What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Ray From Cleveland]

My immigration reform: Caught here illegally, you face a minimum five years in prison before deportation.

We don't have enough prison space for the real criminals, much less a misdemeanor.

Right now, we lock up 2 million people.

There are currently 11 million undocumented immigrants here. You are really going to lock them all up for 5 years?

You also have the problem is that their home countries are in no hurry to take them back.

Yeah gee, I wonder why?

You wouldn't need to build 11 million prison cells because most all of them would pack their things and get the hell out of the country. A good enough deterrent works every time it's tried. Don't you remember what happened in Arizona when they instituted their own immigration policies that Ears stopped? Most of them got out of Dodge.

We keep treating these illegals like guests--especially in Democrat controlled areas, and then wonder how we ended up with 11 million of them.

 

[WEATHER53]

11 million st approx $1,000 a day everyday to either care for medically, house, feed or incarcerate. I am
niw taking deductions as they are dependents

 

[Flopper]

I agree. Immigration was not an issue. Except for the Chinese, our borders were open to all nationalities. The Statue of Liberty was not conceived and sculpted as a symbol of immigration, but it quickly became so as immigrant ships passed under the torch, heading toward Ellis Island.

Maybe we should change the inscription because America certainly doesn't welcome your tired, poor, homeless, and huddled masses. In fact, that is exactly who we're trying to keep out. Who we really want in America is White English speaking well educated upper class immigrants, who have never known adversity and who will raise over-privileged white children to follow in their footsteps.

the people who came through Ellis Island came legally, that's the difference, dude. I don't understand why you don't get this.

Apparently, you reply before even reading the post. I think I understand probably better than most people on this thread the differences between illegal and legal immigrants. Our entire immigration systems has serious problems starting with who and how we select immigrants to how we keep undocumented immigrants out of the country.

I read your post and understand exactly what you said. No one, including me, has ever said that only white, educated, English speaking people should be allowed to immigrate here. All we are saying is come legally, and if you come in illegally you will be deported back to where you came from or stopped at the border. What do you find objectionable about that?

Nothing except the quotas should be reasonable. It shouldn't take a 50 to a 100 years for a computer engineer from India to get a work permit. Neither should it be impossible for a Honduran family of agricultural workers to immigrate. The decision to allow a person to immigrate should be based on their education, skills and character, not there country of origin.

There's a computer engineer in my condo with an H2b visa, a graduate of Stanford and CalTech that needs a work permit so he can leave his current employer and start a new company in the US. He was told by immigration that there are 225,000 workers from India trying to get a work permit so the wait would be in excess of 50 years. If he were born in Thailand, the wait would be about 1 year. That's crazy. I'm all for enforcing immigration laws but those laws need to fair and in the best interest of the country.

Then why doesn't he go to Thailand?

Would you immigrate to Thailand and give up your US citizenship to work in another country. It think not.

What he will probably do is return to India and setup his company there since his backers have agreed to fund him wherever he decides to go. I just hate to see our nation lose someone that talented.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

the people who came through Ellis Island came legally, that's the difference, dude. I don't understand why you don't get this.

Apparently, you reply before even reading the post. I think I understand probably better than most people on this thread the differences between illegal and legal immigrants. Our entire immigration systems has serious problems starting with who and how we select immigrants to how we keep undocumented immigrants out of the country.

I read your post and understand exactly what you said. No one, including me, has ever said that only white, educated, English speaking people should be allowed to immigrate here. All we are saying is come legally, and if you come in illegally you will be deported back to where you came from or stopped at the border. What do you find objectionable about that?

Nothing except the quotas should be reasonable. It shouldn't take a 50 to a 100 years for a computer engineer from India to get a work permit. Neither should it be impossible for a Honduran family of agricultural workers to immigrate. The decision to allow a person to immigrate should be based on their education, skills and character, not there country of origin.

There's a computer engineer in my condo with an H2b visa, a graduate of Stanford and CalTech that needs a work permit so he can leave his current employer and start a new company in the US. He was told by immigration that there are 225,000 workers from India trying to get a work permit so the wait would be in excess of 50 years. If he were born in Thailand, the wait would be about 1 year. That's crazy. I'm all for enforcing immigration laws but those laws need to fair and in the best interest of the country.

Then why doesn't he go to Thailand?

Would you immigrate to Thailand and give up your US citizenship to work in another country. It think not.

What he will probably do is return to India and setup his company there since his backers have agreed to fund him wherever he decides to go. I just hate to see our nation lose someone that talented.

And I hate to lose a nation because we are inviting so many immigrants here who are changing our language, culture and politics.

Sorry, but I don't want to see us as a single-party government forever because we fell into this Democrat trap. Once they get unrestricted power, the great experiment will be over, and our success will only be known to our children in history books.

 

[Flopper]

Apparently, you reply before even reading the post. I think I understand probably better than most people on this thread the differences between illegal and legal immigrants. Our entire immigration systems has serious problems starting with who and how we select immigrants to how we keep undocumented immigrants out of the country.

I read your post and understand exactly what you said. No one, including me, has ever said that only white, educated, English speaking people should be allowed to immigrate here. All we are saying is come legally, and if you come in illegally you will be deported back to where you came from or stopped at the border. What do you find objectionable about that?

Nothing except the quotas should be reasonable. It shouldn't take a 50 to a 100 years for a computer engineer from India to get a work permit. Neither should it be impossible for a Honduran family of agricultural workers to immigrate. The decision to allow a person to immigrate should be based on their education, skills and character, not there country of origin.

There's a computer engineer in my condo with an H2b visa, a graduate of Stanford and CalTech that needs a work permit so he can leave his current employer and start a new company in the US. He was told by immigration that there are 225,000 workers from India trying to get a work permit so the wait would be in excess of 50 years. If he were born in Thailand, the wait would be about 1 year. That's crazy. I'm all for enforcing immigration laws but those laws need to fair and in the best interest of the country.

Then why doesn't he go to Thailand?

Would you immigrate to Thailand and give up your US citizenship to work in another country. It think not.

What he will probably do is return to India and setup his company there since his backers have agreed to fund him wherever he decides to go. I just hate to see our nation lose someone that talented.

And I hate to lose a nation because we are inviting so many immigrants here who are changing our language, culture and politics.

Sorry, but I don't want to see us as a single-party government forever because we fell into this Democrat trap. Once they get unrestricted power, the great experiment will be over, and our success will only be known to our children in history books.

600,000 new immigrants (about .18% of the population) each year becoming citizens is not a lot and they're not getting control of the government. Only 20% of naturalized Americans are coming from Latin America.

You lost the nation long ago to immigrants because most all of us are immigrants, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation.

 

[JoeB131]

And I hate to lose a nation because we are inviting so many immigrants here who are changing our language, culture and politics.

Okay, let's look at that.

Hey, ever notice that we celebrate Octoberfest and St. Paddy's Day? Why those damned immigrants, changing our culture! The Founding Fathers didn't celebrate those things!

Sorry, but I don't want to see us as a single-party government forever because we fell into this Democrat trap. Once they get unrestricted power, the great experiment will be over, and our success will only be known to our children in history books.

And our children will look back at bigots like you the way we look back at George Wallace blocking the door to the school. "What were those people thinking?" right before they go on a date with their Hispanic girlfriend.

If we do become a single party government, it will be because the Republican Party decided to double and triple down in becoming a White Nationalist party when even most whites aren't terribly comfortable with that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Okay, let's look at that.

Hey, ever notice that we celebrate Octoberfest and St. Paddy's Day? Why those damned immigrants, changing our culture! The Founding Fathers didn't celebrate those things!

No, not everybody celebrates those days, and they are one day events--not changing the entire country. Nice try though.

And our children will look back at bigots like you the way we look back at George Wallace blocking the door to the school. "What were those people thinking?" right before they go on a date with their Hispanic girlfriend.

If we do become a single party government, it will be because the Republican Party decided to double and triple down in becoming a White Nationalist party when even most whites aren't terribly comfortable with that.

No, once Democrats have power and convert us to Socialism/ Communism, it will be the fault of surrender first whites like you who offered this country for political sacrifice. Then we will be just like all the other shitholes across the world like North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, and all of the countries directly south of our border. And if the liberals don't destroy history like they are trying to do today like tearing down statues, our children will read about what a great country this once was and ask why did we let it slip through our fingers? Why didn't we do something to preserve it like the many generations before us.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I read your post and understand exactly what you said. No one, including me, has ever said that only white, educated, English speaking people should be allowed to immigrate here. All we are saying is come legally, and if you come in illegally you will be deported back to where you came from or stopped at the border. What do you find objectionable about that?

Nothing except the quotas should be reasonable. It shouldn't take a 50 to a 100 years for a computer engineer from India to get a work permit. Neither should it be impossible for a Honduran family of agricultural workers to immigrate. The decision to allow a person to immigrate should be based on their education, skills and character, not there country of origin.

There's a computer engineer in my condo with an H2b visa, a graduate of Stanford and CalTech that needs a work permit so he can leave his current employer and start a new company in the US. He was told by immigration that there are 225,000 workers from India trying to get a work permit so the wait would be in excess of 50 years. If he were born in Thailand, the wait would be about 1 year. That's crazy. I'm all for enforcing immigration laws but those laws need to fair and in the best interest of the country.

Then why doesn't he go to Thailand?

Would you immigrate to Thailand and give up your US citizenship to work in another country. It think not.

What he will probably do is return to India and setup his company there since his backers have agreed to fund him wherever he decides to go. I just hate to see our nation lose someone that talented.

And I hate to lose a nation because we are inviting so many immigrants here who are changing our language, culture and politics.

Sorry, but I don't want to see us as a single-party government forever because we fell into this Democrat trap. Once they get unrestricted power, the great experiment will be over, and our success will only be known to our children in history books.

600,000 new immigrants (about .18% of the population) each year becoming citizens is not a lot and they're not getting control of the government. Only 20% of naturalized Americans are coming from Latin America.

You lost the nation long ago to immigrants because most all of us are immigrants, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation.

Yes we are, but we don't need immigrants any longer. They are causing more problems for this country than we can handle. I don't care what the percentage is. But since you're so good at math, what percentage of our population where the 15 hijackers that were responsible for 911?

 

[JoeB131]

No, once Democrats have power and convert us to Socialism/ Communism, it will be the fault of surrender first whites like you who offered this country for political sacrifice.

Yawn, guy, you might like living in a country where most of us are exploited, but frankly, I'm not that thrilled with the concept.

Then we will be just like all the other shitholes across the world like North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, and all of the countries directly south of our border.

You mean the countries south of the border we spent years exploiting. those countries?

And if the liberals don't destroy history like they are trying to do today like tearing down statues, our children will read about what a great country this once was and ask why did we let it slip through our fingers? Why didn't we do something to preserve it like the many generations before us.

Actually, if they were reading accurate history books, they'd know this was a country built by immigrants...

Yes we are, but we don't need immigrants any longer. They are causing more problems for this country than we can handle. I don't care what the percentage is. But since you're so good at math, what percentage of our population where the 15 hijackers that were responsible for 911?

What percentage of the population were the white racists who blew up the Murrow building?

 

[JoeB131]

I didn't say anything about contributions. I said if Socialism is so great, why not move and try it out for a while before you try to destroy this country with it?

1) I don't advocate socialism...I realize that you confuse "being a decent human being" with that, but that's neither here nor there.

2) This is the immigration thread, not the Socialism thread

3) When you have a DD214, then you can tell veterans about who does and doesn't love this country.

You leftists are amazing with your blame game. You credit DumBama for the great economy Trump is presiding over and now you are telling me that other countries would be just as great as we are today if something like wars didn't happen almost 200 years ago.

You do realize that when you steal half a country's territory, that's going to have an effect, right?

Or do you worry they'll take it back through immigration?

Don't worry, man, Ohio is safe. Nobody really wants that sinkhole.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

1) I don't advocate socialism...I realize that you confuse "being a decent human being" with that, but that's neither here nor there.

2) This is the immigration thread, not the Socialism thread

3) When you have a DD214, then you can tell veterans about who does and doesn't love this country.

Never said anything about loving the country either. But we are a country of laws, and our laws tell us exactly what the situation of foreigners coming to this country are. It's you on the left that wish to ignore those laws.

You do realize that when you steal half a country's territory, that's going to have an effect, right?

Or do you worry they'll take it back through immigration?

Don't worry, man, Ohio is safe. Nobody really wants that sinkhole.

Yes, because Ill is such a paradise.

As a member of the Party of Excuses, your talk about what happened nearly 200 years ago is nothing more than that--an excuse. 200 years ago and more is when people were making claims to land be it found or fought for. Those days are long gone and the boundaries have been set for generations. Now it's time to work with them.

 

[Flopper]

Nothing except the quotas should be reasonable. It shouldn't take a 50 to a 100 years for a computer engineer from India to get a work permit. Neither should it be impossible for a Honduran family of agricultural workers to immigrate. The decision to allow a person to immigrate should be based on their education, skills and character, not there country of origin.

There's a computer engineer in my condo with an H2b visa, a graduate of Stanford and CalTech that needs a work permit so he can leave his current employer and start a new company in the US. He was told by immigration that there are 225,000 workers from India trying to get a work permit so the wait would be in excess of 50 years. If he were born in Thailand, the wait would be about 1 year. That's crazy. I'm all for enforcing immigration laws but those laws need to fair and in the best interest of the country.

Then why doesn't he go to Thailand?

Would you immigrate to Thailand and give up your US citizenship to work in another country. It think not.

What he will probably do is return to India and setup his company there since his backers have agreed to fund him wherever he decides to go. I just hate to see our nation lose someone that talented.

And I hate to lose a nation because we are inviting so many immigrants here who are changing our language, culture and politics.

Sorry, but I don't want to see us as a single-party government forever because we fell into this Democrat trap. Once they get unrestricted power, the great experiment will be over, and our success will only be known to our children in history books.

600,000 new immigrants (about .18% of the population) each year becoming citizens is not a lot and they're not getting control of the government. Only 20% of naturalized Americans are coming from Latin America.

You lost the nation long ago to immigrants because most all of us are immigrants, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation.

Yes we are, but we don't need immigrants any longer. They are causing more problems for this country than we can handle. I don't care what the percentage is. But since you're so good at math, what percentage of our population where the 15 hijackers that were responsible for 911?

Legal immigrants to the US are better educated, and more likely to start new businesses than native born Americans. They tend to be risk takers and are far more likely to make the sacrifices needed to live the American dream than native born Americans.

In America, we seem to forget just how lucky we are to be born in a country where we are free to do whatever we choose with our lives. Immigrants remind us of just how lucky we are and how we fail to take advantage of our freedoms. Maybe that's why so many of us resent immigrants.

The day we stop immigration, is the day American goes into a downward spiral and become a second rate nation. It is new blood and new ideas that make America great.

 

[koshergrl]

Then why doesn't he go to Thailand?

Would you immigrate to Thailand and give up your US citizenship to work in another country. It think not.

What he will probably do is return to India and setup his company there since his backers have agreed to fund him wherever he decides to go. I just hate to see our nation lose someone that talented.

And I hate to lose a nation because we are inviting so many immigrants here who are changing our language, culture and politics.

Sorry, but I don't want to see us as a single-party government forever because we fell into this Democrat trap. Once they get unrestricted power, the great experiment will be over, and our success will only be known to our children in history books.

600,000 new immigrants (about .18% of the population) each year becoming citizens is not a lot and they're not getting control of the government. Only 20% of naturalized Americans are coming from Latin America.

You lost the nation long ago to immigrants because most all of us are immigrants, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation.

Yes we are, but we don't need immigrants any longer. They are causing more problems for this country than we can handle. I don't care what the percentage is. But since you're so good at math, what percentage of our population where the 15 hijackers that were responsible for 911?

Legal immigrants to the US are better educated, and more likely to start new businesses than native born Americans. They tend to be risk takers and are far more likely to make the sacrifices needed to live the American dream than native born Americans.

In America, we seem to forget just how lucky we are to be born in a country where we are free to do whatever we choose with our lives. Immigrants remind us of just how lucky we are and how we fail to take advantage of our freedoms. Maybe that's why so many of us resent immigrants.

The day we stop immigration, is the day American goes into a downward spiral and become a second rate nation. It is new blood and new ideas that make America great.

Nobody is interested in stopping immigration.

 

[MaryL]

I know a few "legal" immigrants. They had to pay thousands and hire immigration lawyers. People from Hungary or Lithuania or east Germany. Back in the day. During the height of Communism . But now, Mexicans just sneak in here, and if caught, claim they are "victim of immigration laws" and nobody questions that. Well some of us do, because we know better. It's bullshit. In Human terms, this is plain unadulterated bullshit. We need to hold Mexicans to the same immigration standard as people fleeing Communism or real oppression, not this exaggerated bullshit...and, besides, they can and SHOULD immigrate legally with no excuses. Because others managed to get in here over the years without making sanctuary cities for them, or political pandering to them. You notice that? Just Mexicans...They need special help. Why?

 

[Flopper]

Would you immigrate to Thailand and give up your US citizenship to work in another country. It think not.

What he will probably do is return to India and setup his company there since his backers have agreed to fund him wherever he decides to go. I just hate to see our nation lose someone that talented.

And I hate to lose a nation because we are inviting so many immigrants here who are changing our language, culture and politics.

Sorry, but I don't want to see us as a single-party government forever because we fell into this Democrat trap. Once they get unrestricted power, the great experiment will be over, and our success will only be known to our children in history books.

600,000 new immigrants (about .18% of the population) each year becoming citizens is not a lot and they're not getting control of the government. Only 20% of naturalized Americans are coming from Latin America.

You lost the nation long ago to immigrants because most all of us are immigrants, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation.

Yes we are, but we don't need immigrants any longer. They are causing more problems for this country than we can handle. I don't care what the percentage is. But since you're so good at math, what percentage of our population where the 15 hijackers that were responsible for 911?

Legal immigrants to the US are better educated, and more likely to start new businesses than native born Americans. They tend to be risk takers and are far more likely to make the sacrifices needed to live the American dream than native born Americans.

In America, we seem to forget just how lucky we are to be born in a country where we are free to do whatever we choose with our lives. Immigrants remind us of just how lucky we are and how we fail to take advantage of our freedoms. Maybe that's why so many of us resent immigrants.

The day we stop immigration, is the day American goes into a downward spiral and become a second rate nation. It is new blood and new ideas that make America great.

Nobody is interested in stopping immigration.

Ray seems to be.

In many discussions on immigration, I have found that most people that feel very strongly about illegal immigration feel exactly the same about legal immigration. They simply don't won't foreigners in the country, polluting our culture with other languages, customs, and ideas.

 

[Flopper]

I know a few "legal" immigrants. They had to pay thousands and hire immigration lawyers. People from Hungary or Lithuania or east Germany. Back in the day. During the height of Communism . But now, Mexicans just sneak in here, and if caught, claim they are "victim of immigration laws" and nobody questions that. Well some of us do, because we know better. It's bullshit. In Human terms, this is plain unadulterated bullshit. We need to hold Mexicans to the same immigration standard as people fleeing Communism or real oppression, not this exaggerated bullshit...and, besides, they can and SHOULD immigrate legally with no excuses. Because others managed to get in here over the years without making sanctuary cities for them, or political pandering to them. You notice that? Just Mexicans...They need special help. Why?

Most people that are detained at the border are removed or deported. Of those that aren't, the primary reason is they are able to produce documentation showing they are legally in the US.

Interior deportations are much harder because detainees are heard in immigration courts not criminal courts. Immigration courts are civil courts and follow different laws and procedures. Since many of the people being detained are long term residents in the US, they are more likely to have lawyers and to be released. If you don't like this, change the law.

 

[koshergrl]

And I hate to lose a nation because we are inviting so many immigrants here who are changing our language, culture and politics.

Sorry, but I don't want to see us as a single-party government forever because we fell into this Democrat trap. Once they get unrestricted power, the great experiment will be over, and our success will only be known to our children in history books.

600,000 new immigrants (about .18% of the population) each year becoming citizens is not a lot and they're not getting control of the government. Only 20% of naturalized Americans are coming from Latin America.

You lost the nation long ago to immigrants because most all of us are immigrants, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation.

Yes we are, but we don't need immigrants any longer. They are causing more problems for this country than we can handle. I don't care what the percentage is. But since you're so good at math, what percentage of our population where the 15 hijackers that were responsible for 911?

Legal immigrants to the US are better educated, and more likely to start new businesses than native born Americans. They tend to be risk takers and are far more likely to make the sacrifices needed to live the American dream than native born Americans.

In America, we seem to forget just how lucky we are to be born in a country where we are free to do whatever we choose with our lives. Immigrants remind us of just how lucky we are and how we fail to take advantage of our freedoms. Maybe that's why so many of us resent immigrants.

The day we stop immigration, is the day American goes into a downward spiral and become a second rate nation. It is new blood and new ideas that make America great.

Nobody is interested in stopping immigration.

Ray seems to be.

In many discussions on immigration, I have found that most people that feel very strongly about illegal immigration feel exactly the same about legal immigration. They simply don't won't foreigners in the country, polluting our culture with other languages, customs, and ideas.

Sure you have. And Trump said all migrants are animals, too.

 

[JoeB131]

I know a few "legal" immigrants. They had to pay thousands and hire immigration lawyers. People from Hungary or Lithuania or east Germany. Back in the day. During the height of Communism . But now, Mexicans just sneak in here, and if caught, claim they are "victim of immigration laws" and nobody questions that. Well some of us do, because we know better. It's bullshit. In Human terms, this is plain unadulterated bullshit. We need to hold Mexicans to the same immigration standard as people fleeing Communism or real oppression, not this exaggerated bullshit...and, besides, they can and SHOULD immigrate legally with no excuses. Because others managed to get in here over the years without making sanctuary cities for them, or political pandering to them. You notice that? Just Mexicans...They need special help. Why?

Again, the thing is, we steal half of Mexico's territory and then wonder why they want to come here. amazing.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And I hate to lose a nation because we are inviting so many immigrants here who are changing our language, culture and politics.

Sorry, but I don't want to see us as a single-party government forever because we fell into this Democrat trap. Once they get unrestricted power, the great experiment will be over, and our success will only be known to our children in history books.

600,000 new immigrants (about .18% of the population) each year becoming citizens is not a lot and they're not getting control of the government. Only 20% of naturalized Americans are coming from Latin America.

You lost the nation long ago to immigrants because most all of us are immigrants, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation.

Yes we are, but we don't need immigrants any longer. They are causing more problems for this country than we can handle. I don't care what the percentage is. But since you're so good at math, what percentage of our population where the 15 hijackers that were responsible for 911?

Legal immigrants to the US are better educated, and more likely to start new businesses than native born Americans. They tend to be risk takers and are far more likely to make the sacrifices needed to live the American dream than native born Americans.

In America, we seem to forget just how lucky we are to be born in a country where we are free to do whatever we choose with our lives. Immigrants remind us of just how lucky we are and how we fail to take advantage of our freedoms. Maybe that's why so many of us resent immigrants.

The day we stop immigration, is the day American goes into a downward spiral and become a second rate nation. It is new blood and new ideas that make America great.

Nobody is interested in stopping immigration.

Ray seems to be.

In many discussions on immigration, I have found that most people that feel very strongly about illegal immigration feel exactly the same about legal immigration. They simply don't won't foreigners in the country, polluting our culture with other languages, customs, and ideas.

And let's not forget taking our jobs, keeping wages down for the jobs they didn't take, and the crime they bring with them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In America, we seem to forget just how lucky we are to be born in a country where we are free to do whatever we choose with our lives. Immigrants remind us of just how lucky we are and how we fail to take advantage of our freedoms. Maybe that's why so many of us resent immigrants.

The last thing we need is immigrants for that. If you really want to appreciate our freedoms, make sure Democrats never have power again in this country because liberals are power hungry control freaks that hate freedom.

I'm sure foreigners do take a lot of risks. If they fail, screw the country, they are moving back home. It's the same thing in my field of work where we are polluted with immigrants. If a foreign driver kills Americans in an accident, just hop on a plane and go back to their country. Problem solved.

We survived a lot of misfortunes in this country. Diseases, wars, murders, so I don't think that stopping a bunch of people from other countries is going to be the end of our civilization. I think it would improve things very much in fact.