What should abortion laws be?

[Cecilie1200]

So it's better to kill children than to have them in the foster care system? I also can't personally adopt all the children starving in the third world. Should we go put a bullet in each of their heads, because death is better than an imperfect life?

I have a modest proposal...

Someone should have told you death merchants that he was KIDDING when he wrote that. It was SATIRE.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's exactly the same, retard.

JD's argument:
It is impossible to stop x in all instances,
therefore x should not be illegal

Close but not quite

It's impossible to stop X
When X is illegal it becomes unsanitary and unsafe for the consumer
When X is legal it reaches an acceptable level of safety
X should be legal.

Try plugging in rape for that.

That's not what she argued, but let's examine your argument.

Performing liposuction in your garage with no medical training while presenting yourself as a doctor cannot be stopped in all instances. If someone really wants to do it, they can.

If this is illegal, it remains unsafe, just as backalley abortions are illegal regardless of whether there is a leag alternative or not.

Therefore, backalley abortions and backalley liposuction should both be legal.




Care to try again?

Or perhaps we could just insert some reality into the argument. It wasn't legalization that improved the safety of abortion. It was the increased usage of antibiotics to combat the infections that were the number one cause of death in both abortions AND childbirth. Since the vast majority of abortions prior to Roe were performed by licensed physicians and for a very long time abortion activists refused to allow any regulation or oversight of abortion clinics, resulting in some truly appalling sanitary conditions, there is simply no causal link between legalization and decrease of deaths.

Logic also requires that your premise be based in truth.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I wonder whether FT support making it legal to give FT an unwanted lobotomy while sodomizing him, since doing it in my garage would be unsanitary but, we could do it in a cleanroom if it were legal.

 

[rdean]

The title of the thread is:

What should abortion laws be?

There are three groups who need to be satisfied.

1. the women

2. the child

3. the Christians

No one has covered all three bases. Well, almost no one.

Err no the 3 groups would be

the women

the child

Right and Wrong

(ok so that may technically be 4 groups)

These christian political groups have tried to get into everyone else's business enough as it is, why should they be considered?

The reality is that more than 70% of the US identifies itself as Christian. They are the reason for laws against abortion. For the discrimination against gays. For the "war on Science". For the fight to keep mysticism out of public schools.
There is a lot you can lay directly at their feet. Nothing will change until they are "appeased". And that is just more reality.

Right and wrong has NOTHING to do with "Christian Morality". People already wrote their laws and then claimed they come from their non existent god.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

The reality is that more than 70% of the US identifies itself as Christian. They are the reason for laws against abortion.

Yeah, because I don't exist and there are no other like me

For the discrimination against gays. For the "war on Science"

Not the subject of the thread

. For the fight to keep mysticism out of public schools.

Actually,. atheists are mostly behind that

 

[Contumacious]

Get a dictionary, Noah Webster.

From Merriam-Webster Online:

fetus - an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth

baby - an extremely young child

child - an unborn or recently born person; a son or daughter of human parents

Sure sounds to ME like different words for the same thing.

You are talking about entities that have the POTENTIAL to become human beings.

So why stop at the moment of conception, why not assign a police officer to every man to prevent them from jerking off and killing "babies"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

.

No, we are not talking about "potential human beings". We're talking about human beings. They're not suddenly, at some undefined later point, going to acquire human DNA. They already have it at the moment of conception. And by definition, they are already beings.

Being - 1 a : the quality or state of having existence b (1) : something conceivable as existing (2) : something that actually exists (3) : the totality of existing things c : conscious existence : life
2 : the qualities that constitute an existent thing : essence; especially : personality
3 : a living thing; especially : person

I am not even going to dignify that ignorant, "I was smoking in the boys' bathroom during biology class" argument about sperm somehow being equivalent to a separate organism by giving it an answer for the 243rd time since I joined this board. Go look up one of the other multiple times I have covered it. Better yet, take your uneducated self off to your local community college and enroll in a remedial biology class so you don't sound like such an utter and complete dumbfuck when you come on this board. I would be embarrassed to be evidencing such a complete ignorance of basic, junior-high level knowledge in public.

So why stop at the moment of conception, why not assign a police officer to every man to prevent them from jerking off and killing "babies"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

.

 

[Care4all]

You are talking about entities that have the POTENTIAL to become human beings.

So why stop at the moment of conception, why not assign a police officer to every man to prevent them from jerking off and killing "babies"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

.

No, we are not talking about "potential human beings". We're talking about human beings. They're not suddenly, at some undefined later point, going to acquire human DNA. They already have it at the moment of conception. And by definition, they are already beings.

Being - 1 a : the quality or state of having existence b (1) : something conceivable as existing (2) : something that actually exists (3) : the totality of existing things c : conscious existence : life
2 : the qualities that constitute an existent thing : essence; especially : personality
3 : a living thing; especially : person

I am not even going to dignify that ignorant, "I was smoking in the boys' bathroom during biology class" argument about sperm somehow being equivalent to a separate organism by giving it an answer for the 243rd time since I joined this board. Go look up one of the other multiple times I have covered it. Better yet, take your uneducated self off to your local community college and enroll in a remedial biology class so you don't sound like such an utter and complete dumbfuck when you come on this board. I would be embarrassed to be evidencing such a complete ignorance of basic, junior-high level knowledge in public.

So why stop at the moment of conception, why not assign a police officer to every man to prevent them from jerking off and killing "babies"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

.

she explained this already....?

sperm is not a baby or fetus....it takes 2, to tango....the sperm and egg, combined, to create a new living organism....

Sperm alone, is squat.... an egg alone, is squat doodley as well....

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Give up, Care, CumisLiscious doesn't care about such facts.

 

[Contumacious]

No, we are not talking about "potential human beings". We're talking about human beings. They're not suddenly, at some undefined later point, going to acquire human DNA. They already have it at the moment of conception. And by definition, they are already beings.

Being - 1 a : the quality or state of having existence b (1) : something conceivable as existing (2) : something that actually exists (3) : the totality of existing things c : conscious existence : life
2 : the qualities that constitute an existent thing : essence; especially : personality
3 : a living thing; especially : person

I am not even going to dignify that ignorant, "I was smoking in the boys' bathroom during biology class" argument about sperm somehow being equivalent to a separate organism by giving it an answer for the 243rd time since I joined this board. Go look up one of the other multiple times I have covered it. Better yet, take your uneducated self off to your local community college and enroll in a remedial biology class so you don't sound like such an utter and complete dumbfuck when you come on this board. I would be embarrassed to be evidencing such a complete ignorance of basic, junior-high level knowledge in public.

So why stop at the moment of conception, why not assign a police officer to every man to prevent them from jerking off and killing "babies"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

.

she explained this already....?

sperm is not a baby or fetus....it takes 2, to tango....the sperm and egg, combined, to create a new living organism....

Sperm alone, is squat.... an egg alone, is squat doodley as well....

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Very interrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrresting.

Are you saying that SPERMS are dead organisms?

Are you saying that the OVUM is a dead organism?

Are you saying that eliminating 50% of the matter required to create a fetus is immaterial?

Or are you REALLY saying that the moment of conception was ARBITRARILY selected in order to punish females for having sex?

.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

^^Wow... that's the most blatant misrepresentation and willful stupidity I've seen in a long time.^^

 

[rdean]

The reality is that more than 70% of the US identifies itself as Christian. They are the reason for laws against abortion.

Yeah, because I don't exist and there are no other like me

For the discrimination against gays. For the "war on Science"

Not the subject of the thread

. For the fight to keep mysticism out of public schools.

Actually,. atheists are mostly behind that

I get so tired of having to state the obvious. If the religious didn't keep trying to push idiot mysticism onto unsuspecting American children, Atheists wouldn't have to fight to keep it out of public schools. If the religious want to indoctrinate and contaminate their own children with crappy supernatural beliefs, fine, but they need to do it on their own time leave children not theirs, alone.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Their mysticism was in the schools in the first place. It was atheists who fought to get it out

 

[Cecilie1200]

The title of the thread is:

What should abortion laws be?

There are three groups who need to be satisfied.

1. the women

2. the child

3. the Christians

No one has covered all three bases. Well, almost no one.

Err no the 3 groups would be

the women

the child

Right and Wrong

(ok so that may technically be 4 groups)

These christian political groups have tried to get into everyone else's business enough as it is, why should they be considered?

The reality is that more than 70% of the US identifies itself as Christian. They are the reason for laws against abortion. For the discrimination against gays. For the "war on Science". For the fight to keep mysticism out of public schools.
There is a lot you can lay directly at their feet. Nothing will change until they are "appeased". And that is just more reality.

Right and wrong has NOTHING to do with "Christian Morality". People already wrote their laws and then claimed they come from their non existent god.

This is not about your pathological hatred of Christians, so please take a pill and stop trying to shoehorn that into every discussion.

You can recite statistics until your little pinhead turns blue, and you STILL don't get to argue against the points you WISH people were making, instead of the ones they ARE making. If we're arguing that biology insists that a fetus is alive, then you don't get to argue against "God will smite you down for abortion!" Sorry, but that's how it goes when you converse with humans instead of the voices in your head.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You are talking about entities that have the POTENTIAL to become human beings.

So why stop at the moment of conception, why not assign a police officer to every man to prevent them from jerking off and killing "babies"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

.

No, we are not talking about "potential human beings". We're talking about human beings. They're not suddenly, at some undefined later point, going to acquire human DNA. They already have it at the moment of conception. And by definition, they are already beings.

Being - 1 a : the quality or state of having existence b (1) : something conceivable as existing (2) : something that actually exists (3) : the totality of existing things c : conscious existence : life
2 : the qualities that constitute an existent thing : essence; especially : personality
3 : a living thing; especially : person

I am not even going to dignify that ignorant, "I was smoking in the boys' bathroom during biology class" argument about sperm somehow being equivalent to a separate organism by giving it an answer for the 243rd time since I joined this board. Go look up one of the other multiple times I have covered it. Better yet, take your uneducated self off to your local community college and enroll in a remedial biology class so you don't sound like such an utter and complete dumbfuck when you come on this board. I would be embarrassed to be evidencing such a complete ignorance of basic, junior-high level knowledge in public.

So why stop at the moment of conception, why not assign a police officer to every man to prevent them from jerking off and killing "babies"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

.

You know what I do when ill-mannered children refuse to take "No" for an answer and scream and kick their feet? I ignore them.

You sound like a fool, and now you sound like a puerile fool. I won't contribute to either.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So why stop at the moment of conception, why not assign a police officer to every man to prevent them from jerking off and killing "babies"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

.

she explained this already....?

sperm is not a baby or fetus....it takes 2, to tango....the sperm and egg, combined, to create a new living organism....

Sperm alone, is squat.... an egg alone, is squat doodley as well....

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Very interrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrresting.

Are you saying that SPERMS are dead organisms?

Are you saying that the OVUM is a dead organism?

Are you saying that eliminating 50% of the matter required to create a fetus is immaterial?

Or are you REALLY saying that the moment of conception was ARBITRARILY selected in order to punish females for having sex?

.

Hey, guys, which post was it where I kindly and patiently deigned to explain cells, tissues, organs, and organisms to JD the Dog Girl? Maybe someone could just link that for this twit.

Or maybe he could just go over to JD's for an orgy with her Dobermans and stop bothering us altogether.

 

[Care4all]

So why stop at the moment of conception, why not assign a police officer to every man to prevent them from jerking off and killing "babies"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

.

she explained this already....?

sperm is not a baby or fetus....it takes 2, to tango....the sperm and egg, combined, to create a new living organism....

Sperm alone, is squat.... an egg alone, is squat doodley as well....

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Very interrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrresting.

Are you saying that SPERMS are dead organisms?

Are you saying that the OVUM is a dead organism?

Are you saying that eliminating 50% of the matter required to create a fetus is immaterial?

Or are you REALLY saying that the moment of conception was ARBITRARILY selected in order to punish females for having sex?

.

did you FAIL biology in high school??? is an unfertilized egg an organism? is sperm an organism?

I'd back out of this conversation if I were you....until you pick up a book or two.

 

[Father Time]

So it's better to kill children than to have them in the foster care system? I also can't personally adopt all the children starving in the third world. Should we go put a bullet in each of their heads, because death is better than an imperfect life?

I have a modest proposal...

Someone should have told you death merchants that he was KIDDING when he wrote that. It was SATIRE.

I never said it wasn't.

 

[Father Time]

It's exactly the same, retard.

JD's argument:
It is impossible to stop x in all instances,
therefore x should not be illegal

Close but not quite

It's impossible to stop X
When X is illegal it becomes unsanitary and unsafe for the consumer
When X is legal it reaches an acceptable level of safety
X should be legal.

Try plugging in rape for that.

That's not what she argued, but let's examine your argument.

Performing liposuction in your garage with no medical training while presenting yourself as a doctor cannot be stopped in all instances. If someone really wants to do it, they can.

If this is illegal, it remains unsafe, just as backalley abortions are illegal regardless of whether there is a leag alternative or not.

Therefore, backalley abortions and backalley liposuction should both be legal.




Care to try again?

Wow you're picky.

I thought you'd be smart enough to figure it out but

When things are legalized they can be held to safety standards they cannot be held to when they are illegal. See alcohol during prohibition vs after. That should've been given.

So when liposuction is illegal all you get are garage vacuum jobs whereas when it's legal they are extremely rare.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Close but not quite

It's impossible to stop X
When X is illegal it becomes unsanitary and unsafe for the consumer
When X is legal it reaches an acceptable level of safety
X should be legal.

Try plugging in rape for that.

That's not what she argued, but let's examine your argument.

Performing liposuction in your garage with no medical training while presenting yourself as a doctor cannot be stopped in all instances. If someone really wants to do it, they can.

If this is illegal, it remains unsafe, just as backalley abortions are illegal regardless of whether there is a leag alternative or not.

Therefore, backalley abortions and backalley liposuction should both be legal.




Care to try again?

Wow you're picky.

I thought you'd be smart enough to figure it out but

When things are legalized they can be held to safety standards they cannot be held to when they are illegal. That should've been given.

So when liposuction is illegal all you get are garage vacuum jobs whereas when it's legal they are extremely rare.

Except, of course, that the same abortion advocates who trumpeted the need for legalized abortion to protect the safety of women ALSO prevented abortion clinics from being held to any sort of safety standards for decades.

House OKs stricter abortion-clinic standards. | Goliath Business News

SESSION NOTEBOOK: Bill applies state safety standards to abortion clinics | Jacksonville.com

State Politics & Policy | Kansas House Committee Approves Abortion Clinic Safety Standard Bill - Kaisernetwork.org

Just to list a few reported instances.

What really amazes me after all this blather for decades about "protecting women", "back alley abortions", blah de fucking blah, what are they complaining about when they're required to actually protect their clients as much as your average oral surgeon would? "It would cost too much. You're trying to put us out of business by raising costs." As if that ever bothered the same people when imposing OSHA and ADA standards on other businesses. Are you telling us that business and money are more important than the lives and health of women? Hypocrites.

 

[Father Time]

I said can be not will be your mileage may vary (didn't know that though, thanks for the info).