Uprising in Egypt Splitting the Conservatives in the US

[uscitizen]

If terrorists start screwing with Suez traffic we will have $5 gas in a heartbeat.

 

[Charles_Main]

Something hiding in plain sight: the fact that many of the protest signs being slung by the protesters in Egypt are preprinted, in block letters and in English. Just like all the Astroturf Obama's ACORN/SEIU protesters for Obamacare. Please don't make me go through the "if it walks like a duck" cliché.

Earlier in the week, it was rumored on many news venues that the US was somehow behind, or supporting, the massive protests in Egypt. Now if you think back over the years, this is a common occurrence in such situations, meaning the pretty new signs. The fact that no one has pointed this out is astounding.

So you think the fact they have printing in English is proof we are behind it? Could be, but I would point out that Protest in the Area of been have signs in Arabic and English for some time now. The are not stupid over there. They know they are playing to the world audience not just an Arab one.

 

[mdn2000]

with all the weapons the USA gave them?

The Mother of all Battles,

I seriously Doubt it. I know 8 Years of Afghanistan and Iraq have left many with the Impression that we are weak. But those are attempted occupations Of entire Nations. Any hostile force that attempts to hold and control and cut off access to the Canal. Would be absolutely destroyed by Western Air and Sea power. Capturing and holding the Sini and Canal would be a cake walk, and once we had it. Defending it would be a cake walk as well.

We may be weak on the ground, but do not doubt the US air force and Navies ability to Decimate any Conventional Army, Navy, or Air force a Hostile Egypt could put up against us.

The wild card would be Where Countries like China and Russia came down. If they opposed us like I said in another post. It could easily turn into WWIII.

The Canal is simply that Vital. Close it to the West and think 12 Dollar gallon gas and a doubling of the price of just about every thing else you need to live.

To put it another way. Complete Economic Disaster for the west.

You know we are on the same page, right, anyhow I was born in Michigan, just stuck in California.

Back when Egypt was strong, I think the war with Israel lasted six days, I am not so sure they would last that long this time.

Could you imagine any army in the world willing to deploy amongst the Sand Dunes to take the Sues Canal, impossible, what is not so impossible is a few suicide bombs or who knows what they might come up with to destroy a ship or two.

I think our biggest fear should be that Obama accepts a "Moderate" Islamic government of any kind. A Wolf in Sheep's clothing, waiting, and the occasional ship is destroyed, and the new government just pretends they are doing everything they can.

They will be a peaceful government with no control over sending missiles and weapons into Palestine.

Outright war against the west I understand will never happen.

Nope, this will be another peaceful, democrat, moslem, terrorist, state.

 

[Charles_Main]

a. Eighty two percent of Egyptians support executing adulterers by stoning, 77% support whipping and cutting the hands off thieves. 84% support executing any Muslim who changes his religion.

They are a backward people.

Not really. Egypt is actually has a sizable Highly Educated population living in the Cites. The "backwardness" you are talking about can be found but it is mostly in Rural Areas and not really reflective of Egypt as a whole.

 

[Charles_Main]

The Mother of all Battles,

I seriously Doubt it. I know 8 Years of Afghanistan and Iraq have left many with the Impression that we are weak. But those are attempted occupations Of entire Nations. Any hostile force that attempts to hold and control and cut off access to the Canal. Would be absolutely destroyed by Western Air and Sea power. Capturing and holding the Sini and Canal would be a cake walk, and once we had it. Defending it would be a cake walk as well.

We may be weak on the ground, but do not doubt the US air force and Navies ability to Decimate any Conventional Army, Navy, or Air force a Hostile Egypt could put up against us.

The wild card would be Where Countries like China and Russia came down. If they opposed us like I said in another post. It could easily turn into WWIII.

The Canal is simply that Vital. Close it to the West and think 12 Dollar gallon gas and a doubling of the price of just about every thing else you need to live.

To put it another way. Complete Economic Disaster for the west.

You know we are on the same page, right, anyhow I was born in Michigan, just stuck in California.

Back when Egypt was strong, I think the war with Israel lasted six days, I am not so sure they would last that long this time.

Could you imagine any army in the world willing to deploy amongst the Sand Dunes to take the Sues Canal, impossible, what is not so impossible is a few suicide bombs or who knows what they might come up with to destroy a ship or two.

I think our biggest fear should be that Obama accepts a "Moderate" Islamic government of any kind. A Wolf in Sheep's clothing, waiting, and the occasional ship is destroyed, and the new government just pretends they are doing everything they can.

They will be a peaceful government with no control over sending missiles and weapons into Palestine.

Outright war against the west I understand will never happen.

Nope, this will be another peaceful, democrat, moslem, terrorist, state.

I Actually do not think it is very likely the Egyptian Military will lose control to an Islamic Regime. The Military is probably the most respected, and trusted institution in the country. It is also Largely Secular.

It could happen but I still do not think it is very likely. Were probably just all being alarmist here. Egyptians are likely to end up ruled by yet another General Installed by the Military.

 

[uscitizen]

All a terrorist has to do is blow up a couple or 3 ships to screw up the canal for a while.
Can you imagine how far burning oil from a tanker would go in the canal?

And only a couple of ships sunk would block the canal.

 

[Charles_Main]

All a terrorist has to do is blow up a couple or 3 ships to screw up the canal for a while.
Can you imagine how far burning oil from a tanker would go in the canal?

And only a couple of ships sunk would block the canal.

Yep, Like I said is might very well be the most strategically Important place on earth. That's why despite how it looked, I was against forcing Israel to hand control over to the Brits and French so they could just hand it back to Egypt.

 

[Avatar4321]

All a terrorist has to do is blow up a couple or 3 ships to screw up the canal for a while.
Can you imagine how far burning oil from a tanker would go in the canal?

And only a couple of ships sunk would block the canal.

And now the idea is out there online for all the world to see.

 

[uscitizen]

All a terrorist has to do is blow up a couple or 3 ships to screw up the canal for a while.
Can you imagine how far burning oil from a tanker would go in the canal?

And only a couple of ships sunk would block the canal.

And now the idea is out there online for all the world to see.

OHH I am sure Beck or some fear monger has already broadcast similiar stuff around the world by now.

If the terrorists use my idea I will just sue them for copyright infirngement!

 

[Synthaholic]

Global mobility means that we cannot ignore the threat of terrorism...and cannot underestimate the aid that Middle Eastern countries have provided in the War On Terrorism. How can we tell governments how they must handle internal situations, and expect their help?

Q: What is always the #1 reason given by terrorists?
A: U.S. interference in the Middle East.

Q: Why do we "interfere"?
A: Oil

Period. It's not about helping an oppressed people rise up. There are plenty of places in the world without oil where we could do that if we wanted.

Get off the oil, and QUICKLY. Even if it costs a lot in the short term. Devalue the Middle East. Make these rulers deal with their reality and their citizenry. It's disgusting that even a lower-level Saudi like Prince Bandar can be so fucking rich from our oil habit that he can buy a place like the Hala Ranch, in Aspen, CO - currently on the market for $135 million.

Third-richest property in the United States. And just one of his many properties, including estates in England.

 

[mdn2000]

Some 16,000 vessels already pass through the canal each year, carrying an estimated 14% of world shipping and 30% of world oil supplies.

BBC NEWS | Business | Suez: the supertanker super highway

But unless they have finished an upgrade the largest supertankers will not fit.

BBC news got it wrong, its not 30%, its 1%, imagine all the money they made on Oil running that story.

Egypt Unrest May Drive Up LNG Trading Costs for Asia, Europe - Businessweek

About 2.5 percent of global oil production is shipped through Egypt via the Suez Canal and the adjacent Suez-Mediterranean Pipeline, according to a Goldman report yesterday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/03/world/middleeast/03suez.html?src=twrhp

. About 4.5 percent of global oil supplies flow through the canal and the Sumed pipeline, which connects the Red Sea with the Mediterranean.

Take you pick of numbers, one percent seems as good as the next.

 

[Synthaholic]

a. Eighty two percent of Egyptians support executing adulterers by stoning, 77% support whipping and cutting the hands off thieves. 84% support executing any Muslim who changes his religion.

They are a backward people.

Not really. Egypt is actually has a sizable Highly Educated population living in the Cites. The "backwardness" you are talking about can be found but it is mostly in Rural Areas and not really reflective of Egypt as a whole.

When I say backward, I don't mean intellectually, or as lesser people. I'm talking societal, and cultural. They are Draconian, and extreme. Stonings, public whippings, cutting off wrists, their abysmal treatment of women, their abuse of children, their fucked-up-even-more-than-most religious beliefs, their honor killings, their ritual female circumcisions - these are ALL backward.

 

[Synthaholic]

American cannot allow there to be a holocaust in Israel.

Why is this our burden?

 

[Synthaholic]

I was talking about how Carter let the Shaw of Iran be overthrown and the I-a tollah (fucked up speelin) become ruler.


But who cares right? Let the Muslim Brotherhood have Egypt..... and the Suez Canal (or as Chris Mathews called it... the Panama Canal)

You tell us what Carter should have done? Help the Shah mow down protestors in the streets? Assassinate the Ayatollah? Give the Secret Police poison gas to use against their own citizens?

What?

Yep the Shah did not care much for his people from the way he treated them.
Of course he was the spoiled playboy type son of the ex leader of Iran, a Hitler collabarator.

Kinda reminds me of the bush clan in a way

Wow, that is a shameful parallel.

 

[Synthaholic]

I guess if you're under the sad misunderstanding that a vote for Hamas was a vote for democracy, then I can see how you might think that.

If the majority vote for Hamas then it is democracy at work.
Do you even know what democracy is?

They say that war is God's way of teaching folks geography...

but haven't the events and the posts on the board taught you that there is no definition of democracy without defining the venue, as well?

"One shouldn’t cherry-pick facts to fit an agenda. The study does say that radicals “believe in democracy even more than many of the mainstream moderates do.” But does anyone really think we’re operating with a consistent definition of democracy here? The Muslim Brotherhood, for example, makes claims to be democratic, yet its leaders-for-life are not elected, the organization boasts a doctrine of female subordination, and it calls for the death of apostates. Kind of a big-government democracy, I suppose."

Commentary Blog Archive Muslim Survey “Challenges” West

uscitizen was talking about the democratically elected Hamas, not the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood.

 

[Synthaholic]

I guess if you're under the sad misunderstanding that a vote for Hamas was a vote for democracy, then I can see how you might think that.

If the majority vote for Hamas then it is democracy at work.
Do you even know what democracy is?

Yeah, you keep dreaming.

That was a monitored election. Hamas won fairly. That's what happens when you insist on democracy: sometimes you are not going to get the results you want.

 

[Synthaholic]

You tell us what Carter should have done? Help the Shah mow down protestors in the streets? Assassinate the Ayatollah? Give the Secret Police poison gas to use against their own citizens?

What?

Yep the Shah did not care much for his people from the way he treated them.
Of course he was the spoiled playboy type son of the ex leader of Iran, a Hitler collabarator.

Kinda reminds me of the bush clan in a way

"When the Iranian revolution came to power, with the help of Democratic President Jimmy Carter, the Ayatollah Khomeini killed more human beings (about twenty thousand) in two weeks than had been killed by the Shah during his entire thirty-eight years. Khomeini followed this by sending hundreds of thousands of Iranians to die in the Iran-Iraq war, as martyrdom was needed to resurrect the Islamic Empire."
Paul Berman, “Terror and Liberalism,” p. 108

Where do you get this crap? RNC Revisionist Reading List?

Sorry - wingnut hit pieces do not count and do not influence.

 

[uscitizen]

Some 16,000 vessels already pass through the canal each year, carrying an estimated 14% of world shipping and 30% of world oil supplies.

BBC NEWS | Business | Suez: the supertanker super highway

But unless they have finished an upgrade the largest supertankers will not fit.

BBC news got it wrong, its not 30%, its 1%, imagine all the money they made on Oil running that story.

Egypt Unrest May Drive Up LNG Trading Costs for Asia, Europe - Businessweek

About 2.5 percent of global oil production is shipped through Egypt via the Suez Canal and the adjacent Suez-Mediterranean Pipeline, according to a Goldman report yesterday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/03/world/middleeast/03suez.html?src=twrhp

. About 4.5 percent of global oil supplies flow through the canal and the Sumed pipeline, which connects the Red Sea with the Mediterranean.

Take you pick of numbers, one percent seems as good as the next.

Thanks for the info.
I expect that we get virtually none of our ME oil thru the Suez. But that would make no difference to our oil price if the Suez was screwed up by terrorists.
Any excuse to increase profit.

 

[Synthaholic]

Neocons like the Shrub, Huckster and Ginweasel aren't old school conservatives....One of the aims of the Tea Party types is to get those sort of east coast ruling class Rockefeller republicans out of office.

Ginweasel????

Strange thing is, every single Tea Party supporter I personally know were ardent Bush supporters. And I believe would elect him again if they could.

Oh, for sure. They were all over those "Do you miss me yet?" billboards and T-Shirts a while back. They love their Shrub, and his Turd Blossom.

But who is Ginweasel?

 

[uscitizen]

Ginweasel????

Strange thing is, every single Tea Party supporter I personally know were ardent Bush supporters. And I believe would elect him again if they could.

Oh, for sure. They were all over those "Do you miss me yet?" billboards and T-Shirts a while back. They love their Shrub, and his Turd Blossom.

But who is Ginweasel?

I have no idea.