Whatever happened to "Republicans"???

[sealybobo]

Rasmussen Reports™: The Most Comprehensive Public Opinion Data Anywhere

Oh, good one. Rasmussen's own website. Hey, I've got a real neat resume, too, if I wanted to become the new CEO of Exxon Mobil, but I'm afraid the hiring committee would want to do some serious verification of some of the content.

Rasmussen also said McCain was winning.

 

[MaggieMae]

I didn't see anything but strange folks at those tea parties.

Of course you didn't.

There were no patchouli-oiled, maggot-infested, hairy armpitted, dredlocked, Che Guevera tee shirt wearing, hippy-dippy-trippy moocher types at the tea parties.....They were mostly people who took time off form their *gaaaaaasp* jobs to peacefully gather and protest.

How old are you, nine? The hippie generation was 40 years ago. That said, I actually got stuck in traffic due to a "tea party" being held in town and *gaaaaaasp* it was because of a bunch of fat white people dragging their kids scarfing down hotdogs meandering all over the middle of the main drag. The following day, the paper said there had been 12 arrests for petty theft. So my conclusion is that "gatherings" like those also attract the slackers looking for freebies and the common thiefs who snatch handbags from little old ladies. It ain't just "hippie" types, my friend.

 

[MaggieMae]

Harry, I disagree with a lot of things you say, but you are right that I don't know you enough to lump you in with all these other people. I simply read what you said, considered what the title of the thread is, and assumed.

I'm usually right, even if you don't like the title I give you. Many of you hate me calling you a righty/republican/neo con/conservative because you are Libertarians. Well I don't think there is any hope that they/you will ever become liberals, so I don't really care if I offend you or get it wrong. You're all the same to me.

Bobo if me and you ever sat down and had a beer.....and discussed the same shit we do here,you would probobly think i am a consv.Dem.....or at least a Moderate one.....i get on you because you can only see one side and one side only.....and everything else is a lie or just not right,and that is not a good thing to do.....BUT that being said,i have more respect for you than ANY other leftist on this board,because you dont seem to waver on your beliefs,and i know where your coming from,AND unlike some of these guys,as far as i know anyhow,you dont Neg Rep anyone FOR disagreeing with ya....i know some folkes here like Dive or Del are thinking WTF happened to Harry........ i think you are the real deal leftist on this board is all....all the others are Bobo wannabes....especially Chrissy....so ill give you some respect for that.....but your still a dipshit...

After reading this, please tell me what I am only seeing one side of. I see both sides. I take in all the facts and then I make a decision. For example, sending jobs overseas will lower costs and maximize a companies profits. See, I see the other side!!!! That doesn't mean I agree with doing this. Or, I think we are doing this too much. Not think, I know we are doing this too much because it is increasing unemployment and lowering wages and I believe this is a good thing for corporations and a bad thing for American workers. So I see both sides, and I think we can meet in the middle on this. But you guys don't seem to care. You argue ONE SIDED on this issue. You argue that we should continue to let companies go overseas so we can continue to get cheap goods. You never once argued about a compromise. I have said many times that we should come up with a compromise. Maybe 50% of a car should be manufactured in the US, or 70%, or 20%. Whatever. Enough that not EVERYTHING is manufactured out of the US. And I suspect that this will be the ultimate solution. But we won't come to that solution until we first waste a couple years arguing with the GOP about isolationism, protectionism, socialism, capitalism and free markets. Meanwhile, the middle class is disappearing.

I see this on every issue. Global warming? Instead of getting companies to stop polluting so much, which is ultimately what will happen, we will waste years arguing with the GOP about whether or not GW even exists.

And you would realize that I'm not a flaming left liberal. I'm just pro labor. And that means I must be anti GOP because they are the anti labor party. Someone suggested that class warfare is not going on. It has been since the beginning of societies. To think it doesn't happen now is rediculous. Why else do unions exist? But instead of admitting it, you guys deny it. Even if I show you that in 2005 corporate profits went up as wages went down, you still deny that the middle class is under attack. Instead of admitting NAFTA is hurting the middle class, you guys only say "CLINTON SIGNED IT", when in fact Bush 1 was president when NAFTA was initiated. And who cares if Clinton did sign it? Was he wrong to sign it? Then why don't you mind that the GOP fight fixing it?

How about all the college kids that are graduating with $40K loans and now can only make $30K because jobs are scarce? What exactly is the GOP's plan for increasing jobs? More tax breaks? HA! Didn't work and doesn't work. We need to bring some of the manufacturing jobs back and we need to protect (protectionism) those jobs and they need to be good paying jobs. That is the only way the middle class will be saved. This is even affecting kids who are graduating college!!! They can't find work. If you have another solution besides bringing manufacturing back to the USA, please tell me.

Don't wonder why our populations is shrinking. Who the hell can afford a family? But you guys don't think that far ahead. And don't wonder why crime goes up with unemployment.

Do conservatives make a lot of sense? Hell yea! Cutting out the wasteful spending/beurocracy. Who's not for that? But I don't equate conservatives with the GOP. And even if I did, there are too many things I disagree with the GOP/Libertarians on to ever support them. I just don't like every man for himself, the same way you probably don't like lazy people spounging off the system. To me, your way is worse.

And I see that the GOP is not going to cut out any spending. They're just going to take from the have nots and give it to the haves. You guys can't deny that is what you do, because I have had many conversations with you guys about why this is right/wrong. You say giving it to the haves will trickle down. Giving it to the have nots is throwing it away. And I disagree, because the have nots will spend it. The haves will tuck it away in Switzerland/Caymens. You guys called me a conspiracy theorist but now we know I was right. Just google UBS 53,000 Americans found to be tucking their money away. Costing America billions of dollars in tax revenue. And you guys even defend that??? So nothing I show you will ever matter to you? And you think I'm one sided? That's pretty damning evidence that I am right. And you have the nerve to defend the Americans who are dodging taxes offshore? Wow! But we have to pay our taxes? Amazing.

So forgive me if I tend to toe the party line on almost everything, but I have a hard time finding things that I agree with the GOP on. And if I agree with them in theory, I understand that they are doing it for alterior reasons/motivations. For example, they don't cut social programs to end gov. waste. They cut them so they can waste the money on themselves.

And no doubt that the mega corporations gouged us for 8 years while the GOP provided cover. You guys denying that and when you can't deny it any longer, you defend it. I remember people saying the oil companies should be able to charge whatever they want. How insane is that?

So the dems are the lesser of two evils. And they are the pro labor party. If we sense they are not working for us enough, thats when they lose elections. Just like America finally figured out the GOP were not working for us but instead working for Wallstreet and Corporations that move abroad.

I don't want socialism, but I do prefer that over what the GOP is doing. They socialize the losses and privatize the profits. How is that better than socialism? And no doubt this crash was done on purpose. The mortgage companies and Wallstreet knew it. They made a fortune and in the end, robbed us of $750 billon and they stil aren't done. And if we don't give them the money, they'll just trash the economy again. That's why I want socialism!!!! I don't want your little mom and pop shop. But I do want America to be in control of our oil, phone lines, radio and tv airwaves, defense, military. For example, how is Blackwater in Iraq a good idea? The GOP says government can't run anything right and so we need to outsource to a private company who does not want the war to end because they are profitting from it. Do you guys understand what war for profit is and how it is wrong?

And all the industries that I bitch about are not really "free market" companies. Healthcare? Lehman brothers? Exxon? Banks? Insurance companies? Credit card companies? Federal Reserve. Come on! Its not like I bitch about small business'. I even defend the American auto companies. But that's because they employ so many people and pay so well. But I know that isn't because they are kinder. Its because of the unions. And again, those union workers buy multiple cars per household. Who's buying now? No one is even buying Toyota's and Honda's. How come their employees aren't buying? Because they only make $15 hr. Do away with unions and see wages go down. PERIOD.

It seems that you right wing Americans want to sacrafice employee wages so the corporations can make more profits. That's the first place they turn when they look to max profits. How about start with the CEO and work your way down?

I understand everything you guys are saying, but do YOU understand that the middle class will disappear without manufacturing? And auto's are the main thing we manufacture?

And you don't get out of a recession by laying millions of people off. So tell me your plan to employ all the unemployed and bring wages up. Tax breaks? See how lame your sides arguments are?

And I don't give a rats ass if these corporations hire people. Do they pay well? Of course I want the cheapest goods possible, but not if it means sacraficing all American jobs.

Do you not believe that we have hurt American jobs with all this outsourcing?

Or maybe you just don't care because you don't think it will affect you personally?

I think you guys take the American middle class for granted that it will always be there and I think corporations and the GOP that serve them count on that. We've been under assault for 30 years. At first I didn't care either because it was just unions. And they did a good job selling us on the idea that unions suck, when what they meant was American labor sucks.

And these mega corporations are killing small business'. Do you guys realize that? Or are you ok with it?

So I not voice my opinion on any issue until I understand both sides. I wish you guys would acknowledge our points more. For example again, yes sending jobs overseas will lower prices, but what about wages? Not everyone can go back to school to become engineers and doctors. So what about the masses who don't go to college and want to be middle class? Are you really ready to say that American dream is over? And from what I'm seeing, even us college grads are asking to take a step back, or else lose our jobs overseas too, or to southern states who's residents will work for less. And we aren't in unions.

Your points are very comprehensive and pointed, Sealy. Unfortunately, the only time you will see an actual debate covering the nuts and bolts of those issues are the panel discussions on C-Span. People should check the schedule and watch more, in order to be fully informed on the reasons people have their opinions on the major issues.

 

[sealybobo]

I didn't see anything but strange folks at those tea parties.

Of course you didn't.

There were no patchouli-oiled, maggot-infested, hairy armpitted, dredlocked, Che Guevera tee shirt wearing, hippy-dippy-trippy moocher types at the tea parties.....They were mostly people who took time off form their *gaaaaaasp* jobs to peacefully gather and protest.

How old are you, nine? The hippie generation was 40 years ago. That said, I actually got stuck in traffic due to a "tea party" being held in town and *gaaaaaasp* it was because of a bunch of fat white people dragging their kids scarfing down hotdogs meandering all over the middle of the main drag. The following day, the paper said there had been 12 arrests for petty theft. So my conclusion is that "gatherings" like those also attract the slackers looking for freebies and the common thiefs who snatch handbags from little old ladies. It ain't just "hippie" types, my friend.

Hippies are liberals, no?

Those were neo con's. I'm glad they got their purses stolen. Spread the wealth.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Harry, I disagree with a lot of things you say, but you are right that I don't know you enough to lump you in with all these other people. I simply read what you said, considered what the title of the thread is, and assumed.

I'm usually right, even if you don't like the title I give you. Many of you hate me calling you a righty/republican/neo con/conservative because you are Libertarians. Well I don't think there is any hope that they/you will ever become liberals, so I don't really care if I offend you or get it wrong. You're all the same to me.

Bobo if me and you ever sat down and had a beer.....and discussed the same shit we do here,you would probobly think i am a consv.Dem.....or at least a Moderate one.....i get on you because you can only see one side and one side only.....and everything else is a lie or just not right,and that is not a good thing to do.....BUT that being said,i have more respect for you than ANY other leftist on this board,because you dont seem to waver on your beliefs,and i know where your coming from,AND unlike some of these guys,as far as i know anyhow,you dont Neg Rep anyone FOR disagreeing with ya....i know some folkes here like Dive or Del are thinking WTF happened to Harry........ i think you are the real deal leftist on this board is all....all the others are Bobo wannabes....especially Chrissy....so ill give you some respect for that.....but your still a dipshit...

After reading this, please tell me what I am only seeing one side of. I see both sides. I take in all the facts and then I make a decision. For example, sending jobs overseas will lower costs and maximize a companies profits. See, I see the other side!!!! That doesn't mean I agree with doing this. Or, I think we are doing this too much. Not think, I know we are doing this too much because it is increasing unemployment and lowering wages and I believe this is a good thing for corporations and a bad thing for American workers. So I see both sides, and I think we can meet in the middle on this. But you guys don't seem to care. You argue ONE SIDED on this issue. You argue that we should continue to let companies go overseas so we can continue to get cheap goods. You never once argued about a compromise. I have said many times that we should come up with a compromise. Maybe 50% of a car should be manufactured in the US, or 70%, or 20%. Whatever. Enough that not EVERYTHING is manufactured out of the US. And I suspect that this will be the ultimate solution. But we won't come to that solution until we first waste a couple years arguing with the GOP about isolationism, protectionism, socialism, capitalism and free markets. Meanwhile, the middle class is disappearing.

I see this on every issue. Global warming? Instead of getting companies to stop polluting so much, which is ultimately what will happen, we will waste years arguing with the GOP about whether or not GW even exists.

And you would realize that I'm not a flaming left liberal. I'm just pro labor. And that means I must be anti GOP because they are the anti labor party. Someone suggested that class warfare is not going on. It has been since the beginning of societies. To think it doesn't happen now is rediculous. Why else do unions exist? But instead of admitting it, you guys deny it. Even if I show you that in 2005 corporate profits went up as wages went down, you still deny that the middle class is under attack. Instead of admitting NAFTA is hurting the middle class, you guys only say "CLINTON SIGNED IT", when in fact Bush 1 was president when NAFTA was initiated. And who cares if Clinton did sign it? Was he wrong to sign it? Then why don't you mind that the GOP fight fixing it?

How about all the college kids that are graduating with $40K loans and now can only make $30K because jobs are scarce? What exactly is the GOP's plan for increasing jobs? More tax breaks? HA! Didn't work and doesn't work. We need to bring some of the manufacturing jobs back and we need to protect (protectionism) those jobs and they need to be good paying jobs. That is the only way the middle class will be saved. This is even affecting kids who are graduating college!!! They can't find work. If you have another solution besides bringing manufacturing back to the USA, please tell me.

Don't wonder why our populations is shrinking. Who the hell can afford a family? But you guys don't think that far ahead. And don't wonder why crime goes up with unemployment.

Do conservatives make a lot of sense? Hell yea! Cutting out the wasteful spending/beurocracy. Who's not for that? But I don't equate conservatives with the GOP. And even if I did, there are too many things I disagree with the GOP/Libertarians on to ever support them. I just don't like every man for himself, the same way you probably don't like lazy people spounging off the system. To me, your way is worse.

And I see that the GOP is not going to cut out any spending. They're just going to take from the have nots and give it to the haves. You guys can't deny that is what you do, because I have had many conversations with you guys about why this is right/wrong. You say giving it to the haves will trickle down. Giving it to the have nots is throwing it away. And I disagree, because the have nots will spend it. The haves will tuck it away in Switzerland/Caymens. You guys called me a conspiracy theorist but now we know I was right. Just google UBS 53,000 Americans found to be tucking their money away. Costing America billions of dollars in tax revenue. And you guys even defend that??? So nothing I show you will ever matter to you? And you think I'm one sided? That's pretty damning evidence that I am right. And you have the nerve to defend the Americans who are dodging taxes offshore? Wow! But we have to pay our taxes? Amazing.

So forgive me if I tend to toe the party line on almost everything, but I have a hard time finding things that I agree with the GOP on. And if I agree with them in theory, I understand that they are doing it for alterior reasons/motivations. For example, they don't cut social programs to end gov. waste. They cut them so they can waste the money on themselves.

And no doubt that the mega corporations gouged us for 8 years while the GOP provided cover. You guys denying that and when you can't deny it any longer, you defend it. I remember people saying the oil companies should be able to charge whatever they want. How insane is that?

So the dems are the lesser of two evils. And they are the pro labor party. If we sense they are not working for us enough, thats when they lose elections. Just like America finally figured out the GOP were not working for us but instead working for Wallstreet and Corporations that move abroad.

I don't want socialism, but I do prefer that over what the GOP is doing. They socialize the losses and privatize the profits. How is that better than socialism? And no doubt this crash was done on purpose. The mortgage companies and Wallstreet knew it. They made a fortune and in the end, robbed us of $750 billon and they stil aren't done. And if we don't give them the money, they'll just trash the economy again. That's why I want socialism!!!! I don't want your little mom and pop shop. But I do want America to be in control of our oil, phone lines, radio and tv airwaves, defense, military. For example, how is Blackwater in Iraq a good idea? The GOP says government can't run anything right and so we need to outsource to a private company who does not want the war to end because they are profitting from it. Do you guys understand what war for profit is and how it is wrong?

And all the industries that I bitch about are not really "free market" companies. Healthcare? Lehman brothers? Exxon? Banks? Insurance companies? Credit card companies? Federal Reserve. Come on! Its not like I bitch about small business'. I even defend the American auto companies. But that's because they employ so many people and pay so well. But I know that isn't because they are kinder. Its because of the unions. And again, those union workers buy multiple cars per household. Who's buying now? No one is even buying Toyota's and Honda's. How come their employees aren't buying? Because they only make $15 hr. Do away with unions and see wages go down. PERIOD.

It seems that you right wing Americans want to sacrafice employee wages so the corporations can make more profits. That's the first place they turn when they look to max profits. How about start with the CEO and work your way down?

I understand everything you guys are saying, but do YOU understand that the middle class will disappear without manufacturing? And auto's are the main thing we manufacture?

And you don't get out of a recession by laying millions of people off. So tell me your plan to employ all the unemployed and bring wages up. Tax breaks? See how lame your sides arguments are?

And I don't give a rats ass if these corporations hire people. Do they pay well? Of course I want the cheapest goods possible, but not if it means sacraficing all American jobs.

Do you not believe that we have hurt American jobs with all this outsourcing?

Or maybe you just don't care because you don't think it will affect you personally?

I think you guys take the American middle class for granted that it will always be there and I think corporations and the GOP that serve them count on that. We've been under assault for 30 years. At first I didn't care either because it was just unions. And they did a good job selling us on the idea that unions suck, when what they meant was American labor sucks.

And these mega corporations are killing small business'. Do you guys realize that? Or are you ok with it?

So I not voice my opinion on any issue until I understand both sides. I wish you guys would acknowledge our points more. For example again, yes sending jobs overseas will lower prices, but what about wages? Not everyone can go back to school to become engineers and doctors. So what about the masses who don't go to college and want to be middle class? Are you really ready to say that American dream is over? And from what I'm seeing, even us college grads are asking to take a step back, or else lose our jobs overseas too, or to southern states who's residents will work for less. And we aren't in unions.

 

[sealybobo]

Your points are very comprehensive and pointed, Sealy. Unfortunately, the only time you will see an actual debate covering the nuts and bolts of those issues are the panel discussions on C-Span. People should check the schedule and watch more, in order to be fully informed on the reasons people have their opinions on the major issues.

I want to get honest brokers like Harry to start admitting when we are right instead of always blowing off our points because we are in a pissing contest.

We will admit that sending jobs overseas is good for corporations, and global trade is here to stay. But will they discuss the negatives with us and help us fix the problems? They certainly don't want to, because that might mean regulations and the price of goods might go up a little.

I think the righties on this board hate me so much because I have figured them out. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I have figured out the game they are playing.

Plus they hate liberalism. No denying that.

But why do they hate liberalism? I think it is more because they are being brainwashedl. Lets look at what Lindsay Graham told them last year on the campaign trail:

he accused Obama of “inciting class warfare” and said that “liberals hate real Americans that work and achieve and believe in God.”

Another McCarthyite Republican: Rep. Robin Hayes says “liberals hate real Americans that work and achieve and believe in God" | Crooks and Liars

And I'm the one who's brainwashed?

And then I found this proof that the last 8 years was an assault on the middle class, and none of them want to talk about it:

Share of National Income Going To Wages and Salaries at Record Low in 2006 — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

So of course that makes me attack them for HATING labor. Now doesn't that seem more realistic than us hating Corporations? Why would we hate corporations? They employ us. We want all the corporations to stay here. We invest in corporations too. We work for corporations. You won't find anyone who defends his/her corporation more than me. One time I knew a co worker who was building a bullshit case to sue the company I worked for. I busted her!!!! Fuck her wrongfully suing the corporation that provides me with an income. I'm very protective of good US companies.

But we just don't want to give them tax breaks for going overseas. And we don't like seeing them lowering labor wages and paying their ceo's $20 billion. Even if it doesn't affect me, I don't want this happening to other Americans. Because I realize that what affects other Americans affects me. We are all in this together.

But the last 8 years was EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF.

 

[elvis]

I want to get honest brokers like Harry to start admitting when we are right instead of always blowing off our points because we are in a pissing contest.

We will admit that sending jobs overseas is good for corporations, and global trade is here to stay. But will they discuss the negatives with us and help us fix the problems? They certainly don't want to, because that might mean regulations and the price of goods might go up a little.

I think the righties on this board hate me so much because I have figured them out. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I have figured out the game they are playing.

Plus they hate liberalism. No denying that.

But why do they hate liberalism? I think it is more because they are being brainwashedl. Lets look at what Lindsay Graham told them last year on the campaign trail:

he accused Obama of “inciting class warfare” and said that “liberals hate real Americans that work and achieve and believe in God.”

Another McCarthyite Republican: Rep. Robin Hayes says “liberals hate real Americans that work and achieve and believe in God" | Crooks and Liars

And I'm the one who's brainwashed?

And then I found this proof that the last 8 years was an assault on the middle class, and none of them want to talk about it:

Share of National Income Going To Wages and Salaries at Record Low in 2006 — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

So of course that makes me attack them for HATING labor. Now doesn't that seem more realistic than us hating Corporations? Why would we hate corporations? They employ us. We want all the corporations to stay here. We invest in corporations too. We work for corporations. You won't find anyone who defends his/her corporation more than me. One time I knew a co worker who was building a bullshit case to sue the company I worked for. I busted her!!!! Fuck her wrongfully suing the corporation that provides me with an income. I'm very protective of good US companies.

But we just don't want to give them tax breaks for going overseas. And we don't like seeing them lowering labor wages and paying their ceo's $20 billion. Even if it doesn't affect me, I don't want this happening to other Americans. Because I realize that what affects other Americans affects me. We are all in this together.

But the last 8 years was EVERY MAN FOR HIMSELF.

Yes you are brainwashed. Probably by the Communist Manifesto.

Clinton and Obama support sending jobs overseas. I didn't know they were right-wingers.

 

[sealybobo]

Bobo if me and you ever sat down and had a beer.....and discussed the same shit we do here,you would probobly think i am a consv.Dem.....or at least a Moderate one.....i get on you because you can only see one side and one side only.....and everything else is a lie or just not right,and that is not a good thing to do.....BUT that being said,i have more respect for you than ANY other leftist on this board,because you dont seem to waver on your beliefs,and i know where your coming from,AND unlike some of these guys,as far as i know anyhow,you dont Neg Rep anyone FOR disagreeing with ya....i know some folkes here like Dive or Del are thinking WTF happened to Harry........ i think you are the real deal leftist on this board is all....all the others are Bobo wannabes....especially Chrissy....so ill give you some respect for that.....but your still a dipshit...

After reading this, please tell me what I am only seeing one side of. I see both sides. I take in all the facts and then I make a decision. For example, sending jobs overseas will lower costs and maximize a companies profits. See, I see the other side!!!! That doesn't mean I agree with doing this. Or, I think we are doing this too much. Not think, I know we are doing this too much because it is increasing unemployment and lowering wages and I believe this is a good thing for corporations and a bad thing for American workers. So I see both sides, and I think we can meet in the middle on this. But you guys don't seem to care. You argue ONE SIDED on this issue. You argue that we should continue to let companies go overseas so we can continue to get cheap goods. You never once argued about a compromise. I have said many times that we should come up with a compromise. Maybe 50% of a car should be manufactured in the US, or 70%, or 20%. Whatever. Enough that not EVERYTHING is manufactured out of the US. And I suspect that this will be the ultimate solution. But we won't come to that solution until we first waste a couple years arguing with the GOP about isolationism, protectionism, socialism, capitalism and free markets. Meanwhile, the middle class is disappearing.

I see this on every issue. Global warming? Instead of getting companies to stop polluting so much, which is ultimately what will happen, we will waste years arguing with the GOP about whether or not GW even exists.

And you would realize that I'm not a flaming left liberal. I'm just pro labor. And that means I must be anti GOP because they are the anti labor party. Someone suggested that class warfare is not going on. It has been since the beginning of societies. To think it doesn't happen now is rediculous. Why else do unions exist? But instead of admitting it, you guys deny it. Even if I show you that in 2005 corporate profits went up as wages went down, you still deny that the middle class is under attack. Instead of admitting NAFTA is hurting the middle class, you guys only say "CLINTON SIGNED IT", when in fact Bush 1 was president when NAFTA was initiated. And who cares if Clinton did sign it? Was he wrong to sign it? Then why don't you mind that the GOP fight fixing it?

How about all the college kids that are graduating with $40K loans and now can only make $30K because jobs are scarce? What exactly is the GOP's plan for increasing jobs? More tax breaks? HA! Didn't work and doesn't work. We need to bring some of the manufacturing jobs back and we need to protect (protectionism) those jobs and they need to be good paying jobs. That is the only way the middle class will be saved. This is even affecting kids who are graduating college!!! They can't find work. If you have another solution besides bringing manufacturing back to the USA, please tell me.

Don't wonder why our populations is shrinking. Who the hell can afford a family? But you guys don't think that far ahead. And don't wonder why crime goes up with unemployment.

Do conservatives make a lot of sense? Hell yea! Cutting out the wasteful spending/beurocracy. Who's not for that? But I don't equate conservatives with the GOP. And even if I did, there are too many things I disagree with the GOP/Libertarians on to ever support them. I just don't like every man for himself, the same way you probably don't like lazy people spounging off the system. To me, your way is worse.

And I see that the GOP is not going to cut out any spending. They're just going to take from the have nots and give it to the haves. You guys can't deny that is what you do, because I have had many conversations with you guys about why this is right/wrong. You say giving it to the haves will trickle down. Giving it to the have nots is throwing it away. And I disagree, because the have nots will spend it. The haves will tuck it away in Switzerland/Caymens. You guys called me a conspiracy theorist but now we know I was right. Just google UBS 53,000 Americans found to be tucking their money away. Costing America billions of dollars in tax revenue. And you guys even defend that??? So nothing I show you will ever matter to you? And you think I'm one sided? That's pretty damning evidence that I am right. And you have the nerve to defend the Americans who are dodging taxes offshore? Wow! But we have to pay our taxes? Amazing.

So forgive me if I tend to toe the party line on almost everything, but I have a hard time finding things that I agree with the GOP on. And if I agree with them in theory, I understand that they are doing it for alterior reasons/motivations. For example, they don't cut social programs to end gov. waste. They cut them so they can waste the money on themselves.

And no doubt that the mega corporations gouged us for 8 years while the GOP provided cover. You guys denying that and when you can't deny it any longer, you defend it. I remember people saying the oil companies should be able to charge whatever they want. How insane is that?

So the dems are the lesser of two evils. And they are the pro labor party. If we sense they are not working for us enough, thats when they lose elections. Just like America finally figured out the GOP were not working for us but instead working for Wallstreet and Corporations that move abroad.

I don't want socialism, but I do prefer that over what the GOP is doing. They socialize the losses and privatize the profits. How is that better than socialism? And no doubt this crash was done on purpose. The mortgage companies and Wallstreet knew it. They made a fortune and in the end, robbed us of $750 billon and they stil aren't done. And if we don't give them the money, they'll just trash the economy again. That's why I want socialism!!!! I don't want your little mom and pop shop. But I do want America to be in control of our oil, phone lines, radio and tv airwaves, defense, military. For example, how is Blackwater in Iraq a good idea? The GOP says government can't run anything right and so we need to outsource to a private company who does not want the war to end because they are profitting from it. Do you guys understand what war for profit is and how it is wrong?

And all the industries that I bitch about are not really "free market" companies. Healthcare? Lehman brothers? Exxon? Banks? Insurance companies? Credit card companies? Federal Reserve. Come on! Its not like I bitch about small business'. I even defend the American auto companies. But that's because they employ so many people and pay so well. But I know that isn't because they are kinder. Its because of the unions. And again, those union workers buy multiple cars per household. Who's buying now? No one is even buying Toyota's and Honda's. How come their employees aren't buying? Because they only make $15 hr. Do away with unions and see wages go down. PERIOD.

It seems that you right wing Americans want to sacrafice employee wages so the corporations can make more profits. That's the first place they turn when they look to max profits. How about start with the CEO and work your way down?

I understand everything you guys are saying, but do YOU understand that the middle class will disappear without manufacturing? And auto's are the main thing we manufacture?

And you don't get out of a recession by laying millions of people off. So tell me your plan to employ all the unemployed and bring wages up. Tax breaks? See how lame your sides arguments are?

And I don't give a rats ass if these corporations hire people. Do they pay well? Of course I want the cheapest goods possible, but not if it means sacraficing all American jobs.

Do you not believe that we have hurt American jobs with all this outsourcing?

Or maybe you just don't care because you don't think it will affect you personally?

I think you guys take the American middle class for granted that it will always be there and I think corporations and the GOP that serve them count on that. We've been under assault for 30 years. At first I didn't care either because it was just unions. And they did a good job selling us on the idea that unions suck, when what they meant was American labor sucks.

And these mega corporations are killing small business'. Do you guys realize that? Or are you ok with it?

So I not voice my opinion on any issue until I understand both sides. I wish you guys would acknowledge our points more. For example again, yes sending jobs overseas will lower prices, but what about wages? Not everyone can go back to school to become engineers and doctors. So what about the masses who don't go to college and want to be middle class? Are you really ready to say that American dream is over? And from what I'm seeing, even us college grads are asking to take a step back, or else lose our jobs overseas too, or to southern states who's residents will work for less. And we aren't in unions.

And that's all off the top of my head.

 

[sealybobo]

Yes you are brainwashed. Probably by the Communist Manifesto.

Clinton and Obama support sending jobs overseas. I didn't know they were right-wingers.

See!!!!! This is my point exactly!!!!!! Thank you Elvis.

 

[Harry Dresden]

But they would never vote for a Democrat, so that is why I don't agree that Democrats are "just as bad". That's just what Republicans say to get people to vote for their party.

And I have asked many righties, if all politicians suck and Obama is a sellout, does that also mean Ronald Reagan sucked and was a sellout?

But NOOOOO!!! They can't get themselves to say that. He was the one exception.

i have voted for Dems.....MANY times....and im sure Reagan sucked a few Corp. cocks....but Internationally he sure brought this country back from the image Carter left us with....

 

[elvis]

See!!!!! This is my point exactly!!!!!! Thank you Elvis.

that you are brainwashed? I didn't see you make that point but at least we agree on something.

 

[Oddball]

How old are you, nine? The hippie generation was 40 years ago. That said, I actually got stuck in traffic due to a "tea party" being held in town and *gaaaaaasp* it was because of a bunch of fat white people dragging their kids scarfing down hotdogs meandering all over the middle of the main drag. The following day, the paper said there had been 12 arrests for petty theft. So my conclusion is that "gatherings" like those also attract the slackers looking for freebies and the common thiefs who snatch handbags from little old ladies. It ain't just "hippie" types, my friend.

You've obviously not spent much time in the intermountain west...The town of Steamboat Springs was overrun with a hippie "Rainbow Festival" a few years ago....Wanna talk about arrests for petty theft, burglary, vagrancy, and public defacation???

Of course, large gatherings almost always draw pickpockets and purse snatchers, no matter who is doing the gathering.....Not even a subtle invocation of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

 

[sealybobo]

Yes you are brainwashed. Probably by the Communist Manifesto.

Clinton and Obama support sending jobs overseas. I didn't know they were right-wingers.

And I hate real Americans that work and achieve and believe in God. You can now quote me as admitting this.

And by real Americans I mean ones in Texas and Alaska that want to seceed from the union. (Tx governor and Palin)

 

[sealybobo]

that you are brainwashed? I didn't see you make that point but at least we agree on something.

No, that you used all the right wing bullshit about liberals that are dishonest, slanderous, wrong, bullshit, not constructive, vague, etc.

You never address real things because you are clueless.

What's Rush saying today? Are you to call us athiests today? How about anti marriage? How about COMMUNISTS!!! What a piece of shit.

Sorry Harry, I'm going to neg rep this cock sucker. THis is the perfect person who deserves a negative rep.

It isn't that I disagree with him. Its that he is the problem with our society.

 

[elvis]

No, that you used all the right wing bullshit about liberals that are dishonest, slanderous, wrong, bullshit, not constructive, vague, etc.

You never address real things because you are clueless.

What's Rush saying today? Are you to call us athiests today? How about anti marriage? How about COMMUNISTS!!! What a piece of shit.

Sorry Harry, I'm going to neg rep this cock sucker. THis is the perfect person who deserves a negative rep.

It isn't that I disagree with him. Its that he is the problem with our society.

no no no. you had it right the first time.

 

[sealybobo]

But they would never vote for a Democrat, so that is why I don't agree that Democrats are "just as bad". That's just what Republicans say to get people to vote for their party.

And I have asked many righties, if all politicians suck and Obama is a sellout, does that also mean Ronald Reagan sucked and was a sellout?

But NOOOOO!!! They can't get themselves to say that. He was the one exception.

i have voted for Dems.....MANY times....and im sure Reagan sucked a few Corp. cocks....but Internationally he sure brought this country back from the image Carter left us with....

Carter was sabotaged by the corporations and rich because he didn't sellout to them. Look how the CIA set him up with that hostage situation. The CIA/GOP said, "hold those hostages until after the election" and then Ollie North sold them guns. Carter was going to win before that. No one took Reagan seriously at first. I saw the special on this on PBS. Carter did get crushed, but a year before the election, he wasn't losing.

He was too good/nice to be president.

Clinton did well because he did sell out. And now righties get to say, "HE SIGNED NAFTA, HE SIGNED NAFTA."

And Obama better not try to fight the powers that be too hard or he might end up like Kennedy. Or, they can tank the stock market and raise gas prices before the 2012 election and get the public to vote for Mitt Romney. Watch and see their upcoming October surprise in 2012.

But I've already seen Obama do more for us than Bush did in 8 years. One example, not allowing the Credit card companies to do whatever they want. Not enough, but at least something. It was under Bush the credit card companies started these shady practices. Or maybe it started under Clinton/Newts watch. Whatever.

Anyways, I'm still waiting to see Obama address jobs in America. I didn't buy it when he said we would replace all the jobs that left with new green jobs. I won't go into why i'm not buying that, but it just isn't enough. We need to do something to bring manufacturing back to the US. Does that mean tariffs? If we have to, sure.

 

[elvis]

But they would never vote for a Democrat, so that is why I don't agree that Democrats are "just as bad". That's just what Republicans say to get people to vote for their party.

And I have asked many righties, if all politicians suck and Obama is a sellout, does that also mean Ronald Reagan sucked and was a sellout?

But NOOOOO!!! They can't get themselves to say that. He was the one exception.

i have voted for Dems.....MANY times....and im sure Reagan sucked a few Corp. cocks....but Internationally he sure brought this country back from the image Carter left us with....

Carter was sabotaged by the corporations and rich because he didn't sellout to them. Look how the CIA set him up with that hostage situation. The CIA/GOP said, "hold those hostages until after the election" and then Ollie North sold them guns. Carter was going to win before that. No one took Reagan seriously at first. I saw the special on this on PBS. Carter did get crushed, but a year before the election, he wasn't losing.

He was too good/nice to be president.

Clinton did well because he did sell out. And now righties get to say, "HE SIGNED NAFTA, HE SIGNED NAFTA."

And Obama better not try to fight the powers that be too hard or he might end up like Kennedy. Or, they can tank the stock market and raise gas prices before the 2012 election and get the public to vote for Mitt Romney. Watch and see their upcoming October surprise in 2012.

But I've already seen Obama do more for us than Bush did in 8 years. One example, not allowing the Credit card companies to do whatever they want. Not enough, but at least something. It was under Bush the credit card companies started these shady practices. Or maybe it started under Clinton/Newts watch. Whatever.

Anyways, I'm still waiting to see Obama address jobs in America. I didn't buy it when he said we would replace all the jobs that left with new green jobs. I won't go into why i'm not buying that, but it just isn't enough. We need to do something to bring manufacturing back to the US. Does that mean tariffs? If we have to, sure.

such elaborate theories

 

[Oddball]

such elaborate theories

 

[sealybobo]

i have voted for Dems.....MANY times....and im sure Reagan sucked a few Corp. cocks....but Internationally he sure brought this country back from the image Carter left us with....

Carter was sabotaged by the corporations and rich because he didn't sellout to them. Look how the CIA set him up with that hostage situation. The CIA/GOP said, "hold those hostages until after the election" and then Ollie North sold them guns. Carter was going to win before that. No one took Reagan seriously at first. I saw the special on this on PBS. Carter did get crushed, but a year before the election, he wasn't losing.

He was too good/nice to be president.

Clinton did well because he did sell out. And now righties get to say, "HE SIGNED NAFTA, HE SIGNED NAFTA."

And Obama better not try to fight the powers that be too hard or he might end up like Kennedy. Or, they can tank the stock market and raise gas prices before the 2012 election and get the public to vote for Mitt Romney. Watch and see their upcoming October surprise in 2012.

But I've already seen Obama do more for us than Bush did in 8 years. One example, not allowing the Credit card companies to do whatever they want. Not enough, but at least something. It was under Bush the credit card companies started these shady practices. Or maybe it started under Clinton/Newts watch. Whatever.

Anyways, I'm still waiting to see Obama address jobs in America. I didn't buy it when he said we would replace all the jobs that left with new green jobs. I won't go into why i'm not buying that, but it just isn't enough. We need to do something to bring manufacturing back to the US. Does that mean tariffs? If we have to, sure.

such elaborate theories

Not really, unless you are a simpleton. Just look at how they let go of the hostages right after the election. Don't assume they were afraid of Reagan, because no one knew who he was at the time. He was just an actor at the time.

And Bush 1 was CIA director, and then got the VP spot, and then the Iran contra affair happened soon after?

And the last thing to shut you up is that this is where the term October Surprise came from.

You are dumber than I thought.

 

[MaggieMae]

How old are you, nine? The hippie generation was 40 years ago. That said, I actually got stuck in traffic due to a "tea party" being held in town and *gaaaaaasp* it was because of a bunch of fat white people dragging their kids scarfing down hotdogs meandering all over the middle of the main drag. The following day, the paper said there had been 12 arrests for petty theft. So my conclusion is that "gatherings" like those also attract the slackers looking for freebies and the common thiefs who snatch handbags from little old ladies. It ain't just "hippie" types, my friend.

You've obviously not spent much time in the intermountain west...The town of Steamboat Springs was overrun with a hippie "Rainbow Festival" a few years ago....Wanna talk about arrests for petty theft, burglary, vagrancy, and public defacation???

Of course, large gatherings almost always draw pickpockets and purse snatchers, no matter who is doing the gathering.....Not even a subtle invocation of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

That was my point too, so why did you infer that ONLY unwashed liberals are responsible for messing up protests? I just don't see why it's necessary to make blanket assertions, which you ALWAYS do, inferring that everyone who isn't on your "right" side of any issue is, collectively, not worth shit.