We the People

[Skylar]

Please present your argument for whatever point you're trying to make.

If the Republican presidential nominee is the result of a brokered convention, and a second ballot is presented, I'm sure you are aware that the delegates can vote as they please; therefore, nullifying we the people.

A republican nomination isn't a constitutional process. Its a political party process. A private function that uses whatever methodology that the political party wishes.

Thus, it has nothing to do with 'we the people'. Its constitutionally irrelevant. You might as well be complaining about how an American Idol finalist is selected for as much constitutional relevance as it has.

So, forget about the 12th Amendment?

Electors don't vote in political party nominations. And the 12th amendment makes no mention of political party delegates.

Did you forget to read the 12th amendment?

I'm going to talk to the wall now.

Perhaps the wall will inform you that electors don't vote in a political party convention. Because it seems to be a point that you missed.

Political party conventions are not a constitutional process. They have nothing to do with the constitution. Its a private political organization determining who will represent that organization in an election.

The constitution plays no role in that private organizations determinations of its own leadership or representation.

 

[Lilah]

If the Republican presidential nominee is the result of a brokered convention, and a second ballot is presented, I'm sure you are aware that the delegates can vote as they please; therefore, nullifying we the people.

A republican nomination isn't a constitutional process. Its a political party process. A private function that uses whatever methodology that the political party wishes.

Thus, it has nothing to do with 'we the people'. Its constitutionally irrelevant. You might as well be complaining about how an American Idol finalist is selected for as much constitutional relevance as it has.

So, forget about the 12th Amendment?

Electors don't vote in political party nominations. And the 12th amendment makes no mention of political party delegates.

Did you forget to read the 12th amendment?

I'm going to talk to the wall now.

Perhaps the wall will inform you that electors don't vote in a political party convention. Because it seems to be a point that you missed.

Political party conventions are not a constitutional process. They have nothing to do with the constitution. Its a private political organization determining who will represent that organization in an election.

The constitution plays no role in that private organizations determinations of its own leadership or representation.

Good luck to ya.

 

[Centinel]

It's an agreement made between sovereign independent states. That's what a treaty is.

Says you. Show us any language in the constitution that indicates the constitution is a 'treaty'.

Its simple: your standards apply to you. And your argument can't meet your own standards. Meaning that even by your own standards, your argument is meaningless.

Surely you can understand why I don't have much use for it.

I don't recall saying that explicit language is my standard, no.

Perhaps this will refresh your memory:

So you can't cite any language in the constitution that indicates the the states have relinquished their sovereignty. I assumed as much.

Yet when I note that you can't cite any language in the constitution that indicates that the states are 'nations' or that the constitution is a 'international treaty'.......suddenly your standard doesn't exist anymore. And you can't remember it ever existing.

If not for double standards, you'd have none at all.

Where's the quote of me saying, "Explicit language is my standard"? As I said before, I don't ever recall saying that explicit language is my standard.

You used the ' cite any language in the constitution that indicates' standard. Which your argument fails.

The fact remains that the states were independent, sovereign states.

They were. Not anymore. The sovereign is the Several States. With their agent being the Federal Government.

If you don't consider that a treaty, I don't really care all that much.

Apparently the founders didn't care either. As they never called the constitution a treaty.

That would be you, citing yourself. And no one really cares.

Also, none of this is relevant to my original point, which was that the constitution was established between the states.

With the States being agents of the people. With 'We the People of the United States' being the creators of the Constitution, using these agents.

Yes, each state being the agent of the people of that particular state. And the constitution was established between these sovereign, independent states.

With the Constitution created by We the People of the United States. Using States as their agents.

Yes, the constitution was written by delegates of the states and ratified by the states. Each state, of course, is the agent of the people of that state.

 

[Skylar]

A republican nomination isn't a constitutional process. Its a political party process. A private function that uses whatever methodology that the political party wishes.

Thus, it has nothing to do with 'we the people'. Its constitutionally irrelevant. You might as well be complaining about how an American Idol finalist is selected for as much constitutional relevance as it has.

So, forget about the 12th Amendment?

Electors don't vote in political party nominations. And the 12th amendment makes no mention of political party delegates.

Did you forget to read the 12th amendment?

I'm going to talk to the wall now.

Perhaps the wall will inform you that electors don't vote in a political party convention. Because it seems to be a point that you missed.

Political party conventions are not a constitutional process. They have nothing to do with the constitution. Its a private political organization determining who will represent that organization in an election.

The constitution plays no role in that private organizations determinations of its own leadership or representation.

Good luck to ya.

Shrugs....I don't know what to tell you. You fundamentally misunderstood what a political party convention is.

I'll give you a hint: its got jack shit to do with Electors. All conventions are done for months by the time the first Elector is even seated.

 

[Skylar]

Says you. Show us any language in the constitution that indicates the constitution is a 'treaty'.

Its simple: your standards apply to you. And your argument can't meet your own standards. Meaning that even by your own standards, your argument is meaningless.

Surely you can understand why I don't have much use for it.

Perhaps this will refresh your memory:

Yet when I note that you can't cite any language in the constitution that indicates that the states are 'nations' or that the constitution is a 'international treaty'.......suddenly your standard doesn't exist anymore. And you can't remember it ever existing.

If not for double standards, you'd have none at all.

Where's the quote of me saying, "Explicit language is my standard"? As I said before, I don't ever recall saying that explicit language is my standard.

You used the ' cite any language in the constitution that indicates' standard. Which your argument fails.

The fact remains that the states were independent, sovereign states.

They were. Not anymore. The sovereign is the Several States. With their agent being the Federal Government.

If you don't consider that a treaty, I don't really care all that much.

Apparently the founders didn't care either. As they never called the constitution a treaty.

That would be you, citing yourself. And no one really cares.

Also, none of this is relevant to my original point, which was that the constitution was established between the states.

With the States being agents of the people. With 'We the People of the United States' being the creators of the Constitution, using these agents.

Yes, each state being the agent of the people of that particular state. And the constitution was established between these sovereign, independent states.

With the Constitution created by We the People of the United States. Using States as their agents.

Yes, the constitution was written by delegates of the states and ratified by the states. Each state, of course, is the agent of the people of that state.

It didn't say 'We the Delegates'. It said 'We the People of the United States'. The People are the principle. The States are their agent.

 

[Lilah]

So, forget about the 12th Amendment?

Electors don't vote in political party nominations. And the 12th amendment makes no mention of political party delegates.

Did you forget to read the 12th amendment?

I'm going to talk to the wall now.

Perhaps the wall will inform you that electors don't vote in a political party convention. Because it seems to be a point that you missed.

Political party conventions are not a constitutional process. They have nothing to do with the constitution. Its a private political organization determining who will represent that organization in an election.

The constitution plays no role in that private organizations determinations of its own leadership or representation.

Good luck to ya.

Shrugs....I don't know what to tell you. You fundamentally misunderstood what a political party convention is.

I'll give you a hint: its got jack shit to do with Electors. All conventions are done for months by the time the first Elector is even seated.

Will you be taking your how on the road?

 

[Lilah]

Where's the quote of me saying, "Explicit language is my standard"? As I said before, I don't ever recall saying that explicit language is my standard.

You used the ' cite any language in the constitution that indicates' standard. Which your argument fails.

The fact remains that the states were independent, sovereign states.

They were. Not anymore. The sovereign is the Several States. With their agent being the Federal Government.

If you don't consider that a treaty, I don't really care all that much.

Apparently the founders didn't care either. As they never called the constitution a treaty.

That would be you, citing yourself. And no one really cares.

Also, none of this is relevant to my original point, which was that the constitution was established between the states.

With the States being agents of the people. With 'We the People of the United States' being the creators of the Constitution, using these agents.

Yes, each state being the agent of the people of that particular state. And the constitution was established between these sovereign, independent states.

With the Constitution created by We the People of the United States. Using States as their agents.

Yes, the constitution was written by delegates of the states and ratified by the states. Each state, of course, is the agent of the people of that state.

It didn't say 'We the Delegates'. It said 'We the People of the United States'. The People are the principle. The States are their agent.

Who were the people?

 

[Skylar]

Electors don't vote in political party nominations. And the 12th amendment makes no mention of political party delegates.

Did you forget to read the 12th amendment?

I'm going to talk to the wall now.

Perhaps the wall will inform you that electors don't vote in a political party convention. Because it seems to be a point that you missed.

Political party conventions are not a constitutional process. They have nothing to do with the constitution. Its a private political organization determining who will represent that organization in an election.

The constitution plays no role in that private organizations determinations of its own leadership or representation.

Good luck to ya.

Shrugs....I don't know what to tell you. You fundamentally misunderstood what a political party convention is.

I'll give you a hint: its got jack shit to do with Electors. All conventions are done for months by the time the first Elector is even seated.

Will you be taking your how on the road?

Do you seriously not understand that Electors don't vote in political party conventions?

See, cause proceeds effect. The electors (your 'cause') are seated and vote AFTER your effect (brokered republican convention).

Your understanding of this process is literally contradicted by physics. You've confused delegates and electors.

 

[Skylar]

You used the ' cite any language in the constitution that indicates' standard. Which your argument fails.

They were. Not anymore. The sovereign is the Several States. With their agent being the Federal Government.

Apparently the founders didn't care either. As they never called the constitution a treaty.

That would be you, citing yourself. And no one really cares.

With the States being agents of the people. With 'We the People of the United States' being the creators of the Constitution, using these agents.

Yes, each state being the agent of the people of that particular state. And the constitution was established between these sovereign, independent states.

With the Constitution created by We the People of the United States. Using States as their agents.

Yes, the constitution was written by delegates of the states and ratified by the states. Each state, of course, is the agent of the people of that state.

It didn't say 'We the Delegates'. It said 'We the People of the United States'. The People are the principle. The States are their agent.

Who were the people?

The people of the several states. Specifically, the people of a significant majority of States.

 

[Lilah]

Yes, each state being the agent of the people of that particular state. And the constitution was established between these sovereign, independent states.

With the Constitution created by We the People of the United States. Using States as their agents.

Yes, the constitution was written by delegates of the states and ratified by the states. Each state, of course, is the agent of the people of that state.

It didn't say 'We the Delegates'. It said 'We the People of the United States'. The People are the principle. The States are their agent.

Who were the people?

The people of the several states. Specifically, the people of a significant majority of States.

Did it include blacks, women and Indians?

 

[Centinel]

Where's the quote of me saying, "Explicit language is my standard"? As I said before, I don't ever recall saying that explicit language is my standard.

You used the ' cite any language in the constitution that indicates' standard. Which your argument fails.

The fact remains that the states were independent, sovereign states.

They were. Not anymore. The sovereign is the Several States. With their agent being the Federal Government.

If you don't consider that a treaty, I don't really care all that much.

Apparently the founders didn't care either. As they never called the constitution a treaty.

That would be you, citing yourself. And no one really cares.

Also, none of this is relevant to my original point, which was that the constitution was established between the states.

With the States being agents of the people. With 'We the People of the United States' being the creators of the Constitution, using these agents.

Yes, each state being the agent of the people of that particular state. And the constitution was established between these sovereign, independent states.

With the Constitution created by We the People of the United States. Using States as their agents.

Yes, the constitution was written by delegates of the states and ratified by the states. Each state, of course, is the agent of the people of that state.

It didn't say 'We the Delegates'. It said 'We the People of the United States'. The People are the principle. The States are their agent.

The delegates were speaking for the people of their states, obviously. And the constitution was established between the states that ratified it. Had any of the states not ratified it, that state wouldn't have been in the new union.

 

[Skylar]

With the Constitution created by We the People of the United States. Using States as their agents.

Yes, the constitution was written by delegates of the states and ratified by the states. Each state, of course, is the agent of the people of that state.

It didn't say 'We the Delegates'. It said 'We the People of the United States'. The People are the principle. The States are their agent.

Who were the people?

The people of the several states. Specifically, the people of a significant majority of States.

Did it include blacks, women and Indians?

Yes, at 3/5ths ratio, yes, and no.

 

[Skylar]

You used the ' cite any language in the constitution that indicates' standard. Which your argument fails.

They were. Not anymore. The sovereign is the Several States. With their agent being the Federal Government.

Apparently the founders didn't care either. As they never called the constitution a treaty.

That would be you, citing yourself. And no one really cares.

With the States being agents of the people. With 'We the People of the United States' being the creators of the Constitution, using these agents.

Yes, each state being the agent of the people of that particular state. And the constitution was established between these sovereign, independent states.

With the Constitution created by We the People of the United States. Using States as their agents.

Yes, the constitution was written by delegates of the states and ratified by the states. Each state, of course, is the agent of the people of that state.

It didn't say 'We the Delegates'. It said 'We the People of the United States'. The People are the principle. The States are their agent.

The delegates were speaking for the people of their states, obviously.

The delegates didn't cite themselves as the creators of the constitution. They cited the People of the United States.

And the constitution was established between the states that ratified it. Had any of the states not ratified it, that state wouldn't have been in the new union.

The States agents of We the People. Just as the Federal government is the agents of the Several States.

 

[Centinel]

Yes, each state being the agent of the people of that particular state. And the constitution was established between these sovereign, independent states.

With the Constitution created by We the People of the United States. Using States as their agents.

Yes, the constitution was written by delegates of the states and ratified by the states. Each state, of course, is the agent of the people of that state.

It didn't say 'We the Delegates'. It said 'We the People of the United States'. The People are the principle. The States are their agent.

The delegates were speaking for the people of their states, obviously.

The delegates didn't cite themselves as the creators of the constitution. They cited the People of the United States.

And the constitution was established between the states that ratified it. Had any of the states not ratified it, that state wouldn't have been in the new union.

The States agents of We the People. Just as the Federal government is the agents of the Several States.

Yes, they cited the people of their states. Each delegate represented and spoke for the people of his state, thus he could speak as/for the people of his state. The delegate from, for example, Pennsylvania felt he could speak for the people of Pennsylvania.

So the delegates wrote the constitution, and the states ratified it, thus establishing it between each of the ratifying states.

 

[Lilah]

Yes, the constitution was written by delegates of the states and ratified by the states. Each state, of course, is the agent of the people of that state.

It didn't say 'We the Delegates'. It said 'We the People of the United States'. The People are the principle. The States are their agent.

Who were the people?

The people of the several states. Specifically, the people of a significant majority of States.

Did it include blacks, women and Indians?

Yes, at 3/5ths ratio, yes, and no.

Did you say yes and no?

 

[Lilah]

Yes, each state being the agent of the people of that particular state. And the constitution was established between these sovereign, independent states.

With the Constitution created by We the People of the United States. Using States as their agents.

Yes, the constitution was written by delegates of the states and ratified by the states. Each state, of course, is the agent of the people of that state.

It didn't say 'We the Delegates'. It said 'We the People of the United States'. The People are the principle. The States are their agent.

The delegates were speaking for the people of their states, obviously.

The delegates didn't cite themselves as the creators of the constitution. They cited the People of the United States.

And the constitution was established between the states that ratified it. Had any of the states not ratified it, that state wouldn't have been in the new union.

The States agents of We the People. Just as the Federal government is the agents of the Several States.

Who exactly represented we the people? Who represented the blacks, women and Indians (who by the way were not citizens?)

 

[Skylar]

It didn't say 'We the Delegates'. It said 'We the People of the United States'. The People are the principle. The States are their agent.

Who were the people?

The people of the several states. Specifically, the people of a significant majority of States.

Did it include blacks, women and Indians?

Yes, at 3/5ths ratio, yes, and no.

Did you say yes and no?

I said yes at a 3/5ths ratio, yes, and no.

 

[Skylar]

With the Constitution created by We the People of the United States. Using States as their agents.

Yes, the constitution was written by delegates of the states and ratified by the states. Each state, of course, is the agent of the people of that state.

It didn't say 'We the Delegates'. It said 'We the People of the United States'. The People are the principle. The States are their agent.

The delegates were speaking for the people of their states, obviously.

The delegates didn't cite themselves as the creators of the constitution. They cited the People of the United States.

And the constitution was established between the states that ratified it. Had any of the states not ratified it, that state wouldn't have been in the new union.

The States agents of We the People. Just as the Federal government is the agents of the Several States.

Yes, they cited the people of their states.

No, they cited the People of the United States.

Each delegate represented and spoke for the people of his state, thus he could speak as/for the people of his state. The delegate from, for example, Pennsylvania felt he could speak for the people of Pennsylvania.

So the delegates wrote the constitution, and the states ratified it, thus establishing it between each of the ratifying states.

The delegates operated as agents for the States. While the States were agents of the people. And the People of the United States created the constitution. With the threshold of ratification described in Article 7.

 

[Skylar]

With the Constitution created by We the People of the United States. Using States as their agents.

Yes, the constitution was written by delegates of the states and ratified by the states. Each state, of course, is the agent of the people of that state.

It didn't say 'We the Delegates'. It said 'We the People of the United States'. The People are the principle. The States are their agent.

The delegates were speaking for the people of their states, obviously.

The delegates didn't cite themselves as the creators of the constitution. They cited the People of the United States.

And the constitution was established between the states that ratified it. Had any of the states not ratified it, that state wouldn't have been in the new union.

The States agents of We the People. Just as the Federal government is the agents of the Several States.

Who exactly represented we the people? Who represented the blacks, women and Indians (who by the way were not citizens?)

Constitutionally? Their elected representatives.

 

[Lilah]

Who were the people?

The people of the several states. Specifically, the people of a significant majority of States.

Did it include blacks, women and Indians?

Yes, at 3/5ths ratio, yes, and no.

Did you say yes and no?

I said yes at a 3/5ths ratio, yes, and no.

Are you able to expound upon your answer?
Was a percentage of blacks, women and Indians included?