What Does the Confederate Flag Mean To You ?

[ChrisL]

Why would your opinions change mine about the flag. I am quite sure that most people in the south associate it with their heritage and not with slavery.

Opinions?
I gave you the stated reasons why the southern states seceeded. The very reasons they chose to fight the war. There is no other interpretation. People in the south know this full well. As should you.

FYI, I have friends from the south and we have had this conversation. Do try to remember that regardless of whether or not you agree with what happened in ancient history, their ancestors fought and died under that flag, and that is a little more important than your feigned hurt feelings I think.

Ancient history?
My great grandfather was born during the war. My father's grandfather, a man my father knew. Not as long ago as you might think.

Yes, the south had ancestors in the war. We all did. The difference is the south fought to preserve slavery.They fought for the idea that white folks were superior to blacks and had a right to subjugate them for their own gain. Now you can pretend that was not the case but it was. I presented the very reasons for the war wherein this is apparent. I don't feign any outrage, it's very real.

So what? The US has fought some questionable laws, as have every other country on earth. None are free of atrocities. The flag stands for more than slavery for most people in the south. There was more to their way of life than just slavery.

"The flag stands for more than slavery for most white people in the south."

Modified your quote for accuracy. I'm not going to change any minds, only lay out the case for my thoughts on the matter. If some of what I present sinks in for some and begins a deeper thought process on the issue than good, if not then oh well.

If you haven't seen the President's eulogy I recommend you watch it. He speaks to many subjects including this. My hope is that some will find a deeper understanding.

Just because some people see it as a symbol of hatred, that does not mean they are accurate, and according to everyone I've spoken to from the south, they are far from accurate on what the flag stands for to a lot of people in the south.

 

[Liminal]

THAT is the flag OF Confederation.

The circle represents the UNION of states.

It doesn't matter what flag the confederates flew or when it was flown. They were all flown in the defense of slavery.

The stars and stripes represent slavery too. Our illustrious founding fathers created a slave republic, better tear down the US flag as well, all kinds of atrocities have been committed in the name of that flag.

Yeah, not really the same thing.
Your response seems all too familiar though. There are those calling for an end to all marriage after the recent ruling. It seems your kind want to blow it all up rather than deal with reality.

It seems to me more like chickenshit liberals and brain dead conservatives are both well satisfied with a symbolic victory; that way they can avoid directly addressing problems of racism and violence in this country.

Or maybe they can start addressing them together.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

What matters is what it means now. The Nazi's took a good symbol and turned it evil we can take an evil symbol and turn it good. What it means now is power to the State. Shooting a bird at the US and telling them Hell No We won't conform to your ideal! What matters is now not the ancient past.

Ancient past?

Let's not forget why it was put atop the SC statehouse in the first place. It was placed there in retaliation for desegregation. In part it was probably a big FU to the Fed but also as a reminder to black folks who was still in charge.

No, most people don't see it as a positive at all. They see it as a symbol of subjugation and repression. If it wasn't the CW it was the policies of Jim Crow and as icing on the cake, white supremacy. I suspect even a good amount of Repubs secretly agree but never had a tenable political opportunity to do anything about it. I was pleasantly surprised to see how the Repub governors of both SC and MS stepped up without political regard and did the right thing.

You think? I don't think most people give it much thought at all. Whenever I see it, I associate it with the south and that is all.

Agree. Being raised in California, all the Confederate Flag causes me to think about is history and Southern Fried Rock.

Not surprising.
What " history" do you think of that doesn't include what I offered?

I don't answer sneering "have you quit beating your wife" types of insinuating questions.

I was simply asking to what innocuous history you were referring to in your post.

 

[boedicca]

Ancient past?

Let's not forget why it was put atop the SC statehouse in the first place. It was placed there in retaliation for desegregation. In part it was probably a big FU to the Fed but also as a reminder to black folks who was still in charge.

No, most people don't see it as a positive at all. They see it as a symbol of subjugation and repression. If it wasn't the CW it was the policies of Jim Crow and as icing on the cake, white supremacy. I suspect even a good amount of Repubs secretly agree but never had a tenable political opportunity to do anything about it. I was pleasantly surprised to see how the Repub governors of both SC and MS stepped up without political regard and did the right thing.

You think? I don't think most people give it much thought at all. Whenever I see it, I associate it with the south and that is all.

Agree. Being raised in California, all the Confederate Flag causes me to think about is history and Southern Fried Rock.

Not surprising.
What " history" do you think of that doesn't include what I offered?

I don't answer sneering "have you quit beating your wife" types of insinuating questions.

I was simply asking to what innocuous history you were referring to in your post.

I didn't refer to innocuous history, you hack.

 

[PredFan]

Before all this faux outrage from the left, it meant very little. I guess I saw it as a flag of the old south.

Now I see it as a way to make liberals soil their panties. I just might have to get one.

No. In 2000 this issue was revisited in SC. It was still a non starter for Repubs but a compromise was reached. The compromise was the removal of the flag atop the statehouse to a position on the front lawn of the statehouse colocated with a confederate memorial. In return there was a memorial to African Americans placed in the back of the statehouse. Some things never change.
Still a big FU to black folks and still a quite clear message of who was still in charge.

You are confused. Read the OP again and then my answer.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Before all this faux outrage from the left, it meant very little. I guess I saw it as a flag of the old south.

Now I see it as a way to make liberals soil their panties. I just might have to get one.

No. In 2000 this issue was revisited in SC. It was still a non starter for Repubs but a compromise was reached. The compromise was the removal of the flag atop the statehouse to a position on the front lawn of the statehouse colocated with a confederate memorial. In return there was a memorial to African Americans placed in the back of the statehouse. Some things never change.
Still a big FU to black folks and still a quite clear message of who was still in charge.

You are confused. Read the OP again and then my answer.

You seem to be confused. You called it " faux outrage" and said " it meant very little".
I pointed out why you were wrong. BTW, it is conservatives who are removing flags not liberals.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You think? I don't think most people give it much thought at all. Whenever I see it, I associate it with the south and that is all.

Agree. Being raised in California, all the Confederate Flag causes me to think about is history and Southern Fried Rock.

Not surprising.
What " history" do you think of that doesn't include what I offered?

I don't answer sneering "have you quit beating your wife" types of insinuating questions.

I was simply asking to what innocuous history you were referring to in your post.

I didn't refer to innocuous history, you hack.

It must be innocuous then if it's not the history I pointed to, right? You didn't seem to think the history was a problem.

 

[ChrisL]

Agree. Being raised in California, all the Confederate Flag causes me to think about is history and Southern Fried Rock.

Not surprising.
What " history" do you think of that doesn't include what I offered?

I don't answer sneering "have you quit beating your wife" types of insinuating questions.

I was simply asking to what innocuous history you were referring to in your post.

I didn't refer to innocuous history, you hack.

It must be innocuous then if it's not the history I pointed to, right? You didn't seem to think the history was a problem.

Do you think southern culture includes ONLY slavery? No! Southern culture is made up of all kinds of things, food, music, the way they say "crick" instead of "creek", etc.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Not surprising.
What " history" do you think of that doesn't include what I offered?

I don't answer sneering "have you quit beating your wife" types of insinuating questions.

I was simply asking to what innocuous history you were referring to in your post.

I didn't refer to innocuous history, you hack.

It must be innocuous then if it's not the history I pointed to, right? You didn't seem to think the history was a problem.

Do you think southern culture includes ONLY slavery? No! Southern culture is made up of all kinds of things, food, music, the way they say "crick" instead of "creek", etc.

The flag. We are talking about the flag . Not cornbread and grits.

 

[ChrisL]

I don't answer sneering "have you quit beating your wife" types of insinuating questions.

I was simply asking to what innocuous history you were referring to in your post.

I didn't refer to innocuous history, you hack.

It must be innocuous then if it's not the history I pointed to, right? You didn't seem to think the history was a problem.

Do you think southern culture includes ONLY slavery? No! Southern culture is made up of all kinds of things, food, music, the way they say "crick" instead of "creek", etc.

The flag. We are talking about the flag . Not cornbread and grits.

But your flag stands for all of those things. Everything that makes up your culture, country, or whatever your flag stands for. I am telling you that for most southern people, the flag represents a lot of things about their history and culture.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I was simply asking to what innocuous history you were referring to in your post.

I didn't refer to innocuous history, you hack.

It must be innocuous then if it's not the history I pointed to, right? You didn't seem to think the history was a problem.

Do you think southern culture includes ONLY slavery? No! Southern culture is made up of all kinds of things, food, music, the way they say "crick" instead of "creek", etc.

The flag. We are talking about the flag . Not cornbread and grits.

But your flag stands for all of those things. Everything that makes up your culture, country, or whatever your flag stands for. I am telling you that for most southern people, the flag represents a lot of things about their history and culture.

My flag? What are you talking about?
The stars and stripes fought against slavery.
Your argument is like Germans flying the swastika and saying yeah the Nazis were bad but the flag represents the brave German soldiers who fought and died and our proud history of fine beer and sausage.
It make no sense whatsoever.

 

[ChrisL]

I didn't refer to innocuous history, you hack.

It must be innocuous then if it's not the history I pointed to, right? You didn't seem to think the history was a problem.

Do you think southern culture includes ONLY slavery? No! Southern culture is made up of all kinds of things, food, music, the way they say "crick" instead of "creek", etc.

The flag. We are talking about the flag . Not cornbread and grits.

But your flag stands for all of those things. Everything that makes up your culture, country, or whatever your flag stands for. I am telling you that for most southern people, the flag represents a lot of things about their history and culture.

My flag? What are you talking about?
The stars and stripes fought against slavery.
Your argument is like Germans flying the swastika and saying yeah the Nazis were bad but the flag represents the brave German soldiers who fought and died and our proud history of fine beer and sausage.
It make no sense whatsoever.

The Nazi flag stood for the Nazis and their race purity schemes. That is not the case with the southern flag. It is a symbol of "southern pride" not "white pride" to most southerners that I have spoken to. Symbols stand for what the person interpreting it decides. Your opinion on what it stands for is NOT universal.

 

[ChrisL]

I didn't refer to innocuous history, you hack.

It must be innocuous then if it's not the history I pointed to, right? You didn't seem to think the history was a problem.

Do you think southern culture includes ONLY slavery? No! Southern culture is made up of all kinds of things, food, music, the way they say "crick" instead of "creek", etc.

The flag. We are talking about the flag . Not cornbread and grits.

But your flag stands for all of those things. Everything that makes up your culture, country, or whatever your flag stands for. I am telling you that for most southern people, the flag represents a lot of things about their history and culture.

My flag? What are you talking about?
The stars and stripes fought against slavery.
Your argument is like Germans flying the swastika and saying yeah the Nazis were bad but the flag represents the brave German soldiers who fought and died and our proud history of fine beer and sausage.
It make no sense whatsoever.

And people in Japan might think our flag stands for A bomb holocausts. If they demand we abandon our flag because of our past atrocities, are you game for that too?

 

[boedicca]

I didn't refer to innocuous history, you hack.

It must be innocuous then if it's not the history I pointed to, right? You didn't seem to think the history was a problem.

Do you think southern culture includes ONLY slavery? No! Southern culture is made up of all kinds of things, food, music, the way they say "crick" instead of "creek", etc.

The flag. We are talking about the flag . Not cornbread and grits.

But your flag stands for all of those things. Everything that makes up your culture, country, or whatever your flag stands for. I am telling you that for most southern people, the flag represents a lot of things about their history and culture.

My flag? What are you talking about?
The stars and stripes fought against slavery.
Your argument is like Germans flying the swastika and saying yeah the Nazis were bad but the flag represents the brave German soldiers who fought and died and our proud history of fine beer and sausage.
It make no sense whatsoever.

Nonsense. The Confederates were protecting their home region and way of life. However much we may disagree with their viewpoint, they were not the equivalent of expansionist Nazis. States of the South were peers of the North, and had differing views of the economy and the role slavery should play. Many Southerners paid a huge price as the country quite rightly abolished slavery and amended The Constitution. Given that price and subsequent reforms, one would hope we could now appreciate the past being the past instead of using said past to foment Racial Strife (ala the Prog agenda).

 

[cnm]

The Confederates were protecting their home region and way of life.

The very cornerstone of which was the inferiority of the black man. I mean, they came right out and said it. Proudly.

 

[boedicca]

The Confederates were protecting their home region and way of life.

The very cornerstone of which was the inferiority of the black man. I mean, they came right out and said it. Proudly.

I see you didn't bother to read my entire post. It wasn't very long, but it's clearly beyond your attention span.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

It must be innocuous then if it's not the history I pointed to, right? You didn't seem to think the history was a problem.

Do you think southern culture includes ONLY slavery? No! Southern culture is made up of all kinds of things, food, music, the way they say "crick" instead of "creek", etc.

The flag. We are talking about the flag . Not cornbread and grits.

But your flag stands for all of those things. Everything that makes up your culture, country, or whatever your flag stands for. I am telling you that for most southern people, the flag represents a lot of things about their history and culture.

My flag? What are you talking about?
The stars and stripes fought against slavery.
Your argument is like Germans flying the swastika and saying yeah the Nazis were bad but the flag represents the brave German soldiers who fought and died and our proud history of fine beer and sausage.
It make no sense whatsoever.

Nonsense. The Confederates were protecting their home region and way of life. However much we may disagree with their viewpoint, they were not the equivalent of expansionist Nazis. States of the South were peers of the North, and had differing views of the economy and the role slavery should play. Many Southerners paid a huge price as the country quite rightly abolished slavery and amended The Constitution. Given that price and subsequent reforms, one would hope we could now appreciate the past being the past instead of using said past to foment Racial Strife (ala the Prog agenda).

Here’s the Racist Meaning Of the Confederate Flag, In the Words of the Man Who Designed It

The following is Thompson quoted in an excerpt from the book Our Flag by George Preble:

Source: George Preble/Our Flag
If that isn't clear enough for you, Thompson then wrote that this new flag would "be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN'S FLAG" (sic):

Here s the Racist Meaning Of the Confederate Flag In the Words of the Man Who Designed It - Mic


Now if you still believe it is open to interpretation and still just a symbol of southern heritage, then you are daft.

 

[PredFan]

Before all this faux outrage from the left, it meant very little. I guess I saw it as a flag of the old south.

Now I see it as a way to make liberals soil their panties. I just might have to get one.

No. In 2000 this issue was revisited in SC. It was still a non starter for Repubs but a compromise was reached. The compromise was the removal of the flag atop the statehouse to a position on the front lawn of the statehouse colocated with a confederate memorial. In return there was a memorial to African Americans placed in the back of the statehouse. Some things never change.
Still a big FU to black folks and still a quite clear message of who was still in charge.

You are confused. Read the OP again and then my answer.

You seem to be confused. You called it " faux outrage" and said " it meant very little".
I pointed out why you were wrong. BTW, it is conservatives who are removing flags not liberals.

You didn't read it did you? If you did, you certainly have difficulty with reading comprehension.

I said it meant very little, and it should be very obvious, if you understand the OP, the title of the thread and my response that it meant very little TO ME. I cannot be wrong about what it meant TO ME. Get it yet? Because if you still don't understand then I cannot help you.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Before all this faux outrage from the left, it meant very little. I guess I saw it as a flag of the old south.

Now I see it as a way to make liberals soil their panties. I just might have to get one.

No. In 2000 this issue was revisited in SC. It was still a non starter for Repubs but a compromise was reached. The compromise was the removal of the flag atop the statehouse to a position on the front lawn of the statehouse colocated with a confederate memorial. In return there was a memorial to African Americans placed in the back of the statehouse. Some things never change.
Still a big FU to black folks and still a quite clear message of who was still in charge.

You are confused. Read the OP again and then my answer.

You seem to be confused. You called it " faux outrage" and said " it meant very little".
I pointed out why you were wrong. BTW, it is conservatives who are removing flags not liberals.

You didn't read it did you? If you did, you certainly have difficulty with reading comprehension.

I said it meant very little, and it should be very obvious, if you understand the OP, the title of the thread and my response that it meant very little TO ME. I cannot be wrong about what it meant TO ME. Get it yet? Because if you still don't understand then I cannot help you.

What does it mean to you now that you know more about it?

 

[boedicca]

The germane racist section is from an editorial written by Mr.Thompson of the Savannah Morning News. It is his view, and is not supported by the earlier debates about the flag described in the book.