What's wrong with smart guns?

[2aguy]

Gun rights advocates will say they are a form of gun control and a violation of the second amendment rights. I say abide by the second amendment by owning a musket.

Very good point. When the Second Amendment was written, "arms" meant a very different thing than it does now. At that time not even the Minié Ball had been invented. To read the Amendment literally, I should be allowed to bear a fighter jet or a nuclear missile if I want to.

and you couldn't use your iPhone, pads or computers...they are obviously not covered by the first amendment....do you guys always have to use tired, stupid arguments?

 

[2aguy]

357 million guns in private hands....accidental deaths with guns, of children in 2013 69.

total accidental gun deaths in 2013...505.


smart guns are a solution to a problem that isn't a problem......if you want a smart gun and want to bet your life on it go ahead...the gene pool can use some straining.....but don't mandate your stupidity for normal people.

Out of 320 million people...13 million people carrying guns each day for self defense...

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Gun rights advocates will say they are a form of gun control and a violation of the second amendment rights. I say abide by the second amendment by owning a musket.

Very good point. When the Second Amendment was written, "arms" meant a very different thing than it does now. At that time not even the Minié Ball had been invented. To read the Amendment literally, I should be allowed to bear a fighter jet or a nuclear missile if I want to.

When you can bear under the definition a fighter jet or a nuclear missile, we will consider your interesting viewpoint.

In the Heller case, the SCOTUS noted that there was a historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of “dangerous and unusual weapons”.

And yet his point stands doesn't. it funny how you yowl and whine when the government want's to invade your computer. A tad bit hypocritical don't ya think?

No, it does not. And for argument's sake, where have I done so? Please expound.

 

[2aguy]

Smart guns, which will only shoot with the owner's fingerprint, would prevent children from shooting themselves and others, and thieves and criminals couldn't use them. Gun rights advocates will say they are a form of gun control and a violation of the second amendment rights. I say abide by the second amendment by owning a musket. When rapid fire guns were invented no gun rights person refused to use them because they weren't muskets. Time changes everything. As for hacking a smart gun, you're more likely to have your phone or computer hacked and that doesn't stop people from using them. And they worry that the government will "track" them. So? We've been tracked for years and it hasn't made an iota of difference in our lives.

The biggest problem is they don't work. If they worked 100% of the time most here would not be against them.

BMW makes a car that doesn't even have a key. It's probably not perfect yet, but they will work out the bugs just like bugs are always worked out. You think they aren't capable of giving that same dependability to a gun?

Having a car that you can't get into is a far cry from needing to use your gun and having it not function. Especially if you are at home and a home invader has broken down your door. Don't you think?

Dependability is the point. A multi Billion dollar car manufacturer isn't going to sell something that they know will cost them more money to repair or replace in the future unless they think they can lie their way out of it. Ignition systems are too noticeable to lie about. Dependable smart guns are possible now and will only get more dependable in the future.

then buy one...I will stick with guns that work.....

 

[2aguy]

The biggest problem is they don't work. If they worked 100% of the time most here would not be against them.

BMW makes a car that doesn't even have a key. It's probably not perfect yet, but they will work out the bugs just like bugs are always worked out. You think they aren't capable of giving that same dependability to a gun?

Having a car that you can't get into is a far cry from needing to use your gun and having it not function. Especially if you are at home and a home invader has broken down your door. Don't you think?

The chance of that happening is about nil. First nobody will probably ever break in. Second according to the pro gunners you won't have to actually fire the gun. Third it is extremely unlikely to malfunction.

The best pistol out there claims 90%. Now. Take 10 cookies, add cyanide to one of them. Put them in a bowl. Choose one and eat it.

And since the likelyhood of ever needing to fire in defense is quite astronomical what is the problem?

ask all the actual victims of rape, robbery, murder, kidnapping...your claim is not 100%.....so therefore you have no idea what you are talking about.......

also ask the 12 million people murdered by the Europeans......they will tell you they needed guns too...

 

[2aguy]

The biggest problem is they don't work. If they worked 100% of the time most here would not be against them.

BMW makes a car that doesn't even have a key. It's probably not perfect yet, but they will work out the bugs just like bugs are always worked out. You think they aren't capable of giving that same dependability to a gun?

Having a car that you can't get into is a far cry from needing to use your gun and having it not function. Especially if you are at home and a home invader has broken down your door. Don't you think?

The chance of that happening is about nil. First nobody will probably ever break in. Second according to the pro gunners you won't have to actually fire the gun. Third it is extremely unlikely to malfunction.

The best pistol out there claims 90%. Now. Take 10 cookies, add cyanide to one of them. Put them in a bowl. Choose one and eat it.

I hardly believe the best technology out there is some proposed gun from more than two years ago. There have probably been 4 generations of advancement since then. I'm guessing you feel good enough to continue conversations, but still not good enough to back up your claims.That's OK. It's what I usually expect.

again....then you buy it...I will stick with the guns I choose to own...

 

[2aguy]

Sounds like smart guns are way more reliable than the crazy claims being made:

Robert Spitzer, a SUNY Cortland political science professor and author of The Politics of Gun Control (whom Hayes brought in after Pratt to talk about the issue), said in order for the Armatix iP1 gun to be sold in California, it had to pass a reliability test.

"The standard was a 99 percent successful fire rate, which it met (fire 600 times with 6 or fewer failed discharges)," Spitzer said.

Others stressed that all guns are prone to failure at some point. The mechanical failure rate is often given as 1 in 1,000, and a military weapon’s failure rate is closer to 1 in 10,000, Sebastian said.

"Misfire is embedded in our language," he said.

Gun advocate Larry Pratt says 'smart guns' fail 20 percent of the time

if you love it so much...you buy it...just don't try to force normal people to buy one.

 

[2aguy]

As opposed to the anyone who picks it up gets to use it variety?

You mean like any other tool?

Yeah, why not?

Interesting. How many children have accidentally hammered themselves to death?

Far more chilluns die in swimming pools, car accidents and choking on hot dogs than die from accidental gun discharge.

Shall we ban swimming pools, cars and hot dogs too?

Whoa, whoa, whoa gun grabber, who said anything about banning?

swimming pools, cars and hot dogs...what do these three have in common? Oh, yes. regulation.

Now, other than that, just out of curiosity, where are your stats? You might want to include hammers since that was the specific tool we were talking about.

Guns are one of the most regulated industries in the country.....

 

[HappyJoy]

As opposed to the anyone who picks it up gets to use it variety?

You mean like any other tool?

Yeah, why not?

Interesting. How many children have accidentally hammered themselves to death?

Far more chilluns die in swimming pools, car accidents and choking on hot dogs than die from accidental gun discharge.

Shall we ban swimming pools, cars and hot dogs too?

Whoa, whoa, whoa gun grabber, who said anything about banning?

swimming pools, cars and hot dogs...what do these three have in common? Oh, yes. regulation.

Now, other than that, just out of curiosity, where are your stats? You might want to include hammers since that was the specific tool we were talking about.

Guns are one of the most regulated industries in the country.....

I don't have to put a fence around my gun, my pool is another matter.

 

[Brain357]

BMW makes a car that doesn't even have a key. It's probably not perfect yet, but they will work out the bugs just like bugs are always worked out. You think they aren't capable of giving that same dependability to a gun?

Having a car that you can't get into is a far cry from needing to use your gun and having it not function. Especially if you are at home and a home invader has broken down your door. Don't you think?

The chance of that happening is about nil. First nobody will probably ever break in. Second according to the pro gunners you won't have to actually fire the gun. Third it is extremely unlikely to malfunction.

The best pistol out there claims 90%. Now. Take 10 cookies, add cyanide to one of them. Put them in a bowl. Choose one and eat it.

And since the likelyhood of ever needing to fire in defense is quite astronomical what is the problem?

ask all the actual victims of rape, robbery, murder, kidnapping...your claim is not 100%.....so therefore you have no idea what you are talking about.......

also ask the 12 million people murdered by the Europeans......they will tell you they needed guns too...

You are one of the people always claiming guns aren't even fired in defense. Are you now claiming they are often fired in defense? Is that something you really want to do?

When were 12 million people murdered by Europeans?

 

[Brain357]

Sounds like smart guns are way more reliable than the crazy claims being made:

Robert Spitzer, a SUNY Cortland political science professor and author of The Politics of Gun Control (whom Hayes brought in after Pratt to talk about the issue), said in order for the Armatix iP1 gun to be sold in California, it had to pass a reliability test.

"The standard was a 99 percent successful fire rate, which it met (fire 600 times with 6 or fewer failed discharges)," Spitzer said.

Others stressed that all guns are prone to failure at some point. The mechanical failure rate is often given as 1 in 1,000, and a military weapon’s failure rate is closer to 1 in 10,000, Sebastian said.

"Misfire is embedded in our language," he said.

Gun advocate Larry Pratt says 'smart guns' fail 20 percent of the time

if you love it so much...you buy it...just don't try to force normal people to buy one.

No place you can buy one here.

 

[2aguy]

You mean like any other tool?

Yeah, why not?

Interesting. How many children have accidentally hammered themselves to death?

Far more chilluns die in swimming pools, car accidents and choking on hot dogs than die from accidental gun discharge.

Shall we ban swimming pools, cars and hot dogs too?

Whoa, whoa, whoa gun grabber, who said anything about banning?

swimming pools, cars and hot dogs...what do these three have in common? Oh, yes. regulation.

Now, other than that, just out of curiosity, where are your stats? You might want to include hammers since that was the specific tool we were talking about.

Guns are one of the most regulated industries in the country.....

I don't have to put a fence around my gun, my pool is another matter.

Guns are just as regulated...try leaving one alone in your yard and let a kid get hurt with it...see what happens to you....

 

[westwall]

Having a car that you can't get into is a far cry from needing to use your gun and having it not function. Especially if you are at home and a home invader has broken down your door. Don't you think?

The chance of that happening is about nil. First nobody will probably ever break in. Second according to the pro gunners you won't have to actually fire the gun. Third it is extremely unlikely to malfunction.

The best pistol out there claims 90%. Now. Take 10 cookies, add cyanide to one of them. Put them in a bowl. Choose one and eat it.

And since the likelyhood of ever needing to fire in defense is quite astronomical what is the problem?

ask all the actual victims of rape, robbery, murder, kidnapping...your claim is not 100%.....so therefore you have no idea what you are talking about.......

also ask the 12 million people murdered by the Europeans......they will tell you they needed guns too...

You are one of the people always claiming guns aren't even fired in defense. Are you now claiming they are often fired in defense? Is that something you really want to do?

When were 12 million people murdered by Europeans?

No. He claims the MAJORITY of them are not fired. You, being the dishonest debater that you are misrepresent what he says. Why is that? Are you simply not smart enough to engage in a discussion without lying?

 

[2aguy]

As opposed to the anyone who picks it up gets to use it variety?

You mean like any other tool?

Yeah, why not?

Interesting. How many children have accidentally hammered themselves to death?

Kids...and how they die in the United States...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Kids murdered by guns....

under 1: 12
age 1-4: 39

age 5-14: 142

total gun murder of children.....193



Kids murdered by other means...

under 1: 270
age 1-4: 298
age 5-14: 135



murder of children by other means.....703
Now, if even if you include gun accidents into the total.....

you are still wrong....

Accidental death by gun for children....

under 1: 3
age 1-4: 27
age 5-14: 39

Total accidental gun death for kids 2013....69

 

[HappyJoy]

Interesting. How many children have accidentally hammered themselves to death?

Far more chilluns die in swimming pools, car accidents and choking on hot dogs than die from accidental gun discharge.

Shall we ban swimming pools, cars and hot dogs too?

Whoa, whoa, whoa gun grabber, who said anything about banning?

swimming pools, cars and hot dogs...what do these three have in common? Oh, yes. regulation.

Now, other than that, just out of curiosity, where are your stats? You might want to include hammers since that was the specific tool we were talking about.

Guns are one of the most regulated industries in the country.....

I don't have to put a fence around my gun, my pool is another matter.

Guns are just as regulated...try leaving one alone in your yard and let a kid get hurt with it...see what happens to you....

Is it illegal? By law I have to lock all my gates, windows and access areas to my pool, my gun I can leave on my gun out in the open and it's perfectly legal. Not to mention the permits for the fucking pool, the licensed contractors...oh no, the gub'ment knows I have a pool, not a clue about my gun, just a 2 second call to verify.

By far my pool has more regulations that would make the average gun owner in my neighborhood shit his pants and I can't take it with me.

 

[BULLDOG]

Maybe the $10,000 price tag and questionable reliability? A lot of people die in drug and alcohol related car crashes. What about a "smart car" that wouldn't run if it detected drugs or alcohol or all persons required to wear a helmet in a car? Think anyone would go for it?

A device capable of detecting alcohol is a device commonly required for people who have been convicted of DUI. Been in service for years.

 

[Brain357]

The chance of that happening is about nil. First nobody will probably ever break in. Second according to the pro gunners you won't have to actually fire the gun. Third it is extremely unlikely to malfunction.

The best pistol out there claims 90%. Now. Take 10 cookies, add cyanide to one of them. Put them in a bowl. Choose one and eat it.

And since the likelyhood of ever needing to fire in defense is quite astronomical what is the problem?

ask all the actual victims of rape, robbery, murder, kidnapping...your claim is not 100%.....so therefore you have no idea what you are talking about.......

also ask the 12 million people murdered by the Europeans......they will tell you they needed guns too...

You are one of the people always claiming guns aren't even fired in defense. Are you now claiming they are often fired in defense? Is that something you really want to do?

When were 12 million people murdered by Europeans?

No. He claims the MAJORITY of them are not fired. You, being the dishonest debater that you are misrepresent what he says. Why is that? Are you simply not smart enough to engage in a discussion without lying?

Yes the vast majority don't even require firing. That is what he claims.

 

[BULLDOG]

The chance of that happening is about nil. First nobody will probably ever break in. Second according to the pro gunners you won't have to actually fire the gun. Third it is extremely unlikely to malfunction.

The best pistol out there claims 90%. Now. Take 10 cookies, add cyanide to one of them. Put them in a bowl. Choose one and eat it.

I hardly believe the best technology out there is some proposed gun from more than two years ago. There have probably been 4 generations of advancement since then. I'm guessing you feel good enough to continue conversations, but still not good enough to back up your claims.That's OK. It's what I usually expect.

Find one. I follow gun technology closely. Not one of them can even approach 99% reliability. The best I have ever seen is 90% and that is a weapon that has not undergone rigorous real world testing. Armitex just recently went out odf business and theirs was the best of the bunch. However, their pistol cost 1800 dollars. And it was a .22LR. No one in their right mind would ever rely on a .22 for self defense purposes. They chose .22 because the recoil impulse from anything bigger destroyed the hardware that made their pistol smart.

Further you had to wear a watch to make the combo work. Watches need batteries. Watches fail etc. etc. etc. So, you have a weapon that only works 90% of the time. Cost four times more than a comparable non smart pistol and was useless for the purpose it was made for.

Got any other points you wish me to address?

Low power RFID chips that can run for years on a button battery and have better than 99.9% accuracy are available for $0.39 each from Digikey. I don't think the technology is a problem.

And YET a State that was going to mandate a smart firearm law shelved the idea when it was proven it DOES NOT WORK.

It wasn't proven not to work. Right wingers claimed it did not work despite the documented tests that showed it did.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Gun rights advocates will say they are a form of gun control and a violation of the second amendment rights. I say abide by the second amendment by owning a musket.

Very good point. When the Second Amendment was written, "arms" meant a very different thing than it does now. At that time not even the Minié Ball had been invented. To read the Amendment literally, I should be allowed to bear a fighter jet or a nuclear missile if I want to.

You've never heard of the Honorable Artillery Company of Boston have you...... A PRIVATE artillery company that was active with artillery till WWI. Then the artillery simply became too expensive for them to maintain their batteries. The group still exists however.

Nothing in the 2A says I have to own the arms -- just "bear" them.

Nothing in the 2A says you have to bear them either.

 

[Brain357]

As opposed to the anyone who picks it up gets to use it variety?

You mean like any other tool?

Yeah, why not?

Interesting. How many children have accidentally hammered themselves to death?

Kids...and how they die in the United States...

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

Kids murdered by guns....

under 1: 12
age 1-4: 39

age 5-14: 142

total gun murder of children.....193



Kids murdered by other means...

under 1: 270
age 1-4: 298
age 5-14: 135



murder of children by other means.....703
Now, if even if you include gun accidents into the total.....

you are still wrong....

Accidental death by gun for children....

under 1: 3
age 1-4: 27
age 5-14: 39

Total accidental gun death for kids 2013....69

How many kids are accidently killed by guns in Germany each year?