Who owns the west?

[Camp]

Under any explanation or understanding Trump is correct in giving the states the land within those states?

The President does not have that authority. Only Congress has the authority to transfer federal lands. Trump is suggesting that taking away the Monument status of certain public lands would give states and local governments more say in how the land is used, the same way other public lands are treated.

 

[OKTexas]

Americans have paid for public lands with blood and treasure. Americans have financed and invested in the upkeep and protection of those lands year after year since they became territories and later as public lands within states. Whenever the topic of transferring those lands to new owners it is nothing more than schemes to allow private interest to exploit the wealth and investments of the American people.

Show me in the Constitution were the federal government are authorized to make investments for the American people outside the enumerated powers.

Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2
"The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States, or of any particular state."

The federal government assumed authority over the West, they didn't buy it, with the exception of Alaska. Even Alaska was treated differently, than say, the land bought under the LA purchase.

 

[Old Rocks]

Do lefties really think portions of the U.S. are "owned" rather than governed? Maybe that's the reason the democrat party lost most of the governorships in the last decade. Why do lefties think "we the people" isn't the same as the federal government?

What a fucked up idiot you are. On the BLM and Forest Service land I can hunt, fish, look for rocks, or just hike and enjoy the land. Huge portions of the private land now have hunting and fishing rights sold to private sports clubs. A very big area in Eastern Oregon had the ranches there sell their hunting access to a sports club. I looked up the club, to find out what it took to be a member. It was totally owned by Saudi's. This is what you are advocating for by advocating the privatization of the BLM and Forest Service land.

 

[Camp]

Do lefties really think portions of the U.S. are "owned" rather than governed? Maybe that's the reason the democrat party lost most of the governorships in the last decade. Why do lefties think "we the people" isn't the same as the federal government?

Revolutionary War soldiers were given "government owned" property as payment for their service during the war. The US government became property owners as a result of the Revolution.

 

[martybegan]

That's why Trump is doing such a great service by overturning obama's land grabs and returning the land to the states.

Bless him.

The states don't own federal land. We the People do.

So I guess you would be OK with the feds barging in and telling you how you can run the parks by you as well right?

Its "the people's land" after all....

 

[OKTexas]

That's why Trump is doing such a great service by overturning obama's land grabs and returning the land to the states.

Bless him.

The land will still be federal land. Trump is proposing taking away the Federal Monument status that protects the land from certain types development of some of the land. His proposal is to open the lands to private industry for extraction of resources.

US taxpayers have been paying for the protection, caretaking, and maintenance of those lands. The states do not have the financial ability to do the same.

And none of that is true. These brand new out the door federal land grabs did nothing but take land from the states. The US taxpayer did not pay a dime for the maintenance of these sites. Trump's proposal is to return the land to the states where that land has been since before the state was a state. Trump cannot open state land up for private development. It's state land. Only the state can make that decision.

Perhaps you can show where even one acre of the land designated as National Monuments was a state-owned acre before it was made into a National Monument. Also, how could the land be state land since before it was a state? The land belonged to the territory before statehood. That means it was federal property before statehood. At what point to you claim any of the federal lands became state land?

The day it was included within the boundaries of a State.

 

[sakinago]

The federal government, who represents We the People, owns most of the West.

Not the locals. Not the extraction industries. We the People.

Uh nooo, the FED is not supposed to own STATE land like that. It's suppose to go to the states, who do a much better job at representing the people who live in those states than the FED. The federal government was told twice by SCOTUS to give the land back to the states. If the fed owns that land, then we as citizens cannot own that land.

 

[Camp]

That's why Trump is doing such a great service by overturning obama's land grabs and returning the land to the states.

Bless him.

The land will still be federal land. Trump is proposing taking away the Federal Monument status that protects the land from certain types development of some of the land. His proposal is to open the lands to private industry for extraction of resources.

US taxpayers have been paying for the protection, caretaking, and maintenance of those lands. The states do not have the financial ability to do the same.

And none of that is true. These brand new out the door federal land grabs did nothing but take land from the states. The US taxpayer did not pay a dime for the maintenance of these sites. Trump's proposal is to return the land to the states where that land has been since before the state was a state. Trump cannot open state land up for private development. It's state land. Only the state can make that decision.

Perhaps you can show where even one acre of the land designated as National Monuments was a state-owned acre before it was made into a National Monument. Also, how could the land be state land since before it was a state? The land belonged to the territory before statehood. That means it was federal property before statehood. At what point to you claim any of the federal lands became state land?

The day it was included within the boundaries of a State.

You just made that up. The states ceded those lands to the federal government in their applications to become states by specifically ceding the public lands in their constitutions, which were submitted and reviewed by Congress before Congress approved their statehoods. You can look up any of the state constitutions and find the sections and clauses.

 

[Hum Dinger]

The federal government, who represents We the People, owns most of the West.

Not the locals. Not the extraction industries. We the People.

WRONG! I own the West and the entire rest of the world as well!

I just have to figure out how to get all of you dumb asses to recognize that fact...

And I want you all to get the fuck off of my property!

 

[OKTexas]

Any state admitted into the Union enjoys the same constitutional rights as any other state, and the federal government is subject to the same constitutional limitations applicable to any other state.

We the People have always owned those lands. We paid for them

States were formed on land we already owned. If they want to buy back those lands from the rest of us....let them pay fair market price

Repeating nonsense only confirms its value as nonsense.

The Constitution is the law. Period. And it covers all states.

And Art 4 Sec 3 makes it quite clear that the federal government for We the People governs national lands. Not you. Not the locals. Not the states.

And this says for what purposes the feds may have legislative authority over lands within a State:

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--

That Article does not refer to public lands. It refers to lands in a state that have been purchased by the federal government

So where did they get the Authority to buy the Sam Houston National Forest from TX in the 1930s? Come on dude, let's see how consistent you are.

 

[OKTexas]

That's why Trump is doing such a great service by overturning obama's land grabs and returning the land to the states.

Bless him.

The land will still be federal land. Trump is proposing taking away the Federal Monument status that protects the land from certain types development of some of the land. His proposal is to open the lands to private industry for extraction of resources.

US taxpayers have been paying for the protection, caretaking, and maintenance of those lands. The states do not have the financial ability to do the same.

And none of that is true. These brand new out the door federal land grabs did nothing but take land from the states. The US taxpayer did not pay a dime for the maintenance of these sites. Trump's proposal is to return the land to the states where that land has been since before the state was a state. Trump cannot open state land up for private development. It's state land. Only the state can make that decision.

Perhaps you can show where even one acre of the land designated as National Monuments was a state-owned acre before it was made into a National Monument. Also, how could the land be state land since before it was a state? The land belonged to the territory before statehood. That means it was federal property before statehood. At what point to you claim any of the federal lands became state land?

The day it was included within the boundaries of a State.

You just made that up. The states ceded those lands to the federal government in their applications to become states by specifically ceding the public lands in their constitutions, which were submitted and reviewed by Congress before Congress approved their statehoods. You can look up any of the state constitutions and find the sections and clauses.

You mean they were extorted by the feds. Same question I asked before, what if they said no?

 

[OKTexas]

Do lefties really think portions of the U.S. are "owned" rather than governed? Maybe that's the reason the democrat party lost most of the governorships in the last decade. Why do lefties think "we the people" isn't the same as the federal government?

What a fucked up idiot you are. On the BLM and Forest Service land I can hunt, fish, look for rocks, or just hike and enjoy the land. Huge portions of the private land now have hunting and fishing rights sold to private sports clubs. A very big area in Eastern Oregon had the ranches there sell their hunting access to a sports club. I looked up the club, to find out what it took to be a member. It was totally owned by Saudi's. This is what you are advocating for by advocating the privatization of the BLM and Forest Service land.

If you're caught taking rocks you can be prosecuted.

 

[sakinago]

That's why Trump is doing such a great service by overturning obama's land grabs and returning the land to the states.

Bless him.

The land will still be federal land. Trump is proposing taking away the Federal Monument status that protects the land from certain types development of some of the land. His proposal is to open the lands to private industry for extraction of resources.

US taxpayers have been paying for the protection, caretaking, and maintenance of those lands. The states do not have the financial ability to do the same.

And none of that is true. These brand new out the door federal land grabs did nothing but take land from the states. The US taxpayer did not pay a dime for the maintenance of these sites. Trump's proposal is to return the land to the states where that land has been since before the state was a state. Trump cannot open state land up for private development. It's state land. Only the state can make that decision.

Perhaps you can show where even one acre of the land designated as National Monuments was a state-owned acre before it was made into a National Monument. Also, how could the land be state land since before it was a state? The land belonged to the territory before statehood. That means it was federal property before statehood. At what point to you claim any of the federal lands became state land?

The day it was included within the boundaries of a State.

You just made that up. The states ceded those lands to the federal government in their applications to become states by specifically ceding the public lands in their constitutions, which were submitted and reviewed by Congress before Congress approved their statehoods. You can look up any of the state constitutions and find the sections and clauses.

No it's called the admissions clause. Article 4, section 3, clause 1. Just because states ceded the land in order to become states, on Feds insistence, doesn't make it constitutional.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Those lands never belonged to the states

Any state admitted into the Union enjoys the same constitutional rights as any other state, and the federal government is subject to the same constitutional limitations applicable to any other state.

We the People have always owned those lands. We paid for them

States were formed on land we already owned. If they want to buy back those lands from the rest of us....let them pay fair market price

Repeating nonsense only confirms its value as nonsense.

The Constitution is the law. Period. And it covers all states.

And Art 4 Sec 3 makes it quite clear that the federal government for We the People governs national lands. Not you. Not the locals. Not the states.

And this says for what purposes the feds may have legislative authority over lands within a State:

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--

Article IV Section 3, bud. Too bad.

 

[Camp]

We the People have always owned those lands. We paid for them

States were formed on land we already owned. If they want to buy back those lands from the rest of us....let them pay fair market price

Repeating nonsense only confirms its value as nonsense.

The Constitution is the law. Period. And it covers all states.

And Art 4 Sec 3 makes it quite clear that the federal government for We the People governs national lands. Not you. Not the locals. Not the states.

And this says for what purposes the feds may have legislative authority over lands within a State:

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--

That Article does not refer to public lands. It refers to lands in a state that have been purchased by the federal government

So where did they get the Authority to buy the Sam Houston National Forest from TX in the 1930s? Come on dude, let's see how consistent you are.

Texas was not a territory when Texas became a state. All public lands in Texas were owned by the Texas government or county governments at the time Texas became a state.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That's why Trump is doing such a great service by overturning obama's land grabs and returning the land to the states.

Bless him.

The land will still be federal land. Trump is proposing taking away the Federal Monument status that protects the land from certain types development of some of the land. His proposal is to open the lands to private industry for extraction of resources.

US taxpayers have been paying for the protection, caretaking, and maintenance of those lands. The states do not have the financial ability to do the same.

And none of that is true. These brand new out the door federal land grabs did nothing but take land from the states. The US taxpayer did not pay a dime for the maintenance of these sites. Trump's proposal is to return the land to the states where that land has been since before the state was a state. Trump cannot open state land up for private development. It's state land. Only the state can make that decision.

Perhaps you can show where even one acre of the land designated as National Monuments was a state-owned acre before it was made into a National Monument. Also, how could the land be state land since before it was a state? The land belonged to the territory before statehood. That means it was federal property before statehood. At what point to you claim any of the federal lands became state land?

The day it was included within the boundaries of a State.

Only land per the agreement making a territory a state. Federal land, otherwise, remained federal land. Next.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The federal government, who represents We the People, owns most of the West.

Not the locals. Not the extraction industries. We the People.

Uh nooo, the FED is not supposed to own STATE land like that. It's suppose to go to the states, who do a much better job at representing the people who live in those states than the FED. The federal government was told twice by SCOTUS to give the land back to the states. If the fed owns that land, then we as citizens cannot own that land.

OK, we know your unsupported opinion substituting for fact.

 

[JakeStarkey]

We the People have always owned those lands. We paid for them

States were formed on land we already owned. If they want to buy back those lands from the rest of us....let them pay fair market price

Repeating nonsense only confirms its value as nonsense.

The Constitution is the law. Period. And it covers all states.

And Art 4 Sec 3 makes it quite clear that the federal government for We the People governs national lands. Not you. Not the locals. Not the states.

And this says for what purposes the feds may have legislative authority over lands within a State:

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--

That Article does not refer to public lands. It refers to lands in a state that have been purchased by the federal government

So where did they get the Authority to buy the Sam Houston National Forest from TX in the 1930s? Come on dude, let's see how consistent you are.

By agreement and contract between the US and TX.

You have to show they did not have the authority, and you have not done that.

Your affirmation, sweet cheeks, so support it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The land will still be federal land. Trump is proposing taking away the Federal Monument status that protects the land from certain types development of some of the land. His proposal is to open the lands to private industry for extraction of resources.

US taxpayers have been paying for the protection, caretaking, and maintenance of those lands. The states do not have the financial ability to do the same.

And none of that is true. These brand new out the door federal land grabs did nothing but take land from the states. The US taxpayer did not pay a dime for the maintenance of these sites. Trump's proposal is to return the land to the states where that land has been since before the state was a state. Trump cannot open state land up for private development. It's state land. Only the state can make that decision.

Perhaps you can show where even one acre of the land designated as National Monuments was a state-owned acre before it was made into a National Monument. Also, how could the land be state land since before it was a state? The land belonged to the territory before statehood. That means it was federal property before statehood. At what point to you claim any of the federal lands became state land?

The day it was included within the boundaries of a State.

You just made that up. The states ceded those lands to the federal government in their applications to become states by specifically ceding the public lands in their constitutions, which were submitted and reviewed by Congress before Congress approved their statehoods. You can look up any of the state constitutions and find the sections and clauses.

No it's called the admissions clause. Article 4, section 3, clause 1. Just because states ceded the land in order to become states, on Feds insistence, doesn't make it constitutional.

That's your opinion substituting for the fact that, yes, the TERRITORIAL cessions were legal.

 

[Avatar4321]

The correct answer is the Mormons. The Mormons own the west.

You should know this jake