Debate Now White Privilege and an Institution of Racism

[Foxfyre]

McWhorter was no opposing those who oppose racism. He was obviously opposing it himself. But he focused on how that is sometimes done and the unintended consequences of what we do that perpetuate racism.

What do you think he meant by this statement?:

To be sure, there is, indeed, a distinct White Privilege. Being white does offer a freedom not easily available to others. You can underperform without it being ascribed to your race. And when you excel, no one wonders whether Affirmative Action had anything to do with it. Authority figures are likely to be your color, and no one associates people of your color with a propensity to violence. No one expects you to represent your race in a class discussion or anywhere else. . . .​

I think he was accurate in that statement. I just think that taking that statement and concluding that there is no longer a need for attention to be paid to the OBVIOUS opportunity deficit that black Americans must contend with is very odd.

I think you are saying that we have harmed the prospects of black Americans by focusing on the historical fact that they have not had an even playing field. If only we stop trying to compensate for that....and JUST TREAT THEM LIKE THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN EQUAL NOW THAT THE LAW STATES THAT THEY ARE EQUAL, we can end racism in this country.

Sorry. We just aren't there yet.

And how do we get there?

For example, do we get there by pushing more Affirmative Action programs, counting the number of black faces in the company photo, checking to see if there are enough black kids on the team? And correcting any inequities in racial balance by edict instead of qualifications?

That only perpetuates the perception that the black person doesn't have to perform as well to make the team, to get the job, tomerit raises, promotions, bonuses, etc That he doesn't have to qualify using the same criteria used for white people. That has to be so frustrating for those black people who do qualify and earned everything they have but that cloud of suspicion still hangs over their heads..

The "White Privilege" of which McWhorter speaks acknowledges that we haven't subjected white people to Affirmative Action and so nobody questions that the average white guy earned his position on merit. Nobody ever suspects that he is there as the mandatory 'token'. Our efforts to correct past wrongs with black people did break down barriers back in the 1960's and 70's. But to continue them now is actually disadvantaging black people in just the way McWhorter described.

Personal anecdote.

I provide my customers with swimsuit calendars every year. I have had no less than 6 former customers ( a small percentage, but not zero ) who have refused the calendar because one of the models was black.

Do you understand the implications of that? It means that we have not achieved the goal. There are still barriers to straight up equality. If we permitted it, those business owners would hire only white people.......period. There is a percentage of American business owners who need to be forced to treat all Americans equally. Therefore...we have not moved beyond the need for some legal recourse for those who have been discriminated against.

I don't buy the idea that "those black people people who do qualify and earned everything they have but that cloud of suspicion still hangs over their heads" are frustrated. They have lived the life. They know the score.

Take this guy, for example:

I taught my black kids that their elite upbringing would protect them from discrimination. I was wrong. - The Washington Post

He earned everything he has. He's still not feeling equal.

When does this debate end with a concession? Never?

So WHY did those customers object to the black model?

And how is McWhorter wrong that some of the very concepts that are intended to deal with racism are perpetuating attitudes that lead to more racism and discrimination?

Former customers.

Why? Why do you think?

Is this where we enter the spiral of never ending questions?

I don't know why. They were not my customers. Or ex-customers. I thought maybe they told you why. But most cultural racism is learned and is not dissipated because there are no experiences offered by which people would naturally change their atttitudes.

You say that we aren't ready to do away with anti-racism efforts and just treat everybody equally and ignore skin color. But you don't explain why doing away with all the political correctness and affirmative action type laws and actions and scrapping "White Privilege 101" classes and just allowing people to be people is not the best (and maybe only) way to eliminate the worst of racism.

 

[Foxfyre]

The OP is not about criticism of Derideo_te or Foxfyre or anybody else. The OP invites a discussion of racism as specifically related to the concept of white privilege as McWhorter portrays it in his essay.

I will insist that we focus on that with the understanding that it is impossible to have a discussion of racism without using terminology related to racism.. If you wish a different discussion, I will invite you to start your own thread with my blessings.

Any statement made by any member, including me, posting in this thread is fair game to be questioned for clarification, argued with, criticized, or rebutted and everybody who disagrees should give that their best shot. But criticism of the member making the statement or analyzing whether the member is or is not racist or defensive or any other comments on his/her character is ad hominem and expressly disallowed in Rule #2 for the thread.

In which case report it as an ad hom!

You were asked to defend just one of the biased questions in your OP.

Either you defend it or tacitly admit that you have no intention of honestly dealing with the legitimate criticism of your own OP.

Your choice.

Perhaps if you restate the question your are concerned about and explain why it is racist, then I would have a chance to rebut that.

If you are going to say that just asking people whether they do or do not agree with a statement about racism is in itself racist, you're going to have to explain how that is racist too if you wish for me to rebut it. Because I say it is in no way racist.

You are going to have to be specific about what you find objectionable about the OP before anybody can know what you are objecting to. Just saying it is racist without saying why or how it is racist just doesn't cut it.

That's how it works.

View attachment 37965

Do you honestly believe that there is nothing racist in stating "Black people are unable to achieve equality without government programs"?

Is that specific enough for you?

I definitely believe it is not a racist statement. So explain to me why it is. But remember, we already have posts by some on this thread that are specific that federal programs are necessary to help black people because of the wrongs the black people incurred. If those programs are not necessary to help black people achieve equality with white people, then why have them?

The statement implies that blacks are inferior and cannot compete without government assistance. That is racist because it is based on the race of the people concerned.

That is was even necessary to explain says volumes.

The need for affirmative action (AA) is to redress the imbalance caused by racist laws that treated blacks as second class citizens for generations. The reason for still needing AA today is because there are whites in this nation who screech "wealth redistribution" whenever they perceive that "my money" is being spent to ensure that others who are less fortunate are provided with the basics like food and housing.

Who was it that used that "my money" phrase in another thread recently? Let me see if I can find that post. Since you referenced posts by others you can't object if I link/quote that post here, right?

It is stating that this is the opinion of some people, even anti-racist activists. It is not stating it as a fact. It is asking who believes it to be a fact.

Just as you said that Affirmative Action is necessary because otherwise poor people won't be able to become non-less fortunate. Given that most affirmative action is targeted for black people, Is that not the same thing as saying that black people cannot succeed without federal anti-racism programs? How is it different? Just because you don't use the word 'black'?

The topic of McWhorter's essay however was the effect of white attitudes on black people. So we're pretty much stuck with that aspect of race for the topic.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I think he was accurate in that statement. I just think that taking that statement and concluding that there is no longer a need for attention to be paid to the OBVIOUS opportunity deficit that black Americans must contend with is very odd.

I think you are saying that we have harmed the prospects of black Americans by focusing on the historical fact that they have not had an even playing field. If only we stop trying to compensate for that....and JUST TREAT THEM LIKE THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN EQUAL NOW THAT THE LAW STATES THAT THEY ARE EQUAL, we can end racism in this country.

Sorry. We just aren't there yet.

And how do we get there?

For example, do we get there by pushing more Affirmative Action programs, counting the number of black faces in the company photo, checking to see if there are enough black kids on the team? And correcting any inequities in racial balance by edict instead of qualifications?

That only perpetuates the perception that the black person doesn't have to perform as well to make the team, to get the job, tomerit raises, promotions, bonuses, etc That he doesn't have to qualify using the same criteria used for white people. That has to be so frustrating for those black people who do qualify and earned everything they have but that cloud of suspicion still hangs over their heads..

The "White Privilege" of which McWhorter speaks acknowledges that we haven't subjected white people to Affirmative Action and so nobody questions that the average white guy earned his position on merit. Nobody ever suspects that he is there as the mandatory 'token'. Our efforts to correct past wrongs with black people did break down barriers back in the 1960's and 70's. But to continue them now is actually disadvantaging black people in just the way McWhorter described.

Personal anecdote.

I provide my customers with swimsuit calendars every year. I have had no less than 6 former customers ( a small percentage, but not zero ) who have refused the calendar because one of the models was black.

Do you understand the implications of that? It means that we have not achieved the goal. There are still barriers to straight up equality. If we permitted it, those business owners would hire only white people.......period. There is a percentage of American business owners who need to be forced to treat all Americans equally. Therefore...we have not moved beyond the need for some legal recourse for those who have been discriminated against.

I don't buy the idea that "those black people people who do qualify and earned everything they have but that cloud of suspicion still hangs over their heads" are frustrated. They have lived the life. They know the score.

Take this guy, for example:

I taught my black kids that their elite upbringing would protect them from discrimination. I was wrong. - The Washington Post

He earned everything he has. He's still not feeling equal.

When does this debate end with a concession? Never?

So WHY did those customers object to the black model?

And how is McWhorter wrong that some of the very concepts that are intended to deal with racism are perpetuating attitudes that lead to more racism and discrimination?

Former customers.

Why? Why do you think?

Is this where we enter the spiral of never ending questions?

I don't know why. They were not my customers. Or ex-customers. I thought maybe they told you why. But most cultural racism is learned and is not dissipated because there are no experiences offered by which people would naturally change their atttitudes.

You say that we aren't ready to do away with anti-racism efforts and just treat everybody equally and ignore skin color. But you don't explain why doing away with all the political correctness and affirmative action type laws and actions and scrapping "White Privilege 101" classes and just allowing people to be people is not the best (and maybe only) way to eliminate the worst of racism.

"All the political correctness"

You have mentioned political correctness several times now. What are you referring to....exactly? People facing consequences for saying stupid shit?

Something else?

 

[Foxfyre]

And how do we get there?

For example, do we get there by pushing more Affirmative Action programs, counting the number of black faces in the company photo, checking to see if there are enough black kids on the team? And correcting any inequities in racial balance by edict instead of qualifications?

That only perpetuates the perception that the black person doesn't have to perform as well to make the team, to get the job, tomerit raises, promotions, bonuses, etc That he doesn't have to qualify using the same criteria used for white people. That has to be so frustrating for those black people who do qualify and earned everything they have but that cloud of suspicion still hangs over their heads..

The "White Privilege" of which McWhorter speaks acknowledges that we haven't subjected white people to Affirmative Action and so nobody questions that the average white guy earned his position on merit. Nobody ever suspects that he is there as the mandatory 'token'. Our efforts to correct past wrongs with black people did break down barriers back in the 1960's and 70's. But to continue them now is actually disadvantaging black people in just the way McWhorter described.

Personal anecdote.

I provide my customers with swimsuit calendars every year. I have had no less than 6 former customers ( a small percentage, but not zero ) who have refused the calendar because one of the models was black.

Do you understand the implications of that? It means that we have not achieved the goal. There are still barriers to straight up equality. If we permitted it, those business owners would hire only white people.......period. There is a percentage of American business owners who need to be forced to treat all Americans equally. Therefore...we have not moved beyond the need for some legal recourse for those who have been discriminated against.

I don't buy the idea that "those black people people who do qualify and earned everything they have but that cloud of suspicion still hangs over their heads" are frustrated. They have lived the life. They know the score.

Take this guy, for example:

I taught my black kids that their elite upbringing would protect them from discrimination. I was wrong. - The Washington Post

He earned everything he has. He's still not feeling equal.

When does this debate end with a concession? Never?

So WHY did those customers object to the black model?

And how is McWhorter wrong that some of the very concepts that are intended to deal with racism are perpetuating attitudes that lead to more racism and discrimination?

Former customers.

Why? Why do you think?

Is this where we enter the spiral of never ending questions?

I don't know why. They were not my customers. Or ex-customers. I thought maybe they told you why. But most cultural racism is learned and is not dissipated because there are no experiences offered by which people would naturally change their atttitudes.

You say that we aren't ready to do away with anti-racism efforts and just treat everybody equally and ignore skin color. But you don't explain why doing away with all the political correctness and affirmative action type laws and actions and scrapping "White Privilege 101" classes and just allowing people to be people is not the best (and maybe only) way to eliminate the worst of racism.

"All the political correctness"

You have mentioned political correctness several times now. What are you referring to....exactly? People facing consequences for saying stupid shit?

Something else?

We can define political correctness in a bit. But I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions and comments posed to you before I answer any more of yours.

But here is a pretty good definition that sums up what PC is:

1. political correctness
   noun: political correctness · noun: political correctitude
   1. 
      the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Personal anecdote.

I provide my customers with swimsuit calendars every year. I have had no less than 6 former customers ( a small percentage, but not zero ) who have refused the calendar because one of the models was black.

Do you understand the implications of that? It means that we have not achieved the goal. There are still barriers to straight up equality. If we permitted it, those business owners would hire only white people.......period. There is a percentage of American business owners who need to be forced to treat all Americans equally. Therefore...we have not moved beyond the need for some legal recourse for those who have been discriminated against.

I don't buy the idea that "those black people people who do qualify and earned everything they have but that cloud of suspicion still hangs over their heads" are frustrated. They have lived the life. They know the score.

Take this guy, for example:

I taught my black kids that their elite upbringing would protect them from discrimination. I was wrong. - The Washington Post

He earned everything he has. He's still not feeling equal.

When does this debate end with a concession? Never?

So WHY did those customers object to the black model?

And how is McWhorter wrong that some of the very concepts that are intended to deal with racism are perpetuating attitudes that lead to more racism and discrimination?

Former customers.

Why? Why do you think?

Is this where we enter the spiral of never ending questions?

I don't know why. They were not my customers. Or ex-customers. I thought maybe they told you why. But most cultural racism is learned and is not dissipated because there are no experiences offered by which people would naturally change their atttitudes.

You say that we aren't ready to do away with anti-racism efforts and just treat everybody equally and ignore skin color. But you don't explain why doing away with all the political correctness and affirmative action type laws and actions and scrapping "White Privilege 101" classes and just allowing people to be people is not the best (and maybe only) way to eliminate the worst of racism.

"All the political correctness"

You have mentioned political correctness several times now. What are you referring to....exactly? People facing consequences for saying stupid shit?

Something else?

We can define political correctness in a bit. But I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions and comments posed to you before I answer any more of yours.

But here is a pretty good definition that sums up what PC is:

1. political correctness
   noun: political correctness · noun: political correctitude
   1. 
      the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.

What question? The one about why my racist former customers refused to accept my calendar? That one?

 

[LoneLaugher]

Personal anecdote.

I provide my customers with swimsuit calendars every year. I have had no less than 6 former customers ( a small percentage, but not zero ) who have refused the calendar because one of the models was black.

Do you understand the implications of that? It means that we have not achieved the goal. There are still barriers to straight up equality. If we permitted it, those business owners would hire only white people.......period. There is a percentage of American business owners who need to be forced to treat all Americans equally. Therefore...we have not moved beyond the need for some legal recourse for those who have been discriminated against.

I don't buy the idea that "those black people people who do qualify and earned everything they have but that cloud of suspicion still hangs over their heads" are frustrated. They have lived the life. They know the score.

Take this guy, for example:

I taught my black kids that their elite upbringing would protect them from discrimination. I was wrong. - The Washington Post

He earned everything he has. He's still not feeling equal.

When does this debate end with a concession? Never?

So WHY did those customers object to the black model?

And how is McWhorter wrong that some of the very concepts that are intended to deal with racism are perpetuating attitudes that lead to more racism and discrimination?

Former customers.

Why? Why do you think?

Is this where we enter the spiral of never ending questions?

I don't know why. They were not my customers. Or ex-customers. I thought maybe they told you why. But most cultural racism is learned and is not dissipated because there are no experiences offered by which people would naturally change their atttitudes.

You say that we aren't ready to do away with anti-racism efforts and just treat everybody equally and ignore skin color. But you don't explain why doing away with all the political correctness and affirmative action type laws and actions and scrapping "White Privilege 101" classes and just allowing people to be people is not the best (and maybe only) way to eliminate the worst of racism.

"All the political correctness"

You have mentioned political correctness several times now. What are you referring to....exactly? People facing consequences for saying stupid shit?

Something else?

We can define political correctness in a bit. But I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions and comments posed to you before I answer any more of yours.

But here is a pretty good definition that sums up what PC is:

1. political correctness
   noun: political correctness · noun: political correctitude
   1. 
      the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.

I didn't ask for a definition. I asked what you were referring to as it related to this discussion. That requires examples and context.

 

[BlackSand]

We can define political correctness in a bit. But I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions and comments posed to you before I answer any more of yours.

But here is a pretty good definition that sums up what PC is:

1. political correctness
   noun: political correctness · noun: political correctitude
   1. 
      the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.

Your definition seems okay ... But this definition won an award for "The Best Definition of a Contemporary Term".

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous
mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is
entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

.

 

[Foxfyre]

We can define political correctness in a bit. But I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions and comments posed to you before I answer any more of yours.

But here is a pretty good definition that sums up what PC is:

1. political correctness
   noun: political correctness · noun: political correctitude
   1. 
      the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.

Your definition seems okay ... But this definition won an award for "The Best Definition of a Contemporary Term".

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional,
illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous
mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is
entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
.

LOL. That's not too far off of my opinion of PC that I think has been one of the most destructive elements humankind has devised in this modern age.

Good grief, we can't even discuss McWhorter's thesis of the effect of white attitudes on black people in this thread without being accused of being racist.

 

[Foxfyre]

So WHY did those customers object to the black model?

And how is McWhorter wrong that some of the very concepts that are intended to deal with racism are perpetuating attitudes that lead to more racism and discrimination?

Former customers.

Why? Why do you think?

Is this where we enter the spiral of never ending questions?

I don't know why. They were not my customers. Or ex-customers. I thought maybe they told you why. But most cultural racism is learned and is not dissipated because there are no experiences offered by which people would naturally change their atttitudes.

You say that we aren't ready to do away with anti-racism efforts and just treat everybody equally and ignore skin color. But you don't explain why doing away with all the political correctness and affirmative action type laws and actions and scrapping "White Privilege 101" classes and just allowing people to be people is not the best (and maybe only) way to eliminate the worst of racism.

"All the political correctness"

You have mentioned political correctness several times now. What are you referring to....exactly? People facing consequences for saying stupid shit?

Something else?

We can define political correctness in a bit. But I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions and comments posed to you before I answer any more of yours.

But here is a pretty good definition that sums up what PC is:

1. political correctness
   noun: political correctness · noun: political correctitude
   1. 
      the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.

I didn't ask for a definition. I asked what you were referring to as it related to this discussion. That requires examples and context.

Oh, for that I'll refer you to Derideo_te's posts complaining about me and the topic. That will provide you with some pretty good illustrations of political correctness in application.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Weeeeeeeeee! Down the rabbit hole we go! Let's all confess how horrible it is to be called a racist'! Weeeeeeee! It's worse than being denied a job! Having a cab pass by pales in comparison! It's so horrible!!!

 

[Pogo]

Personal anecdote.

I provide my customers with swimsuit calendars every year. I have had no less than 6 former customers ( a small percentage, but not zero ) who have refused the calendar because one of the models was black.

Do you understand the implications of that? It means that we have not achieved the goal. There are still barriers to straight up equality. If we permitted it, those business owners would hire only white people.......period. There is a percentage of American business owners who need to be forced to treat all Americans equally. Therefore...we have not moved beyond the need for some legal recourse for those who have been discriminated against.

I don't buy the idea that "those black people people who do qualify and earned everything they have but that cloud of suspicion still hangs over their heads" are frustrated. They have lived the life. They know the score.

Take this guy, for example:

I taught my black kids that their elite upbringing would protect them from discrimination. I was wrong. - The Washington Post

He earned everything he has. He's still not feeling equal.

When does this debate end with a concession? Never?

So WHY did those customers object to the black model?

And how is McWhorter wrong that some of the very concepts that are intended to deal with racism are perpetuating attitudes that lead to more racism and discrimination?

Former customers.

Why? Why do you think?

Is this where we enter the spiral of never ending questions?

I don't know why. They were not my customers. Or ex-customers. I thought maybe they told you why. But most cultural racism is learned and is not dissipated because there are no experiences offered by which people would naturally change their atttitudes.

You say that we aren't ready to do away with anti-racism efforts and just treat everybody equally and ignore skin color. But you don't explain why doing away with all the political correctness and affirmative action type laws and actions and scrapping "White Privilege 101" classes and just allowing people to be people is not the best (and maybe only) way to eliminate the worst of racism.

"All the political correctness"

You have mentioned political correctness several times now. What are you referring to....exactly? People facing consequences for saying stupid shit?

Something else?

We can define political correctness in a bit. But I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions and comments posed to you before I answer any more of yours.

But here is a pretty good definition that sums up what PC is:

1. political correctness
   noun: political correctness · noun: political correctitude
   1. 
      the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.

Interesting, Foxy.

When someone else asks for a definition, it's all "sure, here ya go". When I ask for one I'm told to "go start my own thread".

Sigh...

 

[Foxfyre]

So WHY did those customers object to the black model?

And how is McWhorter wrong that some of the very concepts that are intended to deal with racism are perpetuating attitudes that lead to more racism and discrimination?

Former customers.

Why? Why do you think?

Is this where we enter the spiral of never ending questions?

I don't know why. They were not my customers. Or ex-customers. I thought maybe they told you why. But most cultural racism is learned and is not dissipated because there are no experiences offered by which people would naturally change their atttitudes.

You say that we aren't ready to do away with anti-racism efforts and just treat everybody equally and ignore skin color. But you don't explain why doing away with all the political correctness and affirmative action type laws and actions and scrapping "White Privilege 101" classes and just allowing people to be people is not the best (and maybe only) way to eliminate the worst of racism.

"All the political correctness"

You have mentioned political correctness several times now. What are you referring to....exactly? People facing consequences for saying stupid shit?

Something else?

We can define political correctness in a bit. But I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions and comments posed to you before I answer any more of yours.

But here is a pretty good definition that sums up what PC is:

1. political correctness
   noun: political correctness · noun: political correctitude
   1. 
      the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.

Interesting, Foxy.

When someone else asks for a definition, it's all "sure, here ya go". When I ask for one I'm told to "go start my own thread".

Sigh...

Political correctness is a term many people don't know and cannot be found in most dictionaries. Focus however is a word most of us use every day and is readily available in all dictionaries

 

[BlackSand]

But the phrase "keeping the focus on racism" is fatally undefined. It could mean a lot of different things.

Continuing AA policies, legally and rhetorically with the idea "I'm black so society owes me" is one thing it could mean, and I agree, those are counterproductive. But knowing our cultural context -- also defined as 'history' -- is another thing the phrase could mean, and taking that focus off would be even more counterproductive.

So perhaps we need to define what we mean by "focus", and what we don't mean.

Why argue about the meaning of the word when you have already given your answers as to the possible meanings you wanted to apply?
That would be about as useless as suggesting anyone living in America doesn't know of our history concerning Slavery or the Civil Rights violations that followed.

No Cashews For You!

I still have to disagree with McWhorter regarding the idea of being called a racist is the same as being called a pedophile.
It is so overused and misused nowadays ... It is beginning to mean nothing more than a personal attack made by people with no better argument to offer.
I am afraid that the whole cultural experience surrounding the past will be lost to ambiguity if people keep beating a dead horse.

.

 

[MisterBeale]

Take this guy, for example:

I taught my black kids that their elite upbringing would protect them from discrimination. I was wrong. - The Washington Post

He earned everything he has. He's still not feeling equal.

When does this debate end with a concession? Never?

This guys example was stupid. Damn elite whiner. His kid WASN'T discriminated against, HE WAS BULLIED. And everyone, at some point or other gets bullied or harassed. If a person is ethnic, it just makes them an easier target. But somehow people of ethnicity seem to have this delusion that white people don't get bullied or excluded. What a bunch of crap.


You know what? Kids get bullied all the time, suck it up. At first, I REALLY empathized with his story growing up, and I felt for him and was proud of how he came up out of harsh circumstances, really, I did.

But you know what? ALL kids, fat kids, short kids, girls, boys, ugly kids, whatever, they all can have traumatic experiences where they are bullied, seriously.

Sure, his son encountered serious hard core racists. WHO GIVES A SHIT. He wants to whine to us that him and his kids feelings were hurt? And we should care? As long as no laws were broken, and no government and institutional racism occurred here, what you are talking about is trying to control what are in people's hearts. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.




When I was a boy of around, oh, say seven or eight, I was just a few years into reading, I loved it.

I was a VERY emotional boy. Boys aren't supposed to be emotional, especially back in the day when I grew up. To show tears when being bullied was a sign of weakness, but if pressed too hard, I could never help it.

One day on the bus ride to school I fell asleep. When we got to school, as the kids were getting off, some kids that were several grades ahead of me told me they thought the book I had been reading was a great read, they really enjoyed it. To my horror, it wasn't in the seat with me where I had been reading it. . . .

It was gone. I looked all over for it. The bus driver helped me.

We found it. It was all torn to shreds in the back of the bus. That Tom Sawyer book was the First Novel I had ever read in my life, and that bully destroyed it. I was crushed, heartbroken, I wept so hard, and I paid for it from the jeers of the boys at school. Did you know Jim was Huck's best friend? I digress.

Is that your "white privilege?" The point here is that it doesn't matter who you are, how old or young, EVERYONE can be bullied, and the way you are using this article makes it sound like the government can somehow do something about changing what is in people's hearts. Only the way we can change hate to love is by treating each other better and showing no preference for one person over another.

Folks who think that bullying based on race is any different than other bullying have a stick up their ass and just want to feel entitled at this point. It is the new millennium already. It's time we moved on, equality is codified and guaranteed by law. If discrimination happens, it can and will be investigated and the press will shine a light on it, you can bet your sweet ass on it.

Folks with racist attitudes will be shunned, isn't that enough? Let's just let it go and get on with our lives already. . . . Only the hateful and ignorant want to codify laws that see color at this point, or have "special training," about race relations. What a crock.

Could you imagine these sisters having to go to such a college having to take such a course? The white one having to take the "white guilt" course while the one other didn't? Wouldn't that be a hoot?

snopes.com Mixed Twins

Doesn't that show the absurdity of those that object to what McWhorter is getting at? After such a class, do you think the white sister would feel any different or have gotten anything out of it beyond resentment? Wouldn't the money, resources and talent be better allocated elsewhere in ending institutional racism, rather than addressing some theoretical fantasy, "white privilege." How much "white privilege," do you think the fair skinned girl isn't already aware of?

hmmmm?

 

[Flopper]

The poll options are all flawed. This is, therefore, a flawed thread.

Acknowledging that white privilege ( no quotation marks needed ) exists and understanding the many ways in which it manifests is pretty much ground zero in the effort to end discriminatory practices in this society.

If you cannot do that without concluding that certain groups are going to be coddled.....and thus fail to reach their potential.....then you cannot have a seat at the adult table where this is being discussed.

Unfortunately, any effort a person makes to end racial discrimination automatically makes them a racist.

 

[WelfareQueen]

America was largely founded on white privilege. Having white skin in this society is probably still a superficial advantage.

However, there are mountains of data that clearly indicate all other factors being equal, that intelligent and educated blacks are just as successful as whites. In other words....a black person with a mean 117 I.Q. (the I.Q. of the average 4 year college graduate) is just as likely to obtain a college degree and be economically successful as a white person. That data undermines the left wing meme that America is still a deeply racist and bigoted society.

Another factor that is overwhelmingly supported by data is that all races equally discriminate. Blacks generally want to marry, work with, play with, live with and have children with other Blacks. Ditto Whites, Hispanics and Asians.

Does the fact that Blacks have these racial preferences mean they are racist? Or, are only Whites racist when they have exactly the same preferences?

I think that gets to the heart of the OP's question.

 

[Pogo]

But the phrase "keeping the focus on racism" is fatally undefined. It could mean a lot of different things.

Continuing AA policies, legally and rhetorically with the idea "I'm black so society owes me" is one thing it could mean, and I agree, those are counterproductive. But knowing our cultural context -- also defined as 'history' -- is another thing the phrase could mean, and taking that focus off would be even more counterproductive.

So perhaps we need to define what we mean by "focus", and what we don't mean.

Why argue about the meaning of the word when you have already given your answers as to the possible meanings you wanted to apply?
That would be about as useless as suggesting anyone living in America doesn't know of our history concerning Slavery or the Civil Rights violations that followed.

No Cashews For You!.

I didn't "argue" about it -- I requested it. To no avail.

As already noted, I can't participate if the OP refuses to say what the question is. I suspect she does this because I'm not likely to take the discussion where she wants it to go -- wherever that is. It's happened before.

No worries though. I've got my own cashews.

 

[LoneLaugher]

America was largely founded on white privilege. Having white skin in this society is probably still a superficial advantage.

However, there are mountains of data that clearly indicate all other factors being equal, that intelligent and educated blacks are just as successful as whites. In other words....a black person with a mean 117 I.Q. (the I.Q. of the average 4 year college graduate) is just as likely to obtain a college degree and be economically successful as a white person. That data undermines the left wing meme that America is still a deeply racist and bigoted society.

Another factor that is overwhelmingly supported by data is that all races equally discriminate. Blacks generally want to marry, work with, play with, live with and have children with other Blacks. Ditto Whites, Hispanics and Asians.

Does the fact that Blacks have these racial preferences mean they are racist? Or, are only Whites racist when they have exactly the same preferences?

I think that gets to the heart of the OP's question.

According to the rules of the thread,you need to show us the mountains of data. A black person with a 117 IQ is just as likely to obtain a college degree as a white person with a 117 IQ? You have mountains of data that support that? Let's see it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Take this guy, for example:

I taught my black kids that their elite upbringing would protect them from discrimination. I was wrong. - The Washington Post

He earned everything he has. He's still not feeling equal.

When does this debate end with a concession? Never?

This guys example was stupid. Damn elite whiner. His kid WASN'T discriminated against, HE WAS BULLIED. And everyone, at some point or other gets bullied or harassed. If a person is ethnic, it just makes them an easier target. But somehow people of ethnicity seem to have this delusion that white people don't get bullied or excluded. What a bunch of crap.


You know what? Kids get bullied all the time, suck it up. At first, I REALLY empathized with his story growing up, and I felt for him and was proud of how he came up out of harsh circumstances, really, I did.

But you know what? ALL kids, fat kids, short kids, girls, boys, ugly kids, whatever, they all can have traumatic experiences where they are bullied, seriously.

Sure, his son encountered serious hard core racists. WHO GIVES A SHIT. He wants to whine to us that him and his kids feelings were hurt? And we should care? As long as no laws were broken, and no government and institutional racism occurred here, what you are talking about is trying to control what are in people's hearts. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.




When I was a boy of around, oh, say seven or eight, I was just a few years into reading, I loved it.

I was a VERY emotional boy. Boys aren't supposed to be emotional, especially back in the day when I grew up. To show tears when being bullied was a sign of weakness, but if pressed too hard, I could never help it.

One day on the bus ride to school I fell asleep. When we got to school, as the kids were getting off, some kids that were several grades ahead of me told me they thought the book I had been reading was a great read, they really enjoyed it. To my horror, it wasn't in the seat with me where I had been reading it. . . .

It was gone. I looked all over for it. The bus driver helped me.

We found it. It was all torn to shreds in the back of the bus. That Tom Sawyer book was the First Novel I had ever read in my life, and that bully destroyed it. I was crushed, heartbroken, I wept so hard, and I paid for it from the jeers of the boys at school. Did you know Jim was Huck's best friend? I digress.

Is that your "white privilege?" The point here is that it doesn't matter who you are, how old or young, EVERYONE can be bullied, and the way you are using this article makes it sound like the government can somehow do something about changing what is in people's hearts. Only the way we can change hate to love is by treating each other better and showing no preference for one person over another.

Folks who think that bullying based on race is any different than other bullying have a stick up their ass and just want to feel entitled at this point. It is the new millennium already. It's time we moved on, equality is codified and guaranteed by law. If discrimination happens, it can and will be investigated and the press will shine a light on it, you can bet your sweet ass on it.

Folks with racist attitudes will be shunned, isn't that enough? Let's just let it go and get on with our lives already. . . . Only the hateful and ignorant want to codify laws that see color at this point, or have "special training," about race relations. What a crock.

Could you imagine these sisters having to go to such a college having to take such a course? The white one having to take the "white guilt" course while the one other didn't? Wouldn't that be a hoot?

snopes.com Mixed Twins

Doesn't that show the absurdity of those that object to what McWhorter is getting at? After such a class, do you think the white sister would feel any different or have gotten anything out of it beyond resentment? Wouldn't the money, resources and talent be better allocated elsewhere in ending institutional racism, rather than addressing some theoretical fantasy, "white privilege." How much "white privilege," do you think the fair skinned girl isn't already aware of?

hmmmm?

Great rant. Completely irrelevant.

 

[Ravi]

How are good manners different than political correctness, exactly?