spell check doesn't know it) but yes it applies to the UDC running around 'marking their territory' in untold numbers of communities who didn't ask for their droppings, so thanks for that.
He did not foresee that America as a whole would be able to accept and embrace the South, as an equal with it's own regional pride and celebration of it's heritage.
And he was right about that too. You're the one wailing and screaming about a statue that he didn't want put there finally being taken down, so it's you spitting in his face about that.
Your desire to smear people who support memorials to their past soldiers as "statue fetishists" is just you being an asshole.
OK, point taken. Not all of them are statues. Let's go with "memorial fetishists" as more broad. I stand corrected.
You're too stupid to be voting anywhere.Half of my city IS in Kansas - idiot.Too many leftist DC infiltrators in northern VA. Time to shove these traitors back into Maryland.
Yyyyyyeah, you're in Missouri. You worry about how your city got moved to Kansas by presidential Sharpie and let Virginia be Virginia.
Even I know from over a thousand miles away that that's a different city.
If I live in Columbus Georgia can I go vote in the mayor election in Columbus Ohio?
They don’t honor Nazis in Germany
They moved on
Completely different situations, are treated completely differently? What a shock.
My point was about Pogo's claim that the memorials were put up to somehow support White Supremacy instead of the normal reasons communities put up memorials..
--- Which they were, and not by the communities but by (primarily) the UDC who were on a massive propaganda campaign, a larger part of which involved screening and rewriting American history books in the South, as noted earlier. These communities neither erected these monuments nor did they ask for them; they were DONATED by the UDC after THEY commissioned and purchased them.
In one instance that readily comes to mind, "Silent Sam" in this state, where in the 1913 dedication (note again the consistent date) not only was the UDC origin fully acknowledged but the Confederate veteran selected to give the speech noted:
>> The present generation, I am persuaded, scarcely takes note of what the Confederate soldier meant to the welfare of the Anglo Saxon race during the four years immediately succeeding the war, when the facts are, that their courage and steadfastness saved the very life of the Anglo Saxon race in the South – When “the bottom rail was on top” all over the Southern states, and to-day, as a consequence the purest strain of the Anglo Saxon is to be found in the 13 Southern States – Praise God.
I trust I may be pardoned for one allusion, howbeit it is rather personal. One hundred yards from where we stand, less than ninety days perhaps after my return from Appomattox, I horse-whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds, because upon the streets of this quiet village she had publicly insulted and maligned a Southern lady, and then rushed for protection to these University buildings where was stationed a garrison of 100 Federal soldiers. I performed the pleasing duty in the immediate presence of the entire garrison, and for thirty nights afterwards slept with a double-barrel shot gun under my head. << -- Source: Julian S. Carr, “Unveiling of Confederate Monument at University. June 2, 1913” in the Julian Shakespeare Carr Papers #141, Southern Historical Collection, The Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. (viewable here)
A bio of this Julian Carr proves most informative:
>> Julian Shakespeare Carr (October 12, 1845 – April 29, 1924) was a North Carolina industrialist, philanthropist, white supremacist, and Ku Klux Klan supporter (and when young, a pro-slavery advocate). ...
His studies were interrupted in 1864 by service as a private in the Confederacy, serving with the Third North Carolina Cavalry. Later in life, he was known as "General Carr," the unofficial rank having been bestowed by the state veterans' association due to his long service in veterans' affairs and generosity toward widows and their children. Carr also supported white supremacy and the Ku Klux Klan, spoke favorably of the murder of African Americans that occurred during the Wilmington Massacre of 1898, which he called a "grand and glorious event", and celebrated lynchings. --- Wiki
Just like the written records of the bases of secession of the various Confederate states that specifically refer to the continuation of Slavery as their reasoning, this rhetoric leaves little doubt as to what the intention was.
Hundreds of memorials over generations of time, spread over populations in the tens of millions?
You finding a few racists quotes does not prove anything.
How come you cut out the content, if it's so unimportant?
Oooooops.
I put it back above. In fact, just for you I made it bigger so everybody can see exactly what it was you cut out to avoid.
And why do you keep using the abbreviation, UDC, instead of saying who they actually were? The United Daughters of the Confederacy.
Which takes fewer keystrokes? Think about it.
For over 5 generations, America as a whole has accepted the South's celebration of it's [sic] heritage and culture as part of the larger American culture and heritage.
Except for black people who, what, don't count?
That you libs have decided at this late date, that suddenly Southern Whites are not allowed to be proud of their heritage and culture, is you being divisive.
Why do you want to tear this nation apart?
Maybe you should ask the indolent planter class of 1861 who did that, railroading their own region into a war they didn't want. THAT's what you want to glorify?
I'm plenty proud of my culture, thanks. I come from a long line of Southerners. But I also know my history. It would be dishonest to sweep it under the rug. And even more dishonest to portray it as a lie.
1. Because, as I pointed out, it is unimportant. I didn't want your wall of cut and paste to bury my responses to your points. My point stands. Considering the scale of the time period and geographical place we are talking about, finding a few racist quotes, proves nothing. If for every racist post you find, I find two of people talking about the honor and fighting spirit of the soldiers in question, will you admit means nothing?
2. But your point is that it was "not the children" of the Confederates that raised the statues, but the UDC, or the United Daughters of the Confederacy. MMMM, interesting.
3. Black people are part of America as a whole. America as a whole, has for over 5 generations been fine with the way the wounds of the Civil War were healed and that the South's regional prides is seen as a fine and healthy part of the larger Nation Pride and Patriotism.
4. The date is not 1861, but 2020. Today, it is you lefties that are being divisive. I ask again, why are you tearing this nation apart?
You're too stupid to be voting anywhere.Half of my city IS in Kansas - idiot.Too many leftist DC infiltrators in northern VA. Time to shove these traitors back into Maryland.
Yyyyyyeah, you're in Missouri. You worry about how your city got moved to Kansas by presidential Sharpie and let Virginia be Virginia.
Even I know from over a thousand miles away that that's a different city.
If I live in Columbus Georgia can I go vote in the mayor election in Columbus Ohio?
It's an attack on our history that must be preserved for future generations warts and all.
No, it's not honoring men who DON'T DESERVE to be honored.
And in the conspicuouis case of Robert E. Lee, a man who DIDN'T WANT to be honored.
It sails over the hoods of the statue-fetishists that it's the removal of Lee statues that at least observes his wishes, and the erection of them that he opposed. Which in turn reveals that the agenda of the statue-fetishists is entirely self-serving.
He was worried that the celebration of Confederate Soldiers would lead to division and revanchism.
And he was right about that. Ask a black person. Ask four thousand lynching victims or ballplayers confined to the Negro Leagues or those forced to the back of the bus and the colored waiting room. Ask those harassed by the Ku Klux Klan. Ask Wynton Marsalis.
I'll admit here I had to look up "revanchism" (spell check doesn't know it) but yes it applies to the UDC running around 'marking their territory' in untold numbers of communities who didn't ask for their droppings, so thanks for that.
He did not foresee that America as a whole would be able to accept and embrace the South, as an equal with it's own regional pride and celebration of it's heritage.
And he was right about that too. You're the one wailing and screaming about a statue that he didn't want put there finally being taken down, so it's you spitting in his face about that.
Your desire to smear people who support memorials to their past soldiers as "statue fetishists" is just you being an asshole.
OK, point taken. Not all of them are statues. Let's go with "memorial fetishists" as more broad. I stand corrected.
America has and still does accept Southern Pride as a healthy part of the Greater American culture adn heritage. Your denial of the last 150 years of American history is delusional.
Completely different situations, are treated completely differently? What a shock.
My point was about Pogo's claim that the memorials were put up to somehow support White Supremacy instead of the normal reasons communities put up memorials..
--- Which they were, and not by the communities but by (primarily) the UDC who were on a massive propaganda campaign, a larger part of which involved screening and rewriting American history books in the South, as noted earlier. These communities neither erected these monuments nor did they ask for them; they were DONATED by the UDC after THEY commissioned and purchased them.
In one instance that readily comes to mind, "Silent Sam" in this state, where in the 1913 dedication (note again the consistent date) not only was the UDC origin fully acknowledged but the Confederate veteran selected to give the speech noted:
>> The present generation, I am persuaded, scarcely takes note of what the Confederate soldier meant to the welfare of the Anglo Saxon race during the four years immediately succeeding the war, when the facts are, that their courage and steadfastness saved the very life of the Anglo Saxon race in the South – When “the bottom rail was on top” all over the Southern states, and to-day, as a consequence the purest strain of the Anglo Saxon is to be found in the 13 Southern States – Praise God.
I trust I may be pardoned for one allusion, howbeit it is rather personal. One hundred yards from where we stand, less than ninety days perhaps after my return from Appomattox, I horse-whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds, because upon the streets of this quiet village she had publicly insulted and maligned a Southern lady, and then rushed for protection to these University buildings where was stationed a garrison of 100 Federal soldiers. I performed the pleasing duty in the immediate presence of the entire garrison, and for thirty nights afterwards slept with a double-barrel shot gun under my head. << -- Source: Julian S. Carr, “Unveiling of Confederate Monument at University. June 2, 1913” in the Julian Shakespeare Carr Papers #141, Southern Historical Collection, The Wilson Library, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. (viewable here)
A bio of this Julian Carr proves most informative:
>> Julian Shakespeare Carr (October 12, 1845 – April 29, 1924) was a North Carolina industrialist, philanthropist, white supremacist, and Ku Klux Klan supporter (and when young, a pro-slavery advocate). ...
His studies were interrupted in 1864 by service as a private in the Confederacy, serving with the Third North Carolina Cavalry. Later in life, he was known as "General Carr," the unofficial rank having been bestowed by the state veterans' association due to his long service in veterans' affairs and generosity toward widows and their children. Carr also supported white supremacy and the Ku Klux Klan, spoke favorably of the murder of African Americans that occurred during the Wilmington Massacre of 1898, which he called a "grand and glorious event", and celebrated lynchings. --- Wiki
Just like the written records of the bases of secession of the various Confederate states that specifically refer to the continuation of Slavery as their reasoning, this rhetoric leaves little doubt as to what the intention was.
Hundreds of memorials over generations of time, spread over populations in the tens of millions?
You finding a few racists quotes does not prove anything.
How come you cut out the content, if it's so unimportant?
Oooooops.
I put it back above. In fact, just for you I made it bigger so everybody can see exactly what it was you cut out to avoid.
And why do you keep using the abbreviation, UDC, instead of saying who they actually were? The United Daughters of the Confederacy.
Which takes fewer keystrokes? Think about it.
For over 5 generations, America as a whole has accepted the South's celebration of it's [sic] heritage and culture as part of the larger American culture and heritage.
Except for black people who, what, don't count?
That you libs have decided at this late date, that suddenly Southern Whites are not allowed to be proud of their heritage and culture, is you being divisive.
Why do you want to tear this nation apart?
Maybe you should ask the indolent planter class of 1861 who did that, railroading their own region into a war they didn't want. THAT's what you want to glorify?
I'm plenty proud of my culture, thanks. I come from a long line of Southerners. But I also know my history. It would be dishonest to sweep it under the rug. And even more dishonest to portray it as a lie.
1. Because, as I pointed out, it is unimportant. I didn't want your wall of cut and paste to bury my responses to your points. My point stands. Considering the scale of the time period and geographical place we are talking about, finding a few racist quotes, proves nothing. If for every racist post you find, I find two of people talking about the honor and fighting spirit of the soldiers in question, will you admit means nothing?
Your posts are ALREADY inflated with this orgy of endless self-infatuated carriage returns, so no amount of content is going to compete with that. No, you cut that part out because you don't want to deal with its reality. However, that reality is exactly why it was there in the first place. Just like the reality of these propaganda transmitters we speak of. You'd like to edit out the history of how they got there and why they were put where they were. Whelp, I'm here to prevent that sort of obfuscation.
Oh and as for the "honor and spirit" bit, the same speech I already linked in fact goes into quite a spiel on that, as do they all. It's the veneer they hide behind so they can get away with the real agenda --- "whipping a Negro wench until her skirt was in shreds".
2. But your point is that it was "not the children" of the Confederates that raised the statues, but the UDC, or the United Daughters of the Confederacy. MMMM, interesting.
Yeah I thought so. History always is, especially when you ferret out the root causes of events. It was equally interesting to find out they spent even more energy literally rewriting the history books.
3. Black people are part of America as a whole. America as a whole, has for over 5 generations been fine with the way the wounds of the Civil War were healed and that the South's regional prides is seen as a fine and healthy part of the larger Nation Pride and Patriotism.
"Patriotism" of course meaning memorializing those who agitated for human trafficking that is, just for a start, illegal. Can't think of any reason the objects of that human trafficking who suffered so unspeakably for so long, literally millions of them having had to migrate elsewhere to escape intolerable conditions, wouldn't be just all warm and fuzzy and hunky dory about that, can you?
4. The date is not 1861, but 2020. Today, it is you lefties that are being divisive. I ask again, why are you tearing this nation apart?
The date refers to "tearing this nation apart". Again ---------- history. You can't make it up, and you can't rewrite it. And when you try to, it's gonna be called out.
And that's why we're here, isn't it.
No, it's not honoring men who DON'T DESERVE to be honored.
And in the conspicuouis case of Robert E. Lee, a man who DIDN'T WANT to be honored.
It sails over the hoods of the statue-fetishists that it's the removal of Lee statues that at least observes his wishes, and the erection of them that he opposed. Which in turn reveals that the agenda of the statue-fetishists is entirely self-serving.
He was worried that the celebration of Confederate Soldiers would lead to division and revanchism.
And he was right about that. Ask a black person. Ask four thousand lynching victims or ballplayers confined to the Negro Leagues or those forced to the back of the bus and the colored waiting room. Ask those harassed by the Ku Klux Klan. Ask Wynton Marsalis.
I'll admit here I had to look up "revanchism" (spell check doesn't know it) but yes it applies to the UDC running around 'marking their territory' in untold numbers of communities who didn't ask for their droppings, so thanks for that.
He did not foresee that America as a whole would be able to accept and embrace the South, as an equal with it's own regional pride and celebration of it's heritage.
And he was right about that too. You're the one wailing and screaming about a statue that he didn't want put there finally being taken down, so it's you spitting in his face about that.
Your desire to smear people who support memorials to their past soldiers as "statue fetishists" is just you being an asshole.
OK, point taken. Not all of them are statues. Let's go with "memorial fetishists" as more broad. I stand corrected.
America has and still does accept Southern Pride as a healthy part of the Greater American culture adn heritage. Your denial of the last 150 years of American history is delusional.
Yeah I would know NOTHING about Southern history from my home in North Carolina and my roots in Mississippi and South Carolina. Wouldn't have a clue.
Where are you again?
And in the conspicuouis case of Robert E. Lee, a man who DIDN'T WANT to be honored.
It sails over the hoods of the statue-fetishists that it's the removal of Lee statues that at least observes his wishes, and the erection of them that he opposed. Which in turn reveals that the agenda of the statue-fetishists is entirely self-serving.
He was worried that the celebration of Confederate Soldiers would lead to division and revanchism.
And he was right about that. Ask a black person. Ask four thousand lynching victims or ballplayers confined to the Negro Leagues or those forced to the back of the bus and the colored waiting room. Ask those harassed by the Ku Klux Klan. Ask Wynton Marsalis.
I'll admit here I had to look up "revanchism" (spell check doesn't know it) but yes it applies to the UDC running around 'marking their territory' in untold numbers of communities who didn't ask for their droppings, so thanks for that.
He did not foresee that America as a whole would be able to accept and embrace the South, as an equal with it's own regional pride and celebration of it's heritage.
And he was right about that too. You're the one wailing and screaming about a statue that he didn't want put there finally being taken down, so it's you spitting in his face about that.
Your desire to smear people who support memorials to their past soldiers as "statue fetishists" is just you being an asshole.
OK, point taken. Not all of them are statues. Let's go with "memorial fetishists" as more broad. I stand corrected.
America has and still does accept Southern Pride as a healthy part of the Greater American culture adn heritage. Your denial of the last 150 years of American history is delusional.
Yeah I would know NOTHING about Southern history from my home in North Carolina and my roots in Mississippi and South Carolina. Wouldn't have a clue.
Where are you again?
Norther rust belt city, and yes, I obviously know more than you.
Do you recognize where that photo is from?
He was worried that the celebration of Confederate Soldiers would lead to division and revanchism.
And he was right about that. Ask a black person. Ask four thousand lynching victims or ballplayers confined to the Negro Leagues or those forced to the back of the bus and the colored waiting room. Ask those harassed by the Ku Klux Klan. Ask Wynton Marsalis.
I'll admit here I had to look up "revanchism" (spell check doesn't know it) but yes it applies to the UDC running around 'marking their territory' in untold numbers of communities who didn't ask for their droppings, so thanks for that.
He did not foresee that America as a whole would be able to accept and embrace the South, as an equal with it's own regional pride and celebration of it's heritage.
And he was right about that too. You're the one wailing and screaming about a statue that he didn't want put there finally being taken down, so it's you spitting in his face about that.
Your desire to smear people who support memorials to their past soldiers as "statue fetishists" is just you being an asshole.
OK, point taken. Not all of them are statues. Let's go with "memorial fetishists" as more broad. I stand corrected.
America has and still does accept Southern Pride as a healthy part of the Greater American culture adn heritage. Your denial of the last 150 years of American history is delusional.
Yeah I would know NOTHING about Southern history from my home in North Carolina and my roots in Mississippi and South Carolina. Wouldn't have a clue.
Where are you again?
Norther rust belt city, and yes, I obviously know more than you.
Do you recognize where that photo is from?
Yes, I've had to drive through there a few times. It's a pain in the ass.
