What do liberals want the US to be?

[Procrustes Stretched]

Ah, politicians have always lied, so it makes what Clinton did truth when he lied because he is a politician and they lie. I'm convinced now. Not.

Do you even understand my point? I am starting do doubt it. If Clinton counted the money as surplus, then he can't say he saved it in a trust fund and there was no surplus. If he said it was an asset saved by social security, then he can't say there was a surplus, government borrowed the money. It's not that complicated. Even FooledByEveryone gets it. He's claiming government can double count the revenue, which is ridiculous, but at least that's a grasp of the point. You have not demonstrated a grasp of the point.

The correct answer by the way is there was a surplus and there is no trust fund. No money was saved. But my point is that liberals make both arguments, which are contradictory. I'm pointing out that contradiction.

Did you ever read or did you contribute to writing this:

Alan Greenspan, who was worth his weight in gold as an advisor to Reagan, came to the rescue. He pointed out that there was a way to get more revenue without touching the income tax cuts.

Greenspan told Reagan that they could raise payroll taxes, and say they were doing it to strengthen Social Security. Then they could use the surplus revenue just like income- tax revenue.

It was a clever plan.

The surplus Social Security revenue from the payroll-tax increase wouldn’t be needed to pay actual benefits for 30 more years. Why not just put the money in the general fund, for now, and let future presidents worry about replacing it.

It probably didn’t seem like such and evil deed to Reagan and Greenspan at the time. After all, they were only “borrowing” the money. Hopefully some future president would repay it.

But the real effect of their action was to take money from working baby boomers, in the form of increased payroll taxes, and give that money to some of the richest Americans in the form of big income tax cuts. The Looting of Social Security

add this: Ronald Reagan and The Great Social Security Heist FedSmith.com

Is Dante aware that kaz is a libertarian, not a Republican? Kaz also believes in what is so and doesn't defend politicians who are wrong when they are wrong. Reagan was wrong. He should not have done that. And Greenspan was no friend of liberty. The fed is a criminal organization which steals from the American people and Greenspan was it's don and ran it as the criminal empire that it is.

Greenspan was hailed as a libertarian until people like you threw him under the proverbial bus.

Your rant is as as it gets.

Greenspan hailed as a "libertarian?" Who said that? Authoritarian leftist liberals? That's insane, he wasn't libertarian at all.

Nah, Greenspan was just an Ayn Rand disciple, lol

And he never strayed or grew or changed?

 

[Dad2three]

Did you ever read or did you contribute to writing this:

Alan Greenspan, who was worth his weight in gold as an advisor to Reagan, came to the rescue. He pointed out that there was a way to get more revenue without touching the income tax cuts.

Greenspan told Reagan that they could raise payroll taxes, and say they were doing it to strengthen Social Security. Then they could use the surplus revenue just like income- tax revenue.

It was a clever plan.

The surplus Social Security revenue from the payroll-tax increase wouldn’t be needed to pay actual benefits for 30 more years. Why not just put the money in the general fund, for now, and let future presidents worry about replacing it.

It probably didn’t seem like such and evil deed to Reagan and Greenspan at the time. After all, they were only “borrowing” the money. Hopefully some future president would repay it.

But the real effect of their action was to take money from working baby boomers, in the form of increased payroll taxes, and give that money to some of the richest Americans in the form of big income tax cuts. The Looting of Social Security

add this: Ronald Reagan and The Great Social Security Heist FedSmith.com

Is Dante aware that kaz is a libertarian, not a Republican? Kaz also believes in what is so and doesn't defend politicians who are wrong when they are wrong. Reagan was wrong. He should not have done that. And Greenspan was no friend of liberty. The fed is a criminal organization which steals from the American people and Greenspan was it's don and ran it as the criminal empire that it is.

Greenspan was hailed as a libertarian until people like you threw him under the proverbial bus.

Your rant is as as it gets.

Greenspan hailed as a "libertarian?" Who said that? Authoritarian leftist liberals? That's insane, he wasn't libertarian at all.

Nah, Greenspan was just an Ayn Rand disciple, lol

And he never strayed or grew or changed?

Not much. He 'believed in' markets self regulating. After the history of the US and worlds economies? lol

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Greenspan "has said that in a democratic society individuals have to make compromises with each other over conflicting ideas of how money should be handled. He said he himself had to make such compromises, because he believes that "we did extremely well" without a central bank and with a gold standard.[55]

In a Congressional hearing on October 23, 2008, Greenspan admitted that his free-market ideology shunning certain regulations was flawed.[56]

When asked about free markets and Rand's ideas in an interview on April 4, 2010, however, Greenspan clarified his stance on laissez faire capitalism and asserted that in a democratic society there could be no better alternative. He stated that the errors that were made stemmed not from the principle, but from the application of competitive markets in "assuming what the nature of risks would be.""
Alan Greenspan - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Dad2three]

Greenspan "has said that in a democratic society individuals have to make compromises with each other over conflicting ideas of how money should be handled. He said he himself had to make such compromises, because he believes that "we did extremely well" without a central bank and with a gold standard.[55]

In a Congressional hearing on October 23, 2008, Greenspan admitted that his free-market ideology shunning certain regulations was flawed.[56]

When asked about free markets and Rand's ideas in an interview on April 4, 2010, however, Greenspan clarified his stance on laissez faire capitalism and asserted that in a democratic society there could be no better alternative. He stated that the errors that were made stemmed not from the principle, but from the application of competitive markets in "assuming what the nature of risks would be.""
Alan Greenspan - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Jan 2008

Subprime Spillover: Foreclosures Cost Neighbors $202 Billion;

40.6 Million Homes Lose $5,000 on Average


As shown in Chart 1 below, 24 states and 38 counties will experience declines of over $1 billion each in local house prices and tax bases

http://www.responsiblelending.org/mortgage-lending/research-analysis/subprime-spillover.pdf



This shockingly high “failure rate” stems directly from the shockingly imprudent lending practices of the late-stage housing boom.

A few years ago, as home prices began escalating sharply, mortgage lenders devised ever-more-creative – and dangerous – ways for home buyers to purchase homes they could not genuinely afford. Hence, exotic loans evolved from 5-year adjustable-rate mortgages (ARMs), to one-year ARMs, to interest-only loans, to no-equity loans, to pay-option loans etc. – each variation more dangerous than the predecessor. All of these “flexible” loans provided some version of low initial payments, followed by much larger payments “down the road.”


The Housing Crash of 2008 - Free Market Caf


In many areas of the country, especially those areas with the highest appreciation during the bubble days, such non-standard loans went from being almost unheard of to prevalent. Eighty percent of all mortgages initiated in San Diego County in 2004 were adjustable-rate, and 47 percent were interest-only loans.

In addition to increasingly higher-risk loan options like ARMs and interest-only loans, lenders increasingly offered incentives for buyers. An estimated one-third of ARMs originated between 2004 and 2006 had “teaser” rates below 4 percent. A “teaser” rate, which is a very low but temporary introductory rate, would increase significantly after the initial period, sometimes doubling the monthly payment.


http://www.consejomexicano.org/Emails/subwprev.pdf




Regulators and policymakers enabled this process at virtually every turn. Part of the reason they failed to understand the housing bubble was willful ignorance: they bought into the argument that the market would equilibrate itself. In particular, financial actors and regulatory officials both believed that secondary and tertiary markets could effectively control risk through pricing.


http://www.tobinproject.org/sites/tobinproject.org/files/assets/Fligstein_Catalyst of Disaster_0.pdf

 

[kaz]

Got it, you'll stick with the right wings usual MO

Got it, I'm a Republican. You can't name a single thing that I am Republican and not libertarian. You're just an eight year old and Republican is the worst word that you know. I'm putting you on ignore because you are StillObsessedWIthW and all you want to do is argue with W. Even with me who thinks W was one of the worst presidents in our history. I am not interested in defending Republicans, particularly W, and you aren't interested in arguing with anyone but Republicans, particularly W. If that ever changes, let me know. In the meantime, you're a waste of my time since you won't address my views.

On your position that government can double count revenue even though no one else can and you'll chug their cum, that is why you are the authoritarian leftist that you are. All hail government. In the mean time, see ya...

 

[kaz]

Did you ever read or did you contribute to writing this:

Alan Greenspan, who was worth his weight in gold as an advisor to Reagan, came to the rescue. He pointed out that there was a way to get more revenue without touching the income tax cuts.

Greenspan told Reagan that they could raise payroll taxes, and say they were doing it to strengthen Social Security. Then they could use the surplus revenue just like income- tax revenue.

It was a clever plan.

The surplus Social Security revenue from the payroll-tax increase wouldn’t be needed to pay actual benefits for 30 more years. Why not just put the money in the general fund, for now, and let future presidents worry about replacing it.

It probably didn’t seem like such and evil deed to Reagan and Greenspan at the time. After all, they were only “borrowing” the money. Hopefully some future president would repay it.

But the real effect of their action was to take money from working baby boomers, in the form of increased payroll taxes, and give that money to some of the richest Americans in the form of big income tax cuts. The Looting of Social Security

add this: Ronald Reagan and The Great Social Security Heist FedSmith.com

Is Dante aware that kaz is a libertarian, not a Republican? Kaz also believes in what is so and doesn't defend politicians who are wrong when they are wrong. Reagan was wrong. He should not have done that. And Greenspan was no friend of liberty. The fed is a criminal organization which steals from the American people and Greenspan was it's don and ran it as the criminal empire that it is.

Greenspan was hailed as a libertarian until people like you threw him under the proverbial bus.

Your rant is as as it gets.

Greenspan hailed as a "libertarian?" Who said that? Authoritarian leftist liberals? That's insane, he wasn't libertarian at all.

Nah, Greenspan was just an Ayn Rand disciple, lol

And he never strayed or grew or changed?

Ayn Rand was a virtual anarchist, and you morons think she supported government setting interest rates and manipulating them to control rates of growth? That's preposterous, which is exactly what you are, preposterous.

 

[zeke]

Ayn Rand was a virtual anarchist,

Damn, I thought she was a novelist. She did write a couple of novels. Right? Then she was made a deity by the Republican party. And now she is a "virtual anarchist".

Hell, right now I thinks she's dead.

 

[kaz]

Ayn Rand was a virtual anarchist,

Damn, I thought she was a novelist. She did write a couple of novels. Right?

Ha ha? Is that supposed to be funny?

Then she was made a deity by the Republican party. And now she is a "virtual anarchist".

Well tyke, you are full of shit. Back this up, I won't hold my breath. Republicans have no use for her at all, what are you smoking?

Hell, right now I thinks she's dead.

Which is why I used "was," you know, past tense, moron.

 

[Redfish]

Is Dante aware that kaz is a libertarian, not a Republican? Kaz also believes in what is so and doesn't defend politicians who are wrong when they are wrong. Reagan was wrong. He should not have done that. And Greenspan was no friend of liberty. The fed is a criminal organization which steals from the American people and Greenspan was it's don and ran it as the criminal empire that it is.

Greenspan was hailed as a libertarian until people like you threw him under the proverbial bus.

Your rant is as as it gets.

Greenspan hailed as a "libertarian?" Who said that? Authoritarian leftist liberals? That's insane, he wasn't libertarian at all.

Nah, Greenspan was just an Ayn Rand disciple, lol

And he never strayed or grew or changed?

Ayn Rand was a virtual anarchist, and you morons think she supported government setting interest rates and manipulating them to control rates of growth? That's preposterous, which is exactly what you are, preposterous.

its quite obvious that you have not read Atlas Shrugged. You know nothing about Rand or her writings.

 

[Redfish]

Ayn Rand was a virtual anarchist,

Damn, I thought she was a novelist. She did write a couple of novels. Right? Then she was made a deity by the Republican party. And now she is a "virtual anarchist".

Hell, right now I thinks she's dead.

The message of her books is individual freedom and responsibility. Her writing style is difficult so its easy to understand why the minimally intelligent do not get it.

 

[zeke]

ican Party
Romney-Ryan Republicans pray to Jesus but bow to Ayn Rand
August 21, 2012|By David Horsey

• • 
    
  • 
    
    Email
    
    
    
    Share
    

• 

David Horsey / Los Angeles Times
Many Republicans believe theirs is the party of Jesus Christ, but, in practice, they are the party of an atheist, Hollywood intellectual named Ayn Rand.

After establishing a career as a screenwriter, Ayn Rand authored two novels, “The Fountainhead” and “Atlas Shrugged,” that are the intellectual bibles of libertarian conservatives, corporate executives and callow undergraduates. Among the many aspirational young conservatives inspired by Rand’s philosophy was a kid named Paul D. Ryan.

“The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand,” Ryan said in a 2005 speech. “I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are… It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff.”




You know what Kaz? If you would learn to use Google, you would come off a lot smarter. This was just one link of thousands showing the love of Rand that Republicans show.

Try it (Google) sometime. Just type in "Republican and Ayn Rand" Educate yourself.

Republicans have no use for her at all, what are you smoking?

 

[zeke]

its quite obvious that you have not read Atlas Shrugged. You know nothing about Rand or her writings.

I thought you and Kaz were on the same "side"? No more?

 

[zeke]

The message of her books is individual freedom and responsibility. Her writing style is difficult so its easy to understand why the minimally intelligent do not get it.

Why you picking on Kaz. He/she may only be "minimally intelligent" but he/she sure sounds like your equal.

 

[kaz]

Greenspan was hailed as a libertarian until people like you threw him under the proverbial bus.

Your rant is as as it gets.

Greenspan hailed as a "libertarian?" Who said that? Authoritarian leftist liberals? That's insane, he wasn't libertarian at all.

Nah, Greenspan was just an Ayn Rand disciple, lol

And he never strayed or grew or changed?

Ayn Rand was a virtual anarchist, and you morons think she supported government setting interest rates and manipulating them to control rates of growth? That's preposterous, which is exactly what you are, preposterous.

its quite obvious that you have not read Atlas Shrugged. You know nothing about Rand or her writings.

I hope you meant that towards dad2three because if you actually were referring to me than I'd say you just proved the reverse.

 

[kaz]

The message of her books is individual freedom and responsibility. Her writing style is difficult so its easy to understand why the minimally intelligent do not get it.

Why you picking on Kaz. He/she may only be "minimally intelligent" but he/she sure sounds like your equal.

Seriously, Tyke, Republicans don't follow Ayn Rand at all and you think they worship her? And you're calling anyone minimally intelligent? That's just comic.

Republicans love government just like you do, they just want to move the deck chairs on the Titanic around a bit.

 

[kaz]

Ayn Rand was a virtual anarchist,

Damn, I thought she was a novelist. She did write a couple of novels. Right? Then she was made a deity by the Republican party. And now she is a "virtual anarchist".

Hell, right now I thinks she's dead.

The message of her books is individual freedom and responsibility. Her writing style is difficult so its easy to understand why the minimally intelligent do not get it.

The Republican party supports government ownership of our bodies, meddling in other country's affairs and spending increases higher than inflation, GDP or any other measure of economic growth. When Republicans got the White House and both houses, W went on a spending orgy that was a Democrat's wet dream and they knocked the fiscal conservatives who objected out of their chairmanships and the best committees. If you think that's "individual freedom and responsibility" then you are as clueless as Tyke is.

 

[kaz]

Social Security History

Myth 4: President Roosevelt promised that the money the participants paid would be put into the independent "Trust Fund," rather than into the General operating fund, and therefore, would only be used to fund the Social Security Retirement program, and no other Government program

------------​

7 Myths You Probably Believe About Social Security - Forbes

Myth #2) Social Security won’t be there for young Americans.

Have you seen the statistic that more young Americans believe in UFOs than believe they’ll see a dime from Social Security? First, let’s start with the bad news. The Social Security trustees project that the Social Security trust fund will be depleted by 2033. At that point, there won’t be enough money in the system to pay all the promised benefits. That’s what people generally mean when they say the program is going “bankrupt.”

Now, here’s the good news. There will still be taxpayers paying into the system. (Bad news for them but good news for you if you’re collecting.) The trustees project there should be enough to pay between 75-80% of the benefits.

What does all this mean for you? You don’t have to assume Social Security won’t be there (which is practically politically impossible) but don’t assume you’ll get more than 75% of your projected benefits either. If the government ends up raising taxes, or increasing the retirement age, or reducing benefits more for higher-income people, you may end up with more than 75%, but it’s always better to err on the safe side.

------------​

and finally -- Social Security Benefits Myths Fears Facts - AARP The Magazine

What Dante posted has nothing to do with kaz's point.

contributions of facts hardly ever have anything to do with what kaz posts. Dante agress

Dante spends too much time arguing on playgrounds.

Kaz pointed out that the same money can not be both an asset and spent. Dante did not address that. Dante talked about whether government can pay the checks in the future. Whether the government can or not has nothing to do with kaz's point.

Like economics accounting is a form of voodoo

Not sure I get that one.

Democrats don't like economics because it keeps accurately predicting the disastrous effects of their government loving policies.

 

[kaz]

ican Party
Romney-Ryan Republicans pray to Jesus but bow to Ayn Rand
August 21, 2012|By David Horsey

• • 
    
  • 
    
    Email
    
    
    
    Share

• 

David Horsey / Los Angeles Times
Many Republicans believe theirs is the party of Jesus Christ, but, in practice, they are the party of an atheist, Hollywood intellectual named Ayn Rand.

After establishing a career as a screenwriter, Ayn Rand authored two novels, “The Fountainhead” and “Atlas Shrugged,” that are the intellectual bibles of libertarian conservatives, corporate executives and callow undergraduates. Among the many aspirational young conservatives inspired by Rand’s philosophy was a kid named Paul D. Ryan.

“The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand,” Ryan said in a 2005 speech. “I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are… It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff.”




You know what Kaz? If you would learn to use Google, you would come off a lot smarter. This was just one link of thousands showing the love of Rand that Republicans show.

Try it (Google) sometime. Just type in "Republican and Ayn Rand" Educate yourself.

Republicans have no use for her at all, what are you smoking?

So you think one quote by Paul Ryan, who unlike most Republicans is at least actually fiscally conservative, proves that the Republican party worships Ayn Rand? Wow, the intelligence just oozes from your posts.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

What Dante posted has nothing to do with kaz's point.

contributions of facts hardly ever have anything to do with what kaz posts. Dante agress

Dante spends too much time arguing on playgrounds.

Kaz pointed out that the same money can not be both an asset and spent. Dante did not address that. Dante talked about whether government can pay the checks in the future. Whether the government can or not has nothing to do with kaz's point.

Like economics accounting is a form of voodoo

Not sure I get that one.

Democrats don't like economics because it keeps accurately predicting the disastrous effects of their government loving policies.

I'll be sure to share this little nugget of imbecility with Paul Krugman when next we meet for dinner

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The message of her books is individual freedom and responsibility. Her writing style is difficult so its easy to understand why the minimally intelligent do not get it.

Why you picking on Kaz. He/she may only be "minimally intelligent" but he/she sure sounds like your equal.

Seriously, Tyke, Republicans don't follow Ayn Rand at all and you think they worship her? And you're calling anyone minimally intelligent? That's just comic.

Republicans love government just like you do, they just want to move the deck chairs on the Titanic around a bit.

Ah, Republicans are a monolithic group? You admit to thinking this way