Who here is collecting retirement social security??

[MikeK]

For simplicity's sake let's assume you start making 40K when you are 22 and never get a raise until you retire at age 67
If you earn 40K a year you have approx 95 dollars taken from a pay period you if you get paid biweekly.

Your employer matches that

So (95x2)26/12 = 412 a month

If you saved that $412 a month and got a 6.5% average annual return (A very conservative portfolio BTW) you would have $1,333,655

Now what kind of payout is that in retirement you ask?

If you got a 4% average annual return from the day you retired (A good investment grade bond portfolio) you would be able to withdraw 5000 a month for 30 years and still have over $350,000 to leave to your grand-kids

Now think how much you would have if you just saved another 5% of your income how about another 10%?

Compare that to the max payout of about $2500 a month for SS and then factor in that the person in our example probable won't get the max payout and then tell me SS isn't designed to keep you poor

FICA (Social Security) requires your employer to match your contribution (100%). How much is your employer required to contribute to your 401k?

But even if you have a generous employer who chooses to match your contribution, consider the critically important factor of risk, which wiped out a lot of 401k investments during the 2008 collapse.

(Excerpt)

The effects of the current economic crisis have touched everyone. Even if you still have a good job and a paid up mortgage, chances are your monthly 401(k) statement will remind you that you've lost a good chunk of your savings.

Trillions of dollars have evaporated from those accounts that have become the prime source of retirement funds for a majority of American workers, affecting their psyche and their future. If you are still young enough, there's time to rebuild and recover, but if you are in your 50s, 60s or beyond the consequences can be dire, and its drawing attention to the shortcomings of a retirement system that has jeopardized the financial security of tens of millions of people.
Retirement Dreams Disappear With 401(k)s

(Close)

You have no such concern with Social Security.

As long as the U.S. Government remains solvent, you will receive your monthly allotment. So if you are one of those who doesn't mind risk, and playing stock market games, and/or trusting some Wall Street broker to manage your future, and you don't outlive the maximum output of your 401k account, you possibly could do somewhat better than you would with Social Security. But most workers don't care to be bothered with all that.

So don't leave the proven important factor of risk out of your glowing projection.

 

[Skull Pilot]

For simplicity's sake let's assume you start making 40K when you are 22 and never get a raise until you retire at age 67
If you earn 40K a year you have approx 95 dollars taken from a pay period you if you get paid biweekly.

Your employer matches that

So (95x2)26/12 = 412 a month

If you saved that $412 a month and got a 6.5% average annual return (A very conservative portfolio BTW) you would have $1,333,655

Now what kind of payout is that in retirement you ask?

If you got a 4% average annual return from the day you retired (A good investment grade bond portfolio) you would be able to withdraw 5000 a month for 30 years and still have over $350,000 to leave to your grand-kids

Now think how much you would have if you just saved another 5% of your income how about another 10%?

Compare that to the max payout of about $2500 a month for SS and then factor in that the person in our example probable won't get the max payout and then tell me SS isn't designed to keep you poor

FICA (Social Security) requires your employer to match your contribution (100%). How much is your employer required to contribute to your 401k?

But even if you have a generous employer who chooses to match your contribution, consider the critically important factor of risk, which wiped out a lot of 401k investments during the 2008 collapse.

(Excerpt)

The effects of the current economic crisis have touched everyone. Even if you still have a good job and a paid up mortgage, chances are your monthly 401(k) statement will remind you that you've lost a good chunk of your savings.

Trillions of dollars have evaporated from those accounts that have become the prime source of retirement funds for a majority of American workers, affecting their psyche and their future. If you are still young enough, there's time to rebuild and recover, but if you are in your 50s, 60s or beyond the consequences can be dire, and its drawing attention to the shortcomings of a retirement system that has jeopardized the financial security of tens of millions of people.
Retirement Dreams Disappear With 401(k)s

(Close)

You have no such concern with Social Security. As long as the U.S. Government remains solvent, you will receive your monthly allotment. So if you are one of those who doesn't mind risk, and playing stock market games, and/or trusting some Wall Street broker to manage your future, and you don't outlive the maximum output of your 401k account, you possibly could do somewhat better than you would with Social Security. But most workers don't care to be bothered with all that.

So don't leave the proven important factor of risk out of your glowing projection.

Look at any 45 year period of the stock market and then tell me when a 45 year period was ever negative

I purposely used a very conservative ROR.

And what you fail to mention is that no one lost anything in their 401k if they didn't take it out

In fact all most people had to do was wait a couple years and they would have been right back to where they were before the crash and then some

 

[Tom Horn]

And you are living on considerably less than you would have if you were able to actually invest the money taken from you over your working career and you most likely would have had something to leave your grand kids as well

I did the math for you in an earlier post go ahead and try to tell me you're getting better deal with SS

No one who knows anything about money thinks SS is an investment

What the FUCK makes you think you know how much I'm "living on" ya little toad? You didn't do any "math" either....just some vague statement about "investing" which you obviously know nothing about either. Tell me this, how did the investors in Lehman Brothers and Bear Sterns do? I lost $165K with the two of them. What if my whole nest egg had been "in the market"? Just STFU.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And you are living on considerably less than you would have if you were able to actually invest the money taken from you over your working career and you most likely would have had something to leave your grand kids as well

I did the math for you in an earlier post go ahead and try to tell me you're getting better deal with SS

No one who knows anything about money thinks SS is an investment

What the FUCK makes you think you know how much I'm "living on" ya little toad? You didn't do any "math" either....just some vague statement about "investing" which you obviously know nothing about either. Tell me this, how did the investors in Lehman Brothers and Bear Sterns do? I lost $165K with the two of them. What if my whole nest egg had been "in the market"? Just STFU.

I know that max SS payout is 2500 a month so you are probably getting something less than that

Thank you for illustrating your ignorance of investing

You only lost money if you sold your holdings for less than you bought them.

I have never lost money in any of my investments and I have been investing regularly since I was 18

 

[Tom Horn]

For simplicity's sake let's assume you start making 40K when you are 22 and never get a raise until you retire at age 67
If you earn 40K a year you have approx 95 dollars taken from a pay period you if you get paid biweekly.

Your employer matches that

So (95x2)26/12 = 412 a month

If you saved that $412 a month and got a 6.5% average annual return (A very conservative portfolio BTW) you would have $1,333,655

Now what kind of payout is that in retirement you ask?

If you got a 4% average annual return from the day you retired (A good investment grade bond portfolio) you would be able to withdraw 5000 a month for 30 years and still have over $350,000 to leave to your grand-kids

Now think how much you would have if you just saved another 5% of your income how about another 10%?

Compare that to the max payout of about $2500 a month for SS and then factor in that the person in our example probable won't get the max payout and then tell me SS isn't designed to keep you poor

FICA (Social Security) requires your employer to match your contribution (100%). How much is your employer required to contribute to your 401k?

But even if you have a generous employer who chooses to match your contribution, consider the critically important factor of risk, which wiped out a lot of 401k investments during the 2008 collapse.

(Excerpt)

The effects of the current economic crisis have touched everyone. Even if you still have a good job and a paid up mortgage, chances are your monthly 401(k) statement will remind you that you've lost a good chunk of your savings.

Trillions of dollars have evaporated from those accounts that have become the prime source of retirement funds for a majority of American workers, affecting their psyche and their future. If you are still young enough, there's time to rebuild and recover, but if you are in your 50s, 60s or beyond the consequences can be dire, and its drawing attention to the shortcomings of a retirement system that has jeopardized the financial security of tens of millions of people.
Retirement Dreams Disappear With 401(k)s

(Close)

You have no such concern with Social Security.

As long as the U.S. Government remains solvent, you will receive your monthly allotment. So if you are one of those who doesn't mind risk, and playing stock market games, and/or trusting some Wall Street broker to manage your future, and you don't outlive the maximum output of your 401k account, you possibly could do somewhat better than you would with Social Security. But most workers don't care to be bothered with all that.

So don't leave the proven important factor of risk out of your glowing projection.

Forget this fool...he's trying to portray himself as an investor which he surely is not and never will be.

 

[MikeK]

Look at any 45 year period of the stock market and then tell me when a 45 year period was ever negative

I purposely used a very conservative ROR.

And what you fail to mention is that no one lost anything in their 401k if they didn't take it out

In fact all most people had to do was wait a couple years and they would have been right back to where they were before the crash and then some

That's not true.

Lots of 401k investors were wiped out by the economic crisis of the Bush years.

Retirement Dreams Disappear With 401(k)s

 

[Skull Pilot]

Look at any 45 year period of the stock market and then tell me when a 45 year period was ever negative

I purposely used a very conservative ROR.

And what you fail to mention is that no one lost anything in their 401k if they didn't take it out

In fact all most people had to do was wait a couple years and they would have been right back to where they were before the crash and then some

That's not true.

Lots of 401k investors were wiped out by the economic crisis of the Bush years.

Retirement Dreams Disappear With 401(k)s

They were only wiped out if they liquidated their assets at a loss

If they did that it was their own fault

And if they were still in equities when they retired that was their own fault too

 

[Tom Horn]

I know that max SS payout is 2500 a month so you are probably getting something less than that

Thank you for illustrating your ignorance of investing

You only lost money if you sold your holdings for less than you bought them.

I have never lost money in any of my investments and I have been investing regularly since I was 18

And what are you now, 19? Do you have any idea who Lehman and Bear Sterns were or what happened to their investors? Seriously, STFU.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I know that max SS payout is 2500 a month so you are probably getting something less than that

Thank you for illustrating your ignorance of investing

You only lost money if you sold your holdings for less than you bought them.

I have never lost money in any of my investments and I have been investing regularly since I was 18

And what are you now, 19? Do you have any idea who Lehman and Bear Sterns were or what happened to their investors? Seriously, STFU.

Sorry but I am almost 50 and IDGAF about any investment firms since I have never used one

The question is why would you?

 

[Tom Horn]

Lots of 401k investors were wiped out by the economic crisis of the Bush years.

Retirement Dreams Disappear With 401(k)s

I'd just opened my own First Data (FDIS) agency in late 2007. By the Spring of 2008, I had almost 200 merchants using our services.....by November, 1st. 144 of them were either filing for bankruptcy or about to. I sold my remaining accounts back to FD for peanuts and later I learned they'd taken a bath on what they paid me. Like I said, "skull pilot" (the term used to be for chicks who gave good head) doesn't know a 401K from a 400 Kawasaki.

 

[Arizona Willie]

For simplicity's sake let's assume you start making 40K when you are 22 and never get a raise until you retire at age 67
If you earn 40K a year you have approx 95 dollars taken from a pay period you if you get paid biweekly.

Your employer matches that

So (95x2)26/12 = 412 a month

If you saved that $412 a month and got a 6.5% average annual return (A very conservative portfolio BTW) you would have $1,333,655

Now what kind of payout is that in retirement you ask?

If you got a 4% average annual return from the day you retired (A good investment grade bond portfolio) you would be able to withdraw 5000 a month for 30 years and still have over $350,000 to leave to your grand-kids

Now think how much you would have if you just saved another 5% of your income how about another 10%?

Compare that to the max payout of about $2500 a month for SS and then factor in that the person in our example probable won't get the max payout and then tell me SS isn't designed to keep you poor

FICA (Social Security) requires your employer to match your contribution (100%). How much is your employer required to contribute to your 401k?

But even if you have a generous employer who chooses to match your contribution, consider the critically important factor of risk, which wiped out a lot of 401k investments during the 2008 collapse.

(Excerpt)

The effects of the current economic crisis have touched everyone. Even if you still have a good job and a paid up mortgage, chances are your monthly 401(k) statement will remind you that you've lost a good chunk of your savings.

Trillions of dollars have evaporated from those accounts that have become the prime source of retirement funds for a majority of American workers, affecting their psyche and their future. If you are still young enough, there's time to rebuild and recover, but if you are in your 50s, 60s or beyond the consequences can be dire, and its drawing attention to the shortcomings of a retirement system that has jeopardized the financial security of tens of millions of people.
Retirement Dreams Disappear With 401(k)s

(Close)

You have no such concern with Social Security.

As long as the U.S. Government remains solvent, you will receive your monthly allotment. So if you are one of those who doesn't mind risk, and playing stock market games, and/or trusting some Wall Street broker to manage your future, and you don't outlive the maximum output of your 401k account, you possibly could do somewhat better than you would with Social Security. But most workers don't care to be bothered with all that.

So don't leave the proven important factor of risk out of your glowing projection.

========
Most people don't have the time or intellectual firepower to devote to understanding the market.

I've played the market up until 2007 when I could clearly see it was being manipulated by the large hedge funds. Companies would announce record sales and record earnings and their stock would drop instead of going up and other companies would be losing money and their stock would go up instead of down.

I pulled out of the market and put it all in CD's and avoided the crash.

But I was able to be a full time investor unlike most people who still have to hold a job.

If you can't be a full time investor stay out of the market and NEVER let some broker handle your money for you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Lots of 401k investors were wiped out by the economic crisis of the Bush years.

Retirement Dreams Disappear With 401(k)s

I'd just opened my own First Data (FDIS) agency in late 2007. By the Spring of 2008, I had almost 200 merchants using our services.....by November, 1st. 144 of them were either filing for bankruptcy or about to. I sold my remaining accounts back to FD for peanuts and later I learned they'd taken a bath on what they paid me. Like I said, "skull pilot" (the term used to be for chicks who gave good head) doesn't know a 401K from a 400 Kawasaki.

Seems to me it's you who doesn't understand the market

I'll bet you think a 401 is a good deal too?

FYI it's not. I could tell you why but I'll let you try to figure it out

 

[Skull Pilot]

For simplicity's sake let's assume you start making 40K when you are 22 and never get a raise until you retire at age 67
If you earn 40K a year you have approx 95 dollars taken from a pay period you if you get paid biweekly.

Your employer matches that

So (95x2)26/12 = 412 a month

If you saved that $412 a month and got a 6.5% average annual return (A very conservative portfolio BTW) you would have $1,333,655

Now what kind of payout is that in retirement you ask?

If you got a 4% average annual return from the day you retired (A good investment grade bond portfolio) you would be able to withdraw 5000 a month for 30 years and still have over $350,000 to leave to your grand-kids

Now think how much you would have if you just saved another 5% of your income how about another 10%?

Compare that to the max payout of about $2500 a month for SS and then factor in that the person in our example probable won't get the max payout and then tell me SS isn't designed to keep you poor

FICA (Social Security) requires your employer to match your contribution (100%). How much is your employer required to contribute to your 401k?

But even if you have a generous employer who chooses to match your contribution, consider the critically important factor of risk, which wiped out a lot of 401k investments during the 2008 collapse.

(Excerpt)

The effects of the current economic crisis have touched everyone. Even if you still have a good job and a paid up mortgage, chances are your monthly 401(k) statement will remind you that you've lost a good chunk of your savings.

Trillions of dollars have evaporated from those accounts that have become the prime source of retirement funds for a majority of American workers, affecting their psyche and their future. If you are still young enough, there's time to rebuild and recover, but if you are in your 50s, 60s or beyond the consequences can be dire, and its drawing attention to the shortcomings of a retirement system that has jeopardized the financial security of tens of millions of people.
Retirement Dreams Disappear With 401(k)s

(Close)

You have no such concern with Social Security.

As long as the U.S. Government remains solvent, you will receive your monthly allotment. So if you are one of those who doesn't mind risk, and playing stock market games, and/or trusting some Wall Street broker to manage your future, and you don't outlive the maximum output of your 401k account, you possibly could do somewhat better than you would with Social Security. But most workers don't care to be bothered with all that.

So don't leave the proven important factor of risk out of your glowing projection.

========
Most people don't have the time or intellectual firepower to devote to understanding the market.

I've played the market up until 2007 when I could clearly see it was being manipulated by the large hedge funds. Companies would announce record sales and record earnings and their stock would drop instead of going up and other companies would be losing money and their stock would go up instead of down.

I pulled out of the market and put it all in CD's and avoided the crash.

But I was able to be a full time investor unlike most people who still have to hold a job.

If you can't be a full time investor stay out of the market and NEVER let some broker handle your money for you.

Long term investing is not "playing the market"

 

[Tom Horn]

Most people don't have the time or intellectual firepower to devote to understanding the market.

I've played the market up until 2007 when I could clearly see it was being manipulated by the large hedge funds. Companies would announce record sales and record earnings and their stock would drop instead of going up and other companies would be losing money and their stock would go up instead of down.

I pulled out of the market and put it all in CD's and avoided the crash.

But I was able to be a full time investor unlike most people who still have to hold a job.

If you can't be a full time investor stay out of the market and NEVER let some broker handle your money for you.

The market these days is institutional investors buying and selling each other's paper with interest-free Fed money....the little guys like you and me are long gone.

 

[MikeK]

Long term investing is not "playing the market"

Planning a 401k portfolio is indeed playing the market.

 

[MikeK]

Most people don't have the time or intellectual firepower to devote to understanding the market.

[...]

I was born at the peak of the Great Depression. While I have only vague recollection of the miseries attending that era my parents often talked about how close they were to being made homeless, and of of oatmeal on Thanksgiving, and of winter morning morgue-wagon sweeps picking up frozen corpses on certain streets, and on and on. My family suffered through that era and they would tell you in great detail how it was FDR's efforts and policies that enabled them to pull out of it and join the emerging middle class.

The advice my father drilled into our heads was to never invest in anything but U.S. Savings Bonds (back then they were "War Bonds"), get a good education, and take a good civil-service job. He said we wouldn't get rich but we'd never want for anything. And he was right.

I've had one friend who did very well by investing and I presently have a neighbor who lived in a million dollar home in Colt's Neck (NJ) until the Bush collapse. He says he "lost everything but his ass" and was barely lucky enough to end up with a one bedroom condo in our retirement community. No more Lexus and no more Atlantic City weekends for them.

And then there are the Bernie Madoff victims.

So, while I could possibly have ended up wearing tailored suits and driving a new Cadillac, I also could have ended up on welfare or living in a trailer park. As it is I've managed to raise three healthy, smart, beautiful young ladies and I'm quite content with my older Cadillac, my comfortable condominium, and the fact that, as my father advised, I've never gone hungry or longed for anything.

 

[MikeK]

The market these days is institutional investors buying and selling each other's paper with interest-free Fed money....the little guys like you and me are long gone.

Have you watched the Inside Job video linked on my signature line? If not I think you'll really enjoy it. It's interesting and entertaining.

 

[boedicca]

By the time I retire, I fully expect that SS will have utterly collapsed into insolvency.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From a retirement "planning" perspective, that is a very good strategy. Always plan for the worst.

But more than likely the program will survive and you'll get your benefits.

Yep, that is how I'm figuring it. But even then, any SS benefits will be a very poor return on "investment".

 

[boedicca]

By the time I retire, I fully expect that SS will have utterly collapsed into insolvency.

Lots of people feel that way and have been feeling that way ever since the program was started about eighty years ago. That's because it seems too good to be true.

But it is true and it has been faithfully and flawlessly fulfilling its promise month after month, year after year, enabling millions of seniors to live out their delicate years with comfort and dignity.

Don't worry about it. You will be skeptical until the day that first check arrives in the mail or appears direct-deposited in your checking account. A pleasant surprise that will set your mind at ease.

You are considerably older than me. The first SS recipients were supported by a ratio of over 60 taxpayers to beneficiaries. We are now crashing through 3:1. The early folks in on a Ponzi Scheme generally cash out well before it craters.

 

[HenryBHough]

Those who were offered participation in a 401K plan and elected not to deserve to eke out a living on Social Security - to the extent that any work they might ever have done qualified them.