Where Loyalties Lie

[BULLDOG]

His target audience aren't democrats.

actually THAT would shake things up. He should have been a democrat.

You're right. He's not playing to Democrats. He's playing to crazies.

 

[Wildman]

* "We shall uphold this country's democratic values as embodied in the Constitution and shall dedicate ourselves to the preservation of liberty and justice for all"

and then.., there is this:

Republican form of government

The Republican Form of government is one in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whom those powers are specially delegated. Unlike the democratic form of government, in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the whole body of free citizens, individuals retain sovereign prerogatives over their private property rights (absolute ownership) of their person, labor and property.
The U.S. Constitution guarantees a republican form to the states. (See Art.4,Sec.4)
nothing demoncratic about this, is there??

 

[NYcarbineer]

* "We shall uphold this country's democratic values as embodied in the Constitution and shall dedicate ourselves to the preservation of liberty and justice for all"

and then.., there is this:

Republican form of government

The Republican Form of government is one in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whom those powers are specially delegated. Unlike the democratic form of government, in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the whole body of free citizens, individuals retain sovereign prerogatives over their private property rights (absolute ownership) of their person, labor and property.
The U.S. Constitution guarantees a republican form to the states. (See Art.4,Sec.4)
nothing demoncratic about this, is there??

That is so wrong it's painful.

 

[imawhosure]

And the answer to the republicans betraying their base is to vote in a liberal? Are you serious? You show those bad GOP, if they keep acting like liberals rather than conservatives we will show them by electing a liberal as their candidate. That will show them. Not sure how or why.

Eh?

That's not even close to what I said.

You missed the point completely. There are claims out there that GOP donors would much rather vote for Hillary in the general election if Trump were the nominee. That even such a claim (irregardless of its veracity) would come up speaks to the loyalty of the party to the front runner. The supposed willingness to put Hillary in the White House amid their hatred for Trump should tell you how afraid some people are of Trump.

Taking a ‘puerile’ attitude is demanding that someone support a shit candidate because the other guy is worse.

I'm not making demands of anyone, if anything I want fairness in the nominating process. What I meant by "puerile" is having your own party collaborate against you because they're afraid of what you might do to them if you were nominated.

Think about this:

Trump was made to sign a loyalty pledge to the Republican Party after his comments in the first debate. Yet, the party four months afterwards was considering a brokered convention as a way to avoid a Trump nomination. How's that for loyalty? This prompted Ben Carson to threaten to leave the party (though he didn't).

GOP preparing for contested convention

I guess I have an outdated view on loyalty, though. But if you're demanding loyalty from someone, you need to be loyal to them in return. No questions asked. Before demanding loyalty of him, you should pay attention to what your party is doing.

Is this the Republican way? Or is this simply Chicago style politics in action? Are they really prepared to disenfranchise those voters who choose to vote for Trump as the nominee?

I would agree with you that donating or voting for Hillary as a republican because you don't like Trump seems rather asinine. I was not really speaking to that idea though - the idea that Trump is not a liberal belies many of his positions.

The brokered convention is another story and that is not a way to 'deal' with Trump but rather an actual possibility that should be talked about. You need a majority or there is a brokered convention and they can pick anyone - that is simply the rules. It is not a plan of any sort but rather something that the GOP fears - they do NOT want to select Trump but should he have more than anyone else they are going to be forced into it. I doubt that Trump will gain over 50% - the problem is that even though he is the front runner I don't really know anyone that will vote for him in the primaries that is not already doing so. If the field stays as it is - it almost certainly will be brokered. If we get into a one on one then I see Trump as likely losing.

I respect your opinion FA, but the GOP has a "path" problem. The only way to knock out of the box is either to coalesce around Cruz who they do not want, or talk some of their establishment candidates to drop so they can garner support for one.

Suppose they choose the latter! What happens to the anti-establishment vote then, along with the blue collar Democrats? You see the problem?

The GOP no doubt, has the votes to win this election going away because they have some blue collar Democratic support..........and people are re-signing up to vote to knock the establishment out of the box, but the establishment doesn't want ANY of the people who command these votes to be their standard bearer!

All you need do is look at the polls------------> the excitement from either party is NOT being generated by establishment candidates, it is being driven by non-establishment. They are the ones getting NEW voters, they are the ones going to rallies, they are the ones demanding change; albeit in opposite directions.

I think you can answer this question honestly.............if it is Hilly versus Bush, who wins? Hilly V Kasich? Hilly V Christie? And if it is Hilly V Rubio, regardless of who/whom wins, how much different will anything actually be with the things that Americans are demanding change on? And in all these races, how many of the NEW/pissed voters stay home?

So you see, politics are very strange indeed. The path to victory for Hilly is much easier for sure if the new/pissed/re-registered voters find themselves without a candidate. The left is banking on this, and the GOP is contemplating it. From what I see, if those voters do not appear at the polls, the Democrat wins! That is why internal voting is sooooo important, and NOT what general polling this far out says.

Solutions? There are always solutions, and it is up to the GOP to find one that keeps these voters on board, and makes most of their voters happy. If they become creative and succeed, it is Katie bar the door on the Democrat. If not.......well, we should all shudder to think!

 

[Moonglow]

Gay Men Touch Vagina For The First Time WooW
Gay Men Touch Vagina For The First Time!.mp4 | openloadView attachment 60839

I should act ghey, I usually have to pay to do that..

 

[candycorn]

This thread is a lot of fun.

What makes you trust Trump is that you can't trust him....

You should hand Hillary the Presidency now and save us a lot of needless hullabaloo

 

[imawhosure]

This thread is a lot of fun.

What makes you trust Trump is that you can't trust him....

You should hand Hillary the Presidency now and save us a lot of needless hullabaloo

Candy, if you are privy to internals then you are blowing smoke towards someones derriere, if you are not, then it is probably a good thing for you, as you might need a bottle of Pepto, and some Zanex too!

Carry on, lol!

 

[Kosh]

His target audience aren't democrats.

actually THAT would shake things up. He should have been a democrat.

You're right. He's not playing to Democrats. He's playing to crazies.

Then why you are far left drones not voting for Trump?

 

[Kosh]

Trump is a "progressive" acting like a "progressive"..

 

[The Great Goose]

Trump is a "progressive" acting like a "progressive"..

He's the complete opposite.

 

[Kosh]

Trump is a "progressive" acting like a "progressive"..

He's the complete opposite.

Nope! Just because he has the (R) next to his name does not change who he is.

 

[The Great Goose]

Trump is a "progressive" acting like a "progressive"..

He's the complete opposite.

Nope! Just because he has the (R) next to his name does not change who he is.

Being racist and sexist sure as hell does. Progressives are barking mad at him.

 

[Kosh]

Trump is a "progressive" acting like a "progressive"..

He's the complete opposite.

Nope! Just because he has the (R) next to his name does not change who he is.

Being racist and sexist sure as hell does. Progressives are barking mad at him.

Running far left narratives is not the way to prove your point! As the far left hates anything and everyone not far left.

And yes Trump is acting like a "progressive"!

 

[The Great Goose]

Trump is a "progressive" acting like a "progressive"..

He's the complete opposite.

Nope! Just because he has the (R) next to his name does not change who he is.

Being racist and sexist sure as hell does. Progressives are barking mad at him.

Running far left narratives is not the way to prove your point! As the far left hates anything and everyone not far left.

And yes Trump is acting like a "progressive"!

 

[FA_Q2]

And the answer to the republicans betraying their base is to vote in a liberal? Are you serious? You show those bad GOP, if they keep acting like liberals rather than conservatives we will show them by electing a liberal as their candidate. That will show them. Not sure how or why.

Eh?

That's not even close to what I said.

You missed the point completely. There are claims out there that GOP donors would much rather vote for Hillary in the general election if Trump were the nominee. That even such a claim (irregardless of its veracity) would come up speaks to the loyalty of the party to the front runner. The supposed willingness to put Hillary in the White House amid their hatred for Trump should tell you how afraid some people are of Trump.

Taking a ‘puerile’ attitude is demanding that someone support a shit candidate because the other guy is worse.

I'm not making demands of anyone, if anything I want fairness in the nominating process. What I meant by "puerile" is having your own party collaborate against you because they're afraid of what you might do to them if you were nominated.

Think about this:

Trump was made to sign a loyalty pledge to the Republican Party after his comments in the first debate. Yet, the party four months afterwards was considering a brokered convention as a way to avoid a Trump nomination. How's that for loyalty? This prompted Ben Carson to threaten to leave the party (though he didn't).

GOP preparing for contested convention

I guess I have an outdated view on loyalty, though. But if you're demanding loyalty from someone, you need to be loyal to them in return. No questions asked. Before demanding loyalty of him, you should pay attention to what your party is doing.

Is this the Republican way? Or is this simply Chicago style politics in action? Are they really prepared to disenfranchise those voters who choose to vote for Trump as the nominee?

I would agree with you that donating or voting for Hillary as a republican because you don't like Trump seems rather asinine. I was not really speaking to that idea though - the idea that Trump is not a liberal belies many of his positions.

The brokered convention is another story and that is not a way to 'deal' with Trump but rather an actual possibility that should be talked about. You need a majority or there is a brokered convention and they can pick anyone - that is simply the rules. It is not a plan of any sort but rather something that the GOP fears - they do NOT want to select Trump but should he have more than anyone else they are going to be forced into it. I doubt that Trump will gain over 50% - the problem is that even though he is the front runner I don't really know anyone that will vote for him in the primaries that is not already doing so. If the field stays as it is - it almost certainly will be brokered. If we get into a one on one then I see Trump as likely losing.

I respect your opinion FA, but the GOP has a "path" problem. The only way to knock out of the box is either to coalesce around Cruz who they do not want, or talk some of their establishment candidates to drop so they can garner support for one.

While true, I don’t see what you are getting at in relation to my comments. The above really has nothing to do with what I stated. The path problem that the right has does not change the reality of a brokered convention. Further, I do not think that it is accurate to state that they need to coalesce around Cruz – they need to coalesce around SOMEONE. It does not have to be Cruz.

Suppose they choose the latter! What happens to the anti-establishment vote then, along with the blue collar Democrats? You see the problem?

Not really. The anti-establishment right is going to vote against Hillary. Who manages to get the republican nomination is rather irrelevant. IF, and that is a really big if, they manage to use a brokered convention to pull a candidate that is not the clear majority (use it to out Trump) that is another story altogether which is why I stated that they will be forced to select him should he have a clear majority. There might be some room to play there if we are talking a 44 to 43 split or something along those lines.

The GOP no doubt, has the votes to win this election going away because they have some blue collar Democratic support..........and people are re-signing up to vote to knock the establishment out of the box, but the establishment doesn't want ANY of the people who command these votes to be their standard bearer!

All you need do is look at the polls------------> the excitement from either party is NOT being generated by establishment candidates, it is being driven by non-establishment. They are the ones getting NEW voters, they are the ones going to rallies, they are the ones demanding change; albeit in opposite directions.

I think you can answer this question honestly.............if it is Hilly versus Bush, who wins? Hilly V Kasich? Hilly V Christie? And if it is Hilly V Rubio, regardless of who/whom wins, how much different will anything actually be with the things that Americans are demanding change on? And in all these races, how many of the NEW/pissed voters stay home?

The same questions ring true with Hillary vs Trump or Cruz. She will easily beat them both. The only canidate that I see having a real shot is Rubio. Will things be different with Rubio? Not really sure and I will not be until further in the election cycle.

I have to wonder when Rubio became ‘establishment’ anyway? What makes him establishment? Honestly, the general consensus seems to be anyone that is not Trump or Cruz is suddenly establishment and that just seems asinine to me. Bush is the clear establishment candidate and also a clear loser in anything related to this election. Kasich is the clear centrist IMHO. He is also not going to win any elections anytime soon.

The establishment is out of this one. The only real reason that they fear Trump is because they know that Trump has zero chance to take the general.

So you see, politics are very strange indeed. The path to victory for Hilly is much easier for sure if the new/pissed/re-registered voters find themselves without a candidate. The left is banking on this, and the GOP is contemplating it. From what I see, if those voters do not appear at the polls, the Democrat wins! That is why internal voting is sooooo important, and NOT what general polling this far out says.

Solutions? There are always solutions, and it is up to the GOP to find one that keeps these voters on board, and makes most of their voters happy. If they become creative and succeed, it is Katie bar the door on the Democrat. If not.......well, we should all shudder to think!

The path to victory is just as easy if the ‘new/pissed’ voters as you call them get their choice as well. What the GOP needs is a candidate that draws the right and the center. This idea that the right can win on its own without the center is asinine. They can’t. That does not mean that you run a candidate that looks like a democrat or centrist though – it means you run a candidate that appeals to the base with strong core values and ideals yet is appeals to the center as reasoned and able to work with the other side to get reasonable legislation passed. Trump is playing the hard liner – there is simply no way that he is going to pull the rest of America over to his side with the way he is playing it that I can see.