Why Bush and Cheney are lying idiots.

[sitarro]

I'll agree with you on that. Thats why it's not a perfect thing...But there is the need for basic help, which socialist programs offer. But they should also set up programs that help poor people make a life for themselves. I'd also like to add that we shouldn't generalize this again, a lot of people that benefit from those programs do go on and work hard and make a better life for themselves.

Trillions of dollars have been spent to help people all over the world by we , the evil people of the United States , what have we gained from that ? Billions have been spent on the poor here in the United States and it is never enough . The "poor" need to take responsibility for their own actions . If you can't feed yourself logic should tell you that you will not be able to feed 6 kids and yourself . Third world countries aren't the ones slowing down their population growth , why?
We the people of the United States have contributed through our tax dollars and private contributions close to a billion dollars to countries that suffered great loss in the tidal wave last month . These are people that hate us and are already demanding we leave . Why bother ? We can spend nothing and be hated just as much . How many UN countries are coming to the aid of the U.S. ?
This is why most of us couldn't give a shit what the propaganda filled world thinks of us . They are wrong about us just as you are kid .
Let the rest of the world get their shit together before they criticize us!

 

[j07950]

I work every summer in France and 20% of my earnings are taken from me by the government, I could use that money, I still stand believe in it though.

 

[j07950]

Trillions of dollars have been spent to help people all over the world by we , the evil people of the United States , what have we gained from that ? Billions have been spent on the poor here in the United States and it is never enough . The "poor" need to take responsibility for their own actions . If you can't feed yourself logic should tell you that you will not be able to feed 6 kids and yourself . Third world countries aren't the ones slowing down their population growth , why?
We the people of the United States have contributed through our tax dollars and private contributions close to a billion dollars to countries that suffered great loss in the tidal wave last month . These are people that hate us and are already demanding we leave . Why bother ? We can spend nothing and be hated just as much . How many UN countries are coming to the aid of the U.S. ?
This is why most of us couldn't give a shit what the propaganda filled world thinks of us . They are wrong about us just as you are kid .
Let the rest of the world get their shit together before they criticize us!

What the hell are you talking about...how does this come into the discussion? You've just waisted your time writing that...

 

[Shattered]

What the hell are you talking about...how does this come into the discussion? You've just waisted your time writing that...

I'm pretty sure this one line from the entire paragraph he typed sums things up pretty well:

Billions have been spent on the poor here in the United States and it is never enough.

 

[j07950]

I'm pretty sure this one line from the entire paragraph he typed sums things up pretty well:

Billions have been spent on the poor here in the United States and it is never enough.

Why bother writing so much than...lol
Yeah I see what he's getting at...what's the solution than? Letting people die of hunger in your own country? It's a vicious circle. Like he said it's never enough but those people don't have the same opportunities to begin with. Children born into the welfare system don't know anything else, and if it lets them eat and survive without working it doesn't necessarily give them the tools to succeed either... What can be done?

 

[Shattered]

Why bother writing so much than...lol
Yeah I see what he's getting at...what's the solution than? Letting people die of hunger in your own country? It's a vicious circle. Like he said it's never enough but those people don't have the same opportunities to begin with. Children born into the welfare system don't know anything else, and if it lets them eat and survive without working it doesn't necessarily give them the tools to succeed either... What can be done?

Children born into the welfare system go to the same schools you and I went to, and pretty much have the same opportunities. Do your homework, get good grades, go on to receive a scholarship, or tuition assistance, and make something of yourself. 99% of it is all up to you.

I know single mothers in their 30's with kids who are busting their asses to get *some* kind of degree, when they COULD just be sitting back and collecting welfare... Those mothers are far and few between, and the rest of the "poor" society could stand to learn a thing or two from them. Who has it harder? Someone born into welfare, or someone who's single, with a few mouths to feed, and a shitload of homework?

 

[j07950]

Children born into the welfare system go to the same schools you and I went to, and pretty much have the same opportunities. Do your homework, get good grades, go on to receive a scholarship, or tuition assistance, and make something of yourself. 99% of it is all up to you.

I know single mothers in their 30's with kids who are busting their asses to get *some* kind of degree, when they COULD just be sitting back and collecting welfare... Those mothers are far and few between, and the rest of the "poor" society could stand to learn a thing or two from them. Who has it harder? Someone born into welfare, or someone who's single, with a few mouths to feed, and a shitload of homework?

Agree with you, although it's not that simple. Working hard, getting good grades and than a scholarship is the right thing to do...but more often than not the social context in which these kids live in doesn't help, they have other things to worry about than getting good grades. But idealistically this would be the right thing to do.

I've also been asking myself for some time if it was possible for everyone on the earth to earn a descent living and live well... Would there be enough work for everyone? Enough money to share?
What do you think?

 

[Shattered]

The social context I lived in didn't help... You know what it took for me? Watching TV. Watching dumb family sitcomes after school and thinking "Hey.. Those parents have nice houses, and good jobs.. They're not eating mac & cheese and tacos every night just because it's cheap.. *I* want that when I grow up! ...What's the common denominator in all of these shows?" The parents get up and go to WORK every day! They don't sit around waiting for a check to arrive in the mail, they're not sitting around trying to scam cash in exchange for foodstamps, etc.

Sure.. You can hand someone money and food 7 days a week.. How is that *really* helping them? If you want to help them, fine.. enact a few programs that offer financial support.. BUT, with the following conditions:

A) NO cash is given directly to the recipient.
B) All bills are paid directly to the company/utility/landlord.
C) NO extracirricular activities will be paid for.
D) Food will come in the form of vouchers for specific items only made payable directly to the grocery store by the recipient *only* (that means a picture ID is required to redeem.
E) If you become pregnant while on said program, you're immediately REMOVED from said program. If you can't afford to take care of yourself, you sure as hell can't afford a/another child.
F) This aid will be provided to you for a period of 6 months. Within that 6 months, you will go to mandatory training courses which teach you basic skills such as how to apply/interview for a job.
G) You will apply for no less than 3 jobs each day, and prove it.
H) If a job you apply for is offered to you, you will accept it. Period.

If any of the above conditions are not met, you will be removed from the program. After 6 months, your case will be reviewed (by a real person - not an automated system), and it will be decided at that time if additional assistance is necessary for you, or if you're just a drain on society...

 

[j07950]

The social context I lived in didn't help... You know what it took for me? Watching TV. Watching dumb family sitcomes after school and thinking "Hey.. Those parents have nice houses, and good jobs.. They're not eating mac & cheese and tacos every night just because it's cheap.. *I* want that when I grow up! ...What's the common denominator in all of these shows?" The parents get up and go to WORK every day! They don't sit around waiting for a check to arrive in the mail, they're not sitting around trying to scam cash in exchange for foodstamps, etc.

Sure.. You can hand someone money and food 7 days a week.. How is that *really* helping them? If you want to help them, fine.. enact a few programs that offer financial support.. BUT, with the following conditions:

A) NO cash is given directly to the recipient.
B) All bills are paid directly to the company/utility/landlord.
C) NO extracirricular activities will be paid for.
D) Food will come in the form of vouchers for specific items only made payable directly to the grocery store by the recipient *only* (that means a picture ID is required to redeem.
E) If you become pregnant while on said program, you're immediately REMOVED from said program. If you can't afford to take care of yourself, you sure as hell can't afford a/another child.
F) This aid will be provided to you for a period of 6 months. Within that 6 months, you will go to mandatory training courses which teach you basic skills such as how to apply/interview for a job.
G) You will apply for no less than 3 jobs each day, and prove it.
H) If a job you apply for is offered to you, you will accept it. Period.

If any of the above conditions are not met, you will be removed from the program. After 6 months, your case will be reviewed (by a real person - not an automated system), and it will be decided at that time if additional assistance is necessary for you, or if you're just a drain on society...

Sounds good, but what happens if they are a drain on society? Let him starve or rob a bank?

 

[Shattered]

Sounds good, but what happens if they are a drain on society? Let him starve or rob a bank?

If none of what I previously typed is motivation enough for them to get off their tails, then maybe the threat of impending starvation will be...

 

[manu1959]

what's the solution than? Letting people die of hunger in your own country? It's a vicious circle.

not true they do nothing because they know someone will bail them out...they wrok the system

funny thing...they stopped handing out cash in San Francisco and offered help; jobs, places to sellp food etc... guess what happend to all the poor starving people waiting to die unless they were given money....they didn't die i can tell you that....if your choice is die or figure it out .... i pretty sure people will figure it out ... and if you tell me i am worng i will ask how the human race survived until welfare and hand outs appeared

 

[manu1959]

The social context I lived in didn't help... You know what it took for me? Watching TV. Watching dumb family sitcomes after school and thinking "Hey.. Those parents have nice houses, and good jobs.. They're not eating mac & cheese and tacos every night just because it's cheap.. *I* want that when I grow up! ...What's the common denominator in all of these shows?" The parents get up and go to WORK every day! They don't sit around waiting for a check to arrive in the mail, they're not sitting around trying to scam cash in exchange for foodstamps, etc.

Sure.. You can hand someone money and food 7 days a week.. How is that *really* helping them? If you want to help them, fine.. enact a few programs that offer financial support.. BUT, with the following conditions:

A) NO cash is given directly to the recipient.
B) All bills are paid directly to the company/utility/landlord.
C) NO extracirricular activities will be paid for.
D) Food will come in the form of vouchers for specific items only made payable directly to the grocery store by the recipient *only* (that means a picture ID is required to redeem.
E) If you become pregnant while on said program, you're immediately REMOVED from said program. If you can't afford to take care of yourself, you sure as hell can't afford a/another child.
F) This aid will be provided to you for a period of 6 months. Within that 6 months, you will go to mandatory training courses which teach you basic skills such as how to apply/interview for a job.
G) You will apply for no less than 3 jobs each day, and prove it.
H) If a job you apply for is offered to you, you will accept it. Period.

If any of the above conditions are not met, you will be removed from the program. After 6 months, your case will be reviewed (by a real person - not an automated system), and it will be decided at that time if additional assistance is necessary for you, or if you're just a drain on society...

run for office

 

[Said1]

not true they do nothing because they know someone will bail them out...they wrok the system

And then they teach their kids how to work the system and so on.

 

[Shattered]

run for office

I'd probably be assassinated within a year.

 

[j07950]

not true they do nothing because they know someone will bail them out...they wrok the system

funny thing...they stopped handing out cash in San Francisco and offered help; jobs, places to sellp food etc... guess what happend to all the poor starving people waiting to die unless they were given money....they didn't die i can tell you that....if your choice is die or figure it out .... i pretty sure people will figure it out ... and if you tell me i am worng i will ask how the human race survived until welfare and hand outs appeared

Oh I'm not saying your wrong. I wasn't aware of that San Fransisco thing, it's a good thing. I guess they should try it all over. But like I asked before, is there enough jobs for everyone anyway??? If they all wanted to work, would it be possible?

 

[Said1]

Oh I'm not saying your wrong. I wasn't aware of that San Fransisco thing, it's a good thing. I guess they should try it all over. But like I asked before, is there enough jobs for everyone anyway??? If they all wanted to work, would it be possible?

Is it the government's responsibility to create a job, and take care of you until you die?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

If they all wanted to work, would it be possible?

Any willing to pull up their pants and cut swear words from their vocabulary, just for a while, can get a job.

What do you think all the immigration problems from mexico are all about. Why do you think they're coming here, the cooler climate?

Jobs baby. Good landscaping jobs. A days work for a days pay. I wish I could work with my hands. But I was born middle class, my familial pride keeps me on some kind of bizarre quest to only work with my mind.

 

[j07950]

Ok fine, get the whole immigration thing... Say that keeps going (I'm not even going to talk about the low wages) but if those immigrants keep coming in and all of sudden all the unemployed and poors decide to work...will there be enough jobs? Thats all I'm wondering really.
Why is one half of the earth rich and the other half poor...is it only due to people being lazy or does it have to be that way for other people to be rich? What do you think about this one...? I've been woundering myself for a while and still am not sure about the answer...What do you think?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Ok fine, get the whole immigration thing... Say that keeps going (I'm not even going to talk about the low wages) but if those immigrants keep coming in and all of sudden all the unemployed and poors decide to work...will there be enough jobs? Thats all I'm wondering really.
Why is one half of the earth rich and the other half poor...is it only due to people being lazy or does it have to be that way for other people to be rich? What do you think about this one...? I've been woundering myself for a while and still am not sure about the answer...What do you think?

I think it's people with forms of government too unstable for mass investment in enterprises larger than a fruit market. A canon of corporate law which protects the small invester and truly level the playing field for all willing to use the corporate system. It takes some learning. Typical governments are occupied by the power hungry, who go into government in the first place for lucrative control of all markets. Not that our government is 100 percent pure, but the corporate government separation of power remains, at least on paper, at the highest levels. Of course it frays some at the very top. But power is as power does. And I don't believe leftist are more pure for denying the existence of market forces all together, thus keeping everything undercover and stinking.

 

[j07950]

I think it's people with forms of government too unstable for mass investment in enterprises larger than a fruit market. A canon of corporate law which protects the small invester and truly level the playing field for all willing to use the corporate system. It takes some learning. Typical governments are occupied by the power hungry, who go into government in the first place for lucrative control of all markets. Not that our government is 100 pecent pure, but the corporate government sepration of power remains, at least on paper, at the highest levels. Of course it frays some at the very top. But power is as power does. And I don't believe leftist are more pure for denying the existence of market forces all together, thus keeping everything undercover and stinking.

Interesting...
So you think the poor half of the world (It's more than that but anyway) is poor because of unstable governments?
Ok than do you think it will ever be possible for the other half of the world (the poor countries) to rise up and become even half as rich as other nations, or are they doomed?