What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Redfish]

We know what it stands for--Independence. This is obvious by the tablet the statue is holding marking the day we adopted the Declaration of Independence. The poor the weary stuff was added later on, but that's not why it was built:

What is the quote on the statue of liberty?

There are several phrases associated with the Statue of Liberty, but the most recognizable is “Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.” This quote comes from Emma Lazarus’ sonnet, New Colossus, which she wrote for a fundraiser auction to raise money for the pedestal upon which the Statue of Liberty now sits. The poem did not receive much recognition and was quite forgotten after the auction.

In the early 1900s and after Lazarus’ death, one of her friends began a campaign to memorialize Lazarus and her New Colossus sonnet. The effort was a success, and a plaque with the poem’s text was mounted inside the pedestal of the statute.

What is the quote on the statue of liberty? · How Tall is the Statue of Liberty?

And this apparently cannot be said enough:

It's just a poem. Has no force of law whatsoever.

Actually the point was the statue was not erected to welcome foreigners. It was put there so that when foreigners come, they are reminded of the value of liberty--not put there as a Welcome Mat.

The statue was a gift from France with the sole intention of celebrating freedom. The liberals like to use the poem to say that the statue was put here to welcome any and all foreigners into the country. It's just a wives tale is all it is.

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

That sounds like a welcome mat to me.

Which again, was added after the statue was up for several years by somebody that had little to do with the statue other than create the pedestal. It was not the reason for the statue of liberty. The theme behind the statue was to celebrate Independence--not immigration. Immigration had nothing to do with it.

I agree. Immigration was not an issue. Except for the Chinese, our borders were open to all nationalities. The Statue of Liberty was not conceived and sculpted as a symbol of immigration, but it quickly became so as immigrant ships passed under the torch, heading toward Ellis Island.

Maybe we should change the inscription because America certainly doesn't welcome your tired, poor, homeless, and huddled masses. In fact, that is exactly who we're trying to keep out. Who we really want in America is White English speaking well educated upper class immigrants, who have never known adversity and who will raise over-privileged white children to follow in their footsteps.

the people who came through Ellis Island came legally, that's the difference, dude. I don't understand why you don't get this.

 

[Redfish]

I don't know why. Even with the wall, we will continue as always to allow "some" people to come in. We will allow nearly a million new people a year to become citizens of this great country. All the wall will do is keep people out who are not supposed to be here.

I thought your position was to stop immigration both legal and illegal. When I said, "building a wall around the country", I was speaking figuratively and referring to isolationism.

Oh, without a doubt that is my position, but the wall was not in support of what I think, it was in support to curb illegal crossings.

There is no possible way that even Republicans would vote to stop all immigration, but I will support any measure that gets us closer to my desire.

Maybe we should discuss legal immigration because we both agree illegal immigration needs to stop. We just don't agree on the means.

What's to discuss? We have legal immigration and have had it for decades. There is nothing wrong with our immigration system outside of not enforcing it.

I think we are in total disagreement in the need for legal immigrants. You would see the numbers decreased and I want to see them increased. You believe they take jobs from Americans and I believe they create them. You think the immigration system is just fine the way it is. I think it should be totally overhauled because it focuses almost entirely on keeping undesirable elements out and ignores encouraging those that are desirable.

should there be no limits on legal immigration? Do you know that all immigration was stopped in the 1920s in order to allow time for recent immigrants (legal) to assimilate and become americans?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Reagan, Bush and Trump used that money to cover other expenses to they could give tax breaks to billionaires... I'm sorry we have to keep explaining this to you.

Who is WE Willis?

Well now you're going to have to explain it differently next time: From Politifact:

Our ruling

A Facebook posts says, "Bush ‘borrowed’ $1.37 trillion of Social Security surplus revenue to pay for his tax cuts for the rich and his war in Iraq and never paid it back."

By law, the Social Security surplus is converted into bonds, and the cash is used by the Treasury to pay for government expenses. If we agree that this is "borrowing," every president since 1935 has done it, to fund all sorts of things. Even if Bush "borrowed" from the surplus, the amount is more like $708 billion, and the borrowing wasn’t earmarked for a special purposes.

As for not "paying back," the bonds won’t need to be repaid until 2020.

Overall, the claim is misleading and confuses many points. So we rate it Mostly False.

Did George W. Bush 'borrow' from Social Security to fund the war in Iraq and tax cuts?

That's simply not true.

In fact, the top one percent has 43% of the wealth in this country. That's more than enough to fund the government for years. If we distributed GDP evenly, every man woman and child would have $50,000 each. Even the illegals.

And, no, thinking that we should distribute the wealth more evenly isn't socialism, it's just common sense. Third world countries are the ones with super rich and lots of poor. A real advanced nation has a middle class.

Pretty soon you're going to have to start paying me for your education Joe

But it’s a fantasy to imagine that raising taxes on the rich will solve our deficit problem. If the IRS grabbed 100 percent of income over $1 million, the take would be just $616 billion. That’s only a third of this year’s deficit. Our national debt would continue to explode.

It’s the spending, stupid.

John Stossel: Tax The Rich? The Rich Don't Have Enough. Really.

Kissing ass? You mean not treating them like the enemy because of where their parents or grandparents were born? What a crazy concept! Nope, nope, we should keep demonizing them to pander to fucked up racists like you, even though your sort is THANKFULLY dying off (although not nearly fast enough).

Yes Joe, we are dying off. Anything else your puppet masters have told you recently?

In 30 years, we are going to look back at racist fucks like you the way we look back at Jim Crow or the Klan and wonder what people were thinking.

And that's what the Democrats were saying 30 years ago. Don't you know when you are being brainwashed?

 

[danielpalos]

And this apparently cannot be said enough:

It's just a poem. Has no force of law whatsoever.

Actually the point was the statue was not erected to welcome foreigners. It was put there so that when foreigners come, they are reminded of the value of liberty--not put there as a Welcome Mat.

The statue was a gift from France with the sole intention of celebrating freedom. The liberals like to use the poem to say that the statue was put here to welcome any and all foreigners into the country. It's just a wives tale is all it is.

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

That sounds like a welcome mat to me.

Which again, was added after the statue was up for several years by somebody that had little to do with the statue other than create the pedestal. It was not the reason for the statue of liberty. The theme behind the statue was to celebrate Independence--not immigration. Immigration had nothing to do with it.

I agree. Immigration was not an issue. Except for the Chinese, our borders were open to all nationalities. The Statue of Liberty was not conceived and sculpted as a symbol of immigration, but it quickly became so as immigrant ships passed under the torch, heading toward Ellis Island.

Maybe we should change the inscription because America certainly doesn't welcome your tired, poor, homeless, and huddled masses. In fact, that is exactly who we're trying to keep out. Who we really want in America is White English speaking well educated upper class immigrants, who have never known adversity and who will raise over-privileged white children to follow in their footsteps.

the people who came through Ellis Island came legally, that's the difference, dude. I don't understand why you don't get this.

how many people come through Ellis Island, now?

 

[danielpalos]

I thought your position was to stop immigration both legal and illegal. When I said, "building a wall around the country", I was speaking figuratively and referring to isolationism.

Oh, without a doubt that is my position, but the wall was not in support of what I think, it was in support to curb illegal crossings.

There is no possible way that even Republicans would vote to stop all immigration, but I will support any measure that gets us closer to my desire.

Maybe we should discuss legal immigration because we both agree illegal immigration needs to stop. We just don't agree on the means.

What's to discuss? We have legal immigration and have had it for decades. There is nothing wrong with our immigration system outside of not enforcing it.

I think we are in total disagreement in the need for legal immigrants. You would see the numbers decreased and I want to see them increased. You believe they take jobs from Americans and I believe they create them. You think the immigration system is just fine the way it is. I think it should be totally overhauled because it focuses almost entirely on keeping undesirable elements out and ignores encouraging those that are desirable.

should there be no limits on legal immigration? Do you know that all immigration was stopped in the 1920s in order to allow time for recent immigrants (legal) to assimilate and become americans?

We are creating refugees with our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror; that, the right wing refuses to pay wartime tax rates for. How, fiscally irresponsible is that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well Joe, I'm a person that believes in God, or Karma for your believers that think we are advanced monkeys. When you criticize people because of their health conditions, it's likely (and hopefully) it will come back to you. So I truly hope you get an illness that affects your ability to work and make money. It's only deserving of your kind.

I've had that... and frankly, was screwed over by my employer and insurance company because of it.

But funny thing happened, what i learned from that experience is that your health shouldn't be contingent on someone else's ability to make money off your labor.....

I had no problem getting a new job that provided health insurance..

You on the other hand, take it up the ass from the one percent, and want to kick down at people who have less than you do. True, a lot of it is your own damned fault for not gaining any additional skills and being very limited in one thing that any young kid out of high school could learn how to do. And true that you won't even make a base effort to improve your situation.

Because you are just an awful person.... so maybe the misery you have is Karmic.

I, on the other hand, had devoted myself to helping people. I will be spending most of today helping four people find new jobs. Yes, I'll get paid for my troubles, but I also do it because it's a decent thing to do.

Sure you do. That's why you have the same schedule here on USMB that you had over a year ago---because you work from home. You are here early mornings, and then gone all day until after most working people get home. Weekends are different like most working people here.

My fault? It's my fault people were dumb enough to vote in some clown with a name like a terrorist for President? My fault we have so many stupid people to think that government is the solution to our healthcare problems? My fault that when I chose a career, I didn't predict some big eared potato head would F-up the system we had in place most of our lives?

Yeah Joe, it's my fault, because it's like I've always said, the best part of being a Democrat is never having to say you were wrong.

 

[danielpalos]

Reagan, Bush and Trump used that money to cover other expenses to they could give tax breaks to billionaires... I'm sorry we have to keep explaining this to you.

Who is WE Willis?

Well now you're going to have to explain it differently next time: From Politifact:

Our ruling

A Facebook posts says, "Bush ‘borrowed’ $1.37 trillion of Social Security surplus revenue to pay for his tax cuts for the rich and his war in Iraq and never paid it back."

By law, the Social Security surplus is converted into bonds, and the cash is used by the Treasury to pay for government expenses. If we agree that this is "borrowing," every president since 1935 has done it, to fund all sorts of things. Even if Bush "borrowed" from the surplus, the amount is more like $708 billion, and the borrowing wasn’t earmarked for a special purposes.

As for not "paying back," the bonds won’t need to be repaid until 2020.

Overall, the claim is misleading and confuses many points. So we rate it Mostly False.

Did George W. Bush 'borrow' from Social Security to fund the war in Iraq and tax cuts?

That's simply not true.

In fact, the top one percent has 43% of the wealth in this country. That's more than enough to fund the government for years. If we distributed GDP evenly, every man woman and child would have $50,000 each. Even the illegals.

And, no, thinking that we should distribute the wealth more evenly isn't socialism, it's just common sense. Third world countries are the ones with super rich and lots of poor. A real advanced nation has a middle class.

Pretty soon you're going to have to start paying me for your education Joe

But it’s a fantasy to imagine that raising taxes on the rich will solve our deficit problem. If the IRS grabbed 100 percent of income over $1 million, the take would be just $616 billion. That’s only a third of this year’s deficit. Our national debt would continue to explode.

It’s the spending, stupid.

John Stossel: Tax The Rich? The Rich Don't Have Enough. Really.

Kissing ass? You mean not treating them like the enemy because of where their parents or grandparents were born? What a crazy concept! Nope, nope, we should keep demonizing them to pander to fucked up racists like you, even though your sort is THANKFULLY dying off (although not nearly fast enough).

Yes Joe, we are dying off. Anything else your puppet masters have told you recently?

In 30 years, we are going to look back at racist fucks like you the way we look back at Jim Crow or the Klan and wonder what people were thinking.

And that's what the Democrats were saying 30 years ago. Don't you know when you are being brainwashed?

$1.37 trillion

Why did the right wing ask for a tax cut if we were, "going to war"?

 

[JoeB131]

But it’s a fantasy to imagine that raising taxes on the rich will solve our deficit problem. If the IRS grabbed 100 percent of income over $1 million, the take would be just $616 billion. That’s only a third of this year’s deficit. Our national debt would continue to explode.

It’s the spending, stupid.

First, John Stossell had no credibility. But it was funny to watch him get bitched slapped by a wrestler.



To the point, though... I wasn't talking about income, I was talking about WEALTH. If we had proper capital gains taxes, proper corporate taxes, proper estate taxes, we'd have plenty of ways to separate the One Percenters from their ill-gotten gains. And we'd fund the government just fine.

Sure you do. That's why you have the same schedule here on USMB that you had over a year ago---because you work from home. You are here early mornings, and then gone all day until after most working people get home. Weekends are different like most working people here.

Um, yeah, during the day I'm working. I'm often working on weekends and evenings, too. Sorry you don't get this... You on the other hand, seem to be here all day, whining about lazy minorities... funny how that works.

My fault? It's my fault people were dumb enough to vote in some clown with a name like a terrorist for President? My fault we have so many stupid people to think that government is the solution to our healthcare problems? My fault that when I chose a career, I didn't predict some big eared potato head would F-up the system we had in place most of our lives?

Again, what we got was what Republicans wanted. We wanted single Payer, which would have been the best thing for you. Heck, HillaryCare would have been good for you. Your boss would pay into a fund if he didn't provide insurance and you'd qualify.

But the reason why it's your fault is because you picked a career anyone could do. I'm effectively on my third career, because I adapt to changes. Couldn't do what I did when I was in my 20s, I realize that. So I gained skills so I could do other things. Amazing.

Yeah Joe, it's my fault, because it's like I've always said, the best part of being a Democrat is never having to say you were wrong.

Naw, man, wrong is hating on people who have less than you do so you can feel better about your own failures.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

First, John Stossell had no credibility. But it was funny to watch him get bitched slapped by a wrestler.

Oh, a wrestler? That settles it, a guy with his own television show has no credibility because of a wrestler. LOL!

Well, when you can provide evidence that he is wrong, then you'll have some credibility criticizing him.

To the point, though... I wasn't talking about income, I was talking about WEALTH. If we had proper capital gains taxes, proper corporate taxes, proper estate taxes, we'd have plenty of ways to separate the One Percenters from their ill-gotten gains. And we'd fund the government just fine.

I just posted evidence of how wrong you are. Wealth is income, a lot of income. And if you took every dollar away from the wealthy, WTF would they be able to pay taxes on? They'd be broke.

Um, yeah, during the day I'm working. I'm often working on weekends and evenings, too. Sorry you don't get this... You on the other hand, seem to be here all day, whining about lazy minorities... funny how that works.

I'm sure you're working all day, FOR SOMEBODY ELSE!

Again, what we got was what Republicans wanted. We wanted single Payer, which would have been the best thing for you. Heck, HillaryCare would have been good for you. Your boss would pay into a fund if he didn't provide insurance and you'd qualify.

But the reason why it's your fault is because you picked a career anyone could do. I'm effectively on my third career, because I adapt to changes. Couldn't do what I did when I was in my 20s, I realize that. So I gained skills so I could do other things. Amazing.

No, do you know what would have been the best thing for me? For communists to STF our of my life. For that big eared clown to never be elected SO I WOULD have insurance today. That's what would be the best for me. You people are so brainwashed you refuse to look at facts: facts like not one Republican voted for Commie Care. They tried to water it down as much as possible with the little power they had. But your puppet masters told you to blame Republicans because it was a total failure and you need to blame somebody for Democrat failures.

Naw, man, wrong is hating on people who have less than you do so you can feel better about your own failures.

I don't hate people that have less than me, I hate people that try a lot less than me. Big difference. In contrast to you, you hate people that tried harder and became way more successful than you.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

It's pretty obvious that we don't have the solutions to those problems. The same people doing the same thing over and over is not going to solve anything. Maybe instead of looking inward for solutions we should be looking outward. Being that this country was build by immigrants and their offspring, building a wall around the country with a keep out sign might be a very bad idea.

The Major Flaw in your thinking and those who think like you is that the world is the same as it was 200 years ago.
It is not. Too many people coming here now are sent by their governments to over-run America (Mexico and other SA countries) while many come here on missions of disruption and hatred such as Jihad and MS-13.

Your thinking is naive and foolish in the context of today's immigration.

 

[JoeB131]

I just posted evidence of how wrong you are. Wealth is income, a lot of income. And if you took every dollar away from the wealthy, WTF would they be able to pay taxes on? They'd be broke.

Except the wealthy have a lot more than 616 BIllion... sorry.

here you go, a list of the 20 wealthiest Americans.. Add up just these 20 guys, you get more than 732Billion...

I just posted evidence of how wrong you are. Wealth is income, a lot of income. And if you took every dollar away from the wealthy, WTF would they be able to pay taxes on? They'd be broke.

wrong- see above chart.

I'm sure you're working all day, FOR SOMEBODY ELSE!

Well, you'd be wrong, as usual...

o, do you know what would have been the best thing for me? For communists to STF our of my life. For that big eared clown to never be elected SO I WOULD have insurance today.

Your boss would have fucked you regardless...

You people are so brainwashed you refuse to look at facts: facts like not one Republican voted for Commie Care. They tried to water it down as much as possible with the little power they had. But your puppet masters told you to blame Republicans because it was a total failure and you need to blame somebody for Democrat failures.

Naw, I knew it was going to be a problem because the Dems listened to the GOP and went along with what Big Insurance wanted. You see, in trying to get Susan Collins to go along with it, they gave up on the Public Option and Medicare Buy in, which would have solved 99% of the problems with ACA. But the real problem is that we have a health insurance industry that pays its CEO's 9 figure incomes to figure out how to cheat people after they've paid the premiums... that's the real problem.

I don't hate people that have less than me, I hate people that try a lot less than me. Big difference. In contrast to you, you hate people that tried harder and became way more successful than you.

Naw, I hate people who got rich ripping off people like you who did the actual work. But you'll sit there in your slum without your insurance and complain about the guy who decided that they weren't going to work for an extra $10 a week and give up $100 in benefits.

 

[Flopper]

And this apparently cannot be said enough:

It's just a poem. Has no force of law whatsoever.

Actually the point was the statue was not erected to welcome foreigners. It was put there so that when foreigners come, they are reminded of the value of liberty--not put there as a Welcome Mat.

The statue was a gift from France with the sole intention of celebrating freedom. The liberals like to use the poem to say that the statue was put here to welcome any and all foreigners into the country. It's just a wives tale is all it is.

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

That sounds like a welcome mat to me.

Which again, was added after the statue was up for several years by somebody that had little to do with the statue other than create the pedestal. It was not the reason for the statue of liberty. The theme behind the statue was to celebrate Independence--not immigration. Immigration had nothing to do with it.

I agree. Immigration was not an issue. Except for the Chinese, our borders were open to all nationalities. The Statue of Liberty was not conceived and sculpted as a symbol of immigration, but it quickly became so as immigrant ships passed under the torch, heading toward Ellis Island.

Maybe we should change the inscription because America certainly doesn't welcome your tired, poor, homeless, and huddled masses. In fact, that is exactly who we're trying to keep out. Who we really want in America is White English speaking well educated upper class immigrants, who have never known adversity and who will raise over-privileged white children to follow in their footsteps.

the people who came through Ellis Island came legally, that's the difference, dude. I don't understand why you don't get this.

Apparently, you reply before even reading the post. I think I understand probably better than most people on this thread the differences between illegal and legal immigrants. Our entire immigration systems has serious problems starting with who and how we select immigrants to how we keep undocumented immigrants out of the country.

 

[danielpalos]

Actually the point was the statue was not erected to welcome foreigners. It was put there so that when foreigners come, they are reminded of the value of liberty--not put there as a Welcome Mat.

The statue was a gift from France with the sole intention of celebrating freedom. The liberals like to use the poem to say that the statue was put here to welcome any and all foreigners into the country. It's just a wives tale is all it is.

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

That sounds like a welcome mat to me.

Which again, was added after the statue was up for several years by somebody that had little to do with the statue other than create the pedestal. It was not the reason for the statue of liberty. The theme behind the statue was to celebrate Independence--not immigration. Immigration had nothing to do with it.

I agree. Immigration was not an issue. Except for the Chinese, our borders were open to all nationalities. The Statue of Liberty was not conceived and sculpted as a symbol of immigration, but it quickly became so as immigrant ships passed under the torch, heading toward Ellis Island.

Maybe we should change the inscription because America certainly doesn't welcome your tired, poor, homeless, and huddled masses. In fact, that is exactly who we're trying to keep out. Who we really want in America is White English speaking well educated upper class immigrants, who have never known adversity and who will raise over-privileged white children to follow in their footsteps.

the people who came through Ellis Island came legally, that's the difference, dude. I don't understand why you don't get this.

Apparently, you reply before even reading the post. I think I understand probably better than most people on this thread the differences between illegal and legal immigrants. Our entire immigration systems has serious problems starting with who and how we select immigrants to how we keep undocumented immigrants out of the country.

all foreign nationals in the US should have a federal id. it is a federal Obligation since 1808.

 

[WEATHER53]

And this apparently cannot be said enough:

It's just a poem. Has no force of law whatsoever.

Actually the point was the statue was not erected to welcome foreigners. It was put there so that when foreigners come, they are reminded of the value of liberty--not put there as a Welcome Mat.

The statue was a gift from France with the sole intention of celebrating freedom. The liberals like to use the poem to say that the statue was put here to welcome any and all foreigners into the country. It's just a wives tale is all it is.

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

That sounds like a welcome mat to me.

Which again, was added after the statue was up for several years by somebody that had little to do with the statue other than create the pedestal. It was not the reason for the statue of liberty. The theme behind the statue was to celebrate Independence--not immigration. Immigration had nothing to do with it.

I agree. Immigration was not an issue. Except for the Chinese, our borders were open to all nationalities. The Statue of Liberty was not conceived and sculpted as a symbol of immigration, but it quickly became so as immigrant ships passed under the torch, heading toward Ellis Island.

Maybe we should change the inscription because America certainly doesn't welcome your tired, poor, homeless, and huddled masses. In fact, that is exactly who we're trying to keep out. Who we really want in America is White English speaking well educated upper class immigrants, who have never known adversity and who will raise over-privileged white children to follow in their footsteps.

the people who came through Ellis Island came legally, that's the difference, dude. I don't understand why you don't get this.

Laws do not matter to liberals. They consider them discriminatory (because minorities disproportionately cannot follow them) and oppressive (because they are compatible with responsibility and good conduct). Immigration is but one target

 

[danielpalos]

Actually the point was the statue was not erected to welcome foreigners. It was put there so that when foreigners come, they are reminded of the value of liberty--not put there as a Welcome Mat.

The statue was a gift from France with the sole intention of celebrating freedom. The liberals like to use the poem to say that the statue was put here to welcome any and all foreigners into the country. It's just a wives tale is all it is.

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

That sounds like a welcome mat to me.

Which again, was added after the statue was up for several years by somebody that had little to do with the statue other than create the pedestal. It was not the reason for the statue of liberty. The theme behind the statue was to celebrate Independence--not immigration. Immigration had nothing to do with it.

I agree. Immigration was not an issue. Except for the Chinese, our borders were open to all nationalities. The Statue of Liberty was not conceived and sculpted as a symbol of immigration, but it quickly became so as immigrant ships passed under the torch, heading toward Ellis Island.

Maybe we should change the inscription because America certainly doesn't welcome your tired, poor, homeless, and huddled masses. In fact, that is exactly who we're trying to keep out. Who we really want in America is White English speaking well educated upper class immigrants, who have never known adversity and who will raise over-privileged white children to follow in their footsteps.

the people who came through Ellis Island came legally, that's the difference, dude. I don't understand why you don't get this.

Laws do no matter to liberals. They consider them discriminatory (because minorities disproportionately cannot follow them) and oppressive (because they are compatible with responsibility and good conduct). Immigration is but one target

they matter even less to the right wing. they like to make it up while they go along while in the majority.

 

[WEATHER53]

^^^^ Claims to care about children.........
.
.
.
Fights to import MS-13 members who kill AMERICAN CHILDREN....

Again, American children are more likely to be killed by family members than MS-13. Most of the people killed by MS-13 are rival gang members. I'll be in mourning for 15 seconds.

^^^^^ Makes a totally asinine completely false statement that open borders is harmless......
(Acting as if all immigration is legal immigration (stupid nonsense))
..
.
Then immediately resorts to personal insults because he realizes his own shit actually does stink. (So typical of imbeciles serving up nothing burgers 24/7)

Naw, just pointing out that when a racist POS like Ray kicks down, he's admitting the own failure of his life.

Children are also more likely to be killed by a family member than by playing in the street but we don’t ignore them playing there nor encourage it as a good idea

 

[Contumacious]

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

That sounds like a welcome mat to me.

Which again, was added after the statue was up for several years by somebody that had little to do with the statue other than create the pedestal. It was not the reason for the statue of liberty. The theme behind the statue was to celebrate Independence--not immigration. Immigration had nothing to do with it.

I agree. Immigration was not an issue. Except for the Chinese, our borders were open to all nationalities. The Statue of Liberty was not conceived and sculpted as a symbol of immigration, but it quickly became so as immigrant ships passed under the torch, heading toward Ellis Island.

Maybe we should change the inscription because America certainly doesn't welcome your tired, poor, homeless, and huddled masses. In fact, that is exactly who we're trying to keep out. Who we really want in America is White English speaking well educated upper class immigrants, who have never known adversity and who will raise over-privileged white children to follow in their footsteps.

the people who came through Ellis Island came legally, that's the difference, dude. I don't understand why you don't get this.

Apparently, you reply before even reading the post. I think I understand probably better than most people on this thread the differences between illegal and legal immigrants. Our entire immigration systems has serious problems starting with who and how we select immigrants to how we keep undocumented immigrants out of the country.

all foreign nationals in the US should have a federal id. it is a federal Obligation since 1808.

HUH?

LINK?

.

 

[danielpalos]

Which again, was added after the statue was up for several years by somebody that had little to do with the statue other than create the pedestal. It was not the reason for the statue of liberty. The theme behind the statue was to celebrate Independence--not immigration. Immigration had nothing to do with it.

I agree. Immigration was not an issue. Except for the Chinese, our borders were open to all nationalities. The Statue of Liberty was not conceived and sculpted as a symbol of immigration, but it quickly became so as immigrant ships passed under the torch, heading toward Ellis Island.

Maybe we should change the inscription because America certainly doesn't welcome your tired, poor, homeless, and huddled masses. In fact, that is exactly who we're trying to keep out. Who we really want in America is White English speaking well educated upper class immigrants, who have never known adversity and who will raise over-privileged white children to follow in their footsteps.

the people who came through Ellis Island came legally, that's the difference, dude. I don't understand why you don't get this.

Apparently, you reply before even reading the post. I think I understand probably better than most people on this thread the differences between illegal and legal immigrants. Our entire immigration systems has serious problems starting with who and how we select immigrants to how we keep undocumented immigrants out of the country.

all foreign nationals in the US should have a federal id. it is a federal Obligation since 1808.

HUH?

LINK?

.

Our federal Constitution, ever read it? Entry into the Union is a federal Obligation after 1808.

 

[Contumacious]

I agree. Immigration was not an issue. Except for the Chinese, our borders were open to all nationalities. The Statue of Liberty was not conceived and sculpted as a symbol of immigration, but it quickly became so as immigrant ships passed under the torch, heading toward Ellis Island.

Maybe we should change the inscription because America certainly doesn't welcome your tired, poor, homeless, and huddled masses. In fact, that is exactly who we're trying to keep out. Who we really want in America is White English speaking well educated upper class immigrants, who have never known adversity and who will raise over-privileged white children to follow in their footsteps.

the people who came through Ellis Island came legally, that's the difference, dude. I don't understand why you don't get this.

Apparently, you reply before even reading the post. I think I understand probably better than most people on this thread the differences between illegal and legal immigrants. Our entire immigration systems has serious problems starting with who and how we select immigrants to how we keep undocumented immigrants out of the country.

all foreign nationals in the US should have a federal id. it is a federal Obligation since 1808.

HUH?

LINK?

.

Our federal Constitution, ever read it? Entry into the Union is a federal Obligation after 1808.

Shut the fuck up.

Our federal Constitution, ever read it?


The states RETAINED the authority to regulate immigration.

Fedgov has authority to NATURALIZE those individuals who seek to become US Citizens.


.

 

[Flopper]

It's pretty obvious that we don't have the solutions to those problems. The same people doing the same thing over and over is not going to solve anything. Maybe instead of looking inward for solutions we should be looking outward. Being that this country was build by immigrants and their offspring, building a wall around the country with a keep out sign might be a very bad idea.

The Major Flaw in your thinking and those who think like you is that the world is the same as it was 200 years ago.
It is not. Too many people coming here now are sent by their governments to over-run America (Mexico and other SA countries) while many come here on missions of disruption and hatred such as Jihad and MS-13.

Your thinking is naive and foolish in the context of today's immigration.

The Mexican government does not send immigrants to the US. That rather silly idea goes back about 50 years.

Why in the world would the Mexican government want to send workers to the US when they are experiencing a shortage of both farm and skilled labor? Mexican daily wages have risen almost 60% over the last 10 years. The unemployment rate in Mexico is now 3.2% compared to the US unemployment rate of 4%. This goes a long way in explaining why more Mexican immigrants are returning home than arriving in the United States. Illegal immigration across our southern boarder was recently at a 20 year low and is predicted to continue falling over the next 10 years.

The long term outlook in the labor market both in the US and Mexico is a rising shortage of workers, particular in agriculture. The shortage in the US is predicted to reach 34 million by 2024.

The Mara Salvatrucha gang (MS-13) was started in Los Angeles in the 1980's by Salvadoran immigrants fleeing the Central American Civil wars. It is estimated that there are 8,000 to 10,000 members in the US, a tiny fraction of the number of legal and illegal immigrants, and naturalized Americans from Mexico and Central America, estimated to be over 40 million.

It's interesting to note that MS-13 grew out the refuges of the civil wars in Central American in which the US government actively promoted by pumping billions of dollars in military aid in order stop communist revolutionaries. Now, 35 years later we are dealing with the consequences.
Mexico Average Daily Wages | 2000-2018 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast
Illegal Immigration Statistics - FactCheck.org
MS-13 - Wikipedia
Central American crisis - Wikipedia