What objection can there be to solving simple poverty in a market friendly manner?

[danielpalos]

No, it is not the point. The natural rate of unemployment is around 4%. So 96% of the working population has a job, despite there being no requirement for an employer to hire them.

You have to make yourself attractive to the employer.

We are still talking about millions of persons. We would not need an endless war on poverty if what you claim is true. Why do we have any homeless problems or right wingers complaining about taxes if it is so easy to lift yourselves up from low wage jobs that make you complain about taxes?

Why can't the left wingers solve homelessness in their own states? Why is homelessness more prominent in left winger states?

That topic was actually covered in this thread in prior pages. First, States can't print their own money and second, red States simply change the way poverty and homelessness are counted to make it seem like they have lower numbers of homeless.

You are incorrect on how the count, the homeless issue is greater in California, Oregon and Washington. Please keep up, you just like to avoid the hard cold facts because they hurt you ideology.

Not at all. Right wingers have no facts and merely believe they are Right, because in right wing fantasy y'all can Always be Right. You need a link. I provided a link that claims what I stated.

You and your right BS is getting old, your blanket statements are moronic at best. It doesn’t advance anything. As far as your homeless BS, 8 of the top 9 areas in homelessness are heavy blue states.
Homelessness in the US: These 9 states have the worst crises. These are numbers from the fed, not by state agencies. Spare me your BS.

Blanket statements by right wingers are worse.

Blue States tend to have better benefits. Red States simply try to criminalize poverty.

Homelessness is growing at an alarming rate locally and nationally, and many cities’ solution to the crisis is to criminalize poverty by passing constitutionally dubious laws crafted to harass the homeless. Sadly, Memphis is no exception to this. Such efforts are not only inhumane and immoral, but have been legally challenged as violations of the First, Eighth and Fourteenth Amendments. More to the point, these efforts are ineffective, counterproductive and fiscally irresponsible.--https://midsouthpeace.org/the-issues/homelessness-and-poverty/

 

[danielpalos]

Part of your "Great Plan" is to pay unemployment compensation equal to at least $14 an hour. You have said this clearly.

So what? You make it seem like right wingers don't really understand how free market Capitalism works and merely parrot right wing dogma.
Capitalism, What is That sayeth the right wing.

Unemployment compensation at fourteen dollars an hour means what to a Capitalist who needs to attract Labor to achieve their profit goals?

First of all, it means more than $14 an hour was taken from the tax paying worker who earned it. The system used to take the money from the one who earned it and give it to the one who did nothing for it costs dollars to operate. So you have one group with X amount of dollars to add to the local economy, and one group with X plus expenses amount taken from their income (less to spend).

You omit that anyone circulating capital even those on unemployment compensation pay general taxes and contribute the multiplier, which is two in the case of unemployment compensation. That means, that for every one dollar spent on unemployment compensation two dollars of economic activity are generated. Somebody has to make a profit.

which is two in the case of unemployment compensation.

Which is less than one in the case of paying unlimited unemployment compensation to people who'll never work.

Typical right wingers simply making up their own facts. Show us any study which claims it. Link or it is just a right winger typing on the Internet, like usual.

You're a right winger? I never would have guessed.

You must be a right winger. Projection is what y'all are best at.

 

[WinterBorn]

Part of your "Great Plan" is to pay unemployment compensation equal to at least $14 an hour. You have said this clearly.

So what? You make it seem like right wingers don't really understand how free market Capitalism works and merely parrot right wing dogma.
Capitalism, What is That sayeth the right wing.

Unemployment compensation at fourteen dollars an hour means what to a Capitalist who needs to attract Labor to achieve their profit goals?

First of all, it means more than $14 an hour was taken from the tax paying worker who earned it. The system used to take the money from the one who earned it and give it to the one who did nothing for it costs dollars to operate. So you have one group with X amount of dollars to add to the local economy, and one group with X plus expenses amount taken from their income (less to spend).

You omit that anyone circulating capital even those on unemployment compensation pay general taxes and contribute the multiplier, which is two in the case of unemployment compensation. That means, that for every one dollar spent on unemployment compensation two dollars of economic activity are generated. Somebody has to make a profit.

You keep quoting the multiplier effect of UC over welfare. And yet, you are advocating removing the differences, ie using tax dollars, granting income for everyone without a job ect.

Someone is still having the money the unemployed receive taken from their paycheck.

 

[WinterBorn]

And then the employers will fire the liars and hypocrites. Then you can get hired, unless you are a liar or a hypocrite. Should state pay for liars lying or for hypocrites?

Maybe in right wing fantasy. In reality, cronies curry favor.

So in reality, you are talking about lying cronies and hypocrites?

Perhaps you could get a job and curry a little favor for yourself. Better than demanding people work hard for the money you get for free.

No employer is required to hire anyone not even in a Right to Work State.

No, they are not. But employers hire people every day. Aside from the pandemic lockdown, the employers in the US hire the overwhelming majority of the population.

In order to get a job, especially a better job, you try to curry the favor of the employer. Not being a suckup, but by doing what they need to make their business better.

 

[WinterBorn]

Yes, they would be paid by lowering my net income, which I earned. You keep bouncing back and forth between what helps the poor and what helps the economy.

You miss the point that your net income would be higher even with any potential taxes taken out. And, even those on unemployment compensation pay general taxes which reduces their net income.

My net income would not be higher by taking taxes out to give to someone else who refuses to work.

Yes, it would be higher than it is now since unemployment compensation could be providing an upward pressure wages. Simply doubling the minimum wage is sufficient proof. An employee making fifteen dollars an hour simply makes more money that at the current minimum wage and need not complain about taxes.

I have not been paid minimum wage in 40 years. If you raise minimum wages, the entire country's pay does not go up by that amount.

But my taxes go up to cover the lazy asses who want to sit at home and collect my tax dollars for doing nothing.

Wages will have an upward pressure since labor will be using those metrics to consider participation in the market for labor.
Your taxes will not go up since even those on unemployment compensation will be paying taxes not just you.

That is a lie. Somehow you think that paying thousands of people out of the tax coffers will create so much more taxes that the original workers will not pay more taxes? That is delusional.

Plus, look at the taxes on people making less. With Earned Income Credit and such, they actually pay very little in income taxes.

 

[WinterBorn]

He keeps getting himself caught on that one. Bottom line, he doesn't want anyone else applying means testing, just him.

Earned income from gainful employment usually has to be reported for unemployment compensation purposes and is current practice now.

And if people do not report their income from gainful employment, such as those who are paid cash? What happens to them in the new plan of yours?

Why would they bother working if they could be lazy, and do nothing? And, it would depend on whether or not they get caught eventually. Fraud is still illegal and only hypocritical illegals whine about less fortunate illegals.

It bothers me because I am working hard and I am separated from my family to earn the money they get handed for free.

Simply quit and go on unemployment. No one is making you work. Stop creating problems for others due to Your lack of moral fortitude. I am sure there are plenty of other people who would love to make what you make and complain less about taxes.

I have the moral fortitude to work for a living and support myself. You should try it.

 

[WinterBorn]

No you wouldn't have. You would have made money with practice accounts, which pays you zero dollars. You would have had to get a job and earn the $50,000 to put into the market in order to have made anything. And you would have had to make far more than minimum wage to be able to save $50k.

That is why I don't take you very seriously in our arguments. I was using real money but did not have deep (margin) pockets and did not get it right the first time.

It is a lot more simple with even just fifty thousand dollars. Why does anyone with enough money even bother to complain about taxes when it is relative simply to make more money?

Practice accounts do not use real money.

 

[danielpalos]

No, they are not. But employers hire people every day. Aside from the pandemic lockdown, the employers in the US hire the overwhelming majority of the population.

In order to get a job, especially a better job, you try to curry the favor of the employer. Not being a suckup, but by doing what they need to make their business better.

Capitalism still has a natural rate of unemployment and why is there any homelessness in Right to Work States?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Part of your "Great Plan" is to pay unemployment compensation equal to at least $14 an hour. You have said this clearly.

So what? You make it seem like right wingers don't really understand how free market Capitalism works and merely parrot right wing dogma.
Capitalism, What is That sayeth the right wing.

Unemployment compensation at fourteen dollars an hour means what to a Capitalist who needs to attract Labor to achieve their profit goals?

First of all, it means more than $14 an hour was taken from the tax paying worker who earned it. The system used to take the money from the one who earned it and give it to the one who did nothing for it costs dollars to operate. So you have one group with X amount of dollars to add to the local economy, and one group with X plus expenses amount taken from their income (less to spend).

You omit that anyone circulating capital even those on unemployment compensation pay general taxes and contribute the multiplier, which is two in the case of unemployment compensation. That means, that for every one dollar spent on unemployment compensation two dollars of economic activity are generated. Somebody has to make a profit.

which is two in the case of unemployment compensation.

Which is less than one in the case of paying unlimited unemployment compensation to people who'll never work.

Typical right wingers simply making up their own facts. Show us any study which claims it. Link or it is just a right winger typing on the Internet, like usual.

You're a right winger? I never would have guessed.

You must be a right winger. Projection is what y'all are best at.

Fallacy.

 

[danielpalos]

That is a lie. Somehow you think that paying thousands of people out of the tax coffers will create so much more taxes that the original workers will not pay more taxes? That is delusional.

Plus, look at the taxes on people making less. With Earned Income Credit and such, they actually pay very little in income taxes.

Not at all. It is merely your lack of understanding that is delusional. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage can generate over nine times more than can the minimum wage at 7.25 due to our system of progressive taxation. A nine to one ratio. More taxes will be generated simply because people making more will qualify for less earned income tax credit.

 

[danielpalos]

I have the moral fortitude to work for a living and support myself. You should try it.

lol. I have done it and did not complain about taxes like right wingers tend to do.

 

[Papageorgio]

There are no rules that say you can't have other income coming in if you become unemployed. So you are wanting to add rules.

Earned income reduces the benefit amount.

We aren’t talking about earned income and you know it. We are talking passive income, like SSI, 401K and pensions. So, earned income would lower it your unemployment, however passive income does not and that is what I have, so I should get 100% of the unemployment. Funny how you only want some to get money without working but with others you show your bigotry.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes, they would be paid by lowering my net income, which I earned. You keep bouncing back and forth between what helps the poor and what helps the economy.

You miss the point that your net income would be higher even with any potential taxes taken out. And, even those on unemployment compensation pay general taxes which reduces their net income.

My net income would not be higher by taking taxes out to give to someone else who refuses to work.

Yes, it would be higher than it is now since unemployment compensation could be providing an upward pressure wages. Simply doubling the minimum wage is sufficient proof. An employee making fifteen dollars an hour simply makes more money that at the current minimum wage and need not complain about taxes.

I have not been paid minimum wage in 40 years. If you raise minimum wages, the entire country's pay does not go up by that amount.

But my taxes go up to cover the lazy asses who want to sit at home and collect my tax dollars for doing nothing.

Wages will have an upward pressure since labor will be using those metrics to consider participation in the market for labor.
Your taxes will not go up since even those on unemployment compensation will be paying taxes not just you.

That is a lie. Somehow you think that paying thousands of people out of the tax coffers will create so much more taxes that the original workers will not pay more taxes? That is delusional.

Plus, look at the taxes on people making less. With Earned Income Credit and such, they actually pay very little in income taxes.

The multiplier for paying bums is very powerful!

 

[danielpalos]

No you wouldn't have. You would have made money with practice accounts, which pays you zero dollars. You would have had to get a job and earn the $50,000 to put into the market in order to have made anything. And you would have had to make far more than minimum wage to be able to save $50k.

That is why I don't take you very seriously in our arguments. I was using real money but did not have deep (margin) pockets and did not get it right the first time.

It is a lot more simple with even just fifty thousand dollars. Why does anyone with enough money even bother to complain about taxes when it is relative simply to make more money?

Practice accounts do not use real money.

If you paid more attention to the arguments presented you would have understood that I used a practice account with a fifty thousand dollar practice account. I used real money for the real trades. And, a fifty thousand dollar (practice) account for margin makes a world of difference. It almost seems difficult to not make money when you have enough money.

 

[danielpalos]

There are no rules that say you can't have other income coming in if you become unemployed. So you are wanting to add rules.

Earned income reduces the benefit amount.

We aren’t talking about earned income and you know it. We are talking passive income, like SSI, 401K and pensions. So, earned income would lower it your unemployment, however passive income does not and that is what I have, so I should get 100% of the unemployment. Funny how you only want some to get money without working but with others you show your bigotry.

Any income should should reduce the benefit amount to keep it simple; no need to encourage greed with a social policy.

 

[danielpalos]

Yes, they would be paid by lowering my net income, which I earned. You keep bouncing back and forth between what helps the poor and what helps the economy.

You miss the point that your net income would be higher even with any potential taxes taken out. And, even those on unemployment compensation pay general taxes which reduces their net income.

My net income would not be higher by taking taxes out to give to someone else who refuses to work.

Yes, it would be higher than it is now since unemployment compensation could be providing an upward pressure wages. Simply doubling the minimum wage is sufficient proof. An employee making fifteen dollars an hour simply makes more money that at the current minimum wage and need not complain about taxes.

I have not been paid minimum wage in 40 years. If you raise minimum wages, the entire country's pay does not go up by that amount.

But my taxes go up to cover the lazy asses who want to sit at home and collect my tax dollars for doing nothing.

Wages will have an upward pressure since labor will be using those metrics to consider participation in the market for labor.
Your taxes will not go up since even those on unemployment compensation will be paying taxes not just you.

That is a lie. Somehow you think that paying thousands of people out of the tax coffers will create so much more taxes that the original workers will not pay more taxes? That is delusional.

Plus, look at the taxes on people making less. With Earned Income Credit and such, they actually pay very little in income taxes.

The multiplier for paying bums is very powerful!

The goodness due to faithfulness in the execution of the uniform operation of a general law.

 

[WinterBorn]

No, they are not. But employers hire people every day. Aside from the pandemic lockdown, the employers in the US hire the overwhelming majority of the population.

In order to get a job, especially a better job, you try to curry the favor of the employer. Not being a suckup, but by doing what they need to make their business better.

Capitalism still has a natural rate of unemployment and why is there any homelessness in Right to Work States?

Changing direction yet again.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The goodness due to faithfulness in the execution of the uniform operation of a general law.

Derp Durr DERP DURR!!!

 

[danielpalos]

No, they are not. But employers hire people every day. Aside from the pandemic lockdown, the employers in the US hire the overwhelming majority of the population.

In order to get a job, especially a better job, you try to curry the favor of the employer. Not being a suckup, but by doing what they need to make their business better.

Capitalism still has a natural rate of unemployment and why is there any homelessness in Right to Work States?

Changing direction yet again.

Not at all. You are the one claiming anyone should be able to get a job. We should have no homeless problem in any Right to Work State.

 

[danielpalos]

The goodness due to faithfulness in the execution of the uniform operation of a general law.

Derp Durr DERP DURR!!!

A right winger typing on the Internet. How customary and usual for the right wing.