Which of Your Rights Will They Go After....

[PoliticalChic]

For that matter, why am I paying for all the 'aliens' unalienable right to life .....??????

~S~

Maybe you don't. I'll bet you wouldn't bitch to find out that aliens without papers are paying $12 BILLION DOLLARS a year into Socialist Security and can never draw a thin dime out in retirement.

The honest answer is, in their zeal to get rid of little brown people from south of the border, the right propped up a plank out of the Communist Manifesto, sabotaging the effort to eliminate the 16th Amendment and rid this country of the IRS - which would have given you a minimum 25 percent wage increase and INSURE that, regardless of your status in this country, you were taxed the same as everyone else. It would have taken that annoying argument off the table.

The conclusion you are suggesting about illegals adding to our economy is incorrect.

The claim is that the economy needs these illegals.
"...undocumented immigrants are paying billions of dollar in taxes into state and local coffers, and that substantially more would be generated if President Obama prevails in imposing a new executive order protecting many of those workers from deportation."
Study Finds Illegal Immigrants Pay $11.8B in Taxes


But the facts aren't their friend...

“The conservative Heritage Foundation estimated unlawful immigrant households paid $39.2 billion in 2010, but received $93.7 billion in government services.” -- Oliver Darcy

[So much for that fable.]
15 Stats That Destroy Liberal Narratives




And, the money taken from working Americans is sent to Mexico by these Mexican citizens....more money than the

"Remittances totaled more than oil income

Money sent from abroad came to $24.8 billion last year, up 4.75%

Mexico News Daily | Tuesday, February 2, 2016

Remittances sent home by Mexicans working outside the country surpassed [Mexican] petroleum revenues in 2015 for the first time.

There was a 4.75% increase in money sent from abroad, most of which comes from the U.S., to total US $24.8 billion last year, up from $23.6 billion in 2014, said the Bank of México.


The bank said it was the first time remittances had totaled more than petroleum revenues since it began tracking them in 1995.


Oil revenues last year totaled $23.4 billion."
Remittances totaled more than Mexico's oil income



In short, illegals are a net drain on the economy, and serve one purpose only: to do what Americans won't do: vote Democrat.

 

[Humorme]

For that matter, why am I paying for all the 'aliens' unalienable right to life .....??????

~S~

Maybe you don't. I'll bet you wouldn't bitch to find out that aliens without papers are paying $12 BILLION DOLLARS a year into Socialist Security and can never draw a thin dime out in retirement.

The honest answer is, in their zeal to get rid of little brown people from south of the border, the right propped up a plank out of the Communist Manifesto, sabotaging the effort to eliminate the 16th Amendment and rid this country of the IRS - which would have given you a minimum 25 percent wage increase and INSURE that, regardless of your status in this country, you were taxed the same as everyone else. It would have taken that annoying argument off the table.

The conclusion you are suggesting about illegals adding to our economy is incorrect.

The claim is that the economy needs these illegals.
"...undocumented immigrants are paying billions of dollar in taxes into state and local coffers, and that substantially more would be generated if President Obama prevails in imposing a new executive order protecting many of those workers from deportation."
Study Finds Illegal Immigrants Pay $11.8B in Taxes


But the facts aren't their friend...

“The conservative Heritage Foundation estimated unlawful immigrant households paid $39.2 billion in 2010, but received $93.7 billion in government services.” -- Oliver Darcy

[So much for that fable.]
15 Stats That Destroy Liberal Narratives




And, the money taken from working Americans is sent to Mexico by these Mexican citizens....more money than the

"Remittances totaled more than oil income

Money sent from abroad came to $24.8 billion last year, up 4.75%

Mexico News Daily | Tuesday, February 2, 2016

Remittances sent home by Mexicans working outside the country surpassed [Mexican] petroleum revenues in 2015 for the first time.

There was a 4.75% increase in money sent from abroad, most of which comes from the U.S., to total US $24.8 billion last year, up from $23.6 billion in 2014, said the Bank of México.


The bank said it was the first time remittances had totaled more than petroleum revenues since it began tracking them in 1995.


Oil revenues last year totaled $23.4 billion."
Remittances totaled more than Mexico's oil income



In short, illegals are a net drain on the economy, and serve one purpose only: to do what Americans won't do: vote Democrat.

I've been in this "debate" on the Internet alone for over 15 years. If you want to rehash it, we can, but some of your sources are less than impartial. And I see what your U.S. Congressmen and Senators see.

Without a lot of B.S.:

A) Your numbers don't add up

B) Your numbers don't factor in a lot of things (mainly the contributions by foreigners) - like increased production for a lower wage.

C) The fact that you can advertise for people to do certain jobs - and I do it all the time, where no Americans will do the job, proves that there exists a need for those people.

Now, the fact is, and it would be ridiculous to try and refute it, the cheap labor is good for America. I'll prove that with one man. Donald Trump would not spend money if it were not profitable. And the man has knowingly hired undocumented foreigners.

Look, there is no point in arguing with me. I was on the border more than a decade and a half ago when the Tea Party and Minutemen screwed the pooch on this issue. And what you're arguing is actually leftist propaganda aimed at making you LOSE long term.

The undocumented foreigners ARE profitable for America. That's the problem. That is why they come here. But, the current strategies are not going to solve the issue; they are going to make it worse AND it will create a POLICE STATE that will make the gun control debate moot.

Just because the undocumented workers are profitable does not mean it is good for the average person like you or I. And so, we have to look at OUR weaknesses and we have to take ownership in our part of allowing foreigners to be profitable. One of those things is to deny the obvious. Partisan hacks don't tell you the truth. That is why you are losing your Rights while the problem isn't being solved.

We, as citizens have the ability to take ownership in our part of this. We, as Americans, must figure out that WE, NOT the government are, most likely, the best solution. You can argue all day long on these boards, but let me give you the real secret to never losing a case in court:

When you can argue your opposition's case better than he can and still hold your view relative to the facts, you will win the case. You cannot rely on what you think are the strengths of your own case to win.

In many instances, I see the anti-immigrant lobby using research I did myself more than 25 years ago. I seem to be the only person who understands the flaws in my own research.

 

[sparky]

For that matter, why am I paying for all the 'aliens' unalienable right to life .....??????

~S~

Maybe you don't. I'll bet you wouldn't bitch to find out that aliens without papers are paying $12 BILLION DOLLARS a year into Socialist Security and can never draw a thin dime out in retirement.

The honest answer is, in their zeal to get rid of little brown people from south of the border, the right propped up a plank out of the Communist Manifesto, sabotaging the effort to eliminate the 16th Amendment and rid this country of the IRS - which would have given you a minimum 25 percent wage increase and INSURE that, regardless of your status in this country, you were taxed the same as everyone else. It would have taken that annoying argument off the table.

Perhaps you're right Humorme

'Lil Brown folk are probably a much bigger biz than i had imagined

~S~

 

[sparky]

So if my 'life' is an unalienable right, why am i paying $$$$ for health insurance Chick?

~S~

I hope that was an attempt at humor....'cause, otherwise, it was a really stupid post.

Not really PChick

But you go on about your rights, posting the constitution , and declaring 'absolutes' you interpret them as

Always a fun read!

~S~

 

[sparky]

For that matter, why am I paying for all the 'aliens' unalienable right to life .....??????

~S~

Maybe you don't. I'll bet you wouldn't bitch to find out that aliens without papers are paying $12 BILLION DOLLARS a year into Socialist Security and can never draw a thin dime out in retirement.

The honest answer is, in their zeal to get rid of little brown people from south of the border, the right propped up a plank out of the Communist Manifesto, sabotaging the effort to eliminate the 16th Amendment and rid this country of the IRS - which would have given you a minimum 25 percent wage increase and INSURE that, regardless of your status in this country, you were taxed the same as everyone else. It would have taken that annoying argument off the table.

The conclusion you are suggesting about illegals adding to our economy is incorrect.

The claim is that the economy needs these illegals.
"...undocumented immigrants are paying billions of dollar in taxes into state and local coffers, and that substantially more would be generated if President Obama prevails in imposing a new executive order protecting many of those workers from deportation."
Study Finds Illegal Immigrants Pay $11.8B in Taxes


But the facts aren't their friend...

“The conservative Heritage Foundation estimated unlawful immigrant households paid $39.2 billion in 2010, but received $93.7 billion in government services.” -- Oliver Darcy

[So much for that fable.]
15 Stats That Destroy Liberal Narratives




And, the money taken from working Americans is sent to Mexico by these Mexican citizens....more money than the

"Remittances totaled more than oil income

Money sent from abroad came to $24.8 billion last year, up 4.75%

Mexico News Daily | Tuesday, February 2, 2016

Remittances sent home by Mexicans working outside the country surpassed [Mexican] petroleum revenues in 2015 for the first time.

There was a 4.75% increase in money sent from abroad, most of which comes from the U.S., to total US $24.8 billion last year, up from $23.6 billion in 2014, said the Bank of México.


The bank said it was the first time remittances had totaled more than petroleum revenues since it began tracking them in 1995.


Oil revenues last year totaled $23.4 billion."
Remittances totaled more than Mexico's oil income



In short, illegals are a net drain on the economy, and serve one purpose only: to do what Americans won't do: vote Democrat.

I've been in this "debate" on the Internet alone for over 15 years. If you want to rehash it, we can, but some of your sources are less than impartial. And I see what your U.S. Congressmen and Senators see.

Without a lot of B.S.:

A) Your numbers don't add up

B) Your numbers don't factor in a lot of things (mainly the contributions by foreigners) - like increased production for a lower wage.

C) The fact that you can advertise for people to do certain jobs - and I do it all the time, where no Americans will do the job, proves that there exists a need for those people.

Now, the fact is, and it would be ridiculous to try and refute it, the cheap labor is good for America. I'll prove that with one man. Donald Trump would not spend money if it were not profitable. And the man has knowingly hired undocumented foreigners.

Look, there is no point in arguing with me. I was on the border more than a decade and a half ago when the Tea Party and Minutemen screwed the pooch on this issue. And what you're arguing is actually leftist propaganda aimed at making you LOSE long term.

The undocumented foreigners ARE profitable for America. That's the problem. That is why they come here. But, the current strategies are not going to solve the issue; they are going to make it worse AND it will create a POLICE STATE that will make the gun control debate moot.

Just because the undocumented workers are profitable does not mean it is good for the average person like you or I. And so, we have to look at OUR weaknesses and we have to take ownership in our part of allowing foreigners to be profitable. One of those things is to deny the obvious. Partisan hacks don't tell you the truth. That is why you are losing your Rights while the problem isn't being solved.

We, as citizens have the ability to take ownership in our part of this. We, as Americans, must figure out that WE, NOT the government are, most likely, the best solution. You can argue all day long on these boards, but let me give you the real secret to never losing a case in court:

When you can argue your opposition's case better than he can and still hold your view relative to the facts, you will win the case. You cannot rely on what you think are the strengths of your own case to win.

In many instances, I see the anti-immigrant lobby using research I did myself more than 25 years ago. I seem to be the only person who understands the flaws in my own research.

I looked it all up once.

we've more holes in our HiB system than swiss cheese

so you see, corporatism in America loves cheap labor , and loves to bend all the immigration laws to obtain them

then have their political toadies blame illegals...

~S~

 

[PoliticalChic]

For that matter, why am I paying for all the 'aliens' unalienable right to life .....??????

~S~

Maybe you don't. I'll bet you wouldn't bitch to find out that aliens without papers are paying $12 BILLION DOLLARS a year into Socialist Security and can never draw a thin dime out in retirement.

The honest answer is, in their zeal to get rid of little brown people from south of the border, the right propped up a plank out of the Communist Manifesto, sabotaging the effort to eliminate the 16th Amendment and rid this country of the IRS - which would have given you a minimum 25 percent wage increase and INSURE that, regardless of your status in this country, you were taxed the same as everyone else. It would have taken that annoying argument off the table.

The conclusion you are suggesting about illegals adding to our economy is incorrect.

The claim is that the economy needs these illegals.
"...undocumented immigrants are paying billions of dollar in taxes into state and local coffers, and that substantially more would be generated if President Obama prevails in imposing a new executive order protecting many of those workers from deportation."
Study Finds Illegal Immigrants Pay $11.8B in Taxes


But the facts aren't their friend...

“The conservative Heritage Foundation estimated unlawful immigrant households paid $39.2 billion in 2010, but received $93.7 billion in government services.” -- Oliver Darcy

[So much for that fable.]
15 Stats That Destroy Liberal Narratives




And, the money taken from working Americans is sent to Mexico by these Mexican citizens....more money than the

"Remittances totaled more than oil income

Money sent from abroad came to $24.8 billion last year, up 4.75%

Mexico News Daily | Tuesday, February 2, 2016

Remittances sent home by Mexicans working outside the country surpassed [Mexican] petroleum revenues in 2015 for the first time.

There was a 4.75% increase in money sent from abroad, most of which comes from the U.S., to total US $24.8 billion last year, up from $23.6 billion in 2014, said the Bank of México.


The bank said it was the first time remittances had totaled more than petroleum revenues since it began tracking them in 1995.


Oil revenues last year totaled $23.4 billion."
Remittances totaled more than Mexico's oil income



In short, illegals are a net drain on the economy, and serve one purpose only: to do what Americans won't do: vote Democrat.

I've been in this "debate" on the Internet alone for over 15 years. If you want to rehash it, we can, but some of your sources are less than impartial. And I see what your U.S. Congressmen and Senators see.

Without a lot of B.S.:

A) Your numbers don't add up

B) Your numbers don't factor in a lot of things (mainly the contributions by foreigners) - like increased production for a lower wage.

C) The fact that you can advertise for people to do certain jobs - and I do it all the time, where no Americans will do the job, proves that there exists a need for those people.

Now, the fact is, and it would be ridiculous to try and refute it, the cheap labor is good for America. I'll prove that with one man. Donald Trump would not spend money if it were not profitable. And the man has knowingly hired undocumented foreigners.

Look, there is no point in arguing with me. I was on the border more than a decade and a half ago when the Tea Party and Minutemen screwed the pooch on this issue. And what you're arguing is actually leftist propaganda aimed at making you LOSE long term.

The undocumented foreigners ARE profitable for America. That's the problem. That is why they come here. But, the current strategies are not going to solve the issue; they are going to make it worse AND it will create a POLICE STATE that will make the gun control debate moot.

Just because the undocumented workers are profitable does not mean it is good for the average person like you or I. And so, we have to look at OUR weaknesses and we have to take ownership in our part of allowing foreigners to be profitable. One of those things is to deny the obvious. Partisan hacks don't tell you the truth. That is why you are losing your Rights while the problem isn't being solved.

We, as citizens have the ability to take ownership in our part of this. We, as Americans, must figure out that WE, NOT the government are, most likely, the best solution. You can argue all day long on these boards, but let me give you the real secret to never losing a case in court:

When you can argue your opposition's case better than he can and still hold your view relative to the facts, you will win the case. You cannot rely on what you think are the strengths of your own case to win.

In many instances, I see the anti-immigrant lobby using research I did myself more than 25 years ago. I seem to be the only person who understands the flaws in my own research.

1. There is no 'debate'....I'm simply explaining why you are incorrect.

2. Not only do my numbers add up....but they underestimate the damage to our economy and society that illegal aliens cause.

3. They take jobs from Americans, lower societal values, impose huge costs on our judicial system, schools, and hospitals, and they send $25 billion out of the country.

And...exacerbate the racial divide in this way:
Obama's US Civil Rights Commission, 2010 Report:
"The United States Commission on Civil Rights (Commission) is pleased to transmit this report, The Impact of Illegal Immigration on the Wages and Employment Opportunities of Black Workers. A panel of experts briefed members of the Commission on April 4, 2008 regarding the evidence for economic loss and job opportunity costs to black workers attributable to illegal immigration. The panelists also described non-economic factors contributing to the depression of black wages and employment rates.

Illegal immigration to the United States in recent decades has tended to depress both wages and employment rates for low-skilled American citizens, a disproportionate number of whom are black men."
http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/IllegImmig_10-14-10_430pm.pdf


4. Not to be overlooked by those.....you....looking to mitigate their debilitations, is their criminality:
Latest statistics from the US Sentencing Commission [ Topic]

Non-Citizens Federal Crimes:

22% of Murders

18% of Fraud

33% of Money Laundering

29% of Drug Trafficking

72% of Drug Possession


Get it????
Non-Citizens are FAR more likely to commit crimes that Americans are.


And these are only federal statistics.



5. Democrats....and I'll assume you vote Democrat, rely on the votes that Obama told the illegals to cast, to elect Democrats.
Palmieri admitted it:

Leaked Memo Confirms What We Already Knew About Democrats And Illegal Immigration

… a leaked document from the Center For American Progress (CAP) Action Fund shows what most of us have always known, but what Democrats like to pretend isn’t their reality.

Namely, the memo, in great detail, maps out how Democrats are relying on illegal immigration to prop up their political future.

“The fight to protect Dreamers is not only a moral imperative, it is also a critical component of the Democratic Party’s future electoral success,” reads Palmieri’s memo,…” Leaked Memo Confirms What We Already Knew About Democrats and Illegal Immigration




So....no, cheap labor is not enough considering all the ills associated with illegal immigration.


Wise up.

 

[Cecilie1200]

That is true, but I don't agree with getting firearms that way.

We have an unalienable Right to Life. Inherent in that Right is the unalienable Right to keep and bear Arms. We don't need the government's approval nor their permission.

But, it would be a Hell of a lot safer for all concerned if the left could acknowledge the Right.

Even with firearms behind a lock that requires a crow bar to defeat, you have morons saying that isn't enough. They are the same ones who think they can dictate to us what our lives are worth. You obey the law to the letter and when it don't work out, it's our fault their laws suck.

Unfortunately , we must learn to live and survive in an UNfree world.

Five fascists "Justices" will rule that we do not have an individual right to carry firearms. Please read Heller's dissenting opinion.


.

The dissenting opinion is worthless. It is the words of the losers. What scares the Hell out of me is the HOLDING. The holding is the law - period. Here is why Heller was the worst United States Supreme Court decision in my lifetime:

"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose..." District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

What the Hell do they mean, "like most rights?" The Bill of Rights is a limitation on government, NOT on the individual. What do they mean "most rights?" You mean some rights are unlimited and some aren't? So which ones does the Court think are are unlimited? Did you know that the first time the United States Supreme Court ruled on this, they said, that Right to keep and bear Arms is not a Right granted by the Constitution, NEITHER IS IT DEPENDENT ON THE CONSTITUTION.

The Right exists; it predates the Constitution; the feds don't have de jure jurisdiction to deny it and the Court had no authority to declare such a thing.

So firearms are what? a human right? like breathing?

~S~

The Right to keep and bear arms is an unalienable Right. Some synonyms for unalienable are inherent, natural, God given, and absolute.

An unalienable right ?

or 'natural' as opposed to 'legal' right?

interesting

so just how many unalienable rights do we have?

~S~

You talk like you've never heard this concept before, and you're utterly bewildered and thinking it's silly.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So if my 'life' is an unalienable right, why am i paying $$$$ for health insurance Chick?

~S~

Because protecting your life is YOUR job.

 

[Cecilie1200]

For that matter, why am I paying for all the 'aliens' unalienable right to life .....??????

~S~

You're not. You're paying to take care of and improve your life. If you don't want that, then don't pay for it. You seem to think a right to life involves other people putting in money and effort into improving it for you.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So if my 'life' is an unalienable right, why am i paying $$$$ for health insurance Chick?

~S~

I hope that was an attempt at humor....'cause, otherwise, it was a really stupid post.

Not really PChick

But you go on about your rights, posting the constitution , and declaring 'absolutes' you interpret them as

Always a fun read!

~S~

Not a matter of "interpreting". They're right there, in plain English (you know, if you can read beyond a grade-school level).

 

[Humorme]

For that matter, why am I paying for all the 'aliens' unalienable right to life .....??????

~S~

Maybe you don't. I'll bet you wouldn't bitch to find out that aliens without papers are paying $12 BILLION DOLLARS a year into Socialist Security and can never draw a thin dime out in retirement.

The honest answer is, in their zeal to get rid of little brown people from south of the border, the right propped up a plank out of the Communist Manifesto, sabotaging the effort to eliminate the 16th Amendment and rid this country of the IRS - which would have given you a minimum 25 percent wage increase and INSURE that, regardless of your status in this country, you were taxed the same as everyone else. It would have taken that annoying argument off the table.

Perhaps you're right Humorme

'Lil Brown folk are probably a much bigger biz than i had imagined

~S~

As a strict constructionist - and having worked in and around immigration law for six years, I have a unique perspective.

My resume with this issue goes back to the late 1970s. I have been on civilian border patrols. I knew ALL the major players personally between the 1970s and 1990s. I knew everybody all the way up to the current crop of anti-immigrant types that gutted the patriot organizations and civilian militias, recruiting people for this non - win effort.

After those people gutted the efforts to restore the Constitution, they began deflecting and not taking their ownership in the demise of our nation - the so-called "Patriot Act," National ID / REAL ID Act, Constitution Free Zone, evisceration of the Fourth Amendment, the end to the presumption of innocence / innocent until proven guilty.

Let's face it. David Duke, the ex-nazi turned KKK leader pioneered this effort. Then, once he abandoned it, Bill Clinton took on the job:



Once Clinton left office and Hitlery went all pro-immigration, the nazis moved back in and reclaimed their territory.


Both the Ds and the Rs are demagoguing this issue in order to take America away from our foundational principles. They are all going down different roads to the same destination. And nobody can reach what was once the civilian militias, conservative groups, etc.

 

[PoliticalChic]

For that matter, why am I paying for all the 'aliens' unalienable right to life .....??????

~S~

Maybe you don't. I'll bet you wouldn't bitch to find out that aliens without papers are paying $12 BILLION DOLLARS a year into Socialist Security and can never draw a thin dime out in retirement.

The honest answer is, in their zeal to get rid of little brown people from south of the border, the right propped up a plank out of the Communist Manifesto, sabotaging the effort to eliminate the 16th Amendment and rid this country of the IRS - which would have given you a minimum 25 percent wage increase and INSURE that, regardless of your status in this country, you were taxed the same as everyone else. It would have taken that annoying argument off the table.

Perhaps you're right Humorme

'Lil Brown folk are probably a much bigger biz than i had imagined

~S~

As a strict constructionist - and having worked in and around immigration law for six years, I have a unique perspective.

My resume with this issue goes back to the late 1970s. I have been on civilian border patrols. I knew ALL the major players personally between the 1970s and 1990s. I knew everybody all the way up to the current crop of anti-immigrant types that gutted the patriot organizations and civilian militias, recruiting people for this non - win effort.

After those people gutted the efforts to restore the Constitution, they began deflecting and not taking their ownership in the demise of our nation - the so-called "Patriot Act," National ID / REAL ID Act, Constitution Free Zone, evisceration of the Fourth Amendment, the end to the presumption of innocence / innocent until proven guilty.

Let's face it. David Duke, the ex-nazi turned KKK leader pioneered this effort. Then, once he abandoned it, Bill Clinton took on the job:



Once Clinton left office and Hitlery went all pro-immigration, the nazis moved back in and reclaimed their territory.


Both the Ds and the Rs are demagoguing this issue in order to take America away from our foundational principles. They are all going down different roads to the same destination. And nobody can reach what was once the civilian militias, conservative groups, etc.

Based on your vaunted 'expertise'.....are the Democrats working tirelessly to entice illegal aliens into the country?

 

[PoliticalChic]

For that matter, why am I paying for all the 'aliens' unalienable right to life .....??????

~S~

Maybe you don't. I'll bet you wouldn't bitch to find out that aliens without papers are paying $12 BILLION DOLLARS a year into Socialist Security and can never draw a thin dime out in retirement.

The honest answer is, in their zeal to get rid of little brown people from south of the border, the right propped up a plank out of the Communist Manifesto, sabotaging the effort to eliminate the 16th Amendment and rid this country of the IRS - which would have given you a minimum 25 percent wage increase and INSURE that, regardless of your status in this country, you were taxed the same as everyone else. It would have taken that annoying argument off the table.

Perhaps you're right Humorme

'Lil Brown folk are probably a much bigger biz than i had imagined

~S~

As a strict constructionist - and having worked in and around immigration law for six years, I have a unique perspective.

My resume with this issue goes back to the late 1970s. I have been on civilian border patrols. I knew ALL the major players personally between the 1970s and 1990s. I knew everybody all the way up to the current crop of anti-immigrant types that gutted the patriot organizations and civilian militias, recruiting people for this non - win effort.

After those people gutted the efforts to restore the Constitution, they began deflecting and not taking their ownership in the demise of our nation - the so-called "Patriot Act," National ID / REAL ID Act, Constitution Free Zone, evisceration of the Fourth Amendment, the end to the presumption of innocence / innocent until proven guilty.

Let's face it. David Duke, the ex-nazi turned KKK leader pioneered this effort. Then, once he abandoned it, Bill Clinton took on the job:



Once Clinton left office and Hitlery went all pro-immigration, the nazis moved back in and reclaimed their territory.


Both the Ds and the Rs are demagoguing this issue in order to take America away from our foundational principles. They are all going down different roads to the same destination. And nobody can reach what was once the civilian militias, conservative groups, etc.

And stop repeating the lie "anti-immigration" when the discussion is about illegal immigration.

 

[Kondor3]

...More than a third of the Democratic party would do away with the Second Amendment, a survey by The Economist and YouGov revealed."...

And why is this?

Could it be because Gun Nuts and their NRA mouthpiece have been obstructing Public Safety in this area for years?

No, they haven't. And it's because useful idiots like you have been erroneously and disingenuously convincing people that "public safety" means "give up your freedom for a promise of safety"....

1. Yes, you have (obstructed forward progress on sane nationwide gun control for decades)

2. No, I haven't (held the position that we must give up personal freedom for a promise of safety)

You will be giving up no personal freedoms.

You will, however, be vetted, and licensed, and registered, and trained, in accordance with the Class of License you apply for.

...

Could it be because sane folks have grown tired of that obstructionism, and the slaughtered schoolchildren, and Rightist attacks upon the survivors who dare to speak out?

No, it's because useful idiots like you have convinced people that ignorance is sanity, exercising rights is "obstructionism", and children are wise leaders. Which, granted, has produced a group of people who actually are at the same level of wisdom as children...

The era of you(r side) corruptly buying politicians is coming to an end. Ask Laura Ingraham about that.

...

The present Republican control of the Government is not going to last forever; you, like they, will go too far, sometime soon, and get the boot.

Thank you for reminding us that our liberty is only safe until the next Democrat election win...

Your liberty is safe both before and after the next Democrat election win.

It's just that you'll be obliged to conform to national standards for vetting, licensing, registration, transactions, etc.

No different than having different Classes of Drivers Licenses and having different levels of Registration and Training to undertake.

...

Your recent treatment of the Children of Parkland is now burned into the Democratic Party collective hive-mind, and will not fade.

Democrat victimhood and delusions of oppression are burned into their collective hive-mind even if Republicans never say a word. I think it's good that you recognize that Democrats only have one brain amongst them and are as intelligent as your average insect, though....

You go right on deluding yourselves that this is the case... you will understand just how wrong you were, over the course of the next couple of election cycles, as America continues to realign on the subject of sensible and uniform gun-control at the Federal level.

I suggest you cut a deal and shift to support for nationwide standards, background checks, licensure, registration, transaction approval, seizures for cause (felony convictions, mental health diagnosis) etc., while you still have room to maneuver.

Yeah, the suggestion of Democrat shills is ALWAYS "compromise by immediately surrendering! Your only hope is to give us everything we want RIGHT NOW!" If you weren't all a bunch of bugs, you'd understand why that's never a persuasive argument...

You are blind to the realignment underway amongst the American voting public on this issue and insist upon playing Queen of Denial.

The lesson will be driven home for you soon enough, I fear.

Judgment Day's a'comin'... a handful of years, at best... and if you haven't shifted to a Middle Ground by the time it arrives, you're going to get bowled over... at-law... the next time the Dems get a turn at-bat. Compromise... while you still

can. You have been warned. Ignore that warning at your own very great peril...

"We are going to punish you mightily for daring to think you have rights and can exercise them freely! You evil bastards, how dare you disagree!"...

Bumper-Sticker Mentality; signifying nothing.

...Feel free to start your insurrection any time you like, Robespierre. Just remember: we're armed, and you aren't, by your own choice.

You will feel the power of that insurrection during the course of the next couple of election cycles.

Americans of good character do not threaten their fellow Americans with weapons, merely for expressing political opinion.

 

[PoliticalChic]

...More than a third of the Democratic party would do away with the Second Amendment, a survey by The Economist and YouGov revealed."...

And why is this?

Could it be because Gun Nuts and their NRA mouthpiece have been obstructing Public Safety in this area for years?

No, they haven't. And it's because useful idiots like you have been erroneously and disingenuously convincing people that "public safety" means "give up your freedom for a promise of safety"....

1. Yes, you have (obstructed forward progress on sane nationwide gun control for decades)

2. No, I haven't (held the position that we must give up personal freedom for a promise of safety)

You will be giving up no personal freedoms.

You will, however, be vetted, and licensed, and registered, and trained, in accordance with the Class of License you apply for.

...

Could it be because sane folks have grown tired of that obstructionism, and the slaughtered schoolchildren, and Rightist attacks upon the survivors who dare to speak out?

No, it's because useful idiots like you have convinced people that ignorance is sanity, exercising rights is "obstructionism", and children are wise leaders. Which, granted, has produced a group of people who actually are at the same level of wisdom as children...

The era of you(r side) corruptly buying politicians is coming to an end. Ask Laura Ingraham about that.

...

The present Republican control of the Government is not going to last forever; you, like they, will go too far, sometime soon, and get the boot.

Thank you for reminding us that our liberty is only safe until the next Democrat election win...

Your liberty is safe both before and after the next Democrat election win.

It's just that you'll be obliged to conform to national standards for vetting, licensing, registration, transactions, etc.

No different than having different Classes of Drivers Licenses and having different levels of Registration and Training to undertake.

...

Your recent treatment of the Children of Parkland is now burned into the Democratic Party collective hive-mind, and will not fade.

Democrat victimhood and delusions of oppression are burned into their collective hive-mind even if Republicans never say a word. I think it's good that you recognize that Democrats only have one brain amongst them and are as intelligent as your average insect, though....

You go right on deluding yourselves that this is the case... you will understand just how wrong you were, over the course of the next couple of election cycles, as America continues to realign on the subject of sensible and uniform gun-control at the Federal level.

I suggest you cut a deal and shift to support for nationwide standards, background checks, licensure, registration, transaction approval, seizures for cause (felony convictions, mental health diagnosis) etc., while you still have room to maneuver.

Yeah, the suggestion of Democrat shills is ALWAYS "compromise by immediately surrendering! Your only hope is to give us everything we want RIGHT NOW!" If you weren't all a bunch of bugs, you'd understand why that's never a persuasive argument...

You are blind to the realignment underway amongst the American voting public on this issue and insist upon playing Queen of Denial.

The lesson will be driven home for you soon enough, I fear.

Judgment Day's a'comin'... a handful of years, at best... and if you haven't shifted to a Middle Ground by the time it arrives, you're going to get bowled over... at-law... the next time the Dems get a turn at-bat. Compromise... while you still

can. You have been warned. Ignore that warning at your own very great peril...

"We are going to punish you mightily for daring to think you have rights and can exercise them freely! You evil bastards, how dare you disagree!"...

Bumper-Sticker Mentality; signifying nothing.

...Feel free to start your insurrection any time you like, Robespierre. Just remember: we're armed, and you aren't, by your own choice.

You will feel the power of that insurrection during the course of the next couple of election cycles.

Americans of good character do not threaten their fellow Americans with weapons, merely for expressing political opinion.

When I see drivel like this....from the bend-over-and-grab-your-ankles crowd, it brings to mind....


Two men accused of spying are facing the firing squad. When the prison commandant finishes blindfolding the two of them, he asks, "Do either of you have any last requests? Would you care for cigarettes?"

The first prisoner spits in the direction of the commandant's voice and growls, "Keep your damned cigarettes, you son of a bitch! I'll take nothing from a dog the likes of you!"

Hearing that, the second prisoner nudges the first and whispers, "Psst! Bill, don't make trouble."





Grow a pair, and stand up for your rights, the rights under the Constitution.

 

[Humorme]

For that matter, why am I paying for all the 'aliens' unalienable right to life .....??????

~S~

Maybe you don't. I'll bet you wouldn't bitch to find out that aliens without papers are paying $12 BILLION DOLLARS a year into Socialist Security and can never draw a thin dime out in retirement.

The honest answer is, in their zeal to get rid of little brown people from south of the border, the right propped up a plank out of the Communist Manifesto, sabotaging the effort to eliminate the 16th Amendment and rid this country of the IRS - which would have given you a minimum 25 percent wage increase and INSURE that, regardless of your status in this country, you were taxed the same as everyone else. It would have taken that annoying argument off the table.

Perhaps you're right Humorme

'Lil Brown folk are probably a much bigger biz than i had imagined

~S~

As a strict constructionist - and having worked in and around immigration law for six years, I have a unique perspective.

My resume with this issue goes back to the late 1970s. I have been on civilian border patrols. I knew ALL the major players personally between the 1970s and 1990s. I knew everybody all the way up to the current crop of anti-immigrant types that gutted the patriot organizations and civilian militias, recruiting people for this non - win effort.

After those people gutted the efforts to restore the Constitution, they began deflecting and not taking their ownership in the demise of our nation - the so-called "Patriot Act," National ID / REAL ID Act, Constitution Free Zone, evisceration of the Fourth Amendment, the end to the presumption of innocence / innocent until proven guilty.

Let's face it. David Duke, the ex-nazi turned KKK leader pioneered this effort. Then, once he abandoned it, Bill Clinton took on the job:



Once Clinton left office and Hitlery went all pro-immigration, the nazis moved back in and reclaimed their territory.


Both the Ds and the Rs are demagoguing this issue in order to take America away from our foundational principles. They are all going down different roads to the same destination. And nobody can reach what was once the civilian militias, conservative groups, etc.

Based on your vaunted 'expertise'.....are the Democrats working tirelessly to entice illegal aliens into the country?

The Ds want the foreigners here for the votes; the Rs want them here for the cheap labor.

Meanwhile the average American... like where I live has guys in their 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond living at home with mommy. These dirtbags won't work; they're addicted to drugs (many having been fed drugs as a kid for non-existent conditions like ADD / ADHD) and a lot of them have made it to middle age with no high school diploma, no job skills, and not even a driver's license.

These sorry asses sit on their computer doing the social media thing and video games all day. A Mexican guy comes through here about twice a week cutting grass because those worthless Americans are that lazy.

The few who do try to do better after years of worthlessness are locked out of the system by a criminal record that shouldn't be available to the general public - except in rare circumstances (like someone who wants to take care of your kids or one who handles large sums of money / automobiles / heavy machinery.

The Rs say they want immigrants - but, only educated ones. Why? Their going to open all those minimum wage jobs up, but it is speculative that the welfare riding, dope sucking, pieces of scatalogical waste will ever take those jobs as is. AND, once the really good jobs are taken over by foreigners who came here "legally" as you like to call it, change the laws and make your points moot, what is your back-up plan?

 

[Liquid Reigns]

It sounds like someone needs a civics lesson. Welcome to America. Now, let us start with the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

That is the three basic unalienable Rights; however, they are not all inclusive. The Declaration merely says that among those...

Of this Declaration, the author, Thomas Jefferson said:

"The Declaration of Independence... [is the] declaratory charter of our rights, and of the rights of man." -

And what did the United States Supreme Court say relative to that document?

"The first official action of this nation declared the foundation of government in these words: ‘We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.’ While such declaration of principles may not have the force of organic law, or be made the basis of judicial decision as to the limits of right and duty, and while in all cases reference must be had to the organic law of the nation for such limits, yet the latter is but the body and the letter of which the former is the thought and the spirit, and it is always safe to read the letter of the Constitution in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. No duty rests more imperatively upon the courts than the enforcement of those constitutional provisions intended to secure that equality of rights which is the foundation of free government."

Cotting v. Godard, 183 U.S. 79 (1901)

One of the founding fathers, George Mason, explained these Rights this way:

"That all men are by nature equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety." ~ Virginia Declaration of Rights

The first time the United States Supreme Court ruled on this with regard to the Second Amendment, they ruled as follows:

"The right there specified is that of "bearing arms for a lawful purpose." This is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence."

United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875)

The Second Amendment is not a grant from the government to keep and bear Arms. Yet the Right indisputably exists. That is why the Court ruled that the Right with these words:

"Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence."

The Right exists. It is not dependent upon the Constitution for its existence as it predates the Constitution.

Before the United States Supreme Court ruled in the above case, the states had been interpreting the Right. Let me share a few rulings with you:

"The right existed at the adoption of the constitution; it had then no limits short of the moral power of the citizens to exercise it, and it in fact consisted in nothing else but in the liberty of the citizens to bear arms. Diminish that liberty, therefore, and you necessarily restrain the right; ... For, in principle, there is no difference between a law prohibiting the wearing [of] concealed arms, and a law forbidding the wearing such as are exposed; and if the former is unconstitutional, the latter must be so likewise."

Bliss v. Commonwealth, 12 KY. (2 LITT.) 90 (Kentucky 1822)

Then Georgia weighed in:

"The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree; and all this for the important end to be attained: the rearing up and qualifying a well-regulated militia, so vitally necessary to the security of a free State. Our opinion is, that any law, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void, which contravenes this right, originally belonging to our forefathers, trampled under foot by Charles I. and his two wicked sons and successors, reestablished by the revolution of 1688, conveyed to this land of liberty by the colonists, and finally incorporated conspicuously in our own Magna Charta!


Nunn v. State, 1 Ga. (1 Kel.) 243 (1846)


Our "own Magna Charta" would be the Declaration of Independence. That document established the principle of unalienable Rights.

The state of Texas weighed in a little later, They ruled:


"The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense of himself or the State, is absolute. He does not derive it from the State government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and is excepted out of the general powers of government.' A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the lawmaking power."

Cockrum v State 24 Tex. 394, at 401-402 (1859)

These are the holdings of the lower courts, then reaffirmed by the United States Supreme Court in the Cruikshank decision. Let's help you understand this better:

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them" United States Justice Joseph Story (Story was nominated by President James Madison, second president of the United States and founding father. Story agreed with Madison on this issue much like Gorsuch agrees with Trump.)

Unalienable Rights are those Rights which were bestowed upon you buy your Creator (whomever you deem that to be or wherever you evolved from.) Government does not grant you those Rights and you owe nobody to exercise them.

The Constitution spells out the basic Rights you are guaranteed and, at the end, if there is something not mentioned in the Constitution the Bill of Rights says that is reserved to the states or the people.

Outside of that you have "legal" rights that are more of a creation of government and subject to their control. The non-existent "right to vote" is an example. You weren't born with it; it's subject to the government being able to change it or the terms thereof with or without your consent. Think about marriage. If people had a Right to get married, why do they get a license? A license, according to legal dictionaries is permission from a governmental entity to do that which is otherwise illegal to do." If it's a Right and it's legal to do, why do you need a license? Obviously our society does not see it as being an unalienable Right. They're wrong, but that's another thread.

Legal / statutory laws are the creation of man and you might very well have to subject yourself to them, but under our Constitution:

Only six years into our Republic, the United States Supreme Court ruled:

"From these passages it is evident; that the right of acquiring and possessing property, and having it protected, is one of the natural, inherent, and unalienable rights of man. Men have a sense of property: Property is necessary to their subsistence, and correspondent to their natural wants and desires; its security was one of the objects, that induced them to unite in society. No man would become a member of a community, in which he could not enjoy the fruits of his honest labour and industry. . . The constitution expressly declares, that the right of acquiring, possessing, and protecting property is natural, inherent, and unalienable. It is a right not ex gratia from the legislature, but ex debito from the constitution. . . Where is the security, where the inviolability of property, if the legislature, by a private act, affecting particular persons ONLY, can take land from one citizen, who acquired it legally, and vest it in another?"

VANHORNE'S LESSEE v. DORRANCE, 2 U.S. 304 (1795)

Do you need some more information or is this sufficient?

Not one of those cases says that "arms" are an unalienable right, they all go back to the right to self defense, which doesn't require the owning of weapons, only the ability to fight for what is yours. They state the right to own arms existed prior to the USC, Cruikshank says it comes from the 1689 EBOR, the right has nothing to do with the DoI. Your "civics lesson" seems to be a poor understanding of actual civics on your part.

 

[Kondor3]

...When I see drivel like this..

It's only drivel because you disagree with it and because current trends frighten you. Good.

...from the bend-over-and-grab-your-ankles crowd...

Now THAT's honest-to-by-God-Andy-Jackson drivel.

...it brings to mind...

Spare us.

...Grow a pair, and stand up for your rights, the rights under the Constitution.

That is exactly what your Opposition is doing... standing up for their (and their children's) right to life and safety, within a Constitutional framework.

Their right to life and safety trump your right to own and use firearms without proper standards and licensing and registration and transaction-approval and training and storage and reporting requirements - all of which you will be obliged to conform to in the not-too-distant future. It's coming. It's just a matter of when. Which, by the way, is now likely to materialize sooner than you think possible. Watching you wail and moan and gnash your teeth and put on the hair shirt that day will be great fun. Payback's a bitch.

 

[PoliticalChic]

For that matter, why am I paying for all the 'aliens' unalienable right to life .....??????

~S~

Maybe you don't. I'll bet you wouldn't bitch to find out that aliens without papers are paying $12 BILLION DOLLARS a year into Socialist Security and can never draw a thin dime out in retirement.

The honest answer is, in their zeal to get rid of little brown people from south of the border, the right propped up a plank out of the Communist Manifesto, sabotaging the effort to eliminate the 16th Amendment and rid this country of the IRS - which would have given you a minimum 25 percent wage increase and INSURE that, regardless of your status in this country, you were taxed the same as everyone else. It would have taken that annoying argument off the table.

Perhaps you're right Humorme

'Lil Brown folk are probably a much bigger biz than i had imagined

~S~

As a strict constructionist - and having worked in and around immigration law for six years, I have a unique perspective.

My resume with this issue goes back to the late 1970s. I have been on civilian border patrols. I knew ALL the major players personally between the 1970s and 1990s. I knew everybody all the way up to the current crop of anti-immigrant types that gutted the patriot organizations and civilian militias, recruiting people for this non - win effort.

After those people gutted the efforts to restore the Constitution, they began deflecting and not taking their ownership in the demise of our nation - the so-called "Patriot Act," National ID / REAL ID Act, Constitution Free Zone, evisceration of the Fourth Amendment, the end to the presumption of innocence / innocent until proven guilty.

Let's face it. David Duke, the ex-nazi turned KKK leader pioneered this effort. Then, once he abandoned it, Bill Clinton took on the job:



Once Clinton left office and Hitlery went all pro-immigration, the nazis moved back in and reclaimed their territory.


Both the Ds and the Rs are demagoguing this issue in order to take America away from our foundational principles. They are all going down different roads to the same destination. And nobody can reach what was once the civilian militias, conservative groups, etc.

Based on your vaunted 'expertise'.....are the Democrats working tirelessly to entice illegal aliens into the country?

The Ds want the foreigners here for the votes; the Rs want them here for the cheap labor.

Meanwhile the average American... like where I live has guys in their 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond living at home with mommy. These dirtbags won't work; they're addicted to drugs (many having been fed drugs as a kid for non-existent conditions like ADD / ADHD) and a lot of them have made it to middle age with no high school diploma, no job skills, and not even a driver's license.

These sorry asses sit on their computer doing the social media thing and video games all day. A Mexican guy comes through here about twice a week cutting grass because those worthless Americans are that lazy.

The few who do try to do better after years of worthlessness are locked out of the system by a criminal record that shouldn't be available to the general public - except in rare circumstances (like someone who wants to take care of your kids or one who handles large sums of money / automobiles / heavy machinery.

The Rs say they want immigrants - but, only educated ones. Why? Their going to open all those minimum wage jobs up, but it is speculative that the welfare riding, dope sucking, pieces of scatalogical waste will ever take those jobs as is. AND, once the really good jobs are taken over by foreigners who came here "legally" as you like to call it, change the laws and make your points moot, what is your back-up plan?

Seems you weren't prepared to answer the question:

Based on your vaunted 'expertise'.....are the Democrats working tirelessly to entice illegal aliens into the country?



Based on what appears to be dishonesty in your post....I'll ask it another way: Which party handed out applications for food stamps in Mexico to entice illegal aliens??????


"Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico"
Fat And Furious: Obama Pushes Food Stamps In Mexico | Investor's Business Daily


And which party stymied immigration courts to smooth the way for illegal immigrants????

"200,000 deportation cases quietly 'closed' under Obama
....."administratively closed" without action, a move that left tens of thousands of illegal immigrants free to roam America, sometimes indefinitely, according to a new report.

When added to those cases still pending court action, it brings the backlog of cases to about 800,000, far more than previously known.

In his report, he said the exact number isn't known. "I believe that the Obama administration's use of the practice may have ‘cooked the books' as it relates to the true number of cases that are pending adjudication before the immigration courts."

The Trump administration has taken action to reverse the practice of letting authorities close the cases and is working to reschedule them, he added."
200,000 deportation cases quietly 'closed' under Obama





Speak up, you dunce!!!!

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Maybe you don't. I'll bet you wouldn't bitch to find out that aliens without papers are paying $12 BILLION DOLLARS a year into Socialist Security and can never draw a thin dime out in retirement.

The honest answer is, in their zeal to get rid of little brown people from south of the border, the right propped up a plank out of the Communist Manifesto, sabotaging the effort to eliminate the 16th Amendment and rid this country of the IRS - which would have given you a minimum 25 percent wage increase and INSURE that, regardless of your status in this country, you were taxed the same as everyone else. It would have taken that annoying argument off the table.

This has been repeatedly shown to you to be incorrect on your part, the $12B is the total of mis-matched SS numbers, which include the employers portion as well, so right away mis-matched numbers are down to $6B. Now deduct the numbers from married women that failed to change their names to match their SS, workers still working after their work authorization expired, etc. At best "illegals" may contribute $3B. Now on top of that, some can get their contributions sent to them via Totalization Agreements, or if they match their legal work authorization to their SS in the US at the age of retirement. These funds are in an ESF account and are not in the actual SS funds.

You keep repeating your same BS even though you have been shown numerous times you are wrong.

The 16th Amendment was never making any headway to be eliminated, everyone of the tax protestors claims have lost in court, you preamble/sovereign citizens are imbeciles.