Want to enact more gun control? Convince me.

It is clear to anyone capable of rational thought that those who want more gun control can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

However, in the spirit of honest debate, I am happy to offer these people a chance to show otherwise.

To them, I issue this challenge: present a sound argument for more gun control.

1: Define the additional gun control measures you seek
2: Show the necessity for these measures
3: Show that these measures will meet the need you described
4: Show that these measures do not infringe upon the rights of the law abiding
5: Do all of this without arguing from emotion, ignorance, dishonesty or any other logical fallacies....

A psychopath already met all your vain attempts to justify the too many deaths that only occur in America because of the weak and irrelevant arguments you espouse like some sort of snake oil salesman. "Eric manufactured three more pipe bombs: the Charlie batch. Then he halted production until December. What he needed was guns. And that was becoming a problem.

Eric had been looking into the Brady Bill. Congress had passed the law restricting the purchase of most popular semiautomatic machine guns in 1993. A federal system of instant background checks would soon go into effect. Eric was going to have a hard time getting around that.

"Fuck you Brady!" Eric wrote in his journal. All he wanted was a couple of guns - "and thanks to your fucking bill I will probably not get any!" He wanted them only for personal protection, he joked: "Its not like I'm some psycho who would go on a shooting spree. fuckers."

Eric frequently made his research do double duty for both schoolwork and his master plan. He wrote up a short research assignment on the Brady Bill that week. It was a good idea in theory, he said, aside from the loopholes. The biggest problem was that checks applied only to licensed dealers, not private dealers. So two-thirds of the licensed dealers had just gone private. "The FBI just shot themselves in the foot," he concluded."

Eric was rational about his firepower. "As of this date I have enough explosives to kill about 100 people," he wrote. With axes, bayonets, and assorted blades, he could maybe take out ten more. That was as far as hand to-hand combat would get him. A hundred and ten people. "that just isn't enough!"

"Guns!" the entry concluded. "I need guns! Give me some fucking firearms! "
p.280 'Columbine' by Dave Cullen [bold added]

"In Leviathan, written while he was in hiding from the horrors of the British civil war, Hobbes asks us to imagine ourselves in a “state of nature” before the establishment of civil government. Without the constraint of public laws individuals live lives of perfect and total freedom. No government exists to tax them or to regulate the use of their property. In this state of nature each person has one natural right, the right “for the preservation of his own nature, that is to say, of his own life, and consequently of doing anything which, in his own judgment and reason, he shall conceive to be the aptest means thereunto.” The right to self-protection may seem like an uncontroversial starting point for thinking about politics but, Hobbes shows, taken by itself it leads to disaster. Notice that Hobbes says that a right to self-protection includes the right to individually interpret, “in his own judgment and reason,” what self-protection demands. This is where the trouble starts and precisely where, a Hobbesian would wager, the NRA’s proposals for an armed society threaten to take us." The Contemporary Condition: The N.R.A. and the New State of Nature

Gun nuts are those who think a gun is a solution.
Gut nuts are those whose fear is greater than their sense.
Gun nuts are those who think their own democratically elected government is the enemy.
Gun nuts are those who think the second amendment allows psychopaths access to weapons to massacre men, women, and children and defend that access as a constitutional right.
 
tumblr_m4ajtcqVSh1r5j928o1_500.gif
 
I'm sure it does. :cuckoo:

Again: Magazines are NOT brain surgery! Any fab shop can make them easily--they are bent metal & a spring. With modern CAD-CAM, you can literally scan the parts into a computer & the shop's computerized machines do the rest!

And if they were illegal some shop would risk huge fines, jail time, and being connected to a mass shooter? I don't think so.

Once more, third time: this is something that can be done in a home shop! God and goddess, it's like talking to a mental patient.
 
Again: Magazines are NOT brain surgery! Any fab shop can make them easily--they are bent metal & a spring. With modern CAD-CAM, you can literally scan the parts into a computer & the shop's computerized machines do the rest!

And if they were illegal some shop would risk huge fines, jail time, and being connected to a mass shooter? I don't think so.

Once more, third time: this is something that can be done in a home shop! God and goddess, it's like talking to a mental patient.

Ok I will repeat myself again. I would MUCH rather someone shooting at me was using a homemade magazine. Sorry but I don't think it would be very reliable. Now since you say it is so easy how about you make one and document each step with the tools used. Lots of pictures. Make sure it is for one of your more expensive guns. Then after documenting making it you can shoot it in a movie proving how great it is. Since it's so easy this shouldn't take you long.

Would a mass shooter take the time to make a magazine? I doubt it. They aren't going out of their way to get machine guns now. They are using what can be easily bought. I don't think that would change.
 
And if they were illegal some shop would risk huge fines, jail time, and being connected to a mass shooter? I don't think so.

Once more, third time: this is something that can be done in a home shop! God and goddess, it's like talking to a mental patient.

Ok I will repeat myself again. I would MUCH rather someone shooting at me was using a homemade magazine. Sorry but I don't think it would be very reliable. Now since you say it is so easy how about you make one and document each step with the tools used. Lots of pictures. Make sure it is for one of your more expensive guns. Then after documenting making it you can shoot it in a movie proving how great it is. Since it's so easy this shouldn't take you long.

Would a mass shooter take the time to make a magazine? I doubt it. They aren't going out of their way to get machine guns now. They are using what can be easily bought. I don't think that would change.

:cuckoo:

-Geaux
 
Once more, third time: this is something that can be done in a home shop! God and goddess, it's like talking to a mental patient.

Ok I will repeat myself again. I would MUCH rather someone shooting at me was using a homemade magazine. Sorry but I don't think it would be very reliable. Now since you say it is so easy how about you make one and document each step with the tools used. Lots of pictures. Make sure it is for one of your more expensive guns. Then after documenting making it you can shoot it in a movie proving how great it is. Since it's so easy this shouldn't take you long.

Would a mass shooter take the time to make a magazine? I doubt it. They aren't going out of their way to get machine guns now. They are using what can be easily bought. I don't think that would change.

:cuckoo:

-Geaux

Common sense is cuckoo to you? I'm not surprised.
 
Ok I will repeat myself again. I would MUCH rather someone shooting at me was using a homemade magazine. Sorry but I don't think it would be very reliable. Now since you say it is so easy how about you make one and document each step with the tools used. Lots of pictures. Make sure it is for one of your more expensive guns. Then after documenting making it you can shoot it in a movie proving how great it is. Since it's so easy this shouldn't take you long.

Would a mass shooter take the time to make a magazine? I doubt it. They aren't going out of their way to get machine guns now. They are using what can be easily bought. I don't think that would change.

:cuckoo:

-Geaux

Common sense is cuckoo to you? I'm not surprised.

If that's what you call your feel good plan as 'common sense', then I would hate to see what you call logical

The senate disagrees too

-Geaux
 
And if they were illegal some shop would risk huge fines, jail time, and being connected to a mass shooter? I don't think so.

Once more, third time: this is something that can be done in a home shop! God and goddess, it's like talking to a mental patient.

Ok I will repeat myself again. I would MUCH rather someone shooting at me was using a homemade magazine. Sorry but I don't think it would be very reliable. Now since you say it is so easy how about you make one and document each step with the tools used. Lots of pictures. Make sure it is for one of your more expensive guns. Then after documenting making it you can shoot it in a movie proving how great it is. Since it's so easy this shouldn't take you long.

Would a mass shooter take the time to make a magazine? I doubt it. They aren't going out of their way to get machine guns now. They are using what can be easily bought. I don't think that would change.

I do not own anything that uses a detachable magazine. (And I am not and have never claimed to be a metalworker.)
 
Once more, third time: this is something that can be done in a home shop! God and goddess, it's like talking to a mental patient.

Ok I will repeat myself again. I would MUCH rather someone shooting at me was using a homemade magazine. Sorry but I don't think it would be very reliable. Now since you say it is so easy how about you make one and document each step with the tools used. Lots of pictures. Make sure it is for one of your more expensive guns. Then after documenting making it you can shoot it in a movie proving how great it is. Since it's so easy this shouldn't take you long.

Would a mass shooter take the time to make a magazine? I doubt it. They aren't going out of their way to get machine guns now. They are using what can be easily bought. I don't think that would change.

I do not own anything that uses a detachable magazine. (And I am not and have never claimed to be a metalworker.)

So now it has gone from anyone can easily make one to you have to be a metalworker? Go figure. Want to repeat yourself a 4th time? Seeing dumb repeated makes me laugh.
 
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I have seen one my uncle made for a 1911...other than the finish, it was identical and works perfectly.

I'm sure it does. :cuckoo:

I love the solution from the gun nuts.

"We have too many weapons to do anything about it".

And

"The only responsible thing to do is arm yourself from shortly after you stop being a fetus and never let the piece out of your sight"
More proof that anti-gun loons can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.
Keep up the good work.
 
I have seen one my uncle made for a 1911...other than the finish, it was identical and works perfectly.

I'm sure it does. :cuckoo:

Again: Magazines are NOT brain surgery! Any fab shop can make them easily--they are bent metal & a spring. With modern CAD-CAM, you can literally scan the parts into a computer & the shop's computerized machines do the rest!
Dude... you're arguing with someone who is willfully ignorant and openly dishonest.
:dunno:
 
I'm sure it does. :cuckoo:

I love the solution from the gun nuts.

"We have too many weapons to do anything about it".

And

"The only responsible thing to do is arm yourself from shortly after you stop being a fetus and never let the piece out of your sight"
More proof that anti-gun loons can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.
Keep up the good work.

What part of lower capacity magazines slowing down a shooter falls under those? Seems like it is physics to me. :) You lose.
 
Sherriff's demo of how magazine size makes very little difference
2- 15 round magazines 20 seconds
3- 10 round magazines 18 seconds
5 -6 round magazines 21 seconds

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCSySuemiHU]Sherriff's demo of how magazine size makes very little difference - YouTube[/ame]
 
It is clear to anyone capable of rational thought that those who want more gun control can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

However, in the spirit of honest debate, I am happy to offer these people a chance to show otherwise.

To them, I issue this challenge: present a sound argument for more gun control.

1: Define the additional gun control measures you seek
2: Show the necessity for these measures
3: Show that these measures will meet the need you described
4: Show that these measures do not infringe upon the rights of the law abiding
5: Do all of this without arguing from emotion, ignorance, dishonesty or any other logical fallacies....

A psychopath already met all your vain attempts to justify the too many deaths that only occur in America because of the weak and irrelevant arguments you espouse like some sort of snake oil salesman. "Eric manufactured three more pipe bombs: the Charlie batch. Then he halted production until December. What he needed was guns. And that was becoming a problem.

Eric had been looking into the Brady Bill. Congress had passed the law restricting the purchase of most popular semiautomatic machine guns in 1993. A federal system of instant background checks would soon go into effect. Eric was going to have a hard time getting around that.

"Fuck you Brady!" Eric wrote in his journal. All he wanted was a couple of guns - "and thanks to your fucking bill I will probably not get any!" He wanted them only for personal protection, he joked: "Its not like I'm some psycho who would go on a shooting spree. fuckers."

Eric frequently made his research do double duty for both schoolwork and his master plan. He wrote up a short research assignment on the Brady Bill that week. It was a good idea in theory, he said, aside from the loopholes. The biggest problem was that checks applied only to licensed dealers, not private dealers. So two-thirds of the licensed dealers had just gone private. "The FBI just shot themselves in the foot," he concluded."

Eric was rational about his firepower. "As of this date I have enough explosives to kill about 100 people," he wrote. With axes, bayonets, and assorted blades, he could maybe take out ten more. That was as far as hand to-hand combat would get him. A hundred and ten people. "that just isn't enough!"

"Guns!" the entry concluded. "I need guns! Give me some fucking firearms! "
p.280 'Columbine' by Dave Cullen [bold added]

"In Leviathan, written while he was in hiding from the horrors of the British civil war, Hobbes asks us to imagine ourselves in a “state of nature” before the establishment of civil government. Without the constraint of public laws individuals live lives of perfect and total freedom. No government exists to tax them or to regulate the use of their property. In this state of nature each person has one natural right, the right “for the preservation of his own nature, that is to say, of his own life, and consequently of doing anything which, in his own judgment and reason, he shall conceive to be the aptest means thereunto.” The right to self-protection may seem like an uncontroversial starting point for thinking about politics but, Hobbes shows, taken by itself it leads to disaster. Notice that Hobbes says that a right to self-protection includes the right to individually interpret, “in his own judgment and reason,” what self-protection demands. This is where the trouble starts and precisely where, a Hobbesian would wager, the NRA’s proposals for an armed society threaten to take us." The Contemporary Condition: The N.R.A. and the New State of Nature

Gun nuts are those who think a gun is a solution.
Gut nuts are those whose fear is greater than their sense.
Gun nuts are those who think their own democratically elected government is the enemy.
Gun nuts are those who think the second amendment allows psychopaths access to weapons to massacre men, women, and children and defend that access as a constitutional right.
Not sure how or why you think any of this meets the conditions specified in the OP.

Please do try again - else, all you're doing is proving that anit-gun loons can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.
 
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Sherriff's demo of how magazine size makes very little difference
2- 15 round magazines 20 seconds
3- 10 round magazines 18 seconds
5 -6 round magazines 21 seconds

Sherriff's demo of how magazine size makes very little difference - YouTube

Yes that seems like a high stress realistic situation. I see he is only shooting straight forward at a target. I also notice that he has a nice barrel in front of him with all the magazines easy to grab. I guess a mass shooter would carry a barrel with him? :cuckoo:

Anybody else notice he only fired 5 shots from the first 6 round clip? :clap2: Fail.
 
Sherriff's demo of how magazine size makes very little difference
2- 15 round magazines 20 seconds
3- 10 round magazines 18 seconds
5 -6 round magazines 21 seconds

Sherriff's demo of how magazine size makes very little difference - YouTube

Yes that seems like a high stress realistic situation. I see he is only shooting straight forward at a target. I also notice that he has a nice barrel in front of him with all the magazines easy to grab. I guess a mass shooter would carry a barrel with him? :cuckoo:

Anybody else notice he only fired 5 shots from the first 6 round clip? :clap2: Fail.

you are a fool you think it would take any longer to wave the firearm around
 
It is clear to anyone capable of rational thought that those who want more gun control can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

However, in the spirit of honest debate, I am happy to offer these people a chance to show otherwise.

To them, I issue this challenge: present a sound argument for more gun control.

1: Define the additional gun control measures you seek
2: Show the necessity for these measures
3: Show that these measures will meet the need you described
4: Show that these measures do not infringe upon the rights of the law abiding
5: Do all of this without arguing from emotion, ignorance, dishonesty or any other logical fallacies....

A psychopath already met all your vain attempts to justify the too many deaths that only occur in America because of the weak and irrelevant arguments you espouse like some sort of snake oil salesman. "Eric manufactured three more pipe bombs: the Charlie batch. Then he halted production until December. What he needed was guns. And that was becoming a problem.

Eric had been looking into the Brady Bill. Congress had passed the law restricting the purchase of most popular semiautomatic machine guns in 1993. A federal system of instant background checks would soon go into effect. Eric was going to have a hard time getting around that.

"Fuck you Brady!" Eric wrote in his journal. All he wanted was a couple of guns - "and thanks to your fucking bill I will probably not get any!" He wanted them only for personal protection, he joked: "Its not like I'm some psycho who would go on a shooting spree. fuckers."

Eric frequently made his research do double duty for both schoolwork and his master plan. He wrote up a short research assignment on the Brady Bill that week. It was a good idea in theory, he said, aside from the loopholes. The biggest problem was that checks applied only to licensed dealers, not private dealers. So two-thirds of the licensed dealers had just gone private. "The FBI just shot themselves in the foot," he concluded."

Eric was rational about his firepower. "As of this date I have enough explosives to kill about 100 people," he wrote. With axes, bayonets, and assorted blades, he could maybe take out ten more. That was as far as hand to-hand combat would get him. A hundred and ten people. "that just isn't enough!"

"Guns!" the entry concluded. "I need guns! Give me some fucking firearms! "
p.280 'Columbine' by Dave Cullen [bold added]

"In Leviathan, written while he was in hiding from the horrors of the British civil war, Hobbes asks us to imagine ourselves in a “state of nature” before the establishment of civil government. Without the constraint of public laws individuals live lives of perfect and total freedom. No government exists to tax them or to regulate the use of their property. In this state of nature each person has one natural right, the right “for the preservation of his own nature, that is to say, of his own life, and consequently of doing anything which, in his own judgment and reason, he shall conceive to be the aptest means thereunto.” The right to self-protection may seem like an uncontroversial starting point for thinking about politics but, Hobbes shows, taken by itself it leads to disaster. Notice that Hobbes says that a right to self-protection includes the right to individually interpret, “in his own judgment and reason,” what self-protection demands. This is where the trouble starts and precisely where, a Hobbesian would wager, the NRA’s proposals for an armed society threaten to take us." The Contemporary Condition: The N.R.A. and the New State of Nature

Gun nuts are those who think a gun is a solution.
Gut nuts are those whose fear is greater than their sense.
Gun nuts are those who think their own democratically elected government is the enemy.
Gun nuts are those who think the second amendment allows psychopaths access to weapons to massacre men, women, and children and defend that access as a constitutional right.
Not sure how or why you think any of this meets the conditions specified in the OP.

Please do try again - else, all you're doing is proving that anit-gun loons can only argue from emotion, ignorance and/or dishonesty.

exactly
 
Ok I will repeat myself again. I would MUCH rather someone shooting at me was using a homemade magazine. Sorry but I don't think it would be very reliable. Now since you say it is so easy how about you make one and document each step with the tools used. Lots of pictures. Make sure it is for one of your more expensive guns. Then after documenting making it you can shoot it in a movie proving how great it is. Since it's so easy this shouldn't take you long.

Would a mass shooter take the time to make a magazine? I doubt it. They aren't going out of their way to get machine guns now. They are using what can be easily bought. I don't think that would change.

I do not own anything that uses a detachable magazine. (And I am not and have never claimed to be a metalworker.)

So now it has gone from anyone can easily make one to you have to be a metalworker? Go figure. Want to repeat yourself a 4th time? Seeing dumb repeated makes me laugh.

Is that why you print out your own posts and plaster them everywhere, then?

Anyone with a home metal shop can make them...my uncle can (and did) make one in his garage. I do not have the required tools in my shop (mostly, I do not have a metal brake or a press) to do so...though a high school metal shop usually will! (Mine did.)
 
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I do not own anything that uses a detachable magazine. (And I am not and have never claimed to be a metalworker.)

So now it has gone from anyone can easily make one to you have to be a metalworker? Go figure. Want to repeat yourself a 4th time? Seeing dumb repeated makes me laugh.

Is that why you print out your own posts and plaster them everywhere, then?

Anyone with a home metal shop can make them...my uncle can (and did) make one in his garage. I do not have the required tools in my shop (mostly, I do not have a metal brake or a press) to do so...though a high school metal shop usually will! (Mine did.)

Anyone with a home metal shop can make them..

dont need anything that fancy a few hand tools and presto
 

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