What's An Acceptable Number Of Innocent People Being Executed?

[taichiliberal]

Let's just put all the BS to rest, shall we?


Rick Perry had an innocent man executed, and should be made to answer

"...Not only did Governor Perry deny Willingham’s appeal for clemency even though an expert arson investigator had rebutted all the solid evidence in the case, Perry fired investigators who were about to provide Willingham’s innocence."
Perry: Willingham


Daily Kos: Rick Perry had an innocent man executed, and should be made to answer


Bottom line: Essentially we've got a re-tread of the Shrub with an ability to actually give a coherent speech...Jeezus, do we have to go through this again?

Perry did not have an innocent man executed. The FACTS state otherwise....or did you not read the links I provided. The state of Texas tried the man, and proved he was guilty, After that all of his appeals failed, including his appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States. That made his execution inevitable under Texas law unless the board of Pardons and Paroles recommended clemency. Since they never did Perry could not have prevented it if he wanted to.

Once again, you live up to your screen name. If you had bothered to actually READ the information provided, you would have noted that EVIDENCE WAS WITHHELD in the case....evidence that would have kept the man from being executed for a crime he didn't commit. THAT is what was coming out of the review of the case, and THAT is why Perry REPLACED all pertinent people in that review process in order to maintain the legitimacy of his signing off on that execution. Oh, and PLEASE do some decent research, as it's pretty common knowledge that the Governor of Texas HAS THE FINAL SAY ON ALL STATE EXECUTIONS BY GRANTING A 30 DAY "STAY" PERIOD. Perry did no such thing in this case.

If you want to go after him at least go after him for what he did, which was work to hide the facts that would have proven the state was wrong. I really hate it when idiots force me to defend politicians.

It cracks me up when blowhard neocon know-it-alls shoot off their mouths based on half truths, beliefs and willful ignorance. If this Quantumly stupid Windbag actually read the links, he would have known that I am indeed going after Perry ON BOTH COUNTS.

But what else can one expect from a Quantum Windbag?

 

[taichiliberal]

Let's just put all the BS to rest, shall we?


Rick Perry had an innocent man executed, and should be made to answer

"...Not only did Governor Perry deny Willingham’s appeal for clemency even though an expert arson investigator had rebutted all the solid evidence in the case, Perry fired investigators who were about to provide Willingham’s innocence."
Perry: Willingham


Daily Kos: Rick Perry had an innocent man executed, and should be made to answer


Bottom line: Essentially we've got a re-tread of the Shrub with an ability to actually give a coherent speech...Jeezus, do we have to go through this again?

Perry did not have an innocent man executed. The state of Texas tried the man, and proved he was guilty, After that all of his appeals failed, including his appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States. That made his execution inevitable under Texas law unless the board of Pardons and Paroles recommended clemency. Since they never did Perry could not have prevented it if he wanted to.

If you want to go after him at least go after him for what he did, which was work to hide the facts that would have proven the state was wrong. I really hate it when idiots force me to defend politicians.

LOL now that is funny, If the evidence was hidden how do you know for sure it "would have proven the state was wrong"

Seems you like to make assumptions with out any real evidence to back them up.

Read the information provided in the links I gave, chuckles. If the Windbag had done so, he would have noticed that I did indeed go after Perry on both counts....Perry DID NOT issue a 30 day stay of execution, which he could have done. And when a review board was concluding that evidence withheld would have proven the man innocent, Perry had them replaced! A matter of fact, a matter of history.

Laugh that one off, Chuckles.

 

[taichiliberal]

Perry did not have an innocent man executed. The state of Texas tried the man, and proved he was guilty, After that all of his appeals failed, including his appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States. That made his execution inevitable under Texas law unless the board of Pardons and Paroles recommended clemency. Since they never did Perry could not have prevented it if he wanted to.

If you want to go after him at least go after him for what he did, which was work to hide the facts that would have proven the state was wrong. I really hate it when idiots force me to defend politicians.

Are you saying the Governor cannot stay an execution in Texas? I think you're incorrect about that.

The governor can issue a single 30 day stay of execution. That will not prevent an execution, which means he cannot stop it even if he wants to. Most of the executive power in Texas lies with the bureaucracy, not the governor.

The stay of execution gives the defense time to get a review....if they have enough evidence to raise reasonable doubt, the death penalty can be lifted, and a full court review can be enacted.

Perry has only issued 4 stays during his signing off on those 200 some odd executions. And given the FACT that Perry REPLACED the review people when it looked like a major fuck up killed a man, I dare say the Teabagger Golden Boy has lost his sheen.

 

[taichiliberal]

Perry did not have an innocent man executed. The state of Texas tried the man, and proved he was guilty, After that all of his appeals failed, including his appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States. That made his execution inevitable under Texas law unless the board of Pardons and Paroles recommended clemency. Since they never did Perry could not have prevented it if he wanted to.

If you want to go after him at least go after him for what he did, which was work to hide the facts that would have proven the state was wrong. I really hate it when idiots force me to defend politicians.

Are you saying the Governor cannot stay an execution in Texas? I think you're incorrect about that.

everyone is entitled to an opinion my butt with you is you dont like perry fine, i dont perticulary like him either . in his favor he has been the longest serving governor in US history in a traditionally democratic state so he must be doing something right
you cant just accuse him of something he didnt do just because of your hate for him

the ADMINISTATION SYSTEM in texas had a man found guilty of murder by 12 of his piers executed
executing a condemmed man ** is not murder ** that is a legal term look it up

any governor of texas follows the same constituton.
didnt hear you bitch like a spoilt child when anne richards ex governor of texas had convicted murderers executed on her watch she was a ( d )
many governors before her where democrats and executions of convicted murderers has been carried out in texas since its conception .
\stick to the facts if you dont like perry FINE your are entitled to your opinion .dont let political dogma get in the way of facts

a private individual could sue you PERRY cant

Stop being a willfully ignorant cretin and research the following:

Evidence withheld in the case
Perry NOT signing a 30 stay
Perry REPLACING the people who reviewed the case and note that the withheld evidence would have cleared the man of murder, thus no execution.

Stop mouthing neocon/teabagger platitudes and do some HONEST, thorough research.

 

[Intense]

From your link.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Forensic scientists have called into question arson evidence used to convict Willingham, who maintained his innocence until his death. John Jackson, the Navarro County prosecutor who argued the case, still believes Willingham is guilty, but acknowledges it would have been hard to win a death sentence without the arson finding.

The governor has been criticized for replacing members of the Texas Forensic Science Commission just before they were to review a new report critical of the arson science used to convict Willingham. If the evidence ultimately proves Willingham did not kill his children, it would be the first known wrongful execution in Texas.

Perry dismissed suggestions he was trying to influence the commission’s findings, calling the commission members’ replacement a matter of “process.” He said capable new members of the panel will move forward with the investigation.

Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, Perry’s rival for the Republican nomination for governor in 2010, has said that while she supports the death penalty, she disagrees with Perry’s decision to replace the commission members.

She told The Associated Press on Wednesday in Houston that Perry should have allowed the panel’s investigation to go forward to ensure that Willingham was in fact guilty.

“I don’t have the facts. I’m not taking up for Mr. Willingham because I have no idea. I’m taking up for the process, for the criminal justice system in our state,” Hutchison said.

Hutchison, repeating a point her campaign has been pressing for days, said Perry’s actions were heavy-handed, much like his decision to replace appointees on university regent boards who didn’t back him.

“I think the majority of Texans believe the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for the crimes that are the state law for the death penalty. I think every one of the people who believe in the death penalty would want to know we are using DNA evidence and the best technology in all the fields to determine if a person is rightfully convicted,” Hutchison said.

Hutchison’s campaign issued a statement saying Perry’s handling of the commission has given liberals ammunition to discredit the death penalty.

A state fire marshal, now deceased, and a local fire investigator ruled the Willingham case was arson. The investigator stands by the findings.

But a Baltimore-based arson expert hired by the Forensic Science Commission to study the case, Craig Beyler, concluded that the arson findings were not scientifically supported and that investigators at the scene had “poor understandings of fire science.”

Perry said he wanted to remind the public of all the facts in the case, not “one piece of study that everyone is glomming onto and saying ‘Ah-ha.’”

“Getting all tied up in the process here frankly is a deflection of what people across this state and this country need to be looking at,” Perry said.

At trial, Willingham’s wife, Stacy, testified for him during the punishment phase, denying he ever hurt her. Acquaintances, however, said she told them he’d beaten her several times, even while she was pregnant.

Perry: Willingham

 

[Avatar4321]

What innocent people have been executed?

That may be hard to establish. Here are some examples of wrongful convictions with happy endings.
----------------------------------------------------------
Death Penalty and Innocence

Since 1973, over 130 people have been released from death rows throughout the country due to evidence of their wrongful convictions. In 2003 alone, 10 wrongfully convicted defendants were released from death row.

Examples of wrongful convictions:

Arizona: Ray Krone, released in 2002

Spent 10 years in prison in Arizona, including time on death row, for a murder he did not commit. He was the 100th person to be released from death row since 1973. DNA testing proved his innocence.


Illinois: Madison Hobley, Aaron Patterson, Stanley Howard and LeRoy Orange, pardoned in 2003

Sent to death row on the basis of "confessions" extracted through the use of torture by former Chicago Police Commander Jon Burge and other Area 2 police officers in Chicago. They were pardoned by outgoing Governor George Ryan, who also commuted the remaining 167 death sentences in Illinois to life imprisonment.


North Carolina: Jonathon Hoffman, exonerated in 2007

Convicted and sentenced to death for the 1995 murder of a jewelry store owner. During Hoffman's first trial, the state's key witness, Johnell Porter, made undisclosed deals with the prosecutors for testifying against his cousin. Porter has since recanted his testimony, stating that he lied in order to get back at his cousin for stealing money from him.

Factors leading to wrongful convictions include:

Inadequate legal representation
Police and prosecutorial misconduct
Perjured testimony and mistaken eyewitness testimony
Racial prejudice
Jailhouse "snitch" testimony
Suppression and/or misinterpretation of mitigating evidence
Community/political pressure to solve a case

Death Penalty and Innocence | Amnesty International USA

So countless cases of the system working and people being exonerated. But is there a single case of an innocent being executed?

 

[Bfgrn]

Perry did not have an innocent man executed. The state of Texas tried the man, and proved he was guilty, After that all of his appeals failed, including his appeal to the Supreme Court of the United States. That made his execution inevitable under Texas law unless the board of Pardons and Paroles recommended clemency. Since they never did Perry could not have prevented it if he wanted to.

If you want to go after him at least go after him for what he did, which was work to hide the facts that would have proven the state was wrong. I really hate it when idiots force me to defend politicians.

Are you saying the Governor cannot stay an execution in Texas? I think you're incorrect about that.

everyone is entitled to an opinion my butt with you is you dont like perry fine, i dont perticulary like him either . in his favor he has been the longest serving governor in US history in a traditionally democratic state so he must be doing something right
you cant just accuse him of something he didnt do just because of your hate for him

the ADMINISTATION SYSTEM in texas had a man found guilty of murder by 12 of his piers executed
executing a condemmed man ** is not murder ** that is a legal term look it up

any governor of texas follows the same constituton.
didnt hear you bitch like a spoilt child when anne richards ex governor of texas had convicted murderers executed on her watch she was a ( d )
many governors before her where democrats and executions of convicted murderers has been carried out in texas since its conception .
\stick to the facts if you dont like perry FINE your are entitled to your opinion .dont let political dogma get in the way of facts

a private individual could sue you PERRY cant

 

[DaGoose]

Just wondered what an acceptable number would be for "executing innocent people by mistake" before reviewing the death penalty? What brings this up is the proud record of Texas.

From what I've seen there have been 12 people released from Death Row in Texas. There has also been 755 executed. Now ASSUMING that EVERY ONE of the executed were, in fact, guilty as charged (highly unlikely) that would bring the average to about 1.6% faulty conviction rate.

So what say you? Is more than 1 out of 100 "mistakes" an acceptable number? Would that be considered "collateral damage"?

State by State Database | Death Penalty Information Center

DA who convicted man freed from death row:

NCADP Affiliate: Texas Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty

.

well as has been discussed on another thread recently we are dealing with a lot of assumptions here .
of course the acceptable # is 0
there are a lot of sites mostly run by (anti DP advocats )) promoting the innocence of some who have been convicted and executed but IN NOT ONE case has the been irrifutable evidence that the person was innocent of the crime he/she was executed for .

but i agree we are human mistakes* could* have been made
when mistakes are discovered (like in the 12 released ) corrective action is taken

Before conviction you get the benefit of the doubt but not after conviction. Most convicted felons have very limited financial resources and thus must rely on a public defender who also has very limited resources. In most cases the effort is a brief review of the trial transcript to see if there was some mistake made in the trial. Interviewing witnesses and chasing down leads is something for the movies, not real life. If you're convicted and you're innocent, your best chance of getting out is parole.

There are a lot of people who go to prison that are innocent. To believe that no innocent person is executed requires a huge amount of faith in a very flawed system.

Then you should talk to Driveby. He has all the faith in the world of our government and judicial system.

.

 

[idb]

I never picked you as one to have so much unquestioning faith in authority.

That's because you're a certified imbecile. I have faith in juries, not authority. This issue has nothing to do with the later.

Well, oddly enough, I also never picked you as one to have unquestioning faith in the collective wisdom of your fellow man.

Does that mean you will stop carping on about elected officials?

 

[taichiliberal]

What innocent people have been executed?

That may be hard to establish. Here are some examples of wrongful convictions with happy endings.
----------------------------------------------------------
Death Penalty and Innocence

Since 1973, over 130 people have been released from death rows throughout the country due to evidence of their wrongful convictions. In 2003 alone, 10 wrongfully convicted defendants were released from death row.

Examples of wrongful convictions:

Arizona: Ray Krone, released in 2002

Spent 10 years in prison in Arizona, including time on death row, for a murder he did not commit. He was the 100th person to be released from death row since 1973. DNA testing proved his innocence.


Illinois: Madison Hobley, Aaron Patterson, Stanley Howard and LeRoy Orange, pardoned in 2003

Sent to death row on the basis of "confessions" extracted through the use of torture by former Chicago Police Commander Jon Burge and other Area 2 police officers in Chicago. They were pardoned by outgoing Governor George Ryan, who also commuted the remaining 167 death sentences in Illinois to life imprisonment.


North Carolina: Jonathon Hoffman, exonerated in 2007

Convicted and sentenced to death for the 1995 murder of a jewelry store owner. During Hoffman's first trial, the state's key witness, Johnell Porter, made undisclosed deals with the prosecutors for testifying against his cousin. Porter has since recanted his testimony, stating that he lied in order to get back at his cousin for stealing money from him.

Factors leading to wrongful convictions include:

Inadequate legal representation
Police and prosecutorial misconduct
Perjured testimony and mistaken eyewitness testimony
Racial prejudice
Jailhouse "snitch" testimony
Suppression and/or misinterpretation of mitigating evidence
Community/political pressure to solve a case

Death Penalty and Innocence | Amnesty International USA

So countless cases of the system working and people being exonerated. But is there a single case of an innocent being executed?

So long as it's not you, or someone you know and love who is wrongfully executed, you just spew the party line and could care less.


Here stupid, for your education:

https://www.msu.edu/~millettf/DeathPenalty/1.html

 

[Sunshine]

Conversely, what's the acceptable number of criminals released back into society to continue perpetrating their crimes?

 

[idb]

Conversely, what's the acceptable number of criminals released back into society to continue perpetrating their crimes?

I thought that your constitutional right to gun ownership kept you safe.

 

[Sunshine]

Conversely, what's the acceptable number of criminals released back into society to continue perpetrating their crimes?

I thought that your constitutional right to gun ownership kept you safe.

That's what you get for thinking.

 

[idb]

Conversely, what's the acceptable number of criminals released back into society to continue perpetrating their crimes?

I thought that your constitutional right to gun ownership kept you safe.

That's what you get for thinking.

I really should stop it, I know...

 

[Flopper]

What innocent people have been executed?

That may be hard to establish. Here are some examples of wrongful convictions with happy endings.
----------------------------------------------------------
Death Penalty and Innocence

Since 1973, over 130 people have been released from death rows throughout the country due to evidence of their wrongful convictions. In 2003 alone, 10 wrongfully convicted defendants were released from death row.

Examples of wrongful convictions:

Arizona: Ray Krone, released in 2002

Spent 10 years in prison in Arizona, including time on death row, for a murder he did not commit. He was the 100th person to be released from death row since 1973. DNA testing proved his innocence.


Illinois: Madison Hobley, Aaron Patterson, Stanley Howard and LeRoy Orange, pardoned in 2003

Sent to death row on the basis of "confessions" extracted through the use of torture by former Chicago Police Commander Jon Burge and other Area 2 police officers in Chicago. They were pardoned by outgoing Governor George Ryan, who also commuted the remaining 167 death sentences in Illinois to life imprisonment.


North Carolina: Jonathon Hoffman, exonerated in 2007

Convicted and sentenced to death for the 1995 murder of a jewelry store owner. During Hoffman's first trial, the state's key witness, Johnell Porter, made undisclosed deals with the prosecutors for testifying against his cousin. Porter has since recanted his testimony, stating that he lied in order to get back at his cousin for stealing money from him.

Factors leading to wrongful convictions include:

Inadequate legal representation
Police and prosecutorial misconduct
Perjured testimony and mistaken eyewitness testimony
Racial prejudice
Jailhouse "snitch" testimony
Suppression and/or misinterpretation of mitigating evidence
Community/political pressure to solve a case

Death Penalty and Innocence | Amnesty International USA

So countless cases of the system working and people being exonerated. But is there a single case of an innocent being executed?

For a court to overturn a conviction after execution, you would have to prove without a shadow of doubt the person was innocent. It you could do that, the person would never have been brought to trial. I doubt very seriously the court would accept anything less. I can just picture the governor sending a letter of apology to the family, not gonna happen.

However, there have been plenty of cases where there was very strong evidence of innocence which the state ignored.

One such case was Jesse Joseph Tafero (October 12, 1946 – May 4, 1990)
Jesse Tafero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sunshine]

I thought that your constitutional right to gun ownership kept you safe.

That's what you get for thinking.

I really should stop it, I know...

LOL. You're a good sport!

 

[whitehall]

What's an acceptable number of horrific crimes comitted by monsters before you consider the death penalty? We know for sure that life in prison doesn't mean life and we know there is no such thing as "hard labor" and there are monsters who may be turned loose on society someday. We trust the best judicial system in the world when they say that more innocent people died in Teddy Kennedy's car.

 

[Flopper]

What's an acceptable number of horrific crimes comitted by monsters before you consider the death penalty? We know for sure that life in prison doesn't mean life and we know there is no such thing as "hard labor" and there are monsters who may be turned loose on society someday. We trust the best judicial system in the world when they say that more innocent people died in Teddy Kennedy's car.

To think that there has never been an innocent person executed is a bit ridiculous. As of 2005, there have been 14 death row inmates freed by DNA evidence. It's estimated there have been over 15,000 people executed in the US and there over 3,000 on death row now . If you believe they are all guilty you have a lot of faith in an incredibly flawed system.

 

[Intense]

What's an acceptable number of horrific crimes comitted by monsters before you consider the death penalty? We know for sure that life in prison doesn't mean life and we know there is no such thing as "hard labor" and there are monsters who may be turned loose on society someday. We trust the best judicial system in the world when they say that more innocent people died in Teddy Kennedy's car.

When the Crime is Horrific, and there is no doubt, I would not stand in the way of the Death Sentence. Torture, Mutilation, Mass Murder. Slam Dunk. The next category, Life in Prison, No Parole, on down to the lighter sentences. It is for Society to decide.

 

[IndependntLogic]

What's an acceptable number of people wrongly incarcerated for rape? Do you want to stop incarcerating rapists?

As far as I know, even if we don't kill murderers, we still jail them. So your analogy is without merit.

That doesn't answer my question. What's an acceptable number?

Well, I would have to go with 6.275