Who's Afraid of Socialism?

[georgephillip]

Apparently, Friedman's "free markets" require totalitarian control?

Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, eh comrade?

Sure hope it never happens to anyone in your family, Kulak

Assassination of Orlando Letelier - Wikipedia

 

[georgephillip]

E. Germain: The Marxist Theory of Imperialism and its Critics (1955)

Yeah, when I'm looking for an expert on economics, my favorite source is a Marxist lawyer.....DERP!

Who's your top pick for economic's expert?

Milton Friedman is pretty good.

I thought you were a believer in free markets? The first thing the Chicago School did in Chile was close down every economics department in the country except for their chosen seminary at the Catholic University. They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint. Apparently, Friedman's "free markets" require totalitarian control?

"They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint."

Horseshit. Have got any credible sources to support that?

As if you care:

Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile - Wikipedia

"Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile were the crimes against humanity, persecution of opponents, political repression and state terrorism committed by the Chilean Armed Forces, members of Carabineros de Chile and civil repressive agents members of a secret police, during the dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet in Chile from September 11, 1973, until March 11, 1990.

"According to the Commission of Truth and Reconciliation (Rettig Commission) and the National Commission on Political Imprisonment and Torture (Valech Commission), the number of direct victims of human rights violations in Chile accounts for around 30,000 people: 27,255 tortured and 2,279 executed.

"In addition, some 200,000 people suffered exile and an unknown number went through clandestine centers and illegal detention.[citation needed]"

 

[basquebromance]

i believe we can have a small government that can work for everyone

call me a Republican Socialist

 

[bripat9643]

Yeah, when I'm looking for an expert on economics, my favorite source is a Marxist lawyer.....DERP!

Who's your top pick for economic's expert?

Milton Friedman is pretty good.

I thought you were a believer in free markets? The first thing the Chicago School did in Chile was close down every economics department in the country except for their chosen seminary at the Catholic University. They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint. Apparently, Friedman's "free markets" require totalitarian control?

"They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint."

Horseshit. Have got any credible sources to support that?

As if you care:

Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile - Wikipedia

"Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile were the crimes against humanity, persecution of opponents, political repression and state terrorism committed by the Chilean Armed Forces, members of Carabineros de Chile and civil repressive agents members of a secret police, during the dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet in Chile from September 11, 1973, until March 11, 1990.

"According to the Commission of Truth and Reconciliation (Rettig Commission) and the National Commission on Political Imprisonment and Torture (Valech Commission), the number of direct victims of human rights violations in Chile accounts for around 30,000 people: 27,255 tortured and 2,279 executed.

"In addition, some 200,000 people suffered exile and an unknown number went through clandestine centers and illegal detention.[citation needed]"

Where's the support for the claim that they conducted an "assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians?"

First off, Wikipedia isn't credible, and neither are any of these leftwing commissions who believe communists who take up arms against their own government should be treated like asylum seekers. The people Pinochet's government killed deserved what they got. Pinochet was fighting a civil war. People get killed in wars.

 

[georgephillip]

socialism requires social morals for free not capital morals for a market friendly price.

communism may only require Ten simple Commandments from a God to achieve a Commune of Heaven on Earth.

The Communist Manifesto: The Ten Commandments of LOGIC

 

[Andylusion]

socialism requires social morals for free not capital morals for a market friendly price.

communism may only require Ten simple Commandments from a God to achieve a Commune of Heaven on Earth.

The Communist Manifesto: The Ten Commandments of LOGIC

None of your posts seem to make a point.

What argument have you made in the last 5 posts? Nothing. Not a single valid point, about anything.

And the irony of your 10 commandments of logic, is that you last dozen posts, all violate those laws.

 

[bripat9643]

i believe we can have a small government that can work for everyone

call me a Republican Socialist

It doesn't work for people who don't want work and instead want to suck off what other people produce.

 

[bripat9643]

socialism requires social morals for free not capital morals for a market friendly price.

communism may only require Ten simple Commandments from a God to achieve a Commune of Heaven on Earth.

The Communist Manifesto: The Ten Commandments of LOGIC

That isn't in the Communist Manifesto, and you are guilty of all of them.

 

[georgephillip]

And yes, you are correct that the wealthy cannot pack up land, or buildings. But that does not matter. The value of those buildings, and that land, is entirely dependent on what you can do with them. Under a socialist system, you can't do anything with them. If you can't make a profit, because of regulations and controls and taxes.... then what value is there in having a building to run your business in?

Do you believe the factors of production lose all usefulness if there is no way of earning a profit from them?

 

[georgephillip]

socialism requires social morals for free not capital morals for a market friendly price.

communism may only require Ten simple Commandments from a God to achieve a Commune of Heaven on Earth.

The Communist Manifesto: The Ten Commandments of LOGIC

That isn't in the Communist Manifesto, and you are guilty of all of them.

I'm not guilty of supporting this...

"As the number of men with as much wealth as half the world fell from sixty-two to just eight between January 2016 and January 2017, according to Oxfam International, fewer than 200 super-connected asset managers at only 17 asset management firms—each with well over a trillion dollars in assets under management–now represent the financial core of the world’s transnational capitalist class."

Giants: The Global Power Elite - Project Censored

 

[Andylusion]

And yes, you are correct that the wealthy cannot pack up land, or buildings. But that does not matter. The value of those buildings, and that land, is entirely dependent on what you can do with them. Under a socialist system, you can't do anything with them. If you can't make a profit, because of regulations and controls and taxes.... then what value is there in having a building to run your business in?

Do you believe the factors of production lose all usefulness if there is no way of earning a profit from them?

First off, there is virtually no difference whatsoever, between a for-profit company, and a non-profit company.

Both have to make a profit. No company can operate without a profit.

Most of the health insurance companies that the left-wing are so fond of complaining about, are non-profit.

Kaiser Foundation Health Plan
Kaiser Foundation Hospitals
Blue Cross and Blue Shield
Primera
Highmark
Affinity
and hundreds of others are all non-profit.

They still make a profit.

But in general, the best companies, that provide the most value to the most people, are for-profit companies. If non-profits were as effective, they would be at equally represented in the production of goods and services. They are not. And the reason it quite simple.

In the book Uncharitable, by Dan Pallotta, he talks about how running a for-profit charity drive resulted in far more money being raised for charity. Non-profit limits talent, limits expansion, limits how a company can invest for future growth.

Does that mean there is no possible way to run a company in a non-profit?

Of course you can. And of course you can be productive.

But do you want a large company providing millions of jobs? Or a small non-profit producing a few 100 jobs? Which is better?

Do you want a large company creating billions in wealth for the whole country? Or a non-profit producing millions?

Why did all of Obamas health care co-ops all fail? Because in general for-profit companies do better.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Letting people keep more of their own money isn't a give away; however, welfare is a give away.

Do you believe you have a right to your pre-tax income?
If so, is is a legal or a moral right?

It's a moral right. What gives anyone else the right to it?

If you believe you have a moral right to your pre-tax income then you must believe an amoral market (at best) distributes incomes in a completely just manner.

So a cancer researcher earns more than some high-frequency parasite on Wall Street or a prissy New York real estate speculator, right?

As long as coercion isn't involved, then how is it unjust? You opinion on how much people should earn is purely idiosyncratic. It has no basis in fact.

Coercive persuasion or brainwashing reduces a person's ability to think critically and independently, and one would have to be thoroughly brainwashed to believe a market economy accidentally delivers to each person exactly what they deserve. You don't have to look any further than the Oval Office to see that.

Brainwashing - Wikipedia

one would have to be thoroughly brainwashed to believe a market economy accidentally delivers to each person exactly what they deserve.

Only politburo can deliver exactly what you deserve, eh comrade?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Apparently, Friedman's "free markets" require totalitarian control?

Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, eh comrade?

Sure hope it never happens to anyone in your family, Kulak

Assassination of Orlando Letelier - Wikipedia

Wait, Commies are immune to assassination?
You guys get to have all the fun?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yeah, when I'm looking for an expert on economics, my favorite source is a Marxist lawyer.....DERP!

Who's your top pick for economic's expert?

Milton Friedman is pretty good.

I thought you were a believer in free markets? The first thing the Chicago School did in Chile was close down every economics department in the country except for their chosen seminary at the Catholic University. They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint. Apparently, Friedman's "free markets" require totalitarian control?

"They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint."

Horseshit. Have got any credible sources to support that?

As if you care:

Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile - Wikipedia

"Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile were the crimes against humanity, persecution of opponents, political repression and state terrorism committed by the Chilean Armed Forces, members of Carabineros de Chile and civil repressive agents members of a secret police, during the dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet in Chile from September 11, 1973, until March 11, 1990.

"According to the Commission of Truth and Reconciliation (Rettig Commission) and the National Commission on Political Imprisonment and Torture (Valech Commission), the number of direct victims of human rights violations in Chile accounts for around 30,000 people: 27,255 tortured and 2,279 executed.

"In addition, some 200,000 people suffered exile and an unknown number went through clandestine centers and illegal detention.[citation needed]"

the number of direct victims of human rights violations in Chile accounts for around 30,000 people: 27,255 tortured and 2,279 executed.

Bunch of capitalist pikers. Commies would have added a couple of zeros to those totals.

 

[Andylusion]

Yeah, when I'm looking for an expert on economics, my favorite source is a Marxist lawyer.....DERP!

Who's your top pick for economic's expert?

Milton Friedman is pretty good.

I thought you were a believer in free markets? The first thing the Chicago School did in Chile was close down every economics department in the country except for their chosen seminary at the Catholic University. They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint. Apparently, Friedman's "free markets" require totalitarian control?

"They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint."

Horseshit. Have got any credible sources to support that?

As if you care:

Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile - Wikipedia

"Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile were the crimes against humanity, persecution of opponents, political repression and state terrorism committed by the Chilean Armed Forces, members of Carabineros de Chile and civil repressive agents members of a secret police, during the dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet in Chile from September 11, 1973, until March 11, 1990.

"According to the Commission of Truth and Reconciliation (Rettig Commission) and the National Commission on Political Imprisonment and Torture (Valech Commission), the number of direct victims of human rights violations in Chile accounts for around 30,000 people: 27,255 tortured and 2,279 executed.

"In addition, some 200,000 people suffered exile and an unknown number went through clandestine centers and illegal detention.[citation needed]"

You do realize that socialists murdered millions on millions, right? That doesn't mean that Pinochet wasn't committing crimes. Surely he was.

But if you think that this makes the case the left-wingers have been better on human rights.... you are beyond uninformed, you are a blithering idiot.

 

[francoHFW]

Totalitarian means it is not democratic. or coming from the Democratic party either.

Sadly, that's not true. People can vote for astonishingly evil things.

They voted Hitler into office.

No they did not he only got 33% of the vote or something but more than anyone else. And Hindenburg appointed him Chancellor big mistake. As usual you have no clue you dupes...

Hindenburg had to appoint him to something because his party got the most votes in the election. That's how the German government worked.

Yes, the democratic result what a big mistake. Thanks for admitting it.

Hindenburg got 53% of the vote Hitler 37% in the presidential election. The Nazis got 36.3% in the following legislature elections. Hindenburg appointed him and he didn't need to...

Many thanks to the GOP for Wrecking the world economy again and setting up the chaos that led to Hitler and the Japanese militarists. Great job scumbag GOP and silly dupes like you. Thank God this time Democrats got in fast to avert another mess like this. Only cost about 8 trillion dollars. The EU also spent about that much, but the rest of the world just suffered. See Africa the Middle East and South America if you're wondering where all the refugees and pain is.

 

[francoHFW]

Totalitarian means it is not democratic. or coming from the Democratic party either.

Sadly, that's not true. People can vote for astonishingly evil things.

They voted Hitler into office.

No they did not he only got 33% of the vote or something but more than anyone else. And Hindenburg appointed him Chancellor big mistake. As usual you have no clue you dupes...

Hindenburg had to appoint him to something because his party got the most votes in the election. That's how the German government worked.

Yes, the democratic result what a big mistake. Thanks for admitting it.

Hindenburg got 53% of the vote Hitler 37% in the presidential election. The Nazis got 36.3% in the following legislature elections. Hindenburg appointed him and he didn't need to...

Many thanks to the GOP for Wrecking the world economy again and setting up the chaos that led to Hitler and the Japanese militarists. Great job scumbag GOP and silly dupes like you. Thank God this time Democrats got in fast to avert another mess like this. Only cost about 8 trillion dollars. The EU also spent about that much, but the rest of the world just suffered. See Africa the Middle East and South America if you're wondering where all the refugees and pain is.

 

[francoHFW]

Who's your top pick for economic's expert?

Milton Friedman is pretty good.

I thought you were a believer in free markets? The first thing the Chicago School did in Chile was close down every economics department in the country except for their chosen seminary at the Catholic University. They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint. Apparently, Friedman's "free markets" require totalitarian control?

"They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint."

Horseshit. Have got any credible sources to support that?

As if you care:

Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile - Wikipedia

"Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile were the crimes against humanity, persecution of opponents, political repression and state terrorism committed by the Chilean Armed Forces, members of Carabineros de Chile and civil repressive agents members of a secret police, during the dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet in Chile from September 11, 1973, until March 11, 1990.

"According to the Commission of Truth and Reconciliation (Rettig Commission) and the National Commission on Political Imprisonment and Torture (Valech Commission), the number of direct victims of human rights violations in Chile accounts for around 30,000 people: 27,255 tortured and 2,279 executed.

"In addition, some 200,000 people suffered exile and an unknown number went through clandestine centers and illegal detention.[citation needed]"

You do realize that socialists murdered millions on millions, right? That doesn't mean that Pinochet wasn't committing crimes. Surely he was.

But if you think that this makes the case the left-wingers have been better on human rights.... you are beyond uninformed, you are a blithering idiot.

The Socialists in Chile? You are out of your tiny little mind. Like real socialist and not Communists, they were Democrats and mainly involved in social reform... Another brilliant effort by covert Republicans, just like wrecking Iran in 1953 and Central America multiple times. Stupid jackasses forever..

 

[francoHFW]

There are sanctions, but they are sanctions against individuals who are acting corruptly on the world market, at the expense of the Venezuelan people.

Venezuela-Related Sanctions

They target specific officials in the Venezuelan government, that are using the power of the government to screw over what little wealth is left in the country, and exporting it into hidden accounts out of the country.

They target the basis of Venezuela's economy in much the same way US sanctions have targeted Cuba with exactly the same motive: to destroy any alternative to the Washington Consensus.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf

"Broader Economic Sanctions In addition to targeted sanctions against individuals, President Trump has imposed broader economic sanctions on Venezuela because of the government’s serious human rights sabuses, antidemocratic actions, and responsibility for the deepening humanitarian crisis.

"In August 2017, President Trump issued E.O. 13808, which prohibits access to the U.S. financial markets by the Venezuelan government, including Venezuela’s state oil company, Petróleos de Venezuela, S.A., or PdVSA, with certain exceptions to minimize the impact on the Venezuelan people and U.S. economic interests.

"The sanctions seek to restrict the Venezuelan government’s access to U.S. debt and equity markets.

"Among the exceptions are transactions for new debt by CITGO, owned by PdVSA; transactions by U.S. owners of Venezuelan/PdVSA bonds on secondary markets; financing for agricultural and medical exports; and short-term financing to facilitate trade."

Right. All of which makes sense. There is a massive corruption scheme going on at PDVSA. They report billions in 'profits', but then can't account for the money. I think a decade from now, we'll find the people in government were siphoning off money into tax shelters around the world.

Again, as I said before... clearly the socialists are bleeding the country dry, while people are dying. Everything Trump is doing in regards to PDVSA is absolutely justified.

Again... any claims that what is going on in Venezuela have anything to do with Trump, are pure ignorance.

Venezuela was in a death spiral in 2016. Actually they have been in a death spiral since 2000. Claiming that Trump had anything to do with declining oil production that started in 2001, is ridiculous.

Food shortages first started showing up in 2003. They got worse in 2005, even while oil prices were going up. The real damage from food shortages started in 2014. Long before Trump was even a candidate.

So this whole "blame trump because I'm an ignorant idiot" crap, doesn't work when faced with facts.

Actually Venezuela has been in a death spiral forever...

 

[francoHFW]

Who's your top pick for economic's expert?

Milton Friedman is pretty good.

I thought you were a believer in free markets? The first thing the Chicago School did in Chile was close down every economics department in the country except for their chosen seminary at the Catholic University. They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint. Apparently, Friedman's "free markets" require totalitarian control?

"They began an assassination program of left-wing professors, labor leaders and politicians and imposed neoliberalism by gunpoint."

Horseshit. Have got any credible sources to support that?

As if you care:

Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile - Wikipedia

"Human rights violations in Pinochet's Chile were the crimes against humanity, persecution of opponents, political repression and state terrorism committed by the Chilean Armed Forces, members of Carabineros de Chile and civil repressive agents members of a secret police, during the dictatorship of Augusto Pinochet in Chile from September 11, 1973, until March 11, 1990.

"According to the Commission of Truth and Reconciliation (Rettig Commission) and the National Commission on Political Imprisonment and Torture (Valech Commission), the number of direct victims of human rights violations in Chile accounts for around 30,000 people: 27,255 tortured and 2,279 executed.

"In addition, some 200,000 people suffered exile and an unknown number went through clandestine centers and illegal detention.[citation needed]"

You do realize that socialists murdered millions on millions, right? That doesn't mean that Pinochet wasn't committing crimes. Surely he was.

But if you think that this makes the case the left-wingers have been better on human rights.... you are beyond uninformed, you are a blithering idiot.

Totalitarian and dictatorships are the problem, whether they are right-wing Nazis and fascists or left-wing communists. Duh. Democracy is the solution, and if there is a problem with democracy,
the solution is more democracy.