What Is "Torture"?

[Politico]

People who have to ask what it is have no idea what torture is.

 

[cnm]

Unbelievable. There is The Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, part of which is incorporated pretty much whole into US Code. There is no mystery about it.

18 U.S. Code § 2340 - Definitions

18 U.S. Code 2340 - Definitions LII Legal Information Institute

As used in this chapter—

(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;

(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;

(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;

(C) the threat of imminent death; or

(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality;

Nor is there any doubt that the code was violated and offenders should be prosecuted. Neither is there doubt that the exceptional nation will make an exception for itself.

 

[The Rabbi]

Unbelievable. There is The Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, part of which is incorporated pretty much whole into US Code. There is no mystery about it.

18 U.S. Code § 2340 - Definitions

18 U.S. Code 2340 - Definitions LII Legal Information Institute

As used in this chapter—

(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;

(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;

(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;

(C) the threat of imminent death; or

(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality;

Nor is there any doubt that the code was violated and offenders should be prosecuted. Neither is there doubt that the exceptional nation will make an exception for itself.

There is clearly doubt whether it was violated. You obviously didnt bother to read the memos prepared for Bush.
Torture is watching self righteous twats praddle on about shit they know nothing about and are too lazy to find out.

 

[cnm]

I read them. There is no doubt it was violated. Only the architects and operators of the scheme deny it, everyone else needs no convincing, the legal opinions on which the Bush administration based its actions have been cast aside, the President of the United States has admitted the US tortured some folks.

Oh, it's not quite true only architects and operators of the scheme deny it, some hapless right wingers also cling to denial as they cannot accept they were lied to while they supported war crimes. Dead enders is their label I think.

As to lazyness, you hadn't even looked up the Code. Probably didn't know it existed.

 

[irosie91]

Unbelievable. There is The Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, part of which is incorporated pretty much whole into US Code. There is no mystery about it.

18 U.S. Code § 2340 - Definitions

18 U.S. Code 2340 - Definitions LII Legal Information Institute

As used in this chapter—

(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;

(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;

(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;

(C) the threat of imminent death; or

(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality;

Nor is there any doubt that the code was violated and offenders should be prosecuted. Neither is there doubt that the exceptional nation will make an exception for itself.

OK----so where was the intentional infliction of severe
physical pain? got some examples?--------mind altering
substances? got some examples? "i did not want to
get into my jail cell so a guard pushed me"<<<< I not severe
physical "PAIN"---------rectal infusion of fluids on a person
who is on a hunger strike?.. <<<< excellent care----and a lot
better than shoving a Naso gastric tube into the nostril and down into the stomach <<<THAT HURTS

I got experience with prisoners -----"THE HANDCUFFS WERE TOO TIGHT" ---for the record---there is a small
cutaneous nerve ----sensory thing for the lateral aspect of
the thumb that could be compressed thereby and cause numbness which recovers in a few weeks. I am still not sure that anyone was actually "TORTURED"

 

[ClosedCaption]

If what the CIA did to interrogate suspected terrorists isn't torture, does that make those methods of interrogation acceptable to use on US citizens?

Fallacy.
Totally different contexts.

So where is the line?

Nowhere....because despite all his dramatics to the contrary the Rabbi evidently doesn't really believe in the concept of American exceptionalism.

Just American Barbarism...he's all for that...just on the "bad guys" wink wink

 

[irosie91]

If what the CIA did to interrogate suspected terrorists isn't torture, does that make those methods of interrogation acceptable to use on US citizens?

Fallacy.
Totally different contexts.

So where is the line?

Nowhere....because despite all his dramatics to the contrary the Rabbi evidently doesn't really believe in the concept of American exceptionalism.

Just American Barbarism...he's all for that...just on the "bad guys" wink wink

I saw no evidence to support your statement

 

[cnm]

McCain explains about torture to the chickenhawks:

Senators McCain and Rockefeller on CIA Interrogations

Senators McCain Rockefeller CIA Interrogations Video C-SPAN.org

" I HAVE LONG BELIEVED SOME OF THESE PRACTICES AMOUNTED TO TORTURE AS A REASONABLE PERSON WOULD DEFINE IT, ESPECIALLY, BUT NOT ONLY THE PRACTICE OF WATERBOARDING, WHICH IS A MOCK EXECUTION AND AN EXQUISITE FORM OF TORTURE. ITS USE WAS SHAMEFUL AND UNNECESSARY,"

 

[cnm]

Fallacy.
Totally different contexts.

The context is an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control

I can see why you didn't bother looking up the definition, if you even knew it existed.

 

[ClosedCaption]

If what the CIA did to interrogate suspected terrorists isn't torture, does that make those methods of interrogation acceptable to use on US citizens?

Fallacy.
Totally different contexts.

So where is the line?

Nowhere....because despite all his dramatics to the contrary the Rabbi evidently doesn't really believe in the concept of American exceptionalism.

Just American Barbarism...he's all for that...just on the "bad guys" wink wink

I saw no evidence to support your statement

Of course you dont

These guys are obviously on vacation getting a tummy wrap treatment with cucumbers on their eyes. Thats what you see isnt it? I bet you even see a beach and palm trees

 

[irosie91]

McCain explains about torture to the chickenhawks:

Senators McCain and Rockefeller on CIA Interrogations

Senators McCain Rockefeller CIA Interrogations Video C-SPAN.org

" I HAVE LONG BELIEVED SOME OF THESE PRACTICES AMOUNTED TO TORTURE AS A REASONABLE PERSON WOULD DEFINE IT, ESPECIALLY, BUT NOT ONLY THE PRACTICE OF WATERBOARDING, WHICH IS A MOCK EXECUTION AND AN EXQUISITE FORM OF TORTURE. ITS USE WAS SHAMEFUL AND UNNECESSARY,"

I don't know what waterboarding is----I have an impression that a person is kinda underwater and cannot breathe for
awhile------feels like he is drowning. Not at all pleasant----
------the people who did it should pay a fine.

------in the course of undergoing anesthesia-----often the person is intubated whilst awake-----just as unpleasant. Asthma patients--------become so breathless that some actually die of an asthma attack.
The children now being subjected to chlorine gas bombs in the middle east die----over days----
of horrific asphyxiation---------There is lots of misery in the world -----sometimes those in charge of ending it----get
desperate against the people who are either responsible for it-----of know who is. They should pay a fine

 

[cnm]

OK----so where was the intentional infliction of severe
physical pain?

For gods' sakes.

(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;

Waterboarding is severe suffering.

(C) the threat of imminent death; or

Waterboarding is the threat of imminent death by drowning.

 

[cnm]

I don't know what waterboarding is

Then why are you arguing it's not torture?

 

[ClosedCaption]

I don't know what waterboarding is

Then why are you arguing it's not torture?

Dont know what waterboarding is but saying its definitely not torture? LOL!!!

 

[irosie91]

I don't know what waterboarding is

Then why are you arguing it's not torture?

Dont know what waterboarding is but saying its definitely not torture? LOL!!!

I did not say "it is definitely not torture"----jerk--------I have seen all kinds of TORTURE---------getting arrested is TORTURE--- being in jail is TORTURE Being the son
of an incarcerated father is TORTURE---------I have lots of
compassion of the people who experience it-----and also for
those put in the position of having to inflict it. I have dealt
with both sides. Being shot by a cop is-------horrific----being
the mother of a son shot by the cops is horrific. Being the
cop who did it-----is horrific. I have seen the situation from -
the dead guy with the bullet in the brain----the screaming
mother ------and the devastated cop divested of his gun and
possibly his career.

I am a bit mystified by the "drug" threat. If the administration of amytal (aka "truth serum" ) is TORTURE---
then the use of a lie detector test should be considered
TORTURE too. If a therapeutic enema is TORTURE----
then my mom should be executed------she brought up five
kids-------with the help of some kind of "family medical care" tome written sometime in 1925---------she managed well enough-----we all lived----

 

[cnm]

getting arrested is TORTURE--- being in jail is TORTURE Being the son
of an incarcerated father is TORTURE

None of those cases fit the US Code definition of torture which I provided. What's going on here, don't words mean things?

 

[ClosedCaption]

This thread is torture

 

[The Rabbi]

I read them. There is no doubt it was violated. Only the architects and operators of the scheme deny it, everyone else needs no convincing, the legal opinions on which the Bush administration based its actions have been cast aside, the President of the United States has admitted the US tortured some folks.

Oh, it's not quite true only architects and operators of the scheme deny it, some hapless right wingers also cling to denial as they cannot accept they were lied to while they supported war crimes. Dead enders is their label I think.

As to lazyness, you hadn't even looked up the Code. Probably didn't know it existed.

So your argument is "Im right, they're wrong, they suck"? Seriously?
Of course I knew it existed, dumbshit. I posted the memos which reference the statute.
Another cockgobbler who thinks he's hot shit.

 

[cnm]

It's hard to believe the legal definition wasn't fronted up in the first post.

 

[The Rabbi]

OK----so where was the intentional infliction of severe
physical pain?

For gods' sakes.

(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;

Waterboarding is severe suffering.

(C) the threat of imminent death; or

Waterboarding is the threat of imminent death by drowning.

Waterboarding is not severe suffering. Had you bothered to read the memos or even part of them you might understand the distinction between severe suffering and suffering.
Waterboarding is also not the imminent threat of death, esp as no one has died from it.
You're just racking up the shit points here, arent you?