What Amnesty Really Is

[TemplarKormac]

There are those of us who have a knowledge of history and then there are people like you who believe freedom is a privilege like driving.

Please, demonstrate your knowledge of history to me instead of bragging to me about it. I'd love to see this.

Preamble to the Constitution... Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Your move.

Easy, you just quoted the Declaration of Independence, not the Preamble to the Constitution.

This is the Preamble to the Constitution

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Moron.

Ooops, my bad. I'm at work and am juggling multiple tasks. Ask someone who is employed what that is like.

Still stands. The founders believed that Life Liberty and the Pursuite of Happiness were inalienable RIGHTS, not privileges.

Don't presume to lecture me about your knowledge of history if you can't even quote the correct document.

 

[candycorn]

There are those of us who have a knowledge of history and then there are people like you who believe freedom is a privilege like driving.

Please, demonstrate your knowledge of history to me instead of bragging to me about it. I'd love to see this.

Preamble to the Constitution... Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

Your move.

Easy, you just quoted the Declaration of Independence, not the Preamble to the Constitution.

This is the Preamble to the Constitution

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Moron.

Ooops, my bad. I'm at work and am juggling multiple tasks. Ask someone who is employed what that is like.

Still stands. The founders believed that Life Liberty and the Pursuite of Happiness were inalienable RIGHTS, not privileges.

Don't presume to lecture me about your knowledge of history if you can't even quote the correct document.

Pipe down little loser boy.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Still stands. The founders believed that Life Liberty and the Pursuite of Happiness were inalienable RIGHTS, not privileges.

No it doesn't. Which one of those implies freedom is a right?

Life? No. Liberty? No. Pursuit of happiness? No again.

If freedom were a right, we wouldn't be able to put people in prison for violating the law. Now could we?

The Constitution doesn't guarantee freedom, it guarantees freedom from government tyranny. Big difference.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'm at work and am juggling multiple tasks.

You're lying.

At 6am in the morning? What kind of job do you have? What kind of job allows you to waste time debating someone on a political forum?

 

[Montrovant]

Oh you're not a stupid-ass fuck who thinks he's too good for those jobs? Then... dot dot dot.... YOU'D HAVE ONE OF THOSE JOBS.

Oh, so why are there welfare programs? Shouldn't the whole idea be to encourage people to get jobs? Not rely on the government for their living?

So if Trump gets rid of the brown people, will you try to get a job as a nanny or gardener? Despite how much disdain you seem to have for them?

Wait, are there a lot of illegal alien nannies?

You think this is funny. So far everyone who has commented here has seen this as nothing but a joke. Is this what you guys always do when you can't call me on the merits of my argument?

You guys? I'm not part of some group, I don't know the posters here better than you do. No need to try and group me with other posters.

I also haven't noticed that everyone who has commented has seen this as a joke.

However, if that really is the case, perhaps you said something funny.

Also, I wasn't talking to you with the post you quoted here, and I wasn't being funny. I was merely asking a question.

 

[Montrovant]

Freedom is not a birthright. It is a privilege. It is something you are imbued with by our Constitution simply for being born here.

Was there a typo in here somewhere? You say freedom is not a birthright, then go on to say it is something you are imbued with for being born here.....which would make it a birthright.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Freedom is not a birthright. It is a privilege. It is something you are imbued with by our Constitution simply for being born here.

Was there a typo in here somewhere? You say freedom is not a birthright, then go on to say it is something you are imbued with for being born here.....which would make it a birthright.

No. Let me explain. It isn't a birthright if it can be taken away from you. It is a privilege bestowed on you for being born here. A birth privilege. If I've read my constitution correctly, your citizenship is a birthright, but not your freedom.

If freedom is revocable, it is not a right, but a privilege. just like your driver's license or the like.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Oh you're not a stupid-ass fuck who thinks he's too good for those jobs? Then... dot dot dot.... YOU'D HAVE ONE OF THOSE JOBS.

Oh, so why are there welfare programs? Shouldn't the whole idea be to encourage people to get jobs? Not rely on the government for their living?

So if Trump gets rid of the brown people, will you try to get a job as a nanny or gardener? Despite how much disdain you seem to have for them?

Wait, are there a lot of illegal alien nannies?

You think this is funny. So far everyone who has commented here has seen this as nothing but a joke. Is this what you guys always do when you can't call me on the merits of my argument?

You guys? I'm not part of some group, I don't know the posters here better than you do. No need to try and group me with other posters.

I also haven't noticed that everyone who has commented has seen this as a joke.

However, if that really is the case, perhaps you said something funny.

Also, I wasn't talking to you with the post you quoted here, and I wasn't being funny. I was merely asking a question.

Twas in the heat of the moment. I apologize.

 

[Montrovant]

Freedom is not a birthright. It is a privilege. It is something you are imbued with by our Constitution simply for being born here.

Was there a typo in here somewhere? You say freedom is not a birthright, then go on to say it is something you are imbued with for being born here.....which would make it a birthright.

No. Let me explain. It isn't a birthright if it can be taken away from you. It is a privilege bestowed on you for being born here. A birth privilege. If I've read my constitution correctly, your citizenship is a birthright, but not your freedom.

If freedom is revocable, it is not a right, but a privilege. just like your driver's license or the like.

By that reasoning it would seem there are no rights, only privileges. What right is irrevocable?

Also, a privilege can be a birthright by most definitions I've seen. I know it has the word 'right' as part of the word, but even an object can be a birthright. It seems to generally be defined as a right, privilege, or item someone is due at birth.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What right is irrevocable?

Very few them I would imagine.

If you commit a capital offense, say treason, your right to life and/or freedom becomes revocable. When you lose the "right" to life, liberty, or property as a result of your actions, they cease to be rights.

Any time a right can be revoked, it becomes a privilege, not a right. We have laws that grant or revoke "rights" in response to actions by the citizen. That means any benefits you have as a citizen are privileges granted to you by the law.

I see equality and fair treatment under the law as actual rights and I see a proper education as an actual right. As long as you obey the law, these privileges are irrevocable. Rights are things that can't be taken away from you, even if you break the law. Privileges are opportunities that can be taken from you or granted you as a result of your compliance (or lack thereof) with the law.

 

[Montrovant]

What right is irrevocable?

Very few them I would imagine.

If you commit a capital offense, say treason, your right to life and/or freedom becomes revocable. When you lose the "right" to life, liberty, or property as a result of your actions, they cease to be rights.

Any time a right can be revoked, it becomes a privilege, not a right. We have laws that grant or revoke "rights" in response to actions by the citizen. That means any benefits you have as a citizen are privileges granted to you by the law.

I see equality and fair treatment under the law as actual rights and I see a proper education as an actual right. As long as you obey the law, these privileges are irrevocable. Rights are things that can't be taken away from you, even if you break the law. Privileges are opportunities that can be taken from you or granted you as a result of your compliance (or lack thereof) with the law.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here. Equality and fair treatment under the law can certainly be taken away, and proper education isn't a guarantee. Those would also be privileges under this reasoning.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What right is irrevocable?

Very few them I would imagine.

If you commit a capital offense, say treason, your right to life and/or freedom becomes revocable. When you lose the "right" to life, liberty, or property as a result of your actions, they cease to be rights.

Any time a right can be revoked, it becomes a privilege, not a right. We have laws that grant or revoke "rights" in response to actions by the citizen. That means any benefits you have as a citizen are privileges granted to you by the law.

I see equality and fair treatment under the law as actual rights and I see a proper education as an actual right. As long as you obey the law, these privileges are irrevocable. Rights are things that can't be taken away from you, even if you break the law. Privileges are opportunities that can be taken from you or granted you as a result of your compliance (or lack thereof) with the law.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here. Equality and fair treatment under the law can certainly be taken away, and proper education isn't a guarantee. Those would also be privileges under this reasoning.

So you recognize the quandary. People claim rights are privileges and privileges are rights. However, fair treatment under the law is granted as an explicit, implied right under the 6th, 7th and 14th Amendments.

Like I said before. Any right that can be legally taken away from you isn't a right, but a privilege.

 

[candycorn]

Meanwhile back in reality,

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--"

That is what the framers thought.
What some 2 bit loser from Georgia feels is insignificant.

 

[JoeB131]

So you recognize the quandary. People claim rights are privileges and privileges are rights. However, fair treatment under the law is granted as an explicit, implied right under the 6th, 7th and 14th Amendments.

Like I said before. Any right that can be legally taken away from you isn't a right, but a privilege.

Exactly the point. There are no rights. there are just privilages the rest of society lets you have.

Any fool who thinks he has rights needs to look up "Japanese Americans, 1942"

Rights exist on a notion of "Yeah, that sounds reasonable". Or "That's weird, but different strokes"...

Which have nothing to do with undocumented immigrants.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Amnesty isn't a reward, not in any way, shape or form. It's an avoidance of a penalty.

It is a reward, in the sense that it allows someone to avoid the penalty.

There's that TK logic again. Perfect.

 

[LoneLaugher]

You are currently serving as proof that there are many Americans who have zero interest in working even a fraction as hard as any illegal immigrant. That's funnier than many jokes.

And what would you know of my life to insinuate that I have zero interest in working? Listen to yourself trying to justify illegal immigration based on the merits of those illegal immigrants working harder than other Americans. It still doesn't make what they did any less illegal.

See, I've had three jobs. I was fired from one, the economic downturn killed the other, and my nervous breakdown forced me to resign from the last one I had.

I bagged groceries for people and I cleaned up after man and beast alike at the UGA Veterinary School as a janitor. It wasn't the most appealing job in the world, but I was blessed to have it. I remember one day someone bringing in a dog that was nearly dead from a case of Canine parvovirus, and it did later die. As it lay there on the stretcher, being carried away, it was still vomiting, and trailing it all the way down the hall and into the emergency room. I had to clean that up, and as a result, I saw what was going on in the emergency room as those people were trying to save that poor dog's life. The attendant at the desk was livid. She asked me why an owner would wait that long to bring their dog in for treatment. I could see the anger in her face. Having taken care of three dogs myself, I wasn't too happy about it either. I'll never forget that.

But I'm never too good for any job. Never. But I would have never had any of them had I played second fiddle to an illegal immigrant for the same job.

Before lecturing me about being too good for a job, perhaps you should be aware of the circumstances behind why I don't have one. There are always unmitigated circumstances behind why someone doesn't have a job. And it isn't you place to judge them (or me) for it.

What a load of shit. You don't want to work. We all know this.

 

[320 Years of History]

Amnesty isn't a reward, not in any way, shape or form. It's an avoidance of a penalty.

It is a reward, in the sense that it allows someone to avoid the penalty.

There's that TK logic again. Perfect.

What's "TK?" It means "to come" to me, and only just because of a long ago experience with a publisher.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Imprisonment is punishment for committing a crime and being found guilty. Freedom isn't a reward, its a birthright.

That is perhaps the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Freedom is not a birthright. It is a privilege. It is something you are imbued with by our Constitution simply for being born here. If you break the law, you lose your freedom. Not a hard concept to grasp.

By the way, imprisonment is the natural result of someone losing their freedom.

You said it is not a birthright. Then said it is something you are "imbued" with simply for being born here. You know that, right?

 

[Pop23]

To play on what was the apparent theme of the night, immigration, I'm going to ask you for a favor.

In this context, I want you to think for a moment what amnesty is. It is essentially rewarding people for stealing the American dream. Stealing. Or taking something that doesn't belong to you. When a robber robs a bank, we don't reward him with the money he stole. We prosecute him under the fullest extent of the law.

Why should we provide a pathway to citizenship for people who stole the American dream from others who actually worked for theirs? Why should we shield them from the consequences of their actions? So what if they're trying to make a better life for themselves. So what if they have families here. That doesn't exempt them from the consequences of violating the borders of another sovereign nation, nor from the law.

Reagan was wrong for doing it, and so was Obama for attempting to grant amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants.

Now, I know people in my Facebook feed and elsewhere who themselves became citizens in places like here in America, or in Germany and Canada, I even know people who are married to those who went through the same process. As a result, they should recognize the reward is meant only for those who have gone through the process. They shouldn't be making excuses for those who skirt that process by illegally crossing the border.

Any law abiding citizen should recognize that. Anyone who obeys the law naturally recognizes the importance of the law. We as citizens strive to obey the law, so why shouldn't these illegal immigrants? They could follow every other law America has, but they still wouldn't be law abiding people. They are still illegal immigrants. If Jesus had sinned just once, and lived a perfect life thereafter, he still wouldn't be perfect no matter what Christians say. Just one sin, just one violation is all it takes.

Amnesty is pretty much the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. People shouldn't be rewarded for breaking the law, they should be punished. But hey, I guess we'll give them the Hillary treatment and proclaim that they are above the law. This isn't a game of Monopoly, there shouldn't be a "get out of jail free" card.

We have the right to enforce our borders, just like any other country in the world. That is neither racist or bigoted, it's the law.

Don't forget it.

Our country is our home.

This is how Trump supporters think our home should be run:

If you find someone has broken into your home, that person is a criminal, should be removed and jailed.

Hillary supporters consider the person that invaded your home a guest. That if this person successfully breaks in, the home owner is obligated to feed him, provide him health care,include him in your will and educate his children.

 

[Kondor3]

So the American Dream is to become a gardener?
Rewind a couple of hundred years, the American Dream was to hunt the buffalo, live in harmony with the land, and teach the children to respect their world.
Then some outsiders came and stole that dream, ravished the land, and killed the children.
Nice!

That's alright...

The Neolithic Primitives who were here at the time weren't doing anything worthwhile with the place, anyway...

You can't sit on your ass for 10,000-15,000 years and fail to make progress, and expect to last forever...

Nature has de-selected them...

Next slide, please...