what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

[Chuckt]

I thought the Bible said "judge not lest ye be judged".

Most of your posts are pretty judgmental KG.

Does it say, "Don't judge"? No.
Does it say when you pull the log out of your eye that you can't judge? No.
What happens when we pull the log out of our eye?

Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Hypocritical judgment is spoken against here. Righteous judgment is not spoken against here. If we can see clearly to cast the mote out of our brother's eye then we should cast it out.

What you should do is google this topic from Christian sites because there are a whole bunch of Christian sites that say you can judge if you are a Christian and doing it righteously like this one.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

I actually wrote pages on judgment.


Isaiah 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he [that] departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw [it], and it displeased him that [there was] no judgment.

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

It took me a couple of years to figure it out without the internet but that is called Christian "literacy" which many people fail to find because the word of God is taught in few Churches because the people don't want it and they teach biblical principals instead.

Actually, I thought it was only God Himself who was capable of judging people, because how can one man know what is in another man's heart?

If a person is judgmental about another person without knowing their whole story, who's to say that their judgment is fair and just?

How can we be fair and just? By giving mercy, second, third, fourth, fifth chances, forgiving one another, asking to be forgiven, going the second mile with people, loving our enemies if they will let us. We do not pronounce final judgments like you are damned and nothing can be done about it.

The idea that we have to hear someone's whole story is something I would listen to but it isn't an excuse because when God tells you how to live your life right, God gives you the power to do so. Jesus said to the Paralytic to take up his bed and walk. What ability does someone who can't walk have in taking up his bed and walking? None. Right? When God tells you how to live your life, He gives you the power to do so.

John 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.

John 5:9 And immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath.

I can't judge your heart but when you speak, you give a window to what is in your heart:

Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

We're not here to judge the world.

Someday we may judge the world:

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If you can't judge then who can reprove, correct or instruct? You would have to say this Bible is written for no one but I read it and I think and it was written for someone...

In fact, the Bible even says more about it.

We need less talkers and more Christian literacy.

 

[Bumberclyde]

"John 5:8 Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk. " I believe it was "make up your bed and walk". That makes way more sense.

The bible is the word of the men who wrote it, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[hobelim]

what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

Everyone is going to the same place, whatever it is, because no one has EVER shown any real evidence of separate places like heaven and hell. Pretty simple really.

I think its unanimous among more rational people that the subject of heaven and hell according to the unrestrained imagination of believers is at best absurd.

That being said, did you ever consider that in scripture heaven and hell like the living and the dead are metaphors that allude to an actual state of conscious existence that many people here demonstrate?

Isn't what is posted on these boards evidence of minds existing in completely separate places?

Can't you perceive how people whose minds are filled with irrational nonsense that imprisons them in chains of ignorance and makes the fullness of life beyond their grasp are in a place of absence, confusion, mental anguish and emotional torment that perfectly fits the scriptural descriptions of hell however loud they shriek about being saved or writhe in anger about everyone else being damned?

 

[Chuckt]

That being said, did you ever consider that in scripture heaven and hell like the living and the dead are metaphors that allude to an actual state of conscious existence that many people here demonstrate?

Isn't what is posted on these boards evidence of minds existing in completely separate places?

With all due respect, the people here are pretty smart and everything.

I went trying to disprove annihilationism and I read journal articles, different translations, MP3's, theology books and a book that was specifically written during the time when the heresy was an issue. I probably spent 300 hours trying to disprove annihilationism but proof isn't the issue here when your answer is "no" and when people would rather make stuff up because the issue is that you really don't want to listen even if you said you did. Because you can make stuff up, there wouldn't be any limit on the amount of defending the Bible that I would have to do because in the end, the only person that can change you is you.

Even though you are all people and I would respect you as such, you don't have credentials and I don't see that many of you have gone to Bible college.

How do we know you aren't just some user sitting in your pajamas instead of someone who knows Hereneutics (Biblical Interpretation)? After all, you read from a Bible that doesn't agree with the respected literal translations that are word for word which means your translation adds or subtracts from the Word of God.

I have commentaries and I have made lists and I can make a list from intelligent scholars who will tell me otherwise which makes the average user here untrustworthy in their interpretation and one of the methods here is gerrymandering where you put the information that only you want to present in an order to prove what you want.

Chuck

 

[numan]

With all due respect, the people here are pretty smart and everything.

Yes, by and large, the people here are a cut above the average.

Which just goes to show on what a low level of consciousness the average human lives! · ·

.

 

[koshergrl]

what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

Everyone is going to the same place, whatever it is, because no one has EVER shown any real evidence of separate places like heaven and hell. Pretty simple really.

I think its unanimous among more rational people that the subject of heaven and hell according to the unrestrained imagination of believers is at best absurd.

That being said, did you ever consider that in scripture heaven and hell like the living and the dead are metaphors that allude to an actual state of conscious existence that many people here demonstrate?

Isn't what is posted on these boards evidence of minds existing in completely separate places?

Can't you perceive how people whose minds are filled with irrational nonsense that imprisons them in chains of ignorance and makes the fullness of life beyond their grasp are in a place of absence, confusion, mental anguish and emotional torment that perfectly fits the scriptural descriptions of hell however loud they shriek about being saved or writhe in anger about everyone else being damned?

See, you say stupid things like that, and yet you apparently expect people to take you seriously.

That first sentence just screams "I am an idiot who has absolutely no idea what I'm talking about."

 

[Moonglow]

what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

The stamp on your hand.

 

[koshergrl]

Not nearly as amusing as those who believe there is a heaven and that they are "qualified to judge who goes there".

Lol...we're qualified by the authority of God.

You can imagine how we pity people who don't recognize that authority while they still can opt to share it.

Because you will acknowledge it in the end. And if that is the first time for you, it will be a tragic day indeed.

I thought the Bible said "judge not lest ye be judged".

Most of your posts are pretty judgmental KG.

You have no more understanding of that passage than you do of the rest of the bible, you drunken asshat.

Whoops, I judged again.

1 Corinthians 2:15

"The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one."

 

[Moonglow]

The Bible is one of those books that has to cover their ass, so to speak, so you will find many contradictory messages.
one tells you not to judge while another tells you to judge.

 

[koshergrl]

See, this is where context and history, and a basic working understanding of the actual contents of the bible, comes in handy.

But you'll find that all the jeering anti-Christians are also sadly limited in those areas.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Lol...we're qualified by the authority of God.

You can imagine how we pity people who don't recognize that authority while they still can opt to share it.

Because you will acknowledge it in the end. And if that is the first time for you, it will be a tragic day indeed.

I thought the Bible said "judge not lest ye be judged".

Most of your posts are pretty judgmental KG.

You have no more understanding of that passage than you do of the rest of the bible, you drunken asshat.

Whoops, I judged again.

1 Corinthians 2:15

"The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one."

A truly "spiritual person" would never call someone a "drunken asshat"!

 

[numan]

Can't you perceive how people whose minds are filled with irrational nonsense that imprisons them in chains of ignorance and makes the fullness of life beyond their grasp are in a place of absence, confusion, mental anguish and emotional torment that perfectly fits the scriptural descriptions of hell however loud they shriek about being saved or writhe in anger about everyone else being damned?

Those words certainly describe to a tee an awful lot of "religious" people.

.

 

[koshergrl]

I thought the Bible said "judge not lest ye be judged".

Most of your posts are pretty judgmental KG.

You have no more understanding of that passage than you do of the rest of the bible, you drunken asshat.

Whoops, I judged again.

1 Corinthians 2:15

"The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one."

A truly "spiritual person" would never call someone a "drunken asshat"!

Well she might if she had to deal with a drunken asshat on a regular basis.

 

[Derideo_Te]

You have no more understanding of that passage than you do of the rest of the bible, you drunken asshat.

Whoops, I judged again.

1 Corinthians 2:15

"The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one."

A truly "spiritual person" would never call someone a "drunken asshat"!

Well she might if she had to deal with a drunken asshat on a regular basis.

Perhaps you should learn to know when to quit when you are only this far behind, KG. You are quite a hole for yourself here.

 

[hobelim]

what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not?

Everyone is going to the same place, whatever it is, because no one has EVER shown any real evidence of separate places like heaven and hell. Pretty simple really.

I think its unanimous among more rational people that the subject of heaven and hell according to the unrestrained imagination of believers is at best absurd.

That being said, did you ever consider that in scripture heaven and hell like the living and the dead are metaphors that allude to an actual state of conscious existence that many people here demonstrate?

Isn't what is posted on these boards evidence of minds existing in completely separate places?

Can't you perceive how people whose minds are filled with irrational nonsense that imprisons them in chains of ignorance and makes the fullness of life beyond their grasp are in a place of absence, confusion, mental anguish and emotional torment that perfectly fits the scriptural descriptions of hell however loud they shriek about being saved or writhe in anger about everyone else being damned?

See, you say stupid things like that, and yet you apparently expect people to take you seriously.

That first sentence just screams "I am an idiot who has absolutely no idea what I'm talking about."

Exactly.

You are an idiot who does not know what you are talking about, you who thinks that other people are going to hell for refusing to accept your perverse beliefs about salvation when those very perverse beliefs are evidence that you are already in it..

 

[Moonglow]

I am not ant-christian, but I do find the Bible to cover all their bases and then some.
What I don't like is those calling themselves Christians, yet in no way do they practice what they preach.

 

[Chuckt]

With all due respect, the people here are pretty smart and everything.

Yes, by and large, the people here are a cut above the average.

Which just goes to show on what a low level of consciousness the average human lives! · ·

.

I took a non accredited class at a Bible Institute and they will tell you what gets posted here wouldn't count for anything in a Bible accredited class.

 

[Avatar4321]

I thought the Bible said "judge not lest ye be judged".

Most of your posts are pretty judgmental KG.

You have no more understanding of that passage than you do of the rest of the bible, you drunken asshat.

Whoops, I judged again.

1 Corinthians 2:15

"The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one."

A truly "spiritual person" would never call someone a "drunken asshat"!

How exactly would you know that? How would you judge what a truly spiritual person would or wouldn't do?

 

[Derideo_Te]

How exactly would you know that? How would you judge what a truly spiritual person would or wouldn't do?

Do you know what the definition of spiritual means?

1. Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material. See Synonyms at immaterial.
2. Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul.
3. Of, from, or relating to God; deific.
4. Of or belonging to a church or religion; sacred.

Now does your God/church/religion condone the use of profane denigrating language when it comes to claiming to be the kind of "spiritual person" who will be appointed to "judge" others?

If your answer is "yes they do" then obviously you just disqualified yourself. If it is "no they don't" then you just disqualified KG.

 

[koshergrl]

Oh, *obviously*...

Lol...

Incidentally, you don't have the authority to disqualify me from anything. Particularly from a form of spirituality that you bash and demonstrably know dick about.

"So many times people, mostly teens have emailed us saying "judge not lest you be judged" regarding our analysis reports which reveal to their parents the content of movies. Using only Matt 7:1 is entirely incomplete. This verse is not speaking to not judging at all -- it is speaking to not judging unfairly or any other cheap and selfish way. "

Lol..this sentence speaks to the mentality and overall scholarship of the self-branded "learned" anti-Christian loons who carp this phrase ad nauseum...

In context:

"At Galilee, the Decapolis, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan, Jesus was talking to the multitudes gathered there after hearing of His message and of His healings to beseech them to not become like the pharisees and hypocrites who think they are above sin."

See people who aren't educated and don't understand not only the bible, but Christianity period, think that when we become Christians we are professing we are sin-free. That's just their own ignorance, and has nothing to do with reality. Which they would know if they ever picked up a book or took a class, or actually read the bible and studied it.

I know I'm not above sin. We're all sinners.

I also know I'm saved. And as I've pointed out repeatedly (but the juvenile bozos here can't seem to grasp) it's through none of my doing. You don't see my authority asserting itself when I tell you "accept the gift of Salvation and receive eternal life"..you see God's. But you can't seem to separate out the two.

"And, as a FEW examples of His desire for us to judge,


1Cor. 6:2-3 Do you not know that the saints [the saved; Christians] will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
Prov. 3:21 My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment, do not let them out of your sight;
John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Jer. 22:3 Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness...
Phil. 1:10 so that you may be able to discern [judge] what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ...
Phil. 1:7 It is right for me to feel this way about all of you [judge you]...

Matt 7:1 seems to support the allusion that we are not to judge at all if we use small-vision tactics by focusing on only that small piece of the total of what Jesus was saying.

Look at John 7:24. There, Jesus tells us to judge, but to do so righteously. Righteously means to use the Truth of the Word to discern sins and not by appearances only. In 1Cor. 6:2-3 Jesus authorizes us to judge. Judge we must else we could not discern good from bad, proper from improper, righteousness from evil. But judge behavior, not the individual; the deed not the doer; the choice not the chooser. The individual/doer/chooser is accountable for his/her deed/choice, but judge the deed/choice in your judgment. Jesus could see a king in a shepherd boy. And an Apostle in a murderer. So while we must judge one's behavior we must we try to nurture the goodness in an individual: to separate the deed from the doer.

And to continue, Matt 7:6 says. "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs (the KJV says "swine"). If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." How are we going to know as undesirable the behaviors of "dogs" and "swine" if we do not judge?

Yes, we do have the right and the authority to judge the behavior of others as long as we honor and obey His Word in doing so. That Jesus is the only one who can judge is speaking to judging whether someone is or is not saved. Neither you nor I nor anyone else who ever draws a breath (except Jesus) has the authority to say whether another has or has not been saved. Only Jesus can make that judgment since only He can give Salvation. Nor may we who discern poor behavior based on His Word think of ourselves as "better than" the one whose behavior we judge as poor."http://www.capalert.com/judgenot.htm