what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

[koshergrl]

Christianity hasn't tortured or killed any. Christianity isn't a person, or even a discernible entity.

The fact that you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means you're willfully ignorant. Which is true of all those who have been offered, and who have rejected, salvation. You choose your unhappiness, and you choose your eternal damnation. Enjoy.

Just because YOU think something invisible exists, doesn't mean it does either. You're willfully delusional. And I NEVER said that I rejected salvation, I'm agnostic, so if you ever prove your god with REAL facts and can prove your salvation theory, I'll be on board no problem.

That's rejection of salvation. Sorry, whether you believe it or not.

 

[koshergrl]

Christianity hasn't tortured or killed any. Christianity isn't a person, or even a discernible entity.

The fact that you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means you're willfully ignorant. Which is true of all those who have been offered, and who have rejected, salvation. You choose your unhappiness, and you choose your eternal damnation. Enjoy.

Just because YOU think something invisible exists, doesn't mean it does either. You're willfully delusional. And I NEVER said that I rejected salvation, I'm agnostic, so if you ever prove your god with REAL facts and can prove your salvation theory, I'll be on board no problem.

Don't worry about it

Koshergrl is not getting into heaven anyway

 

[koshergrl]

Given your acknowledged status as one of the premier board liars, liewinger, the fact that you say that actually is a comfort to me.

 

[numan]

So KG, since you're such a scholar of the Bible, you should have already known that Jesus was Jewish.

You do realize that among the disciples, there was talk of having people convert to Judaism before they came up with the idea of Christianity, right?

Besides...................the whole reason Jesus was in Jerusalem just before He was crucified was because (like any good Jewish man), He was there to celebrate Passover (a distinctly Jewish holiday).

But........................if you disagree with any of the 3 statements I've made, can you provide any links to back up your ignorant world view?

KG reminds me of the ignorant farmer's wife who was told that her pastor had studied the New Testament in Greek.

She exclaimed indignantly,

"If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for me!!"

· · · ·
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[rightwinger]

Just because YOU think something invisible exists, doesn't mean it does either. You're willfully delusional. And I NEVER said that I rejected salvation, I'm agnostic, so if you ever prove your god with REAL facts and can prove your salvation theory, I'll be on board no problem.

Don't worry about it

Koshergrl is not getting into heaven anyway

Look....It has already been established that heaven is not in your future plans. There is no room in heaven for hate speech and your posts are full of it. You don't even qualify as a good Christian

But look at the bright side....

Your posts will last forever on USMB

 

[numan]

Which shows how little you know about Christ, or the church(es).

Seriously, KG?

Jesus is going to just abandon the faith he lived and died for and come and sit in some mega house of worship on the wrong day of the week amongst total strangers who don't even speak the same language? VH is correct that Jesus would be far more at home listening to the Torah scrolls read aloud in Hebrew on the Sabbath.

Not to mention being embarassed to hell by the outlandish clothing worn by the people who claim to worship him!! · ·

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[hobelim]

Christianity hasn't tortured or killed any. Christianity isn't a person, or even a discernible entity.

The fact that you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means you're willfully ignorant. Which is true of all those who have been offered, and who have rejected, salvation. You choose your unhappiness, and you choose your eternal damnation. Enjoy.

Just because YOU think something invisible exists, doesn't mean it does either. You're willfully delusional. And I NEVER said that I rejected salvation, I'm agnostic, so if you ever prove your god with REAL facts and can prove your salvation theory, I'll be on board no problem.

That's the real issue. She has never sought any valid proof for the truth of the things she claims and that's why she cannot demonstrate even any logic for accepting those beliefs that would convince anyone else except the gullible.

The fewer gullible people she can find the angrier she becomes at rational people for dispelling her delusions.

The ironic thing is that if God does exist and Jesus is about to show up any minute she would be among the first to be thrown on the fire that she wishes on everyone else.

Its a very sad story.

 

[numan]

'

No, it's not sad -- it's just ridiculous farce.

.

 

[hobelim]

'

No, it's not sad -- it's just ridiculous farce.

.

Of course its a farce. The sad part is that she is wasting her life pretending and even if God does exist she would have less luck fooling him than she has had trying to fool people here.

 

[numan]

'

Most people waste their lives. It's just the human condition.

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[hobelim]

'

Most people waste their lives. It's just the human condition.

.

Nah. If that's the human condition, how is that any different than the position of those who believe in the fall of man or the banality of worldly pursuits?

You might find this hard to believe but some people live lives that are in no way banal or a waste of life but a fulfillment of life.

The human condition includes a wide range of experience according to the heights and depths of human potential that each individual aspires or degenerates to.

Life is never a waste.

Even those involved in a ridiculous farce including the spectators stand to gain something by the experience.

If have seen many people slip one thing or another into their pockets every day.

 

[Avatar4321]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

My observation is that those who claim to be the most 'religious,' who claim to adhere most strongly and strictly to religious principles, who live most doggedly by their religious principles are the most cruel, vicious, angry, violent, and intolerent people in the world. This goes for most religious people and pretty much every religion. And one of the most prevalent things about them is their hypocrisy.

If there is a heaven, those people won't go. If there is a hell: that's where they belong.

So people who live their faith, IE those who are honest, humble, charitable, etc, are the most cruel, vicious, angry, violent, intolerant people in the world? Forgive me if I find that to be total nonsense.

I am so greatful that the Lord is our Judge. Because He knows the hearts of men alot better than you.

 

[Avatar4321]

Seriously, KG?

Jesus is going to just abandon the faith he lived and died for and come and sit in some mega house of worship on the wrong day of the week amongst total strangers who don't even speak the same language? VH is correct that Jesus would be far more at home listening to the Torah scrolls read aloud in Hebrew on the Sabbath.

Lol....again, your ignorance of the subject matter is noted.

Ironic!

You might want to look up the definition of the word Ironic. Just saying.

 

[Avatar4321]

It's amusing how many people are denying the existence of heaven who are think they are qualified to judge who goes there.

 

[hobelim]

It's amusing how many people are denying the existence of heaven who are think they are qualified to judge who goes there.

Almost as amusing as people claiming to know all about a God they have never seen or heard from even once in their entire lives.

 

[Derideo_Te]

It's amusing how many people are denying the existence of heaven who are think they are qualified to judge who goes there.

Not nearly as amusing as those who believe there is a heaven and that they are "qualified to judge who goes there".

 

[numan]

Most people waste their lives. It's just the human condition.

Life is never a waste.

Even those involved in a ridiculous farce including the spectators stand to gain something by the experience.

If have seen many people slip one thing or another into their pockets every day.

It is rare for an American to so openly admit that so many of their fellow countrymen are pickpockets and shoplifters. · ·

.

 

[BreezeWood]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

My observation is that those who claim to be the most 'religious,' who claim to adhere most strongly and strictly to religious principles, who live most doggedly by their religious principles are the most cruel, vicious, angry, violent, and intolerent people in the world. This goes for most religious people and pretty much every religion. And one of the most prevalent things about them is their hypocrisy.

If there is a heaven, those people won't go. If there is a hell: that's where they belong.

So people who live their faith, IE those who are honest, humble, charitable, etc, are the most cruel, vicious, angry, violent, intolerant people in the world? Forgive me if I find that to be total nonsense.

I am so greatful that the Lord is our Judge. Because He knows the hearts of men alot better than you.

So people who live their faith, IE ...


as a disguise who instead believe and follow a self-serving and corrupt Book - indeed "are the most cruel, vicious, angry, violent, and intolerent people in the world" -

as proven repeatedly throughout History

I am so greatful that the Lord is our Judge. Because He knows the hearts of men alot better than you.

how diminished can a belief become ?

 

[hobelim]

Most people waste their lives. It's just the human condition.

Life is never a waste.

Even those involved in a ridiculous farce including the spectators stand to gain something by the experience.

If have seen many people slip one thing or another into their pockets every day.

It is rare for an American to so openly admit that so many of their fellow countrymen are pickpockets and shoplifters. · ·

.

LOL... Not as rare as a shoplifter admitting to theft even after they are caught red handed.

I suspect there may even be thieves lurking among people on every side of any issue.

its a jungle out there!

 

[Lonestar_logic]

What determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

I will attempt to answer your question as it pertains to Christianity. Unfortunately, not all Christians agree on what it takes to be saved. There are those who believe that justification is by works and that faith without works is dead; however, there are others who believe that justification is through faith in Christ alone and works are meaningless. I will begin by citing the scriptures that tend to support the “Justification by faith alone” theology (all quotes are from the KJV):

“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” (Romans 3:23-28).

“For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works” (Romans 4:2-6)
.
“What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone” (Romans 9:30-32).

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified” (Galatians 2:16).

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith” (Galatians 3:10, 11).

“But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:23-26).

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast” (Ephesians 2:8, 9).

“Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith” (Philippians 3:8, 9).

“Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began” (2 Timothy 1:8, 9).

“For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Titus 3:3-5).

I have saved the most cited scripture for last:

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:14-18).

I believe the above verses - if believed - would lead a reasonable person to conclude that faith in Christ is all that is needed for salvation. However, there are other verses which would lead a reasonable person to conclude justification is by works.

It is up to YOU to read the Bible if you are concerned about Christianity. Not everyone who reads it will come away with the same interpretation. As I've already stated, Christians disagree on whether salvation is by faith or works but there are other issues. For example, some Christians believe in the doctrine of "once saved always saved" whereby one cannot lose salvation after accepting Christ; however, other Christians believe that those who continue in sin after knowing of Christ are to be treated as an infidel or worse. Some Christians believe in a pre-tribulation rapture and others say the Book of Revelation precludes such an event.

Further, some Christians believe that Jesus is merely the Son of God, the Father being greater than the Son; however others believe that He is a co-equal part of a divine trinity, while still others believe He is God Himself. There are many other theological disputes among Christians, yet all parties to such disputes point to verses in the Bible to prove their point. If you wish to explore Christianity, YOU must find your own answers.

My next post will deal with the “justification by works” doctrine. It is rather lengthy.

Good read but there is one problem. I know of no "other Christians (who)believe that those who continue in sin after knowing of Christ are to be treated as an infidel or worse."

We are born into sin and knowing Christ will not stop anyone from sinning.