What Is The Republican Alternative To ObamaCare

[RKMBrown]

Roberts legislated from the bench that it wasn't a mandate, but in fact, it was a tax.
If I remember correctly that if it had remained a mandate that the vote was 7-2 against it.

Near as I can tell though they called it a mandate, it never mandated anything. Thus was a mandate in name only. Thus was and is clearly a tax. No different than the rest of income taxes, where the government picks and chooses what to exempt from tax and when to double down on tax to punish us for our sins of liberty.

Once again the commerce clause argument for the mandate was struck down as unconstitutional. please read the whole link. from the supreme court link I posted.

I read briefs for a living. I've already been through this case in detail, for fun. Yes the argument for using the commerce clause to defend basis for the OCA mandate was not affirmed. So what? The argument that won the case was that the OCA mandate is not a mandate, it's a tax. IOW the government used an incorrect term to describe the law. Apparently it's not UN-consitutional to be a piss poor writer / deceiver when writing new tax bills / laws in DC.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Near as I can tell though they called it a mandate, it never mandated anything. Thus was a mandate in name only. Thus was and is clearly a tax. No different than the rest of income taxes, where the government picks and chooses what to exempt from tax and when to double down on tax to punish us for our sins of liberty.

Once again the commerce clause argument for the mandate was struck down as unconstitutional. please read the whole link. from the supreme court link I posted.

I read briefs for a living. I've already been through this case in detail, for fun. Yes the argument for using the commerce clause to defend basis for the OCA mandate was not affirmed. So what? The argument that won the case was that the OCA mandate is not a mandate, it's a tax. IOW the government used an incorrect term to describe the law. Apparently it's not UN-consitutional to be a piss poor writer / deceiver when writing new tax bills / laws in DC.

So what? So what? dude please, the government cannot compel anyone to buy something they used the commerce clause it was struck down. But because of the tax hidden within the law obamacare remains constitutional. In other words you don't have to buy insurance, but you'll pay a penalty/ tax if you don't.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Now let's address one more thing. taxes originate from the house where did the ACA AS A BILL ORIGINATE FROM?

 

[RKMBrown]

yup, he argued it was the very thing obama adamantly refused to call it..


George and Obama debate health care taxes - YouTube

Yeah they are trying to spin an optional tax as not a tax because you can buy your insurance and avoid the fine, this in the face of all the mandatory hidden taxes included in OCA.

I see the confusion here. because it's ruled a tax it still a mandate. however the mandate to buy something goes beyond the authority of the federal government paraphrased of what Roberts said of course.

Correct. They did not rule the feds can mandate we buy private insurance. They merely ruled that the feds can tax us for the mere cause of not having insurance. More specifically they can tax us for any reason they want to tax us for. If we don't like that we might want to change this amendment to the Constitution: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." (Amendment XVI.)

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yeah they are trying to spin an optional tax as not a tax because you can buy your insurance and avoid the fine, this in the face of all the mandatory hidden taxes included in OCA.

I see the confusion here. because it's ruled a tax it still a mandate. however the mandate to buy something goes beyond the authority of the federal government paraphrased of what Roberts said of course.

Correct. They did not rule the feds can mandate we buy private insurance. They merely ruled that the feds can tax us for the mere cause of not having insurance. More specifically they can tax us for any reason they want to tax us for. If we don't like that we might want to change this amendment to the Constitution: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." (Amendment XVI.)

OK there is one more thing that must be address. Where do taxes originate from? The house or the senate?

 

[RKMBrown]

Now let's address one more thing. taxes originate from the house where did the ACA AS A BILL ORIGINATE FROM?

Does not matter, the house voted in approval. The house could have used their power to block it and did not. Election results matter. Next time some party promises to change everything about your country, maybe we can get the vote out?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Now let's address one more thing. taxes originate from the house where did the ACA AS A BILL ORIGINATE FROM?

Does not matter, the house voted in approval. The house could have used their power to block it and did not. Votes matter.

actually no, the ACA tax originated from the senate. and it does matter

 

[paperview]

Now let's address one more thing. taxes originate from the house where did the ACA AS A BILL ORIGINATE FROM?

Does not matter, the house voted in approval. The house could have used their power to block it and did not. Votes matter.

actually no, the ACA tax originated from the senate. and it does matter

Much as I dislike Harry Reid, he knows how the law works, and Michelle Bachmann's stupid talking point has been discussed to death.

The Senate amended a benefits bill that originated in the House to create the ACA.

It went to conference as a totally unrelated bill and Senate Dems rewrote it as Obamacare, passed it via budget reconciliation, and sent it “back” to the house.

Senate

The Senate began work on its own proposals while the House was still working on the Affordable Health Care for America Act. Instead, the Senate took up H.R. 3590, a bill regarding housing tax breaks for service members.[88] As the United States Constitution requires all revenue-related bills to originate in the House,[89] the Senate took up this bill since it was first passed by the House as a revenue-related modification to the Internal Revenue Code. The bill was then used as the Senate's vehicle for their healthcare reform proposal, completely revising the content of the bill

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[RKMBrown]

I see the confusion here. because it's ruled a tax it still a mandate. however the mandate to buy something goes beyond the authority of the federal government paraphrased of what Roberts said of course.

Correct. They did not rule the feds can mandate we buy private insurance. They merely ruled that the feds can tax us for the mere cause of not having insurance. More specifically they can tax us for any reason they want to tax us for. If we don't like that we might want to change this amendment to the Constitution: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." (Amendment XVI.)

OK there is one more thing that must be address. Where do taxes originate from? The house or the senate?

Traditionally the house manages the purse. However, if the house votes on amendments to a bill originating from the Senate, it waives is power of origination of said amendments. Further, the so-called process of how bills are processed are rules that are self policed by both houses of congress. IOW they rammed it through before the pubs won back the house. Further they punted the pain far enough into the future that it would not impact Obama's next presidential election.

The democrats are in this for the long haul, they don't care how many decades it takes to convert us to a Marxist/Socialist slave state. They will keep pushing, and keep buying votes to the end of time or they win, which ever comes first.

 

[RKMBrown]

Does not matter, the house voted in approval. The house could have used their power to block it and did not. Votes matter.

actually no, the ACA tax originated from the senate. and it does matter

Much as I dislike Harry Reid, he knows how the law works, and Michelle Bachmann's stupid talking point has been discussed to death.

The Senate amended a benefits bill that originated in the House to create the ACA.

It went to conference as a totally unrelated bill and Senate Dems rewrote it as Obamacare, passed it via budget reconciliation, and sent it “back” to the house.

Senate

The Senate began work on its own proposals while the House was still working on the Affordable Health Care for America Act. Instead, the Senate took up H.R. 3590, a bill regarding housing tax breaks for service members.[88] As the United States Constitution requires all revenue-related bills to originate in the House,[89] the Senate took up this bill since it was first passed by the House as a revenue-related modification to the Internal Revenue Code. The bill was then used as the Senate's vehicle for their healthcare reform proposal, completely revising the content of the bill

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the house voted in approval. Case closed.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

actually no, the ACA tax originated from the senate. and it does matter

Much as I dislike Harry Reid, he knows how the law works, and Michelle Bachmann's stupid talking point has been discussed to death.

The Senate amended a benefits bill that originated in the House to create the ACA.

It went to conference as a totally unrelated bill and Senate Dems rewrote it as Obamacare, passed it via budget reconciliation, and sent it “back” to the house.

Senate

The Senate began work on its own proposals while the House was still working on the Affordable Health Care for America Act. Instead, the Senate took up H.R. 3590, a bill regarding housing tax breaks for service members.[88] As the United States Constitution requires all revenue-related bills to originate in the House,[89] the Senate took up this bill since it was first passed by the House as a revenue-related modification to the Internal Revenue Code. The bill was then used as the Senate's vehicle for their healthcare reform proposal, completely revising the content of the bill

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the house voted in approval. Case closed.

where do tax bill originate?
Did the ACA ORGINATE FROM THE PLACE THAT IT WAS CONSTITUTIONAL MANDATE TO START FROM?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Now that we agree obamacare was ruled a tax how about this.
Tax legislation has to originate in the House; the health-care law didn’t.
Obamacare?s Unconstitutional Origins | National Review Online

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Correct. They did not rule the feds can mandate we buy private insurance. They merely ruled that the feds can tax us for the mere cause of not having insurance. More specifically they can tax us for any reason they want to tax us for. If we don't like that we might want to change this amendment to the Constitution: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." (Amendment XVI.)

OK there is one more thing that must be address. Where do taxes originate from? The house or the senate?

Traditionally the house manages the purse. However, if the house votes on amendments to a bill originating from the Senate, it waives is power of origination of said amendments. Further, the so-called process of how bills are processed are rules that are self policed by both houses of congress. IOW they rammed it through before the pubs won back the house. Further they punted the pain far enough into the future that it would not impact Obama's next presidential election.

The democrats are in this for the long haul, they don't care how many decades it takes to convert us to a Marxist/Socialist slave state. They will keep pushing, and keep buying votes to the end of time or they win, which ever comes first.

Where the precedence at for this type of legislation? You had a democratic controlled senate and house pushing with everything they could to slide this piece of crap through does it matter to them about being constitutional or not? NO it does not.

 

[paperview]

where do tax bill originate?
...

I told you. The House.

Article I, § 7, cl. 1:
All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Now that we agree obamacare was ruled a tax how about this.
Tax legislation has to originate in the House; the health-care law didn’t.
Obamacare?s Unconstitutional Origins | National Review Online

So will obamacare stand another challenge in court since it's a tax but did not originate from the house?

 

[RKMBrown]

Once again the commerce clause argument for the mandate was struck down as unconstitutional. please read the whole link. from the supreme court link I posted.

I read briefs for a living. I've already been through this case in detail, for fun. Yes the argument for using the commerce clause to defend basis for the OCA mandate was not affirmed. So what? The argument that won the case was that the OCA mandate is not a mandate, it's a tax. IOW the government used an incorrect term to describe the law. Apparently it's not UN-consitutional to be a piss poor writer / deceiver when writing new tax bills / laws in DC.

So what? So what? dude please, the government cannot compel anyone to buy something they used the commerce clause it was struck down. But because of the tax hidden within the law obamacare remains constitutional. In other words you don't have to buy insurance, but you'll pay a penalty/ tax if you don't.

Yeah there are actually half a dozen taxes in OCA. The so called mandate tax is 1% on income going to 2.5% of income. The hidden taxes are placed on health care providers and insurance companies, that are in turn placed on consumers, these are the so called hidden taxes. Europe calls these sort of hidden taxes VAT taxes. But I digress.

The regulatory portions of OCA will be defended based on the commerce clause and other powers relegated to the feds. We'll have to wait and see if that portion of the OCA is thrown out when that issue comes to the court. Given that the tradition is states manage health care insurance regulations, I suspect the federal regulations will be thrown out by a Roberts court. That's my guess anyways. We'll see. This war over our health care is by no measure over. IOW I think the feds regulating away low premium high deductible plans will be ruled against. I don't see how the feds will get away with that, as it amounts to taking away the opportunity to access health care for a great many Americans. OCA would have been better off taxing those plans out of existence than mandating them out of existence.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

where do tax bill originate?
...

I told you. The House.

Article I, § 7, cl. 1:
All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

Well then we now can go back to how much standing does obamacare have constitutionally?
If it's a tax but did not originate from the house? and yes this does matter.

 

[paperview]

"Obamacare is the Law of the Land." John Boehner

 

[bigrebnc1775]

"Obamacare is the Law of the Land." John Boehner

his day will come also.

 

[RKMBrown]

Much as I dislike Harry Reid, he knows how the law works, and Michelle Bachmann's stupid talking point has been discussed to death.

The Senate amended a benefits bill that originated in the House to create the ACA.

It went to conference as a totally unrelated bill and Senate Dems rewrote it as Obamacare, passed it via budget reconciliation, and sent it “back” to the house.


Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the house voted in approval. Case closed.

where do tax bill originate?
Did the ACA ORGINATE FROM THE PLACE THAT IT WAS CONSTITUTIONAL MANDATE TO START FROM?

Does not matter. Both houses vote on it, approved it, and the president signed it.