Zone1 What to Do with Gaza?

[Hector12]

• 
  Legality of Occupation: The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, which began in 1967, is widely considered illegal under international law.

If Israeli leaders did not sign that so called "international law" is not binding on them. If they did sign, they should cross off their names.

Where was international law when Nasser threatened to destroy Israel in 1967?

 

[TruthNotBS]

The League of Nations DID have that right. They were the victors of WWI and until recently “to the victors went the spoils”. YOU may disagree, but those were the rules for almost all of human history. No one complains about the League stripping Germany of all its overseas possessions and giving them to Japan, France, Italy and the USA. Britain got the Mandate for the Mid-East and screwed it up. Plus the League never even attempted to force the Palestinians to leave, it just changed their overlords to first the Brits, then the Jews. The Palestinians decided to leave on their own at the orders of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to clear the battlefields to make it easier for the Muslim armies to exterminate the Jews. Many Palestinians stayed and are valued citizens of Israel with all the rights and duties of any other citizen. Muslims, Christians and Druze all serve in the IDF alongside Jews. Muslims have seats in the Knesset.

Yeah sure that makes a lot of sense. The Western League of Nations after a war that they started, decided to colonize Palestine and give half of the land to European Zionist racist Jews and the indigenous population just has to roll over and play dead, accepting the decision of Western colonizers.

Your claim that Zionist Jews didn't force the Arab Palestinian inhabitants out of their villages and into refugee camps and the city of Gaza, is false and not even accepted by most Israeli historians. Even Israeli academics admit that the Arab Palestinians were kicked out of their homes and lands and they continue to live under a brutal, Jewish apartheid state. AZ, I'm not responding to your lies to convince you of anything, I'm posting for the sake of others who are genuinely interested in the truth.

Israelis sing racist chants at Palestinians during 'Flag March' in Jerusalem​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

1. 
   Origins of Palestinian Refugee Camps: The establishment of Palestinian refugee camps in territories such as Judea and Samaria (West Bank) was not a result of actions by Jordan, but rather a direct consequence of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. These camps were set up by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) to accommodate Palestinian refugees who fled or were expelled during and after the conflict. This included the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight, as well as the aftermath of the Six-Day War in 1967. The argument that Jordan intentionally created these camps to segregate Palestinians is not supported by historical evidence.
2. UNRWA’s Role and Host Government Agreements: For a camp to be recognized by UNRWA, there must be an agreement between the host government and UNRWA governing the use of the camp. UNRWA does not have administrative or police powers over these camps; it simply provides services. This organization also provided relief to displaced Jewish persons in Israel until the Israeli government assumed responsibility in 1952. Therefore, the establishment and operation of these camps were under international auspices, not solely determined by Jordan or any other host country.
3. Jordan's Administrative Control and Citizenship: When Jordan administered the West Bank after 1950, residents were entitled to Jordanian citizenship. This did not include Palestinians from the Gaza Strip, who were under Egyptian domain. Following the 1967 war, those fleeing the Israeli-occupied West Bank were residents of Jordan, but those from Gaza were not. In 1988, when Jordan severed administrative ties with the West Bank, West Bank-origin individuals residing in Jordan retained their full citizenship rights, while those from Gaza remained as foreigners.
4. Forced Displacement of Palestinians: The UNRWA provides services for around 5.7 million Palestinian refugees, largely descendants of those forcibly displaced from their towns, villages, and cities in Palestine in 1948 and 1967, who ended up in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. This large-scale displacement was not a product of actions taken by Jordan but was a direct outcome of the conflicts in the region, particularly the 1948 and 1967 wars.

The Palestinians who are the indigenous inhabitants of the Holy Land, aren't going anywhere without a fight. The Israeli Zionist Jews aren't going to purge the land of Muslim and Christian Palestinians. No matter of cruelty will convince all Palestinians to leave the Holy Land.

Why did the UN set up refugee camps for muslims in Jordan?
Didn't they know that loser Palestinian muslims are loved by loser Jordanian Palestinian muslims? They're all brothers under Allah.

The UNRWA provides services for around 5.7 million Palestinian refugees,

After 70 years of Jewish genocide of the Palestinians, they drove their numbers from several hundred thousand in 1948 all the way down to 5.7 million?
Shit!
That's some really awful genocide.
If they keep that up, in 2093, there should be 70-90 million Palestinian refugees.
Just horrible!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, which began in 1967, is widely considered illegal under international law. This is primarily due to its prolonged nature, violations of the Palestinian right to self-determination, and acts of annexation.

They offered land for peace, several times.
The Loserstinians kept turning down the offers.
In 20 years, territory available for an Arab state will be the size of Lichtenstein.

 

[peacefan]

DMZ manned by U.S. Army.

and the Israelis can surely manage any DMZ created in their own region..?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

• 
  Legality of Occupation: The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, which began in 1967, is widely considered illegal under international law. This is primarily due to its prolonged nature, violations of the Palestinian right to self-determination, and acts of annexation. The United Nations General Assembly has repeatedly described the occupation as illegal, and international law scholars have echoed this view.
• Annexation and International Law: The annexation of territory through the use of force is explicitly illegal under international law. This principle applies to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories, including the West Bank and East Jerusalem. The occupation's nature, deemed as a form of annexation or territorial aggrandizement, is considered illegal. Israel's justification of the occupation as self-defense is heavily contested and does not align with the principles of international law regarding the use of force.
• Palestinian Self-Determination: The right of the Palestinian people to self-determination is internationally recognized. The sovereignty of the occupied Palestinian territories belongs to the Palestinian people, and international law mandates their freedom from occupation-imposed impediments to self-rule.
• Violation of Humanitarian and Human Rights Law: The occupation has also been associated with violations of international humanitarian law (IHL) and international human rights law (IHRL). These violations further aggravate the illegality of the occupation, as they are seen as acts of foreign domination, political subjugation, and economic exploitation.
• Temporary Nature of Occupation: Occupation law, a branch of IHL, suggests that occupation should be temporary. The prolonged nature of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, therefore, constitutes a violation of this principle. This prolonged occupation undermines the rule that sovereignty cannot derive from occupation.

Are you so dumb you don't remember that Israel left Gaza about 17 years ago? The were allowed self-determination but the so-called Palestinians have refused to accept a two-state solution every time it was offered. They annexed the territory by warfare. Just like every country has done for millennia. If they have sovereignty over their territory, why do they continue to shoot rockets from Gaza into Israel? What would you want to have done if Mexico or Canda did that to the United States?

 

[TruthNotBS]

Are you so dumb you don't remember that Israel left Gaza about 17 years ago? The were allowed self-determination but the so-called Palestinians have refused to accept a two-state solution every time it was offered. They annexed the territory by warfare. Just like every country has done for millennia. If they have sovereignty over their territory, why do they continue to shoot rockets from Gaza into Israel? What would you want to have done if Mexico or Canda did that to the United States?

Firstly, while it's true that Israel unilaterally disengaged from Gaza in 2005, removing all Israeli settlements and military presence, this action alone does not equate to granting "self-determination" to the people of Gaza. Self-determination implies not just physical autonomy but also the ability to govern and sustain oneself economically, politically, and socially. Since 2006, the Gaza Strip has been under a severe blockade imposed by Israel, severely restricting the movement of people and goods. This blockade has led to a humanitarian crisis, with significant impacts on health, water supply, and the economy in Gaza. Controlling a region's borders, airspace, and maritime access, as Israel does with Gaza, is not indicative of allowing self-determination.

Secondly, the argument that Palestinians have consistently rejected a two-state solution is an oversimplification of a complex history of negotiations. There have been multiple instances where both parties have failed to reach an agreement due to various reasons, including disagreements over key issues like borders, the status of Jerusalem, Israeli settlements, and the right of return for Palestinian refugees. It's not just a matter of Palestinians rejecting offers; it's also about the nature of these offers and whether they meet the minimum acceptable standards for a viable, sovereign Palestinian state.

Do you remember what happened after the Oslo Accords were signed? Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a right-wing religious Zionist. These accords, while a significant step towards peace, did not effectively halt the expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank. The continuous growth of these settlements, deemed illegal under international law, has been a major obstacle to peace and the viability of a two-state solution. The expansion of settlements is often viewed as a manifestation of Israel's reluctance to genuinely commit to a two-state solution, as it continuously alters the facts on the ground, making a viable Palestinian state increasingly difficult to achieve.

​

Your analogy comparing Gaza's rocket attacks to a hypothetical scenario involving Mexico or Canada and the United States is quite absurd. Is the United States imposing a strict, brutal blockade on Mexico or Canada? Does the US prevent Mexico or Canada from developing themselves economically, diplomatically, politically, militarily..etc? If it did, then those countries would probably consider the US its mortal enemy and there would likely be a Mexican or Canadian resistance that might even fire rockets into the US, to make Americans suffer.

Why not? We're making them suffer, why should we expect and feel entitled to live well and secure, while our government is creating hellish conditions in Mexico or Canada? Wouldn't that be naive of us? Your analogy is just ridiculous.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Since 2006, the Gaza Strip has been under a severe blockade imposed by Israel, severely restricting the movement of people and goods.

That's crazy!
Why would Israel do that?

 

[TruthNotBS]

Why did the UN set up refugee camps for muslims in Jordan?
Didn't they know that loser Palestinian muslims are loved by loser Jordanian Palestinian muslims? They're all brothers under Allah.

The UNRWA provides services for around 5.7 million Palestinian refugees,

After 70 years of Jewish genocide of the Palestinians, they drove their numbers from several hundred thousand in 1948 all the way down to 5.7 million?
Shit!
That's some really awful genocide.
If they keep that up, in 2093, there should be 70-90 million Palestinian refugees.
Just horrible!

Firstly, the establishment of refugee camps for Palestinians in Jordan and other neighboring countries by the UNRWA was a direct response to the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, which led to the displacement of approximately 700,000 Palestinian Arabs. This event, known as the Nakba or "catastrophe" by Palestinians, resulted in a large refugee crisis. The role of UNRWA in providing assistance to these refugees is not a reflection of the lack of "brotherhood" in Islam, as you suggested, but a humanitarian response to a crisis caused by war and displacement. The Palestinians, in general, don't want to leave. They want to stay in the Holy Land.

Why shouldn't Palestinians take advantage of the resources offered to them by the West, after the West turned them into refugees by creating a Jewish Zionist State, full of European Jews?

Regarding your comments on population growth and genocide, it's important to clarify a few points, to help you out. The increase in the Palestinian population over the years does not negate the severity of the hardships they have faced, including displacement, military occupation, and loss of life and property. The growth of a population under duress is a common demographic phenomenon and does not invalidate the suffering experienced by that population.

 

[TruthNotBS]

That's crazy!
Why would Israel do that?

At least you admit to the blockade. That's what an occupying, colonizing power does, it seeks to control everything.

 

[Hossfly]

This has turned into an interesting thread. I'll be waiting for the movie to come out.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

At least you admit to the blockade. That's what an occupying, colonizing power does, it seeks to control everything.

Of course, I admit to the blockade.
Will you admit the reason for it?

 

[TruthNotBS]

Of course, I admit to the blockade.
Will you admit the reason for it?

I just did, where do you disagree? The blockade is due to Israel being a colonizing power, that wants full control of the land that it considers "Israel", which includes Gaza. You ask me a question, I answered it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Firstly, the establishment of refugee camps for Palestinians in Jordan and other neighboring countries by the UNRWA was a direct response to the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, which led to the displacement of approximately 700,000 Palestinian Arabs. This event, known as the Nakba or "catastrophe" by Palestinians, resulted in a large refugee crisis. The role of UNRWA in providing assistance to these refugees is not a reflection of the lack of "brotherhood" in Islam, as you suggested, but a humanitarian response to a crisis caused by war and displacement. The Palestinians, in general, don't want to leave. They want to stay in the Holy Land.

Regarding your comments on population growth and genocide, it's important to clarify a few points, to help you out. The increase in the Palestinian population over the years does not negate the severity of the hardships they have faced, including displacement, military occupation, and loss of life and property. The growth of a population under duress is a common demographic phenomenon and does not invalidate the suffering experienced by that population.

Firstly, the establishment of refugee camps for Palestinians in Jordan and other neighboring countries by the UNRWA was a direct response to the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, which led to the displacement of approximately 700,000 Palestinian Arabs.

But why camps? And why camps in Gaza, Judea and Samaria?
Israel doesn't have camps for Jews displaced from Arab nations.

The role of UNRWA in providing assistance to these refugees is not a reflection of the lack of "brotherhood" in Islam
That's exactly what it is. Let the UN take care of the Palestinian losers,
Muslims don't want to.

but a humanitarian response to a crisis caused by war and displacement.

But not a Muslim humanitarian response.

The increase in the Palestinian population over the years does not negate the severity of the hardships they have faced, including displacement, military occupation, and loss of life and property

But it does make the claim of genocide so obviously moronic, only
Muslims or other idiots still believe it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I just did, where do you disagree? The blockade is due to Israel being a colonizing power, that wants full control of the land that it considers "Israel", which includes Gaza. You ask me a question, I answered it.

But why would Israel do it? If they wanted to be a colonizing power,
they'd have kept and expanded their housing in Gaza.
Why does Israel need to control the coast?
If Gaza was a good neighbor, trade would help them and they
wouldn't be such whiney twats.

Nobody wants a bunch of whiney twats for neighbors.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Firstly, the establishment of refugee camps for Palestinians in Jordan and other neighboring countries by the UNRWA was a direct response to the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, which led to the displacement of approximately 700,000 Palestinian Arabs.

But why camps? And why camps in Gaza, Judea and Samaria?
Israel doesn't have camps for Jews displaced from Arab nations.

The role of UNRWA in providing assistance to these refugees is not a reflection of the lack of "brotherhood" in Islam
That's exactly what it is. Let the UN take care of the Palestinian losers,
Muslims don't want to.

but a humanitarian response to a crisis caused by war and displacement.

But not a Muslim humanitarian response.

The increase in the Palestinian population over the years does not negate the severity of the hardships they have faced, including displacement, military occupation, and loss of life and property

But it does make the claim of genocide so obviously moronic, only
Muslims or other idiots still believe it.

Your assertion that the establishment of these camps reflects a lack of "brotherhood" in Islam oversimplifies and misrepresents the situation. The response of Muslim-majority countries to the Palestinian refugee crisis has been varied. While it's true that integration and absorption policies have differed from country to country, many Palestinians have indeed found refuge and even citizenship in countries like Jordan. It's also important to note that the responsibility to address the refugee crisis is not solely on Arab or Muslim nations. The Palestinian refugee crisis is an international issue, born out of a conflict that has drawn in global powers and the United Nations.

More, whatever the state of "brotherhood" is in Islam is irrelevant to the issue of the Zionist Israeli state illegally occupying Palestinian lands and imposing a brutal apartheid upon Arab Palestinians.

The increase in the Palestinian population does not negate the severe impact of the policies and actions that have been described by many as amounting to apartheid or severe oppression. The fact that the Zionist state would love to ethnically cleanse the Holy Land of Arab Palestinians and is carrying out a brutal, racist occupation doesn't make men sterile or women unable to conceive children. People still procreate under the heel of oppression.

The Zionist state is now carrying out a genocidal bombing campaign in Gaza. What does that have to do with the fact that Palestinians procreate? Israel has committed acts of state terrorism and crimes against humanity in the past against the Palestinians and they're doing it right now in Gaza.

 

[TruthNotBS]

But why would Israel do it? If they wanted to be a colonizing power,
they'd have kept and expanded their housing in Gaza.
Why does Israel need to control the coast?
If Gaza was a good neighbor, trade would help them and they
wouldn't be such whiney twats.

Nobody wants a bunch of whiney twats for neighbors.

It's a worse burden to manage Gaza from the inside, occupying it with IDF boots on the ground in a hostile urban environment. They redeployed and fenced the place in, imposing a blockade with the hope that people would eventually opt to migrate out of Gaza (out of Israel).

Anyone in Gaza can leave if they want to, they just can't return. They can migrate to Europe and other countries, thanks to all of the UN humanitarian programs in Gaza, which allow Palestinians to leave, with a boatload of cash (plenty of help). It's easy to get a ticket "out of dodge", but if they do that, they can't see their families again, who remain in Gaza. I lived in Gaza for two months, in 2008, as a volunteer for an NGO. Palestinians don't want to leave because they consider that their homeland.

 

[Hector12]

Why did the UN set up refugee camps for muslims in Jordan?
Didn't they know that loser Palestinian muslims are loved by loser Jordanian Palestinian muslims? They're all brothers under Allah.

The UNRWA provides services for around 5.7 million Palestinian refugees,

After 70 years of Jewish genocide of the Palestinians, they drove their numbers from several hundred thousand in 1948 all the way down to 5.7 million?
Shit!
That's some really awful genocide.
If they keep that up, in 2093, there should be 70-90 million Palestinian refugees.
Just horrible!

Palestinians are only capable of being refugees and terrorists. In Gaza they had the opportunity to create a viable Palestinian state. They failed.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Palestinians are only capable of being refugees and terrorists. In Gaza they had the opportunity to create a viable Palestinian state. They failed.

They're being brutally blockaded economically and otherwise, so what "opportunities" are you referring to? The ones in your head? You're a terrorist for being complicit with the Zionist apartheid state that is right now committing an act of genocide in Gaza. You're an imperialist terrorist.

 

[Hector12]

They're being brutally blockaded economically and otherwise, so what "opportunities" are you referring to? The ones in your head? You're a terrorist for being complicit with the Zionist apartheid state that is right now committing an act of genocide in Gaza. You're an imperialist terrorist.

The Palestinians started it by shooting rockets at Israel. If Mexicans were shooting rockets at us we would turn Mexico into a parking lot.

When are you going to read the Bible and answer the questions I asked you?