Voter ID terrifies Democrats

[daveman]

By the Republicans logic, everyone's going out risking 5 years in jail and a $10,000 fine for each voting offense in order to increase the vote by one incremental vote. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

The evidence is indisputable that aliens, both legal and illegal, are registering and voting in federal, state, and local elections. Following a mayor's race in Compton, California, for example, aliens testi*fied under oath in court that they voted in the elec*tion. In that case, a candidate who was elected to the city council was permanently disqualified from holding public office in California for soliciting non-citizens to register and vote. The fact that non-citizens registered and voted in the election would never have been discovered except for the fact that it was a very close election and the in*cumbent mayor, who lost by less than 300 votes, contested it.

Similarly, a 1996 congressional race in California may have been stolen by non-citizen voting. Republican incumbent Bob Dornan was defending himself against a spirited challenger, Democrat Lor*etta Sanchez. Sanchez won the election by just 979 votes, and Dornan contested the election in the U.S. House of Representatives. His challenge was dismissed after an investigation by the House Com*mittee on Oversight and Government Reform turned up only 624 invalid votes by non-citizens who were present in the U.S. Immigration and Nat*uralization Service (INS) database because they had applied for citizenship, as well as another 124 improper absentee ballots. The investigation, however, could not detect illegal aliens, who were not in the INS records.

The Oversight Committee pointed out the ele*phant in the room: "If there is a significant num*ber of ‘documented aliens,' aliens in INS records, on the Orange County voter registration rolls, how many illegal or undocumented aliens may be regis*tered to vote in Orange County?" There is a strong possibility that, with only about 200 votes determining the winner, enough undetected aliens registered and voted to change the outcome of the election. This is particularly true since the California Secretary of State complained that the INS refused his request to check the entire Orange County voter registration file, and no complete check of all of the individuals who voted in the congressional race was ever made.​

Your "evidence" defies logic and besides, if the incidences of fraud are actually true, they are isolated incidences and do not constitute a crisis.

Yeah. FUCK democracy, huh?

If I was an illegal alien living in this country, the last place I would go to is a government agency and register in any way, shape or form, risking discovery and deportation back to the country I ran from.

And yet, as the CBO shows, many thousands have done so.

So what you would do is utterly immaterial.

 

[daveman]

Do you support the requirement that people show a photo ID to buy a gun?
If so, how then can you oppose the same requirement in order to vote?

Because casting an illegal vote doesn't kill people?

Not sure how this at all follows. Please explain yourself further.
I'd be very interested to see how/why you can trivialize illegal voting in such a way.

Because illegals vote for the party who wants to give them citizenship, bypassing the law -- Democrats.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Without fraud, the dims can't win.

The dims DEMAND the right to defraud elections, with illegals, cartoon characters, and dead people all voting!

 

[Uncensored2008]

The only thing which does not hold water is the assumption such voter fraud which only voter ID could fix is even occurring.

If it weren't; you wouldn't be fighting against voter ID.

I'm just sayin...

 

[daveman]

The right to vote should be impeded as little as possible. Any impediment to voting requires unimpeachable evidence that such an impediment is necessary.

So if you want voters to have to present proof of residence and citizenship in order to register to vote, that is an impediment to voting. Therefore, you must show such a requirement is necessary. Such as rampant voter fraud.

If there is voter fraud, then residency and citizenship requirements can mitigate that.

If you then wish to put an additional impediment to voting in the form of requiring an ID at the voting booth, you must once again show this is necessary.

I have yet to see anyone anywhere prove the necessity of this requirement. No one. Anywhere.

The voter ID requirement is political pandering to the paranoid who imagine illegal aliens or somesuch swaying elections and putting a negro in the White House.


So, prove there is fraud. And then prove that a voter ID will stop it and that improving the existing registration process won't stop it.

I would wager that most instances of fraud you can produce can be fixed by repairing the registration process.

Also, the courts have NOT held up every voter ID law. Claiming they have is false. Missouri's voter ID law was overturned because the ID requirement was too narrow. This is also why the Department of Justice just threw out the ID requirements in Texas and South Carolina.

To register to vote in South Carolina or Texas, you are allowed to produce many kinds of ID which prove your residency. But to actually vote, they wanted the voters to produce a DMV-issued ID. So that is too narrow restriction and it had the effect of disenfranchising many voters.

This is not an imaginary effect, it is a real one. And so if you are going to disenfranchise REAL voters, you need to show that not doing so does even more harm.

So prove it.

Missouri had to broaden their voter ID requirement, and they did. And that is all South Carolina and Texas need to do.

Not everyone has a DMV ID. But they do have other forms of ID which prove they have the right to vote.

This really isn't complicated.

Guess you didn't read this: The Cutting Edge News

 

[LoneLaugher]

Because casting an illegal vote doesn't kill people?

Not sure how this at all follows. Please explain yourself further.
I'd be very interested to see how/why you can trivialize illegal voting in such a way.

Because illegals vote for the party who wants to give them citizenship, bypassing the law -- Democrats.

That is ridiculous. Name the politicians who have run on such a platform or have introduced legislation to give anyone citizenship.

In fact, please argue that Democrats have been more generous toward illegal immigrants than Republicans have. Thanks.

 

[daveman]

But hey, as long as they are black, who cares, amiright?

Go be stupid somewhere else.

 

[daveman]

But hey, as long as they are black, who cares?

ah..back to the old 'THE GOP HATES BLACKS' argument.

The last refuge of the intellectually bankrupt.

 

[daveman]

ah..back to the old 'THE GOP HATES BLACKS' argument.

The DOJ found that a disproportionate number of minorities were disenfranchised in South Carolina by the SC voter ID law.

SC is a deeply red state.

That's the only reason voter ID is on everyone's mind right now. The recent DOJ decision to put an injunction against SC and TX voter ID laws.

And there has been bigotry in this very topic.

Yes indeed. Democrats think minorities are too stupid to get an ID card.

 

[LeftofLeft]

The whole purpose of providing proof of identification is to increase the level of validation of a person's identity. It increases the authenticity of a person delaring who they are and attributes tied to them (name, address, age, etc.).

Why do Liberals push the notion that minorities are less likely to respect the notion of identification?

 

[Uncensored2008]

That is ridiculous. Name the politicians who have run on such a platform or have introduced legislation to give anyone citizenship.

Assemblymember Gil Cedillo Representing the 45th California Assembly District

Be serious.

In fact, please argue that Democrats have been more generous toward illegal immigrants than Republicans have. Thanks.

ROFL

{ La Raza [the Race, referring to Latino ethnicity] is a victim of the same political and economic forces that are oppressing the Palestinian people and other people of color around the world. We must awaken to this fact and understand the hidden strategies and tactics being utilized to subjugate our people in order to devise effective counter-measures to neutralize them.6 }

Esteban Torres; (former) Chair of the California Democratic Party.

 

[daveman]

That's all the voter ID crowd has. Theoreticals.

I have shown actual voters, real people in the real world, are prevented from voting in real elections at real voting booths, by real, existing voter ID laws.

This DEMANDS someone prove these people's rights should be denied.

You proceed from a false premise, that an actual act of fraud ben shown to justify the requirement.

Quite the opposite. I have plainly stated that no one has shown any actual fraud. Several times. That's my whole point!

And you are wrong.

113 convictions represent small fraction of total unlawful votes

ST. PAUL, Minn., Oct. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Minnesota Majority today released a report on voter fraud convictions to date stemming from Minnesota's 2008 general election. The report finds that 113 individuals who voted illegally in the 2008 election have been convicted of the crime, "ineligible voter knowingly votes" under Minnesota Statute 201.014.

"As far as we can tell, this is the largest number of voter fraud convictions arising from a single election in the past 75 years," said Minnesota Majority president Jeff Davis, "Prosecutions are still underway and so there will likely be even more convictions."

--

Minnesota's recent charges and convictions stem from research initiated by Minnesota Majority. The research identified upwards of 2,800 ineligible felons believed to have unlawfully voted in Minnesota's 2008 general election.

"These convictions are just the tip of the iceberg," said Davis. "The actual number of illegal votes cast was in the thousands. Most unlawful voters were never charged with a crime because they simply pled ignorance. We have evidence of these people casting illegal ballots, but in Minnesota, ignorance of election law is considered to be an acceptable defense."​

Now that you've been shown your claim is wrong, do not make it again.

 

[daveman]

WHAT FRAUD?!? Where are all the incidents of fraud that these VERY restrictive voter ID laws are supposed to be stopping? These laws ARE disenfranchising voters. What is the acceptable ratio of disenfranchisement to fraud for ya'll?

Why would Texas allow concealed carry permits as a form of Voter ID, but not a student ID? Why would they exempt people born before 1931 from providing an ID?

Wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that McCain won gun owners and the elderly by a large margin...

No, it's because people granted concealed carry permits have already adequately identified themselves to the government. As far as the folks born before 1931, those are some of the people the left is screeching would have too much trouble obtaining a photo ID. Make up your mind.

So Texas believes that no one born before 1931 will commit fraud? It sounds like Texas needs to make up its mind. Why shouldn't they have to provide SOME form of ID, not necessarily photo ID?

I'm sure it has nothing to do with older voters voting GOP.

"As far as the folks born before 1931, those are some of the people the left is screeching would have too much trouble obtaining a photo ID. Make up your mind."

 

[LoneLaugher]

That is ridiculous. Name the politicians who have run on such a platform or have introduced legislation to give anyone citizenship.

Assemblymember Gil Cedillo Representing the 45th California Assembly District

Be serious.

In fact, please argue that Democrats have been more generous toward illegal immigrants than Republicans have. Thanks.

ROFL

{ La Raza [the Race, referring to Latino ethnicity] is a victim of the same political and economic forces that are oppressing the Palestinian people and other people of color around the world. We must awaken to this fact and understand the hidden strategies and tactics being utilized to subjugate our people in order to devise effective counter-measures to neutralize them.6 }

Esteban Torres; (former) Chair of the California Democratic Party.

Fail. You did not respond to the challenge. Not even close.

 

[daveman]

No, I'm saying that the kind of fraud that would be deterred by voter ID isn't happening, but the disenfranchisement of voters as a result of these laws IS happening. What is the acceptable ratio? How many voters are you willing to disenfranchise in order to prevent one instance of fraud. Can anyone provide a recent instance of fraud that would have been deterred by these restrictive voter ID laws?

I detest the very idea of election fraud in all forms, but the Republicans only seem worried about the kind that there is no proof of it having occurred. If they truly DID care about election fraud, then they wouldn't be concentrating their efforts on just voter ID laws. They would be pushing for more transparency and accountability, but the fact that a single registrar in a Wisconsin county can store ALL the votes on her personal computer didn't even blip on their radar. The fact that over a dozen states have no paper trail on their electronic voting machines doesn't seem to concern them at all. A number of states do not do any kind of post election audit to determine if their machines are recording votes correctly. These are areas that are FRAUGHT with the possibility of fraud, but not a single Republican is making an issue of them or putting processes in place to limit the possibility of fraud.

That leads me to only one conclusion...these voter ID laws are not being put in place to stop fraud, but to keep voters (who tend to vote Democratic) from voting.

No, I'm saying that the kind of fraud that would be deterred by voter ID isn't happening

Then you are not very smart.........................2004 washington state governors race.

We already played this game. A judge ruled that there was no fraud.

There has been in MN:

Minnesota Leads the Nation in Voter Fraud Convictions -- ST. PAUL, Minn., Oct. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --

 

[daveman]

Voter ID laws disproportionately effect poor and minority voters. These voters tend to vote Democratic.

These people also tend be receive government assictance.... for which they need an ID.

And in any event... effect does not necessitate intent.

Not a current photo ID. A SSN is often sufficient.

And everyone who gets a SSN is who he says he is?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Fail. You did not respond to the challenge. Not even close.

You asked for democrats promoting citizenship for illegals, I gave you the notorious Cedillo - who is a leader in the movement to open the borders.

You asked about dems hostile to America, I gave you the top dog(shit) of the dim party, fucknuts Torres.

You were stupid and got exposed.

 

[daveman]

I'll say it again...I'll believe that Republicans are serious about Fraud when they push for paper trails on voting machines, post election manual audits, cameras in all tally rooms, two person integrity on ballots and statewide databases. (among other things)

I'll believe Democrats are serious about opposing fraud when they stop committing and condoning it.

 

[daveman]

Nothing in the Constitution gives non-citizens the right to vote.

So how do you propose we keep them from voting?

Did you not read the topic before posting? There are existing voter registration requirements to prevent that.

Have you not read anything? OMB found illegal aliens on voter registration rolls.

How did those existing voter registration requirements to prevent that?

Hint: They didn't.

 

[Lakhota]

Does anyone have any proof of dead people voting?

By Ari Berman, August 30, 2011

No one has done more to stir up fears about the manufactured threat of voter fraud than Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, a top adviser in the Bush Justice Department who has become a rising star in the GOP. "We need a Kris Kobach in every state," declared Michelle Malkin, the conservative pundit. This year, Kobach successfully fought for a law requiring every Kansan to show proof of citizenship in order to vote – even though the state prosecuted only one case of voter fraud in the past five years. The new restriction fused anti-immigrant hysteria with voter-fraud paranoia. "In Kansas, the illegal registration of alien voters has become pervasive," Kobach claimed, offering no substantiating evidence.

Kobach also asserted that dead people were casting ballots, singling out a deceased Kansan named Alfred K. Brewer as one such zombie voter. There was only one problem: Brewer was still very much alive. The Wichita Eagle found him working in his front yard. "I don't think this is heaven," Brewer told the paper. "Not when I'm raking leaves."

The GOP War on Voting | Politics News | Rolling Stone