Welfare applicants decline to take drug test, fueling debate over new law

[Jarhead]

if you don't want to be tested, walk away, don't take our money honey. it's all good. it's your choice.

that's just simply bulloney willow....

breaking the 4th amendment is breaking the 4th amendment....

the courts will decide....the gvt has no right to search the non drug users.

You are an idiot, the 4th Amendment protects you from unwarranted searches, When you apply for Welfare drug testing is entirely warranted. You are not being singled out for no reason and given a random Test, you are asking for a hand out, and we are asking you take a test to get it. The Government has every right to make testing clean a requirement to receive Benefits.

question...

What would be your response if you were told that the government was going to give all Americans a tax rebate....but you had to take a drug test to get it?

 

[Care4all]

Truly, I don't get folks using the constitution as a means to justify illegal activity. Ya might consider putting down the bongs and come back to reality...brain cells are beginning to fade.

lilbug, I don't do drugs, and never have, even though I did go to college!

the constitution and the 4th amendment is not for YOU to decide to eliminate it.... every citizen has constitutional rights and protections from our government, whether they are doing something illegal, or not.... please take the time to read our constitution and some studies on what it really means....it's a beautiful document!!!

 

[Jarhead]

I love how the conservatives er republicans favor the idea because its "illegal activity" while I favor the idea because tax dollars shouldn't be spent on those that will use the money to get high. If they want to do drugs they can get a job...

I could care less who does drugs nor do I care if they use drugs...

Who the fuck is the government to define what people can and cant ingest??

But it shouldn't be the taxpayers responsibility to make sure those on welfare are high...

would you knowingly donate money to a charity that is furnsihing the cash to drug users to purchase drugs?

 

[Jackson]

Nearly 1,600 Fla. welfare applicants decline to take drug test, fueling debate over new law

MIAMI — State figures show that hundreds of welfare applicants in Florida have declined to take drug tests that have been required for the assistance since mid-July.
Thirty-two applicants failed the test, 7,028 passed and 1,597 didn’t take it, according figures released Tuesday the Department of Children and Families. People who decline to take the test aren’t required to explain.

Proponents of the law have suggested applicants would be deterred because they knew they would test positive. Critics say applicants may not have taken the test because they couldn’t afford the fee that can be as much as $35 or didn’t have easy access to a testing facility.

Not sure how I feel about this.

Not sure how you feel? Come on people, do we really think there are not a lot of people who collect Welfare and use a lot of their Money to support Drug Habits? Should we really have to care for even those who wish to use what we give them to do illegal drugs?

You must have missed my post that explained my hesitancy. I worried that some recipients may not live near a drug testing site and didn't have travel available to one. Either that, or the cost was prohibitive.

To take care of those problems, I suggested DTD's (Drug Testing Drivers) to pick up those who needed a ride and take them to and from the drug testing site. For the cost, if the recipient didn't have the money, the cost of the test could be deducted from their check.

With these problems out of the way, there would be no good reason for any one to pass up taking the test unless they knew they would fail it. Then no check.

The law was designed for those in need who could not provide for food, shelter and clothing for themselves or their family. If they had money for illegal drugs, obviously they had money for their needs provided for by that law. That means giving them a check would be in violation of the law.

Hope that takes care of your concern with my post.

 

[Mr.Nick]

I love how the conservatives er republicans favor the idea because its "illegal activity" while I favor the idea because tax dollars shouldn't be spent on those that will use the money to get high. If they want to do drugs they can get a job...

I could care less who does drugs nor do I care if they use drugs...

Who the fuck is the government to define what people can and cant ingest??

But it shouldn't be the taxpayers responsibility to make sure those on welfare are high...

would you knowingly donate money to a charity that is furnsihing the cash to drug users to purchase drugs?

Of course not...

At the same time - I'm not going to sit here and tell adults what they can and cant do.

If a grown adult wants to hold down an honest job and buy drugs - so what - who the hell am I to tell them they cant do that??

Would I encourage doing drugs? no

 

[syrenn]

that's just simply bulloney willow....

breaking the 4th amendment is breaking the 4th amendment....

the courts will decide....the gvt has no right to search the non drug users.

You are an idiot, the 4th Amendment protects you from unwarranted searches, When you apply for Welfare drug testing is entirely warranted. You are not being singled out for no reason and given a random Test, you are asking for a hand out, and we are asking you take a test to get it. The Government has every right to make testing clean a requirement to receive Benefits.

question...

What would be your response if you were told that the government was going to give all Americans a tax rebate....but you had to take a drug test to get it?

First off a tax rebate would already be my money.... not something i was trying to get for free.

Now if the government said they were going to give out free money..... and all you and to do to collect it was to pass a drug test.... sign me up. Its my choice to sigh up and take the money... knowing the requirement for the free money is a clean test.

 

[Uncensored2008]

sorry...NO Libertarian would agree with this.....you are not libertarian Nick!!!! at least not on this topic!

You're wrong on this. A contract freely entered into is part of the interaction between people. The seeker of welfare is free not to enter into the contract to receive public aid. IF they do though, they must abide by the terms.

 

[Care4all]

I love how the conservatives er republicans favor the idea because its "illegal activity" while I favor the idea because tax dollars shouldn't be spent on those that will use the money to get high. If they want to do drugs they can get a job...

I could care less who does drugs nor do I care if they use drugs...

Who the fuck is the government to define what people can and cant ingest??

But it shouldn't be the taxpayers responsibility to make sure those on welfare are high...

would you knowingly donate money to a charity that is furnsihing the cash to drug users to purchase drugs?

there is no charity that would be free from such a thing....the charity certainly is not drug testing all of the poor they help...you donate for all the ones that need it, it is your heart that is in the right place....that's how I view it.....

and do you think the charity is KNOWINGLY doing this as you implied? their charitable contributions may end up going towards that with a few of who they take care of, but I seriously doubt they knowingly give money to a person to go buy their drugs with it.

 

[Uncensored2008]

yep, that's why i own my home outright, the cars too, and don't have to work anymore....to survive...because i never met personal responsibility!

you are good, really good willow! you've been blessed with your insight! bravo!

Never really thought of you as a liberal, not in the DNC sense, anyway....

 

[Jackson]

Truly, I don't get folks using the constitution as a means to justify illegal activity. Ya might consider putting down the bongs and come back to reality...brain cells are beginning to fade.

lilbug, I don't do drugs, and never have, even though I did go to college!

the constitution and the 4th amendment is not for YOU to decide to eliminate it.... every citizen has constitutional rights and protections from our government, whether they are doing something illegal, or not.... please take the time to read our constitution and some studies on what it really means....it's a beautiful document!!!

The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, along with requiring any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.

This amendment is to be used against forced search and seizures. When the drug test is voluntary, the 4th amendment is not applicable.

No one is forced to accept welfare, nor take the test.

 

[Care4all]

Truly, I don't get folks using the constitution as a means to justify illegal activity. Ya might consider putting down the bongs and come back to reality...brain cells are beginning to fade.

lilbug, I don't do drugs, and never have, even though I did go to college!

the constitution and the 4th amendment is not for YOU to decide to eliminate it.... every citizen has constitutional rights and protections from our government, whether they are doing something illegal, or not.... please take the time to read our constitution and some studies on what it really means....it's a beautiful document!!!

The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, along with requiring any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.

This amendment is to be used against forced search and seizures. When the drug test is voluntary, the 4th amendment is not applicable.

No one is forced to accept welfare, nor take the test.

uhhhh, you are just GUESSING on that....jackson....

 

[lilbug]

I love how the conservatives er republicans favor the idea because its "illegal activity" while I favor the idea because tax dollars shouldn't be spent on those that will use the money to get high. If they want to do drugs they can get a job...

I could care less who does drugs nor do I care if they use drugs...

Who the fuck is the government to define what people can and cant ingest??

But it shouldn't be the taxpayers responsibility to make sure those on welfare are high...

Well, you aren't speaking for me, I agree with it not only because it is an illegal activity, but believe as you, taxpayers shouldn't be subsidizing their habits. I also agree with the idea because some of these folks are parents, aside from the obvious exposure to this lifestyle, they have an obligation to their children to be better examples as law abiding, productive members of society.

 

[Care4all]

not forced search and seizure but ANY search and seizure by our gvt needs reasonable cause....

WHERE is that 'cause' jackson....?

 

[lilbug]

Truly, I don't get folks using the constitution as a means to justify illegal activity. Ya might consider putting down the bongs and come back to reality...brain cells are beginning to fade.

lilbug, I don't do drugs, and never have, even though I did go to college!

the constitution and the 4th amendment is not for YOU to decide to eliminate it.... every citizen has constitutional rights and protections from our government, whether they are doing something illegal, or not.... please take the time to read our constitution and some studies on what it really means....it's a beautiful document!!!

I'm not aksing for the 4th amendment to be eliminated at all. I'm asking that the true intent of it not be stretched, warped completely out of it's original intent to justify illegal and immoral activities and on top of that expect those of who don't imbibe in illegal substances, have jobs, pay taxes, to pay for their habits. Yeah, well, I wondered when the insults to my intelligence would be trolling out...another tactic folks use when they don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[lilbug]

lilbug, I don't do drugs, and never have, even though I did go to college!

the constitution and the 4th amendment is not for YOU to decide to eliminate it.... every citizen has constitutional rights and protections from our government, whether they are doing something illegal, or not.... please take the time to read our constitution and some studies on what it really means....it's a beautiful document!!!

The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, along with requiring any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.

This amendment is to be used against forced search and seizures. When the drug test is voluntary, the 4th amendment is not applicable.

No one is forced to accept welfare, nor take the test.

uhhhh, you are just GUESSING on that....jackson....

No, he isn't, that has been clearly stated in this topic.

 

[WillowTree]

Truly, I don't get folks using the constitution as a means to justify illegal activity. Ya might consider putting down the bongs and come back to reality...brain cells are beginning to fade.

lilbug, I don't do drugs, and never have, even though I did go to college!

the constitution and the 4th amendment is not for YOU to decide to eliminate it.... every citizen has constitutional rights and protections from our government, whether they are doing something illegal, or not.... please take the time to read our constitution and some studies on what it really means....it's a beautiful document!!!

I'm not aksing for the 4th amendment to be eliminated at all. I'm asking that the true intent of it not be stretched, warped completely out of it's original intent to justify illegal and immoral activities and on top of that expect those of who don't imbibe in illegal substances, have jobs, pay taxes, to pay for their habits. Yeah, well, I wondered when the insults to my intelligence would be trolling out...another tactic folks use when they don't have a leg to stand on.

You are lucky she didn't call you a liar.. That's her usual response to those she disagrees with..

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

question...

What would be your response if you were told that the government was going to give all Americans a tax rebate....but you had to take a drug test to get it?

That’s fine.

But if the working poor on Food Stamps alone were required to take a drug test, that would be a potential violation.

The law was designed for those in need who could not provide for food, shelter and clothing for themselves or their family. If they had money for illegal drugs, obviously they had money for their needs provided for by that law. That means giving them a check would be in violation of the law.

That’s not the issue – the issue is being a public assistance applicant is not justifiable cause to suspect one of using illegal drugs, the motive for the testing is pure animus.

uhhhh, you are just GUESSING on that....jackson....

No, he’s not guessing, he got it completely wrong.

Well, you aren't speaking for me, I agree with it not only because it is an illegal activity, but believe as you, taxpayers shouldn't be subsidizing their habits. I also agree with the idea because some of these folks are parents, aside from the obvious exposure to this lifestyle, they have an obligation to their children to be better examples as law abiding, productive members of society.

A conservative who advocates government dictating to the people how to live. Telling.

I'm not aksing for the 4th amendment to be eliminated at all. I'm asking that the true intent of it not be stretched, warped completely out of it's original intent to justify illegal and immoral activities and on top of that expect those of who don't imbibe in illegal substances, have jobs, pay taxes, to pay for their habits. Yeah, well, I wondered when the insults to my intelligence would be trolling out...another tactic folks use when they don't have a leg to stand on.

That’s the problem: you have no evidence one is involved in an illegal activity, save applying for public assistance. Preventing such action is the original intent of the 4th Amendment.

In essence you are advocating a doctrine of ‘guilty until proven innocent.’

 

[SFC Ollie]

OK...Im convinced......there needs to be a better way than drug testing...

But what else is there?

Well, honestly, a complete reworking of the welfare and social services system.

In my "ideal" scenario, increased spending would be combined with increased services as well as increased accountability. I think we could do alot if we could help, for example, single mothers more. If we could increase services to give them better abilities to start working on education or vocational training (like funding for child care programs, possibly try to tie these to community organizations like YMCAs, etc.), while also holding a higher standard for accountability that requisites receiving benefits with taking additional steps to better your long term situation. It would provide both ability to develop yourself, as well as a powerful incentive to do so, because if you don't remain in school you'll lose your benefits. And it would go a long way toward breaking the cycle of multi generation poverty that often lands people on the welfare roles.

I know it's probably not a popular concept among the right of center crowd. But I think it would be a good long term investment that will see reductions in overall expenditures a decade from now, because people are getting off the system instead of lingering on it repeatedly throughout their lives.

You know, it doesn't matter if you believe in the bible or not, but roughly 2000 years ago some wrote down that the poor will always be with you. Or words to that effect. So far they were right, no matter how much you give to the poor there are always more poor. So how much are you willing to give? I give to at least 3 local charities and 2 national ones, along with half a dozen veteran organizations.

 

[lilbug]

A conservative who advocates government dictating to the people how to live. Telling.

This is complete bull. I'm not telling anyone how to live. Just one those blanket accusations that are meaningless.

That’s the problem: you have no evidence one is involved in an illegal activity, save applying for public assistance. Preventing such action is the original intent of the 4th Amendment.

In essence you are advocating a doctrine of ‘guilty until proven innocent.’

Innocent?! This idea had to come from somewhere. Evidently there has been a need recognized that measures to be taken to stop their abuse of drugs and the system as the honor system clearly is not working.

I'm advocating checks and balances, if this is most effective way to weed out abusers, then so be it, but I suspect abusers will pull out another one of their constitutional rights and get up on thier soapbox to any attempts that hold them accountable for their own actions.

 

[naturegirl]

Wow, long thread and here I am jumping in at the end. I've seen very little concern for the kids of those receiving government assistance. Don't they have a right to have parents that don't do drugs?? Why would anyone think it's OK??

Kids need help, kids need food,kids need a place to live and sleep, kids need clothes, that's what those checks are supposed to take care of, not their parents drug habits, drinking habits or smoking habits.

If you can afford drugs, booze and cigs you can afford to feed, clothe and give your kids a place to sleep. I should not be responsible for your drug habits. It's going to cost the same for me to support those kids in your home or in a foster home.

4th amendment rights do not apply when you are asking for help. I give a lot to charity, I've given a lot to friends and family that needed help. But you know what?? I pay the gas bill, go buy the groceries, and pay the landlord so the kids have food, heat and a place to live. I don't give the $ to the adult to do with what they want, why should I expect less of the government assistance they get???