Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I have always answered that question. I don't duck the question! You just don't like the answer.

Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...
​

​

You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.

(COMMENT)

The Jewish State of Israel maintains and exercises sovereignty over everything in "White" (or Beige like) on this Map.

However, this map is not all inclusive of Israeli Sovereignty. There are things like the Exclusive Economic Zone that further extend Israeli Sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.

Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism

The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.

(COMMENT)

Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer. Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.

"This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states." (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010) The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades. Its control is undisputed by any challengers.

If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:

• Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
• Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.
​

As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined." There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

In this Rocco is correct, while the legal borders of Israel are those of the 1949 Armistice, de facto the borders are those that Israel says they are. Much like Russia's borders are those Russia says they are, though legally the world does not recognize Crimea and the parts of Georgia acquired by force on the part of Russia.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.

Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism

The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.

(COMMENT)

Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer. Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.

"This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states." (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010) The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades. Its control is undisputed by any challengers.

If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:

• Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
• Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.
​

As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined." There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.

Most Respectfully,
R

• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​

The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.

Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism

The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.

(COMMENT)

Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer. Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.

"This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states." (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010) The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades. Its control is undisputed by any challengers.

If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:

• Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
• Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.
​

As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined." There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.

Most Respectfully,
R

• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​

The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.

"Their territory", which it was not. How about "their territory" in the mythical "country of Pal'istan" which never existed.

What a hoot.

 

[Shusha]

Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​

You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.

Oh give me a break. You are saying that since ALL of Palestine is Palestine they are just firing on themselves and therefore its not illegal or hostile? Pah-leeze.

The Gazans are firing indiscriminately into civilian areas. Israel has a duty to protect Israeli citizens.

Going down this road of legal stupidity just demonstrates your desire to play foolish legal games at the expense of the lives of innocent Israelis and innocent Gazans.

Firing indiscriminately at innocent non-combatants is both ILLEGAL and IMMORAL. And it can not be tolerated. Just acknowledge that and move on.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It was never their territory.

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.

Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism

The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.

(COMMENT)

Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer. Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.

"This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states." (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010) The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades. Its control is undisputed by any challengers.

If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:

• Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
• Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.
​

As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined." There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.

Most Respectfully,
R

• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​

The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.

(COMMENT)

Show me the territorial boundaries in which the Arab Palestinians are sovereign.

(QUESTION)

What do you consider Palestinian Territory?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

What would you call people going forth from one continent to another continent to displace the people of that continent to make room for said people from the other continent? A picnic? It is not hatred to criticize the taking of land by conquest, just a statement of fact.

OLD SCHOOL: Manifest Destiny /// NEW AGE: Many Fuzzy Desktops

Those of us who are proud of our American history have no problem with conquest. The land belongs to whoever can get the most out of it, not to backward criminal fugitives who got there ahead of superior groups, hogged the land, and let it go to waste.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​

You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.

Oh give me a break. You are saying that since ALL of Palestine is Palestine they are just firing on themselves and therefore its not illegal or hostile? Pah-leeze.

The Gazans are firing indiscriminately into civilian areas. Israel has a duty to protect Israeli citizens.

Going down this road of legal stupidity just demonstrates your desire to play foolish legal games at the expense of the lives of innocent Israelis and innocent Gazans.

Firing indiscriminately at innocent non-combatants is both ILLEGAL and IMMORAL. And it can not be tolerated. Just acknowledge that and move on.

You are saying that since ALL of Palestine is Palestine...​

Uhhh,

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It was never their territory.

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.

Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism

The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.

(COMMENT)

Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer. Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.

"This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states." (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010) The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades. Its control is undisputed by any challengers.

If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:

• Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
• Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.
​

As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined." There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.

Most Respectfully,
R

• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​

The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.

(COMMENT)

Show me the territorial boundaries in which the Arab Palestinians are sovereign.

(QUESTION)

What do you consider Palestinian Territory?

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians have the right to sovereignty in all of their territory.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I have always answered that question. I don't duck the question! You just don't like the answer.

Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...
​

​

You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.

(COMMENT)

The Jewish State of Israel maintains and exercises sovereignty over everything in "White" (or Beige like) on this Map.

View attachment 97438​

However, this map is not all inclusive of Israeli Sovereignty. There are things like the Exclusive Economic Zone that further extend Israeli Sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R

If there is no longer a green line around Gaza and the West Bank, whose territory is it?

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It was never their territory.

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.

Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism

The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.

(COMMENT)

Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer. Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.

"This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states." (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010) The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades. Its control is undisputed by any challengers.

If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:

• Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
• Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.
​

As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined." There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.

Most Respectfully,
R

• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​

The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.

(COMMENT)

Show me the territorial boundaries in which the Arab Palestinians are sovereign.

(QUESTION)

What do you consider Palestinian Territory?

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians have the right to sovereignty in all of their territory.

All of what territory?

 

[Shusha]

Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​

You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.

Oh give me a break. You are saying that since ALL of Palestine is Palestine they are just firing on themselves and therefore its not illegal or hostile? Pah-leeze.

The Gazans are firing indiscriminately into civilian areas. Israel has a duty to protect Israeli citizens.

Going down this road of legal stupidity just demonstrates your desire to play foolish legal games at the expense of the lives of innocent Israelis and innocent Gazans.

Firing indiscriminately at innocent non-combatants is both ILLEGAL and IMMORAL. And it can not be tolerated. Just acknowledge that and move on.

You are saying that since ALL of Palestine is Palestine...​

Uhhh,

Ha! Oops. All of Israel is Palestine.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Where is "their territory?"
Who said it was their territory?
Where do the Arab Palestinian now exercise sovereignty?

It was never their territory.

• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​

​

The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.

(COMMENT)

Show me the territorial boundaries in which the Arab Palestinians are sovereign.

(QUESTION)

What do you consider Palestinian Territory?

The Palestinians have the right to sovereignty in all of their territory.

(COMMENT)

The The Arab Summit in 1974 recognized the "Palestine Liberation Organization" as the “sole and legitimate representative of the Palestinian people;” (actually it says more than that but we'll leave that for another time). And even the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) contests that voice.

Hamas: PLO does not represent Palestinian people
Dr. Faiz Abu Shamala, journalist at official Hamas newspaper, 'Falastin,' challenges PLO’s ability to represent PA Arabs.
Contact Editor Dalit Halevy , 26/09/16 07:31
​

I cannot simply send a telegram to the UN Secretary-General, and say my block is the sovereign territory of the State of Rosano. I can meet all the requirements to be a sovereign state. But I don't exercise any sovereign authority exclusive to me. I don't think the Police will recognize my border control point and show me a Passport and buy a visa; at least until they stop laughing.

I believe the Arab Palestinians have a similar problem with that, if not more.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

No, not the same narrative at all.

But this still does not answer the allegations in Posting #3178. This would refer to the single example:

• Rule 23. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas. § Article 58(b) of Additional Protocol I
• Rule 24. Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives. § Article 58(a) of Additional Protocol I
​

See Posting #3175

Israel and Palestine use the exact same narrative.
Israel attacks in the direction of rockets.
Palestine attacks in the direction of tanks and airplanes.

(COMMENT)

Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity or political independence to intimidate the citizens of Israel.

Israel fires in the direction of a demonstrated armed threat to sovereignty and integrity of a State and its citizens in an effort through coercion to achieve that which Palestinians could not achieve.

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​

You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.

Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism

The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.

Try reading the mandate of palestine that sets in stone the borders of the proposed Jewish national home. No mention of part of it being an arab muslim national home.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

You are trying to imply that the use of the term "country" implies some sovereignty and/or independence. This is the difference in the expression in common usage and technical usage.

Actually, you're confused with this invented "country of "Pal'istan" you believe exists. It is one or more affiliates of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc., that is launching attacks aimed at Israel.

Look in the Mandate for Palestine document. Palestine was called a country ten times.

(COMMENT)

Your attempt to suggest that the usage of the term country gives some special status to the territory. The "country" is defined by the Palestine Order in Council and the Mandate in that the Government of Palestine is created to avoid the "statelessness" of the people.

The phrase "Government of Palestine" is the established by British Administration.

Most Respectfully,
R

As the trustee of Palestine, Britain was to render administrative assistance and advise until the Palestinians could stand alone. After 24 years of Mandate/military occupation, Britain failed to establish a representative government. They could have been in and out of there in 10-15 years leaving an independent state, but they failed to follow the LoN Covenant.

It was not their job as mandatory to establish a government, just to help those willing to establish a government to do so under the terms of the Mandate. Tell me again who refused to have any part in that function ? The LoN Covenant said that the Jewish NATIONal home was a priority in palestine, and to stop any violence they gave 72% of palestine to the arab muslims and called it trans Jordan

The Palestinians consistently lobbied Britain for a democratic government. Britain always refused.

The palestinians refusedc to take part in any negotiations so were refused their demands. As the LoN stated, and you constantly post, they were not about to make ALL of palestine a wholly arab muslim state. So they already had 78% in trans jordan and they were not going to get the last 28%. Britain was just the mandatory and as such had no say in the matter, the LoN was the authority they should have went to, but knowing that the LoN would demand they join in the discusions as part of the Mandate they refused.

3 reasons why the arab muslims failed in their endeavours to steal land that was never theirs, and why they are constantlt at war with each other and the world.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.

Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism

The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.

(COMMENT)

Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer. Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.

"This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states." (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010) The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades. Its control is undisputed by any challengers.

If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:

• Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
• Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.
​

As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined." There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.

Most Respectfully,
R

• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​

The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.

And here is the 64 million dollar question


WHAT IS THAT TERRITORY AND WHO GRANTED IT TO THEM POST 1922 ?

 

[Phoenall]

Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...​

You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.

Oh give me a break. You are saying that since ALL of Palestine is Palestine they are just firing on themselves and therefore its not illegal or hostile? Pah-leeze.

The Gazans are firing indiscriminately into civilian areas. Israel has a duty to protect Israeli citizens.

Going down this road of legal stupidity just demonstrates your desire to play foolish legal games at the expense of the lives of innocent Israelis and innocent Gazans.

Firing indiscriminately at innocent non-combatants is both ILLEGAL and IMMORAL. And it can not be tolerated. Just acknowledge that and move on.

You are saying that since ALL of Palestine is Palestine...​

Uhhh,

Yes a simple concept that the area on the map designate palestine is palestine and it takes in trans Jordan, Israel, west bank, gaza, parts of Egypt, Syria and Lebanon. It is not delineated as the extent can change from one day to the next.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It was never their territory.

P F Tinmore, et al,

I don't think you have a clue as to what it means to be a Westphalia Sovereign State.

Anything over the Green Line, which is the start of any negotiations for territorial integrirty. So the attacks on Sderot and Jerusalem are not resistance but terrorism

The green line was specifically not to be political or territorial borders. All maps of Israel show these non borders because it doesn't have real borders.

(COMMENT)

Your recognition --- indeed any other authority's recognition is not the answer. Thus your "Map" answer is invalid.

"This principle underscores the notion that a sovereign state has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states." (AISA POLICY brief Number 28 – June 2010) The Jewish State of Israel has defended their boundaries and sovereignty several times in the las 7 decades. Its control is undisputed by any challengers.

If country "X" enters country's "Y" territory either:

• Country "X" yields to Country "Y's" laws and sovereign authority.
• Country "Y" yields to Country "X" new laws and sovereign authority.
• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.
​

As long as Country "Y" has the authority to act independently over its own territory to the exclusion of other states (and even the behavioral criminals of the oPt, Israeli sovereignty is defined." There is no state in the civilized world that does not understand where Israeli sovereignty begins and ends.

Most Respectfully,
R

• Neither submits to the other and a conflict ensues between "X" and "Y" to resolve the territorial dispute.​

The Palestinians did not submit to Israel in their territory.

(COMMENT)

Show me the territorial boundaries in which the Arab Palestinians are sovereign.

(QUESTION)

What do you consider Palestinian Territory?

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians have the right to sovereignty in all of their territory.

Then they have to declare it, then show it and finally prove it. So when will they take these steps towards being a sovereign, as violence goes against each of these steps.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I have always answered that question. I don't duck the question! You just don't like the answer.

Palestinian fire in the direction of the territorial integrity...
​

​

You keep saying that but when I ask exactly where that territory is defined you duck the question.

(COMMENT)

The Jewish State of Israel maintains and exercises sovereignty over everything in "White" (or Beige like) on this Map.

View attachment 97438​

However, this map is not all inclusive of Israeli Sovereignty. There are things like the Exclusive Economic Zone that further extend Israeli Sovereignty.

Most Respectfully,
R

If there is no longer a green line around Gaza and the West Bank, whose territory is it?

Who ever holds it under international law, and agreed borders