Was Trump Wiretapped? Just the facts.

[jc456]

I think I already said - that at this point, the only "evidence" that Trump "colluded" with Putin is very circumstantial in exactly the why you're infering - all those contacts could be perfectly normal contacts. It's worth an investigation though, for two reasons (imo) - one, it's against the back drop of attempted Russian interference in our election, and two - to definitively clear it up and move on.

The investigation should be on Russia's interference in our election.

Obviously, if Russia colluded with the Trump campaign, that would be a part of it.

But thus far, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of it.

That's how I see it.

I think essentially it's how most people see it, or should see it.

All these accusations without any concrete evidence being publicly presented is reckless, it's fuelling all sorts of crazed Conspiracy Theories which make InfoWars look normal and the MSM who are at the forefront of pushing this stuff 24/7 should be told to STFU until all investigations have been completed.

No - We have the right to see it unfold, to see every bit of it.

Its looking more and more like it originated with faux and a weird rant by Mark Levin. When drumpf is caught, that's who he will blame. Its what he has done in the past - blamed someone else.

Mea culpa is the only way I can see out of this for Trump.

(For those of you who are not Catholic that is Latin for "my fault".)

He has as much evidence that dems have on any Russian influence. Ready to give that up yet? LOL

 

[Luddly Neddite]

For people who care - this is definitely worth reading:

The people’s tyrant: what Plato can teach us about Donald Trump

I don't think your type has ever read Plato, let alone heard of him, intellectually he's way out of your league.

Well, Lucy, that's beside the point. Do you agree with the article?

I have never heard of vox.com before, however any article that automatically has the below hysterical sub-headline should be filed under Moonbat and Mother Jones Jr.

"Trump put fascism on the ballot this year, and millions of people said “yes.”

This is the sort of person who has been allowed to write for vox.com.

"In June 2016, Vox suspended contributor Emmett Rensin for a series of tweets calling for anti-Trump riots, including one on June 3, 2016 that urged, "If Trump comes to your town, start a riot." The tweets drew attention after violent anti-Trump protests took place in San Jose, California on the day of Rensin's tweet."

Have you ever heard of Plato and Socrates? Their political views have been widely published.

Hey, if its not on the state sanctioned news source -- Brietbart, Jones -- there are many who just don't think its worth reading. And we all know how those RWs hate elitist education.

 

[Billy000]

No spin. No smoke and mirrors. No conjecture. Was he wire tapped? If that can't be answered everything else is Conspiracy Theory material of attempting to create links between unrelated incidents.

At this point, it see - the whole wire-tap claim is unsubstantiated and taking on the guise of a conspiracy theory.

From: Analysis | Donald Trump was a conspiracy-theory candidate. Now he’s on the edge of being a conspiracy-theory president.

The problem here, of course, is that what Levin — and Breitbart — use as evidence for these claims are a series of seemingly unconnected events — from FISA court requests to Trump joking about the Russia email hack, to the release of Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta’s emails in the fall. The proof that all — or any — of these events are tied together by actual facts as opposed to supposition is not offered.


The idea that Obama’s administration authorized — and was able to get approval for — the wiretapping of the opposition party’s candidate for president is, frankly, far-fetched. And, if someone is making that claim — as Trump is now doing — the burden of proof is on them. If you are going to say there is a grand conspiracy that only you and a handful of others see, you need to offer a step-by-step explanation to the broader public to show why you’re right.


It seems unlikely — given Trump’s past pattern of making baseless claims without proof and then simply insisting he is right and no evidence is needed to prove the point — that any meaningful effort will be made by the Trump administration to connect the dots on this alleged wiretapping conspiracy.​

From the LA Times: Citing no evidence, Trump accuses Obama of tapping his phones during the election

It would be highly unusual for a sitting president to be aware of such [surveillance] requests. By blaming Obama directly, Trump accused the former president of reaching into a federal investigation and signing off on an illegal wiretap, which is a felony.


If federal investigators did monitor Trump’s phones or computers lawfully, a court would have demanded information about potential criminal misconduct or unlawful foreign contacts. Such investigations are closely held and rarely, if ever, shared with the White House.


It is possible Trump has no evidence his phones were tapped and is repeating unfounded reports circulating in conservative media circles. ​

There is a lot of smoke, mirrors and redirection going on here, an attempt I'm sure, to distract from the demands for an investigation into Russian ties with the Trump campaign.

Rather than blowing this up into a full blown conspiracy theory, how about looking at actual evidence?

First question to answer is: is there any hard evidence that Trump Tower was indeed wire tapped? If we can't answer that, the rest is meaningless distraction.

From the Washington Post: Analysis | Trump’s ‘evidence’ for Obama wiretap claims relies on sketchy, anonymously sourced reports

Trump’s ‘evidence’ for Obama wiretap claims relies on sketchy, anonymously sourced reports

Brietbart article on FISA Requests: June & October. Breitbart based it's article entirely on one source: and article written by Louise Mensch, a former Tory member of the British Parliament and an independent journalist for Heat Street. But no one seems to be able to independently confirm the claim.

The Washington Post for months has sought to confirm this report of a FISA warrant related to the Trump campaign but has been unable to do so. Presumably other U.S. news organizations have tried to do so as well. So one has to take this claim with a huge dose of skepticism. Indeed, the New York Times reported before the election that the FBI “ultimately concluded that there could be an innocuous explanation, like a marketing email or spam, for the computer contacts” with the Russian banks.​

According to the WP article:

The White House provided three other sources. Two, a National Review article and a Fox News interview, are simply derivative of the Heat Street article, with no independent confirmation. The third is a New York Times report that intelligence agencies “are examining intercepted communications and financial transactions” as part of a probe of possible links between Russian officials and Trump campaign aides. (We recall the president has previously deemed Times reporting on this matter as “fake news.”)​

The article goes on to conclude:

Only two articles, both with British roots, have reported that a FISA court order was granted in October to examine possible activity between two Russian banks and a computer server in the Trump Tower. This claim has not been confirmed by a U.S. news organizations. Moreover, neither article says President Obama requested the order or that it resulted in the tapping of Trump’s phone lines.​

And lastly:

Moreover, the articles do not support the White House’s claim that these were “potentially politically motivated investigations” led by President Obama. The articles all suggest the FISA requests — if they happened — were done by the intelligence agencies and the FBI.​

So, before we have this huge political uproar, and immediate comparisons to Watergate, lets' get at the facts first. Can anyone answer these questions?

1. Was Trump wiretapped? If yes - what evidence? Were bugs found in Trump Tower?

2. Were FISA requests issued? If yes - can the claims be confirmed by more then one source and for what specifically were they for?

Until those are answered - there's nothing but smoke.

Oh Coyote. You forget that anything besides garbage like Breitbart or Infowars is "fake news" to Trump simpletons on this forum.

 

[jc456]

For people who care - this is definitely worth reading:

The people’s tyrant: what Plato can teach us about Donald Trump

I don't think your type has ever read Plato, let alone heard of him, intellectually he's way out of your league.

Well, Lucy, that's beside the point. Do you agree with the article?

I have never heard of vox.com before, however any article that automatically has the below hysterical sub-headline should be filed under Moonbat and Mother Jones Jr.

"Trump put fascism on the ballot this year, and millions of people said “yes.”

This is the sort of person who has been allowed to write for vox.com.

"In June 2016, Vox suspended contributor Emmett Rensin for a series of tweets calling for anti-Trump riots, including one on June 3, 2016 that urged, "If Trump comes to your town, start a riot." The tweets drew attention after violent anti-Trump protests took place in San Jose, California on the day of Rensin's tweet."

Have you ever heard of Plato and Socrates? Their political views have been widely published.

Hey, if its not on the state sanctioned news source -- Brietbart, Jones -- there are many who just don't think its worth reading. And we all know how those RWs hate elitist education.

Just fake news from pretendland

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

“We don’t know what the Russians have on Donald Trump. And we need — and we need to see, if anything — we need to see his tax returns.”

— Sen. Al Franken (D-MN), quoted by ABC News.
CLAPPER DENIES WIRETAP ALLEGATION
FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE REBUTS TRUMP

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

And we will also see the SSDD from the rabid RWs ^^^

Once its proven that President Obama could not have and did not 'tapps his wires', the RWNJs will continue to repeat it as if its fact. Its what they do. Bet on it.

This turned out to be the first actual evidence that DJT is actually insane.

The Donald would not Tweet such a thing unless he had evidence, not knowing that the whole planet would get to read such a Tweet.

 

[jc456]

“We don’t know what the Russians have on Donald Trump. And we need — and we need to see, if anything — we need to see his tax returns.”

— Sen. Al Franken (D-MN), quoted by ABC News.
CLAPPER DENIES WIRETAP ALLEGATION
FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE REBUTS TRUMP

You mean you have nothing suggesting trump did anything and you want an investigation? You think that's legal? First one has to have evidence of something, there is absolutely nothing too funny

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Trump Is His Own Worst Enemy
by BooMan
Sun Mar 5th, 2017 at 01:13:01 PM EST

..........................................

What Trump did in demanding that Congress investigate whether, why and how he or his associates were surveilled during the campaign is to give away his best defense against this ending his presidency.

How?


His best defense was to rely on the fact that no one in the intelligence community has permission to talk about any of this, and that he could rely on the Republican Congress to keep it that way.

 

[jc456]

Trump Is His Own Worst Enemy
by BooMan
Sun Mar 5th, 2017 at 01:13:01 PM EST

..........................................

What Trump did in demanding that Congress investigate whether, why and how he or his associates were surveilled during the campaign is to give away his best defense against this ending his presidency.

How?


His best defense was to rely on the fact that no one in the intelligence community has permission to talk about any of this, and that he could rely on the Republican Congress to keep it that way.

Or

 

[WaitingFor2020]

So far there is no evidence indicating any such thing.

Kind of what I thought but there is so much smoke, everyone is running around screaming and having hysterics. Like to know if there is any actual evidence yet.

Note: claims of a massive Obama administration and news media conspiracy to dethrone Trump do not constitute evidence...

Trump is the only one screaming and having hysterics. His cabinet and staff are having a meltdown. I'd like to see what they've got stocked in their bathroom cabinets.

 

[jc456]

So far there is no evidence indicating any such thing.

Kind of what I thought but there is so much smoke, everyone is running around screaming and having hysterics. Like to know if there is any actual evidence yet.

Note: claims of a massive Obama administration and news media conspiracy to dethrone Trump do not constitute evidence...

Trump is the only one screaming and having hysterics. His cabinet and staff are having a meltdown. I'd like to see what they've got stocked in their bathroom cabinets.

Funny, dems got shit on any Russian shit and we're in month four now. I'd say the drugs are in the democrats cabinet

 

[Slade3200]

Flynn got fired, that's enough hard evidence to justify the questions. How can you deny that?

Flynn was fired for not telling the truth to the VP about his contact with the Russians. At this point, there has been no evidence provided that said contact had anything to do with the Trump campaign, policy, or sanctions.

If any of the above were in fact what they talked about, then that information came from a wiretap.

As for the wiretap, I am not sure Obama "ordered" them. What I am sure about is that if the wiretapping of Trump Towers was actually authorized by the FISA Court then Obama knew about it and received briefings about it.

What should be of major concern to ALL Americans is that, if true, an Administration uses the power of the courts, law enforcement and intelligence agencies against a political opponent. It stinks of tyranny and should frighten everyone of any political persuasion

If there was a tap then there was evidence and cause for a judge to issue the go ahead. Flynn was fired for lying. Take it an extra step, why did he lie? Why did the administration lie for weeks about the 5 other staffers that all met with the Russian ambassador. There wasn't anything wrong with the meetings. It's the lies that draw suspicion. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

So far there is no evidence indicating any such thing.

Kind of what I thought but there is so much smoke, everyone is running around screaming and having hysterics. Like to know if there is any actual evidence yet.

Note: claims of a massive Obama administration and news media conspiracy to dethrone Trump do not constitute evidence...

Trump is the only one screaming and having hysterics. His cabinet and staff are having a meltdown. I'd like to see what they've got stocked in their bathroom cabinets.

Funny, dems got shit on any Russian shit and we're in month four now. I'd say the drugs are in the democrats cabinet

On January 19th, the birdcage liner reported that the F.B.I. ie. James Comey and the NSA and the C.I.A had found no conclusive evidence of wrongdoing and that some of their reports were based on wiretapping communications.

Now James Comey is saying there was no wiretapping?

Also three of the four below Hacks have written nearly every Hearsay article about Trump being an Agent of Putin, always the three together, sometimes this other Hack Matt Apuzzo joins them.

 

[yiostheoy]

The only thing that DJT accomplished this weekend was to erase all his goodwill from his teleprompter speech.

Now he is back in the doghouse.

I just hope that the next 3 sentences we hear out of him are "Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea culpa."

 

[jc456]

The only thing that DJT accomplished this weekend was to erase all his goodwill from his teleprompter speech.

Now he is back in the doghouse.

I just hope that the next 3 sentences we hear out of him are "Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea culpa."

Or mr. Obummer you're under arrest

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

The only thing that DJT accomplished this weekend was to erase all his goodwill from his teleprompter speech.

Now he is back in the doghouse.

I just hope that the next 3 sentences we hear out of him are "Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea culpa."

DNC Insider says Obama White House wiretapped Trump, the below is from March 4th, yesterday.



Intelligence Officer says that Obama was involved in wiretapping Trump Tower, the below is also from yesterday.

 

[Siete]

The only thing that DJT accomplished this weekend was to erase all his goodwill from his teleprompter speech.

Now he is back in the doghouse.

I just hope that the next 3 sentences we hear out of him are "Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea culpa."

DNC Insider says Obama White House wiretapped Trump, the below is from March 4th, yesterday.



Intelligence Officer says that Obama was involved in wiretapping Trump Tower, the below is also from yesterday.

'

so you believe that intelligence officer ?

good for you.

then you must believe these 17 too ..

The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities."

dont you lucee ..

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

The only thing that DJT accomplished this weekend was to erase all his goodwill from his teleprompter speech.

Now he is back in the doghouse.

I just hope that the next 3 sentences we hear out of him are "Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea culpa."

DNC Insider says Obama White House wiretapped Trump, the below is from March 4th, yesterday.



Intelligence Officer says that Obama was involved in wiretapping Trump Tower, the below is also from yesterday.

'

so you believe that intelligence officer ?

good for you.

then you must believe these 17 too ..

The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process. Such activity is not new to Moscow—the Russians have used similar tactics and techniques across Europe and Eurasia, for example, to influence public opinion there. We believe, based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, that only Russia's senior-most officials could have authorized these activities."

dont you lucee ..

"The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts."

So they have no actual proof, it's all alleged and because it fits The Narrative ie. Putin/Russia are the cause of ALL the evils in the ENTIRE WORLD, then it must be the Russians EVEN thought NOBODY has provided ANY concrete evidence and it's all alleged.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

The only thing that DJT accomplished this weekend was to erase all his goodwill from his teleprompter speech.

Now he is back in the doghouse.

I just hope that the next 3 sentences we hear out of him are "Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea culpa."

Or mr. Obummer you're under arrest

 

[Contumacious]

No spin. No smoke and mirrors. No conjecture. Was he wire tapped? If that can't be answered everything else is Conspiracy Theory material of attempting to create links between unrelated incidents.

At this point, it see - the whole wire-tap claim is unsubstantiated and taking on the guise of a conspiracy theory.

From: Analysis | Donald Trump was a conspiracy-theory candidate. Now he’s on the edge of being a conspiracy-theory president.

The problem here, of course, is that what Levin — and Breitbart — use as evidence for these claims are a series of seemingly unconnected events — from FISA court requests to Trump joking about the Russia email hack, to the release of Hillary Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta’s emails in the fall. The proof that all — or any — of these events are tied together by actual facts as opposed to supposition is not offered.


The idea that Obama’s administration authorized — and was able to get approval for — the wiretapping of the opposition party’s candidate for president is, frankly, far-fetched. And, if someone is making that claim — as Trump is now doing — the burden of proof is on them. If you are going to say there is a grand conspiracy that only you and a handful of others see, you need to offer a step-by-step explanation to the broader public to show why you’re right.


It seems unlikely — given Trump’s past pattern of making baseless claims without proof and then simply insisting he is right and no evidence is needed to prove the point — that any meaningful effort will be made by the Trump administration to connect the dots on this alleged wiretapping conspiracy.​

From the LA Times: Citing no evidence, Trump accuses Obama of tapping his phones during the election

It would be highly unusual for a sitting president to be aware of such [surveillance] requests. By blaming Obama directly, Trump accused the former president of reaching into a federal investigation and signing off on an illegal wiretap, which is a felony.


If federal investigators did monitor Trump’s phones or computers lawfully, a court would have demanded information about potential criminal misconduct or unlawful foreign contacts. Such investigations are closely held and rarely, if ever, shared with the White House.


It is possible Trump has no evidence his phones were tapped and is repeating unfounded reports circulating in conservative media circles. ​

There is a lot of smoke, mirrors and redirection going on here, an attempt I'm sure, to distract from the demands for an investigation into Russian ties with the Trump campaign.

Rather than blowing this up into a full blown conspiracy theory, how about looking at actual evidence?

First question to answer is: is there any hard evidence that Trump Tower was indeed wire tapped? If we can't answer that, the rest is meaningless distraction.

From the Washington Post: Analysis | Trump’s ‘evidence’ for Obama wiretap claims relies on sketchy, anonymously sourced reports

Trump’s ‘evidence’ for Obama wiretap claims relies on sketchy, anonymously sourced reports

Brietbart article on FISA Requests: June & October. Breitbart based it's article entirely on one source: and article written by Louise Mensch, a former Tory member of the British Parliament and an independent journalist for Heat Street. But no one seems to be able to independently confirm the claim.

The Washington Post for months has sought to confirm this report of a FISA warrant related to the Trump campaign but has been unable to do so. Presumably other U.S. news organizations have tried to do so as well. So one has to take this claim with a huge dose of skepticism. Indeed, the New York Times reported before the election that the FBI “ultimately concluded that there could be an innocuous explanation, like a marketing email or spam, for the computer contacts” with the Russian banks.​

According to the WP article:

The White House provided three other sources. Two, a National Review article and a Fox News interview, are simply derivative of the Heat Street article, with no independent confirmation. The third is a New York Times report that intelligence agencies “are examining intercepted communications and financial transactions” as part of a probe of possible links between Russian officials and Trump campaign aides. (We recall the president has previously deemed Times reporting on this matter as “fake news.”)​

The article goes on to conclude:

Only two articles, both with British roots, have reported that a FISA court order was granted in October to examine possible activity between two Russian banks and a computer server in the Trump Tower. This claim has not been confirmed by a U.S. news organizations. Moreover, neither article says President Obama requested the order or that it resulted in the tapping of Trump’s phone lines.​

And lastly:

Moreover, the articles do not support the White House’s claim that these were “potentially politically motivated investigations” led by President Obama. The articles all suggest the FISA requests — if they happened — were done by the intelligence agencies and the FBI.​

So, before we have this huge political uproar, and immediate comparisons to Watergate, lets' get at the facts first. Can anyone answer these questions?

1. Was Trump wiretapped? If yes - what evidence? Were bugs found in Trump Tower?

2. Were FISA requests issued? If yes - can the claims be confirmed by more then one source and for what specifically were they for?

Until those are answered - there's nothing but smoke.

The stories currently are three-fold:




first, that Obama’s team tried to get a warrant from a regular, Article III federal court on Trump, and was told no by someone along the way (maybe the FBI), as the evidence was that weak or non-existent;



second, Obama’s team then tried to circumvent the federal judiciary’s independent role by trying to mislabel the issue one of “foreign agents,” and tried to obtain a warrant from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act “courts”, and were again turned down, when the court saw Trump named (an extremely rare act of FISA court refusal of the government, suggesting the evidence was truly non-existent against Trump); and so,



third, Obama circumvented both the regular command of the FBI and the regularly appointed federal courts, by placing the entire case as a FISA case (and apparently under Sally Yates at DOJ) as a “foreign” case, and then omitted Trump’s name from a surveillance warrant submitted to the FISA court, which the FISA court unwittingly granted, which Obama then misused to spy on Trump and many connected to Trump.


I believe scenario three is the one that occurred


..


.