What is your background/interest in the Middle East?

[JStone]

Jstone -

You claimed Britain invented the word Palestine here:

The British re-invented the word palestine during the British Mandate, which was invented by the Romans to call Israel.

You were proven wrong, because both the Ottoman Empire and the League of Nations used the term 'Palestine' prior to Britain receiving the mandate.

And you wonder why I do not believe you are a legitimate poster?

Repeating the same mistake doesn't make you correct, it merely shows your own self-defeat.

Eminent Middle East Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East"

The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying with the larger province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1922-1948]

 

[Saigon]

Jstone -

I do not believe you are a legitimate poster.

I think you are a sock puppet looking for attention, and I think you post material here you know to be wrong on purpose. Maybe you're really a pro-Palestinian troll, who knows.

But like I said yesterday - anytime I see a poster who has never been within 1,000 kms of the ME taking a poster who lives in the ME what it is like - I think we're either dealing with a sock puppet or a child.

I'll put you on ignore as a result.

 

[High_Gravity]

I was in the US Air Force for 7 years, I deployed to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and I also spent time in Bahrain, the UAE, Qatar, Iraq and 2 stops to Turkey, just in the airport there though. I also was in Cyprus in Larnaka and Nicossia.

Cool!

Turkey is an amazing country to travel in (it's my base when I work in the Middle East), but the airport might not be the best part to see!

I haven't travelled in the Gulf, but am interested to hear your experiences there.

Bahrain and the UAE were probably the more modern countries I been to there, they allow drinking, they have night clubs, pretty good looking women and the restaurants there were great, I actually really started liking Middle Eastern and Persian food when I was over in those countries. Kuwait was more conversative than Bahrain and the UAE, no drinking, no nigh clubs and not so many restaurants, even though things have changed recently, now in Kuwait they have Starbucks on every corner just like the US, as well as Sushi restaurants, I was introduced to the chicken shawarma in Kuwait, the Military base would order in chicken shawarmas from a place downtown once a week during the lunch, I would always look forward to that. Saudi Arabia was the most conservative place out of all the countries I visited in the region, women cannot drive and are always covered, in fact I maybe only saw 1 or 2 women, they made sure to keep their women away from us yankees. A friend of mine scored a bottle of home made gin from a Philipino contractor, I was 19 at the time but we got hammered, I had a terrible hang over but I had to go to work, I couldn't admit to drinking in a country that doesn't allow alcohol, god it was a horrible day, I threw up like 3 times that day during work.

 

[Saigon]

Bahrain and the UAE were probably the more modern countries I been to there, they allow drinking, they have night clubs, pretty good looking women and the restaurants there were great, I actually really started liking Middle Eastern and Persian food when I was over in those countries. Kuwait was more conversative than Bahrain and the UAE, no drinking, no nigh clubs and not so many restaurants, even though things have changed recently, now in Kuwait they have Starbucks on every corner just like the US, as well as Sushi restaurants, I was introduced to the chicken shawarma in Kuwait, the Military base would order in chicken shawarmas from a place downtown once a week during the lunch, I would always look forward to that. Saudi Arabia was the most conservative place out of all the countries I visited in the region, women cannot drive and are always covered, in fact I maybe only saw 1 or 2 women, they made sure to keep their women away from us yankees. A friend of mine scored a bottle of home made gin from a Philipino contractor, I was 19 at the time but we got hammered, I had a terrible hang over but I had to go to work, I couldn't admit to drinking in a country that doesn't allow alcohol, god it was a horrible day, I threw up like 3 times that day during work.

I love Muslim countries where you can drink!!

Lebanon is amazing for this - great bars there. Also Turkey is very open, and usually I've been able to get a beer most places across the Islamic world. (Though sometimes in Jakarta they serve it in a frosted glass, so it looks like it could be coke or something!)

Chicken shwarme is amazing - we used to live on it in Israel. But that said - I made my wife eat one on her first day in Israel, and it took her 2 weeks to stop shitting....!!!

I haven't been to Saudi, and doubt I'll go now....travel in places like that is more of an experience than fun, but it is an experience!

 

[JStone]

Jstone -

I do not believe you are a legitimate poster.

I think you are a sock puppet looking for attention, and I think you post material here you know to be wrong on purpose. Maybe you're really a pro-Palestinian troll, who knows.

But like I said yesterday - anytime I see a poster who has never been within 1,000 kms of the ME taking a poster who lives in the ME what it is like - I think we're either dealing with a sock puppet or a child.

I'll put you on ignore as a result.

You lost the debate, as usual. Run along.

Cambridge University Press

In Ottoman times, no political entity called Palestine existed. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.
Palestine Boundaries 1833–1947 - Cambridge Archive Editions

Encyclopedia of the Ottoman Empire...

Palestine did not exist in the geographical imagination of the Ottomans...[Before modern Israel], Jews referred to the territory as Eretz Yisrael, the land of Israel. Throughout the Ottoman period, pilgrims and clergy from both religious traditions visited what they considered the "Holy Land" following a route from the port of Jaffa to Jerusalem.

For most of the Ottoman period, "Palestine" was administered as a set of sub-provinces of Damascus...that formed separate political districts. With the return of direct political control from Istanbul in the 19th century, the northern region of "Palestine" was placed under the provincial governor of Beirut.
Amazon.com: Encyclopedia of the Ottoman Empire (9780816062591): Gabor Agoston, Bruce Masters: Books

Eminent Middle East Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East"

The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying with the larger province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1922-1948]

Bernard Lewis

For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole [of Syria]. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point
Amazon.com: Political Words and Ideas in Islam (9781558764248): Bernard Lewis: Books

 

[High_Gravity]

Bahrain and the UAE were probably the more modern countries I been to there, they allow drinking, they have night clubs, pretty good looking women and the restaurants there were great, I actually really started liking Middle Eastern and Persian food when I was over in those countries. Kuwait was more conversative than Bahrain and the UAE, no drinking, no nigh clubs and not so many restaurants, even though things have changed recently, now in Kuwait they have Starbucks on every corner just like the US, as well as Sushi restaurants, I was introduced to the chicken shawarma in Kuwait, the Military base would order in chicken shawarmas from a place downtown once a week during the lunch, I would always look forward to that. Saudi Arabia was the most conservative place out of all the countries I visited in the region, women cannot drive and are always covered, in fact I maybe only saw 1 or 2 women, they made sure to keep their women away from us yankees. A friend of mine scored a bottle of home made gin from a Philipino contractor, I was 19 at the time but we got hammered, I had a terrible hang over but I had to go to work, I couldn't admit to drinking in a country that doesn't allow alcohol, god it was a horrible day, I threw up like 3 times that day during work.

I love Muslim countries where you can drink!!

Lebanon is amazing for this - great bars there. Also Turkey is very open, and usually I've been able to get a beer most places across the Islamic world. (Though sometimes in Jakarta they serve it in a frosted glass, so it looks like it could be coke or something!)

Chicken shwarme is amazing - we used to live on it in Israel. But that said - I made my wife eat one on her first day in Israel, and it took her 2 weeks to stop shitting....!!!

I haven't been to Saudi, and doubt I'll go now....travel in places like that is more of an experience than fun, but it is an experience!

I heard the night life in Lebanon is fantastic but I wouldn't feel comfortable going there since the country is basically a Hezbollah strong hold right now, the women are also gorgeous as well. I haven't been to Iran but I got to meet many Iranians in California when I was living there for 3 years, some of the best people I ever met, Persian kababs with saffron rice and that yogurt mix they go with it, that is my favorite food.

 

[Saigon]

High Gravity -

Beirut is safe, and Bekaa is safe, but other than that I'd keep a very low profile.

I spent a bit of time in the deep south, around Sidon, Tyre and close in to the Israeli border, and it is tense, edgy stuff. I am not keen on having a 14-year-old kid pointing an AK at me. (and I'm not from Evil America!)

Gorgeous women, as you say, but I'd be careful about going to meet her Dad!

 

[High_Gravity]

High Gravity -

Beirut is safe, and Bekaa is safe, but other than that I'd keep a very low profile.

I spent a bit of time in the deep south, around Sidon, Tyre and close in to the Israeli border, and it is tense, edgy stuff. I am not keen on having a 14-year-old kid pointing an AK at me. (and I'm not from Evil America!)

Gorgeous women, as you say, but I'd be careful about going to meet her Dad!

After seeing the incidents of back packers getting picked up in Iran and American journalists getting taken in North Korea, I would only want to visit countries that were friendly towards Americans at the moment, I don't want to be "that guy" on the news tied up with rope begging the President to come and save me. I remember when I was in Kuwait and was riding in a vehicle with some Kuwaiti Military members, and they started joking about how far it was to the Iranian border, shit freaked me out.

 

[Saigon]

HG -

I do know that feeling....and I'll soon be on my way to Liberia, where I suspect I'll get to know it some more!

I really don't know what it is like for Americans in places like Beirut. I'd guess ok, because there is the American University of Beirut, and there are quite a lot of gringo lecturers and students there. That's a nice area to hang out, too. Nice bars and cafes around there.

But it would be good to hear from some Americans who are there...

As a Finn I'm fairly safe, because no one knows where the hell Finland is!

 

[High_Gravity]

HG -

I do know that feeling....and I'll soon be on my way to Liberia, where I suspect I'll get to know it some more!

I really don't know what it is like for Americans in places like Beirut. I'd guess ok, because there is the American University of Beirut, and there are quite a lot of gringo lecturers and students there. That's a nice area to hang out, too. Nice bars and cafes around there.

But it would be good to hear from some Americans who are there...

As a Finn I'm fairly safe, because no one knows where the hell Finland is!

I never been to Africa although I would like to, I heard Liberia is doing alot better in recent years. It would be interesting to hear from Americans living in Lebanon.

 

[Hossfly]

Bahrain and the UAE were probably the more modern countries I been to there, they allow drinking, they have night clubs, pretty good looking women and the restaurants there were great, I actually really started liking Middle Eastern and Persian food when I was over in those countries. Kuwait was more conversative than Bahrain and the UAE, no drinking, no nigh clubs and not so many restaurants, even though things have changed recently, now in Kuwait they have Starbucks on every corner just like the US, as well as Sushi restaurants, I was introduced to the chicken shawarma in Kuwait, the Military base would order in chicken shawarmas from a place downtown once a week during the lunch, I would always look forward to that. Saudi Arabia was the most conservative place out of all the countries I visited in the region, women cannot drive and are always covered, in fact I maybe only saw 1 or 2 women, they made sure to keep their women away from us yankees. A friend of mine scored a bottle of home made gin from a Philipino contractor, I was 19 at the time but we got hammered, I had a terrible hang over but I had to go to work, I couldn't admit to drinking in a country that doesn't allow alcohol, god it was a horrible day, I threw up like 3 times that day during work.

I love Muslim countries where you can drink!!

Lebanon is amazing for this - great bars there. Also Turkey is very open, and usually I've been able to get a beer most places across the Islamic world. (Though sometimes in Jakarta they serve it in a frosted glass, so it looks like it could be coke or something!)

Chicken shwarme is amazing - we used to live on it in Israel. But that said - I made my wife eat one on her first day in Israel, and it took her 2 weeks to stop shitting....!!!

I haven't been to Saudi, and doubt I'll go now....travel in places like that is more of an experience than fun, but it is an experience!

I could make a list of the places in the world I have experienced the Mexican two-step, but that said............. most pro-Israeli/Zionist posters here were educated in the school of hard knocks, not some party school in Southern California. Got their degree in the language arts by growing up with the lingo or going to DLI in Monterrey or Fort Bliss,TX. Experience was gained by life's experiences,by working in the oil fields, as construction workers or the military. Not by living in a yeshiva giving tea parties and teaching Sunday school. Or by 'identifying' with the "Freedom Fighters', joining in their protests and rock slinging. And becoming a self-proclaimed Middle East Expert. How about giving us a litany of your accomplishments before you continue to belittle your betters. Either fish or cut bait or as you so succinctly put it; shit or get off the pot. Hokay?

 

[Saigon]

I'm excited about Liberia....but also a little anxious. You know how it is, I'm sure!!

I'm going to some very, very remote areas, crossing through the jungle from Sierra Leone...and then fly on to Benin from Monrovia.

I'll try and log in from there if I can find WiFi!

 

[High_Gravity]

I'm excited about Liberia....but also a little anxious. You know how it is, I'm sure!!

I'm going to some very, very remote areas, crossing through the jungle from Sierra Leone...and then fly on to Benin from Monrovia.

I'll try and log in from there if I can find WiFi!

Be careful out there and be sure you get your vaccinations up to date.

 

[Hossfly]

HG -

I do know that feeling....and I'll soon be on my way to Liberia, where I suspect I'll get to know it some more!

I really don't know what it is like for Americans in places like Beirut. I'd guess ok, because there is the American University of Beirut, and there are quite a lot of gringo lecturers and students there. That's a nice area to hang out, too. Nice bars and cafes around there.

But it would be good to hear from some Americans who are there...

As a Finn I'm fairly safe, because no one knows where the hell Finland is!

Suomi Finland (SF) or as my ol'buddy Erik Jensen (a Finn) used to say-"Soviet Finland."

 

[Saigon]

Hoss -

Finland was very Sovietized (in a sense) in the 1970s...when we gifted the world term Finlandisation to decribe colonialism by diplomacy. But that all ended long before the Berlin Wall came down.

We have a conservative government here now, and by most standards are fairly damn lucky. Except with weather.

 

[JStone]

JStone & Roudy -

Both the League of Nations and the Ottoman Empire used the term "Palestine".

JStone - surprsingly enough, the term 'Syria' was used to cover 'Syria'. The term 'Palestine' ws used to describe 'Palestine'. Nice lie, though. I'm sure you were almost fooled yourself.

I'd be happy to recommend 2 or 3 excellent books on this topic to anyone genuinely interested in the topic.

The League of Nations called it Palestine because it was already called Palestine.

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Cambridge University Press

In Ottoman times, no political entity called Palestine existed. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.
Palestine Boundaries 1833–1947 - Cambridge Archive Editions

Encyclopedia of the Ottoman Empire...

Palestine did not exist in the geographical imagination of the Ottomans...[Before modern Israel], Jews referred to the territory as Eretz Yisrael, the land of Israel. Throughout the Ottoman period, pilgrims and clergy from both religious traditions visited what they considered the "Holy Land" following a route from the port of Jaffa to Jerusalem.

For most of the Ottoman period, "Palestine" was administered as a set of sub-provinces of Damascus...that formed separate political districts. With the return of direct political control from Istanbul in the 19th century, the northern region of "Palestine" was placed under the provincial governor of Beirut.
Amazon.com: Encyclopedia of the Ottoman Empire (9780816062591): Gabor Agoston, Bruce Masters: Books

Eminent Middle East Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East"

The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying with the larger province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1922-1948]

Bernard Lewis

For Arabs, the term Palestine was unacceptable. For Muslims it was alien and irrelevant but not abhorrent in the same way as it was to Jews. The main objection for them was that it seemed to assert a separate entity which politically conscious Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere denied. For them there was no such thing as a country called Palestine. The region which the British called Palestine was merely a separated part of a larger whole [of Syria]. For a long time organized and articulate Arab political opinion was virtually unanimous on this point
Amazon.com: Political Words and Ideas in Islam (9781558764248): Bernard Lewis: Books

 

[Saigon]

JStone -

This message is hidden because JStone is on your ignore list.

Though shalt sock puppet no more!

 

[JStone]

JStone -

This message is hidden because JStone is on your ignore list.

Though shalt sock puppet no more!

 

[P F Tinmore]

JStone -

This message is hidden because JStone is on your ignore list.

Though shalt sock puppet no more!

Amen

 

[JStone]

JStone -

This message is hidden because JStone is on your ignore list.

Though shalt sock puppet no more!

Amen

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