Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[Shusha]

I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now.

Wow. So ethnic cleansing and genocide is just fine, as long as they "deserve it". Just wow.

 

[Ecocertifmrl]

I'd say if the Jews didn't deserve what they got in Germnay beforehand they sure have by now.

Wow. So ethnic cleansing and genocide is just fine, as long as they "deserve it". Just wow.

It's what Israelis do in palestina.

 

[Ecocertifmrl]

That's a lengthy post that doesn't correlate with my words; the Israelis started the war by creating a state that in practice was never going to work. And the Paelstinias have their right to that land. And the lands water sources for instance.

Please elaborate. Why was Israel "never going to work"? What about it "doesn't work"?

It is proclamed too soon. The Israelis have no more right to that land than palestinians. They made the move they knew would mean massacre for decades.

Also, what do you mean by "rights to that land"? Do you mean rights as citizens? Or rights to sovereignty?

Both.

Also, with respect to rights to things such as infrastructure and water, do obligations come with those rights? For example, is there an obligation not to steal water by breaking into delivery systems? Is there an obligation to maintain and repair delivery systems? Is there an obligation to obtain correct permits and follow a community plan?

I don't know whose obligations you're talking about. But a person with water has an obligation to give it to one who has none.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Isn't this supposed to be posted in a comedy forum?

 

[rylah]

1939: Australia vs Palestine soccer match.
Team Palestine is represented by the Star of David emblem.

 

[Shusha]

so, what do you mean by "rights to that land"? Do you mean rights as citizens? Or rights to sovereignty?

Both.

Okay. So far we agree.

Do the Jewish people also have rights to both?

 

[Shusha]

I don't know whose obligations you're talking about. But a person with water has an obligation to give it to one who has none.

That is a very broad statement. And it largely dodges my questions. "Water theft" is a common accusation against Israel taken up by useful idiots who have no understanding of the issues at hand and the legal requirements based on treaties and agreements. And, just so you know, you've hit upon one of my areas of significant interest and knowledge. Fair warning.

So, as an example. If nation A provides water to territory B and nation A is not permitted to enter territory B, due to mutual agreement of non-interference, and territory B has agreed to maintain and repair the delivery system for water provided by nation A and territory FAILS to do so, resulting in a lack of available water to the citizens of territory B...

1. Who has obligations in this case?
2. Who is responsible for correcting the problem of lack of water for "those who have none"?
3. If your answer is nation A, how do you propose to facilitate that correction with no access to territory B?

 

[Ecocertifmrl]

I don't know whose obligations you're talking about. But a person with water has an obligation to give it to one who has none.

That is a very broad statement. And it largely dodges my questions. "Water theft" is a common accusation against Israel taken up by useful idiots who have no understanding of the issues at hand and the legal requirements based on treaties and agreements. And, just so you know, you've hit upon one of my areas of significant interest and knowledge. Fair warning.

So, as an example. If nation A provides water to territory B and nation A is not permitted to enter territory B, due to mutual agreement of non-interference, and territory B has agreed to maintain and repair the delivery system for water provided by nation A and territory FAILS to do so, resulting in a lack of available water to the citizens of territory B...

1. Who has obligations in this case?
2. Who is responsible for correcting the problem of lack of water for "those who have none"?
3. If your answer is nation A, how do you propose to facilitate that correction with no access to territory B?

I'm a bit too frightened right now to think clearly but i am talking about moral responsibility.

 

[Shusha]

I don't know whose obligations you're talking about. But a person with water has an obligation to give it to one who has none.

That is a very broad statement. And it largely dodges my questions. "Water theft" is a common accusation against Israel taken up by useful idiots who have no understanding of the issues at hand and the legal requirements based on treaties and agreements. And, just so you know, you've hit upon one of my areas of significant interest and knowledge. Fair warning.

So, as an example. If nation A provides water to territory B and nation A is not permitted to enter territory B, due to mutual agreement of non-interference, and territory B has agreed to maintain and repair the delivery system for water provided by nation A and territory FAILS to do so, resulting in a lack of available water to the citizens of territory B...

1. Who has obligations in this case?
2. Who is responsible for correcting the problem of lack of water for "those who have none"?
3. If your answer is nation A, how do you propose to facilitate that correction with no access to territory B?

I'm a bit too frightened right now to think clearly but i am talking about moral responsibility.

Sure.

So does Canada have a moral responsibility to provide clean drinking water to Flint, Michigan? Why or why not?

Does Sweden have a moral obligation to provide water to rural isolated First Nations communities in northern Canada?

Does Japan have a moral responsibility to ensure clean drinking water in Congo.

BTW did you know that more than 2 billion people worldwide have no regular access to clean water?

 

[Ecocertifmrl]

I don't know whose obligations you're talking about. But a person with water has an obligation to give it to one who has none.

That is a very broad statement. And it largely dodges my questions. "Water theft" is a common accusation against Israel taken up by useful idiots who have no understanding of the issues at hand and the legal requirements based on treaties and agreements. And, just so you know, you've hit upon one of my areas of significant interest and knowledge. Fair warning.

So, as an example. If nation A provides water to territory B and nation A is not permitted to enter territory B, due to mutual agreement of non-interference, and territory B has agreed to maintain and repair the delivery system for water provided by nation A and territory FAILS to do so, resulting in a lack of available water to the citizens of territory B...

1. Who has obligations in this case?
2. Who is responsible for correcting the problem of lack of water for "those who have none"?
3. If your answer is nation A, how do you propose to facilitate that correction with no access to territory B?

I'm a bit too frightened right now to think clearly but i am talking about moral responsibility.

Sure.

So does Canada have a moral responsibility to provide clean drinking water to Flint, Michigan? Why or why not?

Does Sweden have a moral obligation to provide water to rural isolated First Nations communities in northern Canada?

Does Japan have a moral responsibility to ensure clean drinking water in Congo.

BTW did you know that more than 2 billion people worldwide have no regular access to clean water?

We are talking about water sources taken away from Palestinians and Israel holding onto some sources that they only occationally allow to be used by Palestinias. But that is obvious. So you're just trying to divert the subject to say everyone is equally morally obligued to do such things but that is not true. The very word "moral obligation" has the word moral in it because the whole obligation depend of the position onto whom the obligation falls.

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Ecocertifmrl]

 

[Shusha]

We are talking about water sources taken away from Palestinians and Israel holding onto some sources that they only occationally allow to be used by Palestinias. But that is obvious.

But what do you mean when you say "water sources taken away from Palestinians"? 100% of the people in Israel have access to water. Slightly less than that in the PA-controlled West Bank and Hamas-controlled Gaza. So do you mean that Israel has built one of the most sophisticated and technologically advanced water delivery systems in the world? That Israel is one of the world leaders in water conservation and management, this despite the fact that 44% of the water provided by Israel to Palestinians is LOST due to poorly maintained and unrepaired delivery infrastructure and theft? That Israel manages the Coastal Aquifer because it was this [ ] close to being permanently destroyed through over-use by the Palestinians? That Israel restricts the building of new wells to the Mountain Aquifer in order to prevent the same over-use and you know, actually manage the water supply in an area prone to drought and low rainfall? Or do you mean that one spring in Nabi Saleh which has become a symbol of "oppression" but doesn't actually provide much water?

Do you know what I mean when I say "useful idiot"? Its someone who hears a common sound bite, like "Israel steals Palestine's water" and adopts the sound bite without any research and knowledge. They begin to parrot the idea without understanding anything about the facts and realities, or even stop to think about what the sound bite means.

So you're just trying to divert the subject to say ...

What I am trying to do is take the conversation away from a simplistic "Israel is evil" and discuss the topics more fairly, more objectively and in more depth. I'm trying to get people to do the work and gain the knowledge and quit with the meaningless sound bites. I'm trying to get the useful idiots to start taking apart these sound bites and begin to understand the complex issues involved.

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Ecocertifmrl]

We are talking about water sources taken away from Palestinians and Israel holding onto some sources that they only occationally allow to be used by Palestinias. But that is obvious.

But what do you mean when you say "water sources taken away from Palestinians"?

There used to be a river very conceniently so the Palestinians had an easy access to it. Israelis changed the water route for their own convenience.

100% of the people in Israel have access to water. Where is Israel? And how do ypu know this?

Slightly less than that in the PA-controlled West Bank and Hamas-controlled Gaza.

actually the Israelis intend to starve the Palestinian to death preferably which is why they want it to be difficult for them to get water.

 

[Sixties Fan]

The British Foreign Office showed appalling judgement when scheduling a visit by Prince William to a refugee camp in the West Bank which should have been closed down long ago. The Prince – obviously moved by what he saw – remarked:

“I saw at Jalazon (refugee camp) the tremendous hardships faced by the refugees, and I can only imagine the difficulties of life lived under these conditions, the ed (sic) resources and the lack of opportunity

” Regrettably Prince William failed to question why:

1. Jalazon had not been dismantled during the past 25 years after it came under Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) control. 2. Jalazon’s inhabitants should still be classified as “refugees” when they are living in part of former Palestine now under PLO occupation. Prince William’s visit was closely followed by a meeting between Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and United Nations (UN) Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process – Nickolay Mladenov.

During their meeting Abbas stressed the UN's important role in providing protection for
the “Palestinian people” and the necessity of continuing to provide services to the “Palestinian refugees” through the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA).

Undiscussed between them was why the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza have failed to close down the 27 refugee camps still remaining within their respective fiefdoms.

The West Bank currently has 775,000 registered “refugees” – around a quarter of who live in 19 refugee camps. Most of the others live in West Bank towns and villages. Some camps are located next to major towns and others are in rural areas.

UNRWA provides services in these 19 Palestine refugee camps – but does not administer or police the camps – as this is the responsibility of the PLO – intriguingly identified as the “host authority” by UNRWA Gaza has 1.3 million registered “refugees” – of who 500,000currently live in 8 refugee camps. As in the West Bank – UNRWA does not administer or police these camps -this being the responsibility of the “host authority” – Hamas.

The West Bank refugee camps are all located within Areas “A” and “B” – some 40% of the territory of the West Bank – being under full PLO administrative control as designated by the Oslo Accords. 95% of the West Bank Arab population – including all those living in the refugee camps – live in Areas “A” and “B”

(full article online)

Daphne Anson: David Singer: Hamas and PLO Entrench Apartheid in Gaza and West Bank

 

[Ecocertifmrl]

Yes. Isralis are empathetic. Even when they're beating you up.

 

[Sixties Fan]

EU officials said following the incident that the EU was dissatisfied with Hamdallah's performance and the contempt he displayed towards the delegation.

The delegation is headed by Christian Danielsson, responsible for the Middle East in the European Commision and for funds transferred to the Palestinian Authority, as well as the European Union's foreign affairs managing director Fernando Gentilini, who served as EU envoy for the peace process.

Hamdallah's refusal to meet with the delegation comes after the demand by the two officials that Hamdallah give explanations about the use of EU funds, amid suspicions that the PA is using EU funds to make payments to terrorists and their families.

(full article online)

Outrage after PA snubs EU

 

[Shusha]

...actually the Israelis intend to starve the Palestinian to death preferably which is why they want it to be difficult for them to get water.

Seriously? Israel is doing a spectacularly poor job of it then, since Palestinians enjoy one of the longest life expectancies in the Middle East, along with an extraordinarily high birth rate, low infant mortality and obesity levels similar to Americans. One would think Israel wouldn't be so...well, incompetent.

I stand corrected. You are not a useful idiot. Just another vile, toxic poster spreading blood libels about the Jooooooos.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Yesterday was the 13th anniversary of the London bombings on July 7, 2005. On that day, Muslim terrorists detonated three bombs on London's Underground and a fourth on a double-decker bus. In the explosions, 52 people were murdered and over 700 were injured.

Since its creation in 1994, the Palestinian Authority has spent billions of shekels rewarding and incentivizing Palestinian terrorism against Israelis, paying monthly salaries to imprisoned terrorists as well as monthly allowances to the families of the so-called "Martyrs," including suicide bombers.
If the London terrorists had been Palestinians who had carried out equivalent attacks in Jerusalem targeting Israelis, the PA would have already paid the families of the four terrorists a combined total of £142,680 pounds (687,200 shekels).

PA Minister of Education and Higher Education Sabri Saidam announced in November 2017 that the UK government had agreed to pay its annual contribution of 20 million pounds, which is "
allocated to support the [PA] general budget of Palestine." [WAFA, official PA news agency, Nov. 25, 2017]

This allocation is only a fraction of the financial support the UK government provides to the PA annually.

In its 2018 budget, the PA allocated 680 million shekels from its general budget, predominantly to pay allowances to the families of thousands of dead Palestinian terrorist "Martyrs," including those who have carried out suicide attacks.

One of the Palestinian families who receives such payments is the family of suicide bomber Wafa Idris who carried out a suicide attack in the heart of Jerusalem in January 2002, murdering one and injuring over 100.

The document approving her "Martyr" status and the PA allocation of the allowance to her family explains that Idris:

"... carried out an act of martyrdom (sic. suicide attack) in occupied Jerusalem (sic. attack was in West Jerusalem) when she blew herself up in a group of Zionists. This led to the death of one of them, to the injury of more than 100 others, and to her death as a Martyr at the site, according to the enemy's media report. The Al-Aqsa Martyr Brigades (Fatah's military wing) claimed responsibility for the attack... She died as a Martyr when she carried out a heroic act against the Zionists in the occupied city of Jerusalem."
[Palestinian Ministry of Welfare and the Institute of Martyrs and the Wounded, February 2002]

Since it is inconceivable that the UK would fund allowances to the families of the London bombers, one would expect that the UK similarly would reject funding such allowances to Palestinian terrorists.

(full article online)

Imagine if the London bombers had been Palestinian bombers - PMW Bulletins