What government or political party has the capability to get America back on track to be great?

[iceberg]

Image problems will greatly improve as soon as we are Trumpless.

I doubt it. Yea a lot of people dislike him but just replacing him wont be enough we need action not words and a president who is actually for the people and their needs.

we can't continue to push one sides values over the other. that is the core of how we got here.

Oh my. Your core has been exposed to have nothing to do with family values, or religion, or any of the things the right has gone on about for the last couple of decades, so you think we should just not mention it any more. Imagine that.

my core is just fine. it may not agree with yours but i'm not the one demanding you change to suit my "vision" of how people should be.

as for "nothing to do with religion" - you don't fucking know me. don't go there. you are doing the typical liberal bullshit of taking what i said and forcing it into your extreme views vs. seeing what i am actually saying.

imagine that.

If you are a right winger, your goto statement suddenly went from "Our representatives HAVE to declare loyalty to Christian beliefs" to "We aren't electing a preacher" Why the sudden change?

am i a right winger or are you arguing against someone NOT me at this point so you can use your bullet points?

 

[iceberg]

are you saying we never demonized the other side til he was elected?

or is that just your excuse to hold onto so you can keep doing it?

There has been vitriol between political parties since colonial times. The most recent increase in hatred started with Tom Delay and Neut Gingrich, and has increased drastically since.

so why is bashing trump the answer to most of your problems? seems to me it's a continuation of something we know keeps us in a perpetual cycle of crap.

Because that's what other people are doing. I don't care what anyone says Trump accomplished more than most people will even come close to. He might not be best fit for president but he came from nothing and that right there is proof anyone can.

i don't like trump as a person. i don't have to. so far as president i'm happy with where he is going and accomplishing.

those who think the president needs to be a solid role model and ideal citizen are foolish and forget clinton's lies and own sexcipades. they overlooked that cause they liked him. they don't like trump so nothing gets overlooked.

pretty much human nature but still annoying when people can't see past that shit.

Odd, but the right spent millions demanding role model behavior, but suddenly it's not important. Why?

why not argue with those who feel that way? right now you're arguing with someone NOT me so you can continue to stereotype and use your pre-defined arguments.

 

[Darkwind]

Self government is the only government that will make us great.

Until we stop demanding politicians do things for us with the money off others, we won't reach our potential or solve our problems

Representation Is a Re-Presentation of Medieval Class Tyranny

The people need to be given the right to vote on all major issues. Elections aren't voting, they are a choice between pre-owned candidates who will do all the voting for us. We would have never given the vote to groups that want to freeload off the rest of us. So you're dishonestly blaming democracy for what the politicians empowered by representative government forced on us. A Constitutional Republic is hardly self-government, it is an oligarchy.

Mob rule is the worst form of government. You do realize that, right?

 

[iceberg]

are you saying we never demonized the other side til he was elected?

or is that just your excuse to hold onto so you can keep doing it?

There has been vitriol between political parties since colonial times. The most recent increase in hatred started with Tom Delay and Neut Gingrich, and has increased drastically since.

so why is bashing trump the answer to most of your problems? seems to me it's a continuation of something we know keeps us in a perpetual cycle of crap.

Not bashing trump. Opposing the crap he is trying to do.

so asshole in chief is directed at what particular action? comes across as your general trump bashing.

i want to talk about the problems, not people. people of all mixes, sides and beliefs are going to be in the mix trying to resolve them and alienating people cause you don't like them isn't helping the long term strategy all sides would benefit from.

If you think it's so important to stop alienating people, then stop. I know it will be hard after so many years. That crazy president we have will probably never be able to do it.

maybe not.

but i am talking to you - not him. yet you keep holding me accountable for trumps behavior for no other reason than i don't hate him as much as you do. this seems to be your core problem - you argue against things, not talk with people.

if you think i'm alienating you by simply not engaging in stereotypes then that's fine and your call, nothing i'm setting out to do.

 

[ThatDude30]

Obviously America has been experiencing some major issues. Such as poverty, racism, people homeless, the middleclass dying out, people not being able to fully cover their annual cost of living expenses, illegal immigration, lack of affordable education, lack of affordable healthcare, unemployment, crime, mass shootings, welfare, wars with other countries, total national debt increasing, terrorism, the US dollar decreasing in value and I'm sure I missed some. So with all these issues America is experiencing, which type of government or political party do you think has the best chance getting America back on track? Or should America take on a whole different type of government?

The fault doesn't lie in our type of government - but there is an issue with the scope of it. The poison's in the dose. Ultimately, I fault the electorate, us. Our government is a reflection of the people...a totalitarian style of government is far less messy, in some ways.

The issues as you've listed them -

Poverty - we've spent over 20 Trillion fighting the war on poverty. For the most part, poverty in this country is a relative term. Compare the life style of our bottom 10% with the majority of other nations 30%. Also remember poverty designations and percentages come from government agencies whose existence depends on fighting poverty. Our biggest poverty problem today is one of the poverty of ambition.
Racism - Nothing today compares to racism pre-mid '60's. Though todays lowered expectations is a form of racism that is destructive. There are those whose power, or hold, over minorities depends, on the narrative of racism being alive and well, despite 8 years of a black president. The politics of victimhood has become profitable.
Homelessness - Also a matter of definition and in most cases temporary, or even voluntary in some instances. Are the bag lady pushing her shopping cart and the unshaven man living under a bridge homeless by choice?...are they mentally ill and belong in an institution. If you don't have interest in a home, or have a rental lease - you are technically homeless.
Middle class - the parameters are changeable - many are moving up.
Cost of living - there is a government definition of that also. But many are simply living above their income, not within or below it. Minimum wage jobs are traditionally for those just entering the job market, part time workers and retirees who are either bored or would like a little more income.
Illegal immigration - we have adequate laws - they need to be enforced.
Education - We provide free education, pre-school through 12th grade to every child who walks into the classroom. Citizen or not.
Healthcare - Currently, anyone needing care will not be turned away from any hospital. Nearly every community has a health department offering free services. The more the government becomes involved, the higher the costs of insurance and services.
Unemployment, crime, welfare - an improving economy can go a long way toward mitigating those issues.
Mass shootings - The first mass shooting I remember was the Texas Tower Sniper in 1966. The Oklahoma City bombing was 22 years ago. It takes a mentally deranged person to target innocent people. Do we have a higher percentage of mentally deranged per population than in the past? I don't know - but the media blitz on how terrible life is here, and how they define hatred and evil by your political affiliations doesn't help.
Wars with other countries - this has been an issue since the end of WWII. In looking back over the devastation and loss of life world wide during the first half of the 20th century - I can understand the mentality of 'never again' - leading to the attempt to put out small fires before they become big ones. Churchill said that never was there a more unnecessary war than WWII. Hitler could have been contained much earlier. This world has never been free of wars. In my opinion - if a war is necessary, then it must be fought by generals to be won, not politicians to be lost.
Total national debt increasing - In my opinion our biggest issue - much of which is spent trying to address all the above issues. A thriving economy and a bit of spending restraint will go a very long way toward addressing the debt, as well as some of your areas of concern. Most of the federal budget is taken up by Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid - find a politician brave enough to address those issues and it might be somebody worth voting for. Though it will take more than one lawmaker - it will take an electorate who can move beyond 'getting what's coming to me'.

One more -
Affordable - An extremely subjective term. Is the latest technology 'affordable' if you choose to let others pick up the tab for your dr. bill, electric bill, food bill? If I spend more than I can make is it because I make too little, or spend too much? Credit gives us all a false sense of what we can 'afford'.

Anyway, I don't mean to diminish your concerns - am only attempting to add a little perspective. There is a big push to 'reinvent' the constitution and convince us that more government is the only solution. In my opinion more government is the problem.

Well said.

Yea these problems may have been worse in other periods of time and will never be completely absent but they could be more manageable. Free education pre-school through 12th isn't enough anymore. You cant not afford continued education just off that and with out any type of help. I don't believe the government is the reflection of the people at all. I also blame voters only voting for someone based on their race or likability. You know every black person voted for Obama because he is black and not for his promises.

So your solutions are more government. Got it.

You, and the rest of the people on this forum continue to ask the wrong question and support the wrong people out of fear of not being taken care of.

Education is not a federal responsibility. It has never been, and the fact that they created a department and funnel money through it does not alter that fact. We don't need more free education, we need better-directed education and a realization that college isn't the only answer.

I don't know about you, but I'm rather addicted to electricity and indoor plumbing, infrastructure, communications. We need elementary and high schools focused on education that matters to our economy, not to our politics. That would go a long way toward eliminating 80% of your list right there.

My solution is not more government but a government with better intentions and understanding of the people and with the right priorities.

To focus more on their own people before other countries. There are programs that could be put in place to better help and serve this country. Shit I can even come up with programs and how to fund it and how to put it in action, they should be able to too.

Have stricter taxes for those American citizens who take American jobs overseas just to save a buck. Raise the minimum wage to a rate that no matter what it will be enough to cover anyone's annual cost of living expenses that works full time.

Grant leniency towards education. There are people who would love to go to college or trade skill but simply cant afford too, and they should be able too. Lack of education is one of the main causes for the poverty rate, so provide affordable or free education to those who actually want it would decrease the poverty rate tremendously.

Develop stricter laws for companies who hire illegal immigrants to save a buck. Actually put forth the effort by working with local communities and the people to wean out illegal immigrants who are stealing American jobs.

Not more government but a more beneficial government.

And as to your opinion on skilled trades to be introduced to earlier grades I totally agree. By the time kids hit the 9th grade most general subjects shouldn't be in the curriculum and more advanced studies should be saved for college and taught if that's what you need to know for your career of choice. Not taught in high school when majority of the people don't or wont need to know it.

Add in more technology, business, politics and economic, and skilled trades and careers of the present and future. High school shouldn't prepare you for college it should prepare you for real life and give you general knowledge and experience in variety of different career choices to help you decide which path to go.

Most graduates don't even know what they want to do after they graduate high school and some go the wrong route and end up going for something the actually don't want as a career and either have to go throw it again or be stuck with their poor decision simply because they cant afford to go back to school.

By the time you graduate you should be exposed to a variety of skills and different career choices to help you determine what career is right for you.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Or should America take on a whole different type of government?

If we stuck to the constitution we'd be fine.

Foaming-at-the Mouth Fanatics Worship It Like Fundamentalists Do the Bible

Despite massive cradle-to-grave brainwashing by the present 1%, the Constitution is an anti-democratic manifesto written behind closed doors by lawyers for the 18th Century 1%. Pathetic political bullies trying to make themselves feel superior to the majority constantly push that self-declared supremacy document on us. If we are to survive, Americans better start standing up to those who try to smother our will by pushing a blueprint for elitist tyranny in our faces.

 

[easyt65]

'What government or political party has the capability to get America back on track to be great?'

NONE.

History has shown the Left, when in power, drags the US - government / culture / laws / society / to the Left, re-defining 'the center', They call it 'progress'. When Conservatives take power they can, at best, DELAY the continued march to the Left. Republicans never accomplish anything that moves the 'meter' back to the right. We are currently in a 'holding' pattern, a delay.

One can no more 'put the genie back in the bottle' than to reverse the course of history / 'progress'.

....in addition, the definition of 'great', as in 'make America great again', is subjective. For instance, in all of the decades of history Michele Obama lived through prior to her husband being elected President, at no time in that time did ever find one thing to be proud of - nothing she saw as 'great' - as an American.

 

[Darkwind]

My solution is not more government but a government with better intentions and understanding of the people and with the right priorities.

Again, the wrong solution. That is just another way of saying more government. We need less Federal Government, and the Federal Government that we do need MUST be locked tightly into the box that is outlined by the Constitution.

To focus more on their own people before other countries. There are programs that could be put in place to better help and serve this country. Shit I can even come up with programs and how to fund it and how to put it in action, they should be able to too.

In fact, the Federal Governments responsibility is to deal with other countries in the world. The feds are tasked with...

1. Keeping us safe from the threats of other countries.
2. Be the people's representative to the rest of the world by negotiations and treaties.
3. Settle disputes between the States.

The focus of the Federal Government should not be on the people, but on the country and to leave the governance of the people to the States.

Have stricter taxes for those American citizens who take American jobs overseas just to save a buck. Raise the minimum wage to a rate that no matter what it will be enough to cover anyone's annual cost of living expenses that works full time.

Any taxation that singles out any one group of people, or individuals is a criminal act in My opinion and we need to make a Constitutional Amendment that not only balances the budget but forbids the Federal Government from singling out any one class of people for special taxation.

Grant leniency towards education. There are people who would love to go to college or trade skill but simply cant afford too, and they should be able too. Lack of education is one of the main causes for the poverty rate, so provide affordable or free education to those who actually want it would decrease the poverty rate tremendously.

The matter of affordability is probably the single biggest civil violation perpetrated against the American people. Affordability of education, or any economic indicator, should never be a focus of the government.

There are people who have never attended college or any form of higher education (indeed, some haven't even finished high school) who are better trained at their jobs then people leaving college with Master Degrees. Truthfully, many of them are more intelligent as well.

The elitist attitude toward an education needs to be done away with.

Develop stricter laws for companies who hire illegal immigrants to save a buck. Actually put forth the effort by working with local communities and the people to wean out illegal immigrants who are stealing American jobs.

Agreed, it is a responsibility of the feds to protect our borders and keep illegals out of our country.

Not more government but a more beneficial government.

Two words. Smaller Government.

And as to your opinion on skilled trades to be introduced to earlier grades I totally agree. By the time kids hit the 9th grade most general subjects shouldn't be in the curriculum and more advanced studies should be saved for college and taught if that's what you need to know for your career of choice. Not taught in high school when majority of the people don't or wont need to know it.

Add in more technology, business, politics and economic, and skilled trades and careers of the present and future. High school shouldn't prepare you for college it should prepare you for real life and give you general knowledge and experience in variety of different career choices to help you decide which path to go.

Most graduates don't even know what they want to do after they graduate high school and some go the wrong route and end up going for something the actually don't want as a career and either have to go throw it again or be stuck with their poor decision simply because they cant afford to go back to school.

By the time you graduate you should be exposed to a variety of skills and different career choices to help you determine what career is right for you.

My views are people shouldn't go to college right out of high school. They should be required to spend at least 5 years working in any company as a means of understanding what it really means to be an employee.


Sonmething managed to get screwed up. Most of My reply is inside the quoted material.

 

[Avatar4321]

are you saying we never demonized the other side til he was elected?

or is that just your excuse to hold onto so you can keep doing it?

There has been vitriol between political parties since colonial times. The most recent increase in hatred started with Tom Delay and Neut Gingrich, and has increased drastically since.

so why is bashing trump the answer to most of your problems? seems to me it's a continuation of something we know keeps us in a perpetual cycle of crap.

Because that's what other people are doing. I don't care what anyone says Trump accomplished more than most people will even come close to. He might not be best fit for president but he came from nothing and that right there is proof anyone can.

i don't like trump as a person. i don't have to. so far as president i'm happy with where he is going and accomplishing.

those who think the president needs to be a solid role model and ideal citizen are foolish and forget clinton's lies and own sexcipades. they overlooked that cause they liked him. they don't like trump so nothing gets overlooked.

pretty much human nature but still annoying when people can't see past that shit.

Odd, but the right spent millions demanding role model behavior, but suddenly it's not important. Why?

Because a plurality of the party liked him despite his character flaws and the alternative was evil personified

 

[ThatDude30]

One year the government spent over $365 mil to get a health care program approved and it didn't. So $365 mil was tossed in the garbage.

The average cost of tuition and fees for the 2016-2017 school year was $33,480 at private colleges, $9,650 for state residents at public colleges, and $24,930 for out of state residents attending public universities.

So lets divide that $365 mil up between the three average tuition cost and fees. That will be $121.6 mil. $121.6 mil would of covered 3,634 students annual tuition cost of $33,480. $121.6 mil would of covered 12,601 students annual tuition cost of $9,650. $121.6 mil would of covered 4,877 students annual tuition cost of $24,930. So that $365 mil that was thrown in the trash could of sent 21,112 people to college who cant afford it, and the government could even make that $365 mil back by loans after they graduate and become stable in career of choice.

They say the government wastes more then $1 trillion dollars every year when that money could benefit and serve a better purpose to the American people.

 

[ThatDude30]

are you saying we never demonized the other side til he was elected?

or is that just your excuse to hold onto so you can keep doing it?

There has been vitriol between political parties since colonial times. The most recent increase in hatred started with Tom Delay and Neut Gingrich, and has increased drastically since.

so why is bashing trump the answer to most of your problems? seems to me it's a continuation of something we know keeps us in a perpetual cycle of crap.

Because that's what other people are doing. I don't care what anyone says Trump accomplished more than most people will even come close to. He might not be best fit for president but he came from nothing and that right there is proof anyone can.

i don't like trump as a person. i don't have to. so far as president i'm happy with where he is going and accomplishing.

those who think the president needs to be a solid role model and ideal citizen are foolish and forget clinton's lies and own sexcipades. they overlooked that cause they liked him. they don't like trump so nothing gets overlooked.

pretty much human nature but still annoying when people can't see past that shit.

Odd, but the right spent millions demanding role model behavior, but suddenly it's not important. Why?

You do realize that its not just the right who waste money right ? The government as a total waste $1 trillion dollars every single year. Why?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

We need to stop relying being so dependent on the government.

What does that mean? Who do you think is dependent on the government?

Likely the monetary policy. That's how I'd answer it.

Explain your version.

It's rather simple. We have economic interventionism. We have a planned economy. We have a welfare state. We have inflationism. We have central economic planning by a central bank. We have a belief in deficit financing. It is so far removed from free-market capitalism that it’s foolish. We're monetizing debt and printing money out of thin air. The poor, middle class, and seniors are being wiped out by the inflationism. Everybody's complaining about raises when they should be complaining about the monetary policy that puts them in the poor house.

Instead of the Keynesian economic model that is destryoing our dollar (down 98% since WWII), we should return to the free markets where the markets tell the government what to do instead of the other way around like we have now where the government dictates the economy.

This Little Piggy Went to Market

The "free market" is nothing but anarchy, where the predators soon achieve absolute tyranny. Money-obsessed zombies should have no power over us.

 

[Natural Citizen]

The "free market" is nothing but anarchy, where the predators soon achieve absolute tyranny. Money-obsessed zombies should have no power over us.

Dude, go play with your crayons. lol.

 

[ThatDude30]

To me we need a President who is neither Republican nor Democrat. We need a President who is a realist and sees shit as it is. We need to get rid of all the idiots who are involved in running this country for the fact many probably don't know how it is to struggle as an American. They all got fed with a silver spoon and everything handed to them so they really don't know how shit is.

They grow up in an environment that doesn't see the other side, The poor, the hard worker living pay check to pay check, having to worry about being a victim of a crime at any moment. They only know what is told to them and till one experiences it they can never really have an understanding.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

And something else, the socialists are smart enough to understand that we don't have anything close to capitalism going on. The socialists know that we have a planned, controlled, economy. That's why they're so interested in it. It's the so called conservatives who don't know. They're over there defending what they think is capitalism except they're actually defending socialism...a controlled economy...Keynesianism. So what happens is that the so called conservatives end up as useful idiots for the socialists. The so called conservatives end up promoting socialism in the name of capitalism when there is nothing capitalist about it. And the socialists know what they're doing. lol.

Statism and Selfism

Those twin ideologies, which arose from the same privileged and sheltered source, are self-serving. So they should be called CapitalisTism and SocialisTism. Outside ownership is an unnecessary evil. Let those who work at a business be the sole owners, equal shares with different salaries.

 

[ThatDude30]

...we need action not words and a president who is actually for the people and their needs.

We had one. The GOP created Rule # 40 and the media blacked him out. Pay particular attention to the 4:38 mark and forward...

dude.

 

[ThatDude30]

...we need action not words and a president who is actually for the people and their needs.

We had one. The GOP created Rule # 40 and the media blacked him out. Pay particular attention to the 4:38 mark and forward...

dude.

We need someone like that. That's what I mean

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

One year the government spent over $365 mil to get a health care program approved and it didn't. So $365 mil was tossed in the garbage.

The average cost of tuition and fees for the 2016-2017 school year was $33,480 at private colleges, $9,650 for state residents at public colleges, and $24,930 for out of state residents attending public universities.

So lets divide that $365 mil up between the three average tuition cost and fees. That will be $121.6 mil. $121.6 mil would of covered 3,634 students annual tuition cost of $33,480. $121.6 mil would of covered 12,601 students annual tuition cost of $9,650. $121.6 mil would of covered 4,877 students annual tuition cost of $24,930. So that $365 mil that was thrown in the trash could of sent 21,112 people to college who cant afford it, and the government could even make that $365 mil back by loans after they graduate and become stable in career of choice.

They say the government wastes more then $1 trillion dollars every year when that money could benefit and serve a better purpose to the American people.

Graduates Are Bluebloods and Brownnoses, Not Brains

Tuition is not the most important thing, or the rich who mandate this educational requirement would only give their college children free tuition and make them live in student poverty, like teenagers afraid to grow up. Also, how many star high-school athletes would accept a "scholarship" that was free-tuition only?

They better pay us in college or someday real men will make them pay for that indentured servitude. Those who submit to the plutocracy's rules steal jobs from people who have self-respect.

 

[ThatDude30]

...we need action not words and a president who is actually for the people and their needs.

We had one. The GOP created Rule # 40 and the media blacked him out. Pay particular attention to the 4:38 mark and forward...

dude.

We need someone like that. That's what I mean

Obviously America has been experiencing some major issues. Such as poverty, racism, people homeless, the middleclass dying out, people not being able to fully cover their annual cost of living expenses, illegal immigration, lack of affordable education, lack of affordable healthcare, unemployment, crime, mass shootings, welfare, wars with other countries, total national debt increasing, terrorism, the US dollar decreasing in value and I'm sure I missed some. So with all these issues America is experiencing, which type of government or political party do you think has the best chance getting America back on track? Or should America take on a whole different type of government?

A Nation Based on Birth and Not Worth Will Suffer Crib Death

Abolition of all hereditary rights. The whole specious spectrum is toxic waste from the prep schools. Those will no longer exist, so neither will the self-serving political alternatives the guillotine-fodder aristocracy offers us. Paid education will pay for itself many times over; it can all be covered initially by confiscating inheritance. What is left behind must be given to the naturally talented, not to the heirs, or our country will continue to be left behind.

What?

He must of just read that somewhere and quoted it. I bet you cant explain what that means in his own words.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The "free market" is nothing but anarchy, where the predators soon achieve absolute tyranny. Money-obsessed zombies should have no power over us.

, go play with your crayons..

Class-Climbers Are Mamas' Boys Obsessively Looking for a Father Figure

Go bootlick your way to success, you pathetic buttboy for the bosses. Those you worship love you only for your retarded weakling slavishness; they desperately fear real men. But they will eventually pay for rewarding brownnosing over brains.