What is accomplished by prayer?

[MaryL]

The world

Prayer may not do anything, but it can't hurt. Like lighting a candle in the darkness.

Prayer, like any endeavor of crisis or practice, is nothing more than an attempt to understand the world around us. It harms no one, but seems to threaten many.

How is that?

How is what? How is it a threat to others or how does it help us understand the world?

What is the world to you? Depends, you want to live forever and win the lottery every time you pray? Prayer never promised that, prayer is a subtle physiological thing. Mother Teresa had her black moods and doubted god.Me too, prayer is what you make it.

 

[tycho1572]

I have a very simple question: When one prays for things, either for one's self, or others - employment, money, healing from illness, or injury, things of this nature, what, exactly does such prayer accomplish? why is it that every single Christian who responds wants to respond with justifications for every other kind of prayer except this particular type. Is the question really that difficult to answer?

Like you were told earlier by WillHaftawaite, it's something you'll never understand.

DOUBLE FLAG ON THE PLAY

​

Ahh... it's looking like you're missing the love most here have. I think another song is in order....

So, since you're incapable of offering a rational answer to the question, you just decided to resort to trolling.

How droll...

You're asking for a rational response to an irrational question. It's why I've been sharing some songs with you.

 

[Darkwind]

The world

Prayer may not do anything, but it can't hurt. Like lighting a candle in the darkness.

Prayer, like any endeavor of crisis or practice, is nothing more than an attempt to understand the world around us. It harms no one, but seems to threaten many.

How is that?

How is what? How is it a threat to others or how does it help us understand the world?

What is the world to you? Depends, you want to live forever and win the lottery every time you pray? Prayer never promised that, prayer is a subtle physiological thing. Mother Teresa had her black moods and doubted god.Me too, prayer is what you make it.

Who is arguing that prayer brings those things about?

Prayer is never about the world but about how we deal with the world.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

He didn't imply that they were equivalent, just that they were similar in one way or another. If you don't know the difference in that, then I suggest you take a discrete math course or a computer programming course, in order to brush up on your logic.

LMAO

I have a degree in Web Development which entails discrete math AND logic along with OOP concepts in Java and C# plus scripting in Emacs (javascript), PHP, and Pearl.

He, and you don't seem to understand the difference between meditation methodology and the concept of mind/body strengthening.

Yoga is an exercise for strengthening the body with some aspects of mind/body harmony.....Meditation is the practice of mindfulness. The quieting and discipline of the mind.

I suggest examining the colors of Picasso to see if you just see colors or some deeper meaning.

"I have a degree in Web Development which entails discrete math AND logic along with OOP concepts in Java and C# plus scripting in Emacs (javascript), PHP, and Pearl."

So what?

"Yoga is an exercise for strengthening the body with some aspects of mind/body harmony.....Meditation is the practice of mindfulness."

Okay, but that's your opinion of what yoga does for you. In my experience, yoga is used as and with meditation for many people. For instance, many will assume a certain yoga pose, hold it, meditate. Your little dance is a sidestep. "haha, you don't know what yoga is!". Yeah boy, you really got him there.

anyhoo, who cares, sorry I even commented on it. Off topic distraction from the start.

So, you disregard what yoga is to favor your own prejudice for what you think it is. I'm sure that Cindy Crawford will support your claims. However, people who do practice meditation know different.

I'm not knocking yoga since I practice it when I can and it is very useful for maintaining good health and flexibility.

Either way, prayer is not yoga and is rarely meditation, even though it originally began as just that. One cannot get closer to God when the mind is wrapped up in the self.

I don't disregard what yoga is, but he does have a point when saying "yoga for Christians". You know what the point is. And, instead of facing this point, you harp like a little baby on semantics. And we both know why.

Yes. I am trying to steer the conversation back to what it was or what it should be and remove him from his wrong tangent. He used yoga as a means to demean what prayer is, and I corrected him. It is up to him to accept the lesson of how he was wrong or not. Just as you are wrong for My motivations, which is no surprise really. But you have to do this, and we both know why.

"He used yoga as a means to demean what prayer is, and I corrected him."

I don't think that demeans prayer. I think it demonstrates a value of it. His point seems to be that it's a "spiritual" experience of mind and body like yoga or meditation is, and I don't think you disagree. I don't think the two of you necessarily disagree on the benefits to body and mind of any of these things. What YOU disagree with is the idea that it's "nothing more" than this. No gods, no faeries, no big ear in the sky, no actual effect on anything outside your own skin (save for altering , maybe, how you treat others). But that's not the point you are countering. And I don't blame you, because, frankly, asserting that a god is listening and does anything as a result is a pretty absurd thing to believe. But that's kind of what you are left with, isn't it? If you want to disagree with him, that is. Oh, and yoga semantics. Or would that be semantics yoga? Hard telling.

 

[MaryL]

I used to pray for things, if it works for you, well, keep on doing it. But I pray, it seems like...damn. Might as well throw a penny in the wishing well or rub Buddha's belly, I get random chance and it usually isn't good.

 

[Likkmee]

Shall we refer to it as a form of meditation sine that DOES have proven health benefits ? Does that make you feel better ?

 

[Czernobog]

Prayer may not do anything, but it can't hurt. Like lighting a candle in the darkness.

Prayer, like any endeavor of crisis or practice, is nothing more than an attempt to understand the world around us. It harms no one, but seems to threaten many.

How is that?

How is what? How is it a threat to others or how does it help us understand the world?

Oh! I'd certainly love an answer to the latter.

You can have one beginning tonight. Just sit down and meditate or pray, whichever is your preference.

So, again, you demonstrate the irrationality of your position. I have only sought reason, and logic. If your position was reasonable, and logical you wouldn't need me to "experience" it to understand.

Gravity exists. I don't need you to "experience" it to explain it to you. When you go to the top of a building and drop a ball, it will fall to the ground. That is gravity. See how easy that is to explain? Why is it easy to explain? Because it is reasonable, rational, and logical.

Prayer clearly is none of these, as you have all failed to explain it, and most of you have been forced to resort to "Try it, you'll understand,"

 

[Czernobog]

I used to pray for things, if it works for you, well, keep on doing it. But I pray, it seems like...damn. Might as well throw a penny in the wishing well or rub Buddha's belly, I get random chance and it usually isn't good.

That's because prayer doesn't work.

 

[Czernobog]

I have a very simple question: When one prays for things, either for one's self, or others - employment, money, healing from illness, or injury, things of this nature, what, exactly does such prayer accomplish? why is it that every single Christian who responds wants to respond with justifications for every other kind of prayer except this particular type. Is the question really that difficult to answer?

Like you were told earlier by WillHaftawaite, it's something you'll never understand.

DOUBLE FLAG ON THE PLAY

​

Ahh... it's looking like you're missing the love most here have. I think another song is in order....

So, since you're incapable of offering a rational answer to the question, you just decided to resort to trolling.

How droll...

You're asking for a rational response to an irrational question. It's why I've been sharing some songs with you.

And that is the first honest answer I have gotten. Prayer is irrational.

 

[Czernobog]

He didn't imply that they were equivalent, just that they were similar in one way or another. If you don't know the difference in that, then I suggest you take a discrete math course or a computer programming course, in order to brush up on your logic.

LMAO

I have a degree in Web Development which entails discrete math AND logic along with OOP concepts in Java and C# plus scripting in Emacs (javascript), PHP, and Pearl.

He, and you don't seem to understand the difference between meditation methodology and the concept of mind/body strengthening.

Yoga is an exercise for strengthening the body with some aspects of mind/body harmony.....Meditation is the practice of mindfulness. The quieting and discipline of the mind.

I suggest examining the colors of Picasso to see if you just see colors or some deeper meaning.

"I have a degree in Web Development which entails discrete math AND logic along with OOP concepts in Java and C# plus scripting in Emacs (javascript), PHP, and Pearl."

So what?

"Yoga is an exercise for strengthening the body with some aspects of mind/body harmony.....Meditation is the practice of mindfulness."

Okay, but that's your opinion of what yoga does for you. In my experience, yoga is used as and with meditation for many people. For instance, many will assume a certain yoga pose, hold it, meditate. Your little dance is a sidestep. "haha, you don't know what yoga is!". Yeah boy, you really got him there.

anyhoo, who cares, sorry I even commented on it. Off topic distraction from the start.

So, you disregard what yoga is to favor your own prejudice for what you think it is. I'm sure that Cindy Crawford will support your claims. However, people who do practice meditation know different.

I'm not knocking yoga since I practice it when I can and it is very useful for maintaining good health and flexibility.

Either way, prayer is not yoga and is rarely meditation, even though it originally began as just that. One cannot get closer to God when the mind is wrapped up in the self.

I don't disregard what yoga is, but he does have a point when saying "yoga for Christians". You know what the point is. And, instead of facing this point, you harp like a little baby on semantics. And we both know why.

Yes. I am trying to steer the conversation back to what it was or what it should be and remove him from his wrong tangent. He used yoga as a means to demean what prayer is, and I corrected him. It is up to him to accept the lesson of how he was wrong or not. Just as you are wrong for My motivations, which is no surprise really. But you have to do this, and we both know why.

Actually, I used yoga to ridicule your superficial, glib response to my serious question. I figure insincerity deserves insincerity.

 

[Czernobog]

Shall we refer to it as a form of meditation sine that DOES have proven health benefits ? Does that make you feel better ?

Okay. Once again, for the cheap seats. I completely understand the mental, psychological, and emotional benefits of of devotional prayer. were it not for the supernatural superstition attached to it, I might even recommend such meditative practice. Since it is attached to said superstition I would actually suggest that yoga, or any of a number of other types of meditative practices are available that are not attached to irrational helpings of superstition. I did not, in my OP, nor any time since, question that this particular type of prayer can be used for a purpose. So, let's all make this easier on everyone, and agree that we agree on this point:

THERE ARE PERSONAL BENEFITS TO BE GAINED FROM MEDITATIVE, DEVOTIONAL PRAYER.

Now. Now that we are all in agreement of this specific type of prayer, perhaps we can all actually move on to the type of prayer that I was asking about - prayers of petition. These are the prayers in which the participants are specifically asking for divine intervention in events of life. Prayer for healing, for divine guidance of the surgeon's hands during a surgery, assistance in finding employment, or help with financial difficulties are examples, but, by no means, the only examples, of this type of prayer.

I would still like someone to explain what this particular type of prayer accomplishes, if anything.

 

[Likkmee]

Well. You're no dummy but that shall be 100% certain about 20 minutes AFTER your last breath. If you're wrong and I'm right; you lose. If you're right and I'm wrong; I lost nothing.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Well. You're no dummy but that shall be 100% certain about 20 minutes AFTER your last breath. If you're wrong and I'm right; you lose. If you're right and I'm wrong; I lost nothing.

"If you're wrong and I'm right; you lose. If you're right and I'm wrong; I lost nothing."

To me, this seems like you are molesting faith. "Fuck you faith, I'm doing this to hedge". It seems like a pretty cheap con. Unless you would like to admit that it's a shit point, and not at all why you believe in god. Or is it? Is it why? If so, is that really faith? Nope.


What if you're wrong? Well, not to speak to you individually..... But, on the whole, what if people are wrong to suspend their incredulity and respect "faith" as knowledge? Well, that can lead to all sorts of dumb shit. Right? So there can be a cost to throwing in your lot with a god. I'll bet you're a fine person, though. Thank goodness for reason and science and reformation, else you might be a bit different in acting out your faith.

 

[Czernobog]

Well. You're no dummy but that shall be 100% certain about 20 minutes AFTER your last breath. If you're wrong and I'm right; you lose. If you're right and I'm wrong; I lost nothing.

FLAG ON THE PLAY

​

 

[Ringel05]

5 Scientifically Supported Benefits of Prayer

11 Benefits of Mud Baths - Baths Roman Spa

Cool. What does that have to do with the discussion? I mean other than a pathetic attempt at a 'gotcha'?

"Cool. What does that have to do with the discussion? "

I can't speak for him, but I think the point is that lots of things make us "feel better", and this is not a reason to acquiesce to any magical claims about any of it.

Not that you were insisting this was so.

You don't know Synth..........

 

[Weatherman2020]

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

One last one I want to get to first. #10.

10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.

There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%. Three randomized controlled trials have shown that male circumcision provided by well trained health professionals in properly equipped settings is safe.
WHO | Male circumcision for HIV prevention
Male circumcision for HIV prevention

So who is the unscientific one again?

Good grief, what a stupid fucking argument. For one, you are trying to present something we just learned as a reason for a stupid idea that has been around since the first illiterate goat herder heard these bronze age fairy tales around a fire.

Second, genital mutilation also includes mutilating females. But, being the deep thinker you are NOT, this thought never even fizzled into your brain for a fleeting instant.

Third, you dont get to be the retard who says HIV is "God's wrath", and then also assert he thought ahead of a way to save people from getting it.

Seriously...that was mind-numbingly stupid, on every level.

Good grief. God knew it was a healthy practice, just as not eating pork and shellfish was.
Dufus, you better start thinking outside your tiny bubble, you keep displaying your ignorance on the topic.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Onto #5.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).

Ah, the "it happened 500 years ago" argument. The today practice you mention is other religions, not mine.
If you want to believe it was done for the good of the people rather than power and control, that is your issue. There is no mention of torturing and burning people at the stake in the Bible.

500 years ago? Really?

Nigerian girl 'killed for witchcraft rituals'


Bringing Witch Killers To Justice

And those are just a couple of examples. Apparently you missed the "a practice which still continues today" part.

Your reading comprehension skills are 1st grade levels.

"The today practice you mention is other religions, not mine."

 

[Windparadox]

`
`
"When I was young, I prayed for a bike but never got one. Then, I discovered God doesn't work that way. So I stole one and prayed for forgiveness."
`

 

[Weatherman2020]

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Off to #6.
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.

What do you mean by "make the most this life"? If you mean not going to third world countries to help people living in boxes with sewage running down the dirt road outside get on their feet to become productive adults and get medical treatment to save lives and make people walk and instead going to bars and watching TV, then I plead guilty. You got me on this one.

Nope. I mean aren't just e3njoying their lives. Christianity has them so twisted up about the quality of their "after life" that they can't just enjoy this life. Conversion therapy comes screaming to mind. For fuck's sake! Quit torturing yourself, ad just be you! But you see, Christianity says you can't do that, because it's eeeeeeebullllllll!!!!!!!!

Nope. I mean aren't just e3njoying their lives. Christianity has them so twisted up about the quality of their "after life" that they can't just enjoy this life. Conversion therapy comes screaming to mind. For fuck's sake! Quit torturing yourself, ad just be you! But you see, Christianity says you can't do that, because it's eeeeeeebullllllll!!!!!!!!

Christians are the happiest people on earth. We e3njoy everything about life. What is not to enjoy when you help people in need? Atheists like you obviously need to lie and create a false illusion that helping people in need is not enjoyable to justify your pathetic hate filled lives.

I have been to every continent (except Antarctica) helping people in need. This morning I just got done Facebooking people from every corner of the globe who grew up in extreme poverty and now have college degrees and are leading productive lives because of what I have done. 20 people call me dad.

Last month I met a man from Kenya who was a self made millionaire. He used all of his money to establish orphanages and schools and he has several thousand people calling him dad.

What have you done to make your life enjoyable?

 

[Weatherman2020]

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Let's make it easy, each one you cut and pasted is either a lie or it is because you or a few people do not follow what the Bible teaches.

11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
Bible does not teach that. Luke, author of the Book of Luke, was a medical doctor himself.

12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
People disown family members for lots of things, politics, money, they borrowed my hedge trimmer and never returned it.......

13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
See 12.

14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
Funny statistics pulled out of the rectum.

15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
Fantasy scenario that is a lie.

16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
Only ones into censorship are atheists. Christians established the most freedom loving government in human history.

17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
As you demonize Christianity.

18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
See earlier rebuttal on the long list of famous Christian scientists as well as every man who walked on the moon. There is more wisdom in just the book of Proverbs than in all universities combined. Which explains a lot about your posts.

19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
Honestly, where do you dig this up? See 18 and Christians are not committing mass suicide, no matter how much you pray they do.

20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
My God directed me to take care of the earth and all of the creatures in it. Your display of ignorance on my faith #459.

21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
Bible clearly states divorce is allowed if there is abuse. Your display of ignorance of my faith #460.

22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
Back to 500 years ago. See post on people using religion for power. The Bible clearly says to walk away in such cases of disagreement. Your display of ignorance of my faith #461.

23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
When and where did this occur? Strawman.

24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
Again, people like you who read a tiny fraction of the Bible and jump to wild conclusions.

25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
And children traumatized by vivid stories that their life is no more important than a mushroom and totally meaningless.

26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
Atheists long for being able to murder people who they see as unfit. Gypsies, handicapped, etc. Very popular in 1930's Europe.

27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
Presenting theories and letting the listener decide is called science and freedom, something you atheists obviously hate.

28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
Back to 500 years ago. Again, people who read a tiny fraction of the Bible and jump to wild conclusions as well as desire to use it for power.

29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
Because a liquor store is closed people go to church and give their booze money to the church instead? Hilarious.

30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
Never heard of anyone unqualified yet winning office simply because of their faith or lack of faith. Strawman.

31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
Again, not following the Bible are they?

32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
Do tell!

33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
Says the atheist who likes to see Christian artists forced to make their art against their faith or have their lives destroyed. Again with the lies, Christianity does not allow for the execution of unbelievers.

34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
Free will, something you atheists obviously hate.

35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
Again, you read a tiny fraction of the Bible and jump to wild conclusions. Strawman.

36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
I know of no one not crediting Scully for getting everyone down safely on the Hudson.

37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
Mother Teresa, who took in hundreds of thousands of dying people on the streets offered them dignity and care and never denied treatments that were available. Strawman.

38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
So? Hundreds of billions are spent on football. It is called a free society, again something you atheists hate.

39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
Again, tiny fraction of the Bible and wild conclusions. God is just. No one has a problem with free will and justice. Except atheists.

40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).
Some people blame a hurricane was caused by a butterfly landing on a flower on the other side of the world, so what's it to you?

Thank you for the time in cutting and pasting that. Every single one of your points is invalid.