Which Came First Creation Or Evolution?

[ding]

The laws of nature existed before space and time.

So did energy. By your logic that makes energy your God.

No, that is your logic. My logic is based upon the solution to the first cause conundrum. Which is no thing which is eternal and unchanging. By definition it can be no thing. Not matter, not energy.

So, no, energy as we know it could not have existed forever. Please tell me more nonsense about the TLOT

Your "logic" is illogical as it has been proven that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Your pontificating your own "definition" cannot disprove the repeatable experiment that proved that energy can neither be created nor destroyed. That is the most basic Law of science, proving you know less than nothing about science.

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

 

[ding]

Biological evolution doesn't apply to inorganic matter.
Don't you know anything about science?

I know a hell of a lot more about science than you!
Do inorganic atoms evolve into more complex molecules?
Why yes, yes they do!

I doubt you do. Most militant atheists are idiots.

Only to idiot know-it-alls!

No. To anyone who knows anything at all.

Well that lets you out, you know nothing at all.

I know that as time approaches infinity, matter and energy approach thermal equilibrium.

 

[ding]

ed can't explain his way out of a wet paper bag.

 

[edthecynic]

So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool.

You contradict yourself and your ego prevents you from seeing it!
"Very high energy" is NOT "nothing."

I know a hell of a lot more about science than you!
Do inorganic atoms evolve into more complex molecules?
Why yes, yes they do!

I doubt you do. Most militant atheists are idiots.

Only to idiot know-it-alls!

No. To anyone who knows anything at all.

Well that lets you out, you know nothing at all.

I know that as time approaches infinity, matter and energy approach thermal equilibrium.

We went over this before, thermal equilibrium violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics. No amount of pontification will change that.

 

[Taz]

Evolution.

Biological evolution doesn't apply to inorganic matter.

Don't you know anything about science?

Yes, I know that science hasn't proven a god.

God loves science. He created it.

Prove it scientifically then.

Sure. The laws of nature existed before space and time.

You'd have to prove that scientifically, although I'm not completely against the idea of laws existing before our universe came about, because we could be not the first universe to pop up, so general laws for universes makes some sense.

 

[BreezeWood]

although I'm not completely against the idea of laws existing before our universe came about, because we could be not the first universe to pop up, so general laws for universes makes some sense.

not the first universe to pop up -

as a reference, is there a distinction between cosmos and universe, as in what would a universe "pop up" in ....

 

[ding]

So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool.

You contradict yourself and your ego prevents you from seeing it!
"Very high energy" is NOT "nothing."

I doubt you do. Most militant atheists are idiots.

Only to idiot know-it-alls!

No. To anyone who knows anything at all.

Well that lets you out, you know nothing at all.

I know that as time approaches infinity, matter and energy approach thermal equilibrium.

We went over this before, thermal equilibrium violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics. No amount of pontification will change that.

You are literally a moron. The very high energy is the inflation event. Not the moment preceding inflation.

 

[ding]

So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool.

You contradict yourself and your ego prevents you from seeing it!
"Very high energy" is NOT "nothing."

I doubt you do. Most militant atheists are idiots.

Only to idiot know-it-alls!

No. To anyone who knows anything at all.

Well that lets you out, you know nothing at all.

I know that as time approaches infinity, matter and energy approach thermal equilibrium.

We went over this before, thermal equilibrium violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics. No amount of pontification will change that.

Your TLOT argument is mumbo jumbo. It makes no sense at all.

 

[ding]

Biological evolution doesn't apply to inorganic matter.

Don't you know anything about science?

Yes, I know that science hasn't proven a god.

God loves science. He created it.

Prove it scientifically then.

Sure. The laws of nature existed before space and time.

You'd have to prove that scientifically, although I'm not completely against the idea of laws existing before our universe came about, because we could be not the first universe to pop up, so general laws for universes makes some sense.

The inflation theory proves it. I even provided a link for it.

How else do you think space and time were created if it were not created under laws of nature.

 

[Taz]

Yes, I know that science hasn't proven a god.

God loves science. He created it.

Prove it scientifically then.

Sure. The laws of nature existed before space and time.

You'd have to prove that scientifically, although I'm not completely against the idea of laws existing before our universe came about, because we could be not the first universe to pop up, so general laws for universes makes some sense.

The inflation theory proves it. I even provided a link for it.

How else do you think space and time were created if it were not created under laws of nature.

You should buy yourself a dictionary and look up "proof", because that ain't it. Even if I agreed with what you say, I'd still say that it's a possibility, not actual proof.

 

[edthecynic]

So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool.

You contradict yourself and your ego prevents you from seeing it!
"Very high energy" is NOT "nothing."

Only to idiot know-it-alls!

No. To anyone who knows anything at all.

Well that lets you out, you know nothing at all.

I know that as time approaches infinity, matter and energy approach thermal equilibrium.

We went over this before, thermal equilibrium violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics. No amount of pontification will change that.

Your TLOT argument is mumbo jumbo. It makes no sense at all.

Only to those ignorant of the Laws of science.

 

[edthecynic]

How else do you think space and time were created if it were not created under laws of nature.

Thank you for admitting they are the Laws of NATURE and not of God!

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.
- Frank Lloyd Wright

 

[edthecynic]

So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool.

You contradict yourself and your ego prevents you from seeing it!
"Very high energy" is NOT "nothing."

Only to idiot know-it-alls!

No. To anyone who knows anything at all.

Well that lets you out, you know nothing at all.

I know that as time approaches infinity, matter and energy approach thermal equilibrium.

We went over this before, thermal equilibrium violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics. No amount of pontification will change that.

You are literally a moron. The very high energy is the inflation event. Not the moment preceding inflation.

Energy is STILL something and NOT nothing, before during and after inflation.

 

[ding]

So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool.

You contradict yourself and your ego prevents you from seeing it!
"Very high energy" is NOT "nothing."

No. To anyone who knows anything at all.

Well that lets you out, you know nothing at all.

I know that as time approaches infinity, matter and energy approach thermal equilibrium.

We went over this before, thermal equilibrium violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics. No amount of pontification will change that.

Your TLOT argument is mumbo jumbo. It makes no sense at all.

Only to those ignorant of the Laws of science.

Then provide a link that proves it, Ed.

 

[ding]

So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool.

You contradict yourself and your ego prevents you from seeing it!
"Very high energy" is NOT "nothing."

No. To anyone who knows anything at all.

Well that lets you out, you know nothing at all.

I know that as time approaches infinity, matter and energy approach thermal equilibrium.

We went over this before, thermal equilibrium violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics. No amount of pontification will change that.

You are literally a moron. The very high energy is the inflation event. Not the moment preceding inflation.

Energy is STILL something and NOT nothing, before during and after inflation.

Space and time didn’t exist before inflation.

 

[ding]

How else do you think space and time were created if it were not created under laws of nature.

Thank you for admitting they are the Laws of NATURE and not of God!

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.
- Frank Lloyd Wright

Where do you think they came from?

 

[edthecynic]

So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool.

You contradict yourself and your ego prevents you from seeing it!
"Very high energy" is NOT "nothing."

Well that lets you out, you know nothing at all.

I know that as time approaches infinity, matter and energy approach thermal equilibrium.

We went over this before, thermal equilibrium violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics. No amount of pontification will change that.

Your TLOT argument is mumbo jumbo. It makes no sense at all.

Only to those ignorant of the Laws of science.

Then provide a link that proves it, Ed.

as has been shown to you many times before, according to the TLoT, there is no temperature at which all motion stops, therefore no thermal equilibrium.

 

[Taz]

So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool.

You contradict yourself and your ego prevents you from seeing it!
"Very high energy" is NOT "nothing."

Well that lets you out, you know nothing at all.

I know that as time approaches infinity, matter and energy approach thermal equilibrium.

We went over this before, thermal equilibrium violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics. No amount of pontification will change that.

You are literally a moron. The very high energy is the inflation event. Not the moment preceding inflation.

Energy is STILL something and NOT nothing, before during and after inflation.

Space and time didn’t exist before inflation.

Not the time and space of this universe, but they possibly already existed in others before.

 

[edthecynic]

How else do you think space and time were created if it were not created under laws of nature.

Thank you for admitting they are the Laws of NATURE and not of God!

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.
- Frank Lloyd Wright

Where do you think they came from?

NATURE!!!
DUH!

 

[ding]

So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool.

You contradict yourself and your ego prevents you from seeing it!
"Very high energy" is NOT "nothing."

I know that as time approaches infinity, matter and energy approach thermal equilibrium.

We went over this before, thermal equilibrium violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics. No amount of pontification will change that.

Your TLOT argument is mumbo jumbo. It makes no sense at all.

Only to those ignorant of the Laws of science.

Then provide a link that proves it, Ed.

as has been shown to you many times before, according to the TLoT, there is no temperature at which all motion stops, therefore no thermal equilibrium.

You have a hard time understanding infinity.

Where’s you link?