Why Can't the Pro-Choice Crowd Be Honest?

[DiamondDave]

I would really like to see some proof of these supposed people stopping Sex Ed or for that matter people or policy's stopping a women from terminating a child from rape or incest.

Use the search function. There are many here that believe teaching people how to not get pregnant encourages them to have sex.

And there are many that believe that it is not the function of the state to discuss the personal subject of sex (and sexual practices) and what is ok to minors who are under the responsibility of parent/parents...

And there are, of course, varying stances on the rape/incest/mother's health portion... just as there are varying stances on when an unborn child can/should be terminated on the pro-choice side

 

[Ravi]

I would really like to see some proof of these supposed people stopping Sex Ed or for that matter people or policy's stopping a women from terminating a child from rape or incest.

Use the search function. There are many here that believe teaching people how to not get pregnant encourages them to have sex.

And there are many that believe that it is not the function of the state to discuss the personal subject of sex (and sexual practices) and what is ok to minors who are under the responsibility of parent/parents...

And there are, of course, varying stances on the rape/incest/mother's health portion... just as there are varying stances on when an unborn child can/should be terminated on the pro-choice side

Yes, and the irony comes in when those very same people think it is the function of the state to dictate when and if a woman gives birth.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Funny though how its the Left begging for more War and Cheering the whole sale murder of innocent lives. "holier than thou" card for either side..... Indeed

It's always fun to hear people who cheer and beg for more war use the emotional tagline "commit murder."

Moral and rational people can be either pro-life or pro-choice, it's intellectually embarrassing to play the "holier than thou" card for either side.

On another note is there anyone on the planet who's "pro-abortion"? Seems like the OP posts a dishonest thread title while asking others to be honest. hmmm

Exactly, both sides want more war, which obviously causes tons and tons of murder.

So when anyone pulls the "commit murder" tagline in the abortion issue they might as well just say "Hello everyone, I'm a hypocrite."

 

[Cecilie1200]

If one's position is defensible, shouldn't you be able to defend it with logical, cogent, well-thought-out arguments? Shouldn't you be able to discuss the matter in an honest and intelligent manner?

A blastocyst/foetus/etc is an organism. It is alive and it is genetically human.* These are verifiable, objective, demonstrable scientific facts. It is all a matter of basic biology.

Therefore, the child is be definition a living human organism. We are, therefore, dealing with a human life. To 'abort' a pregnancy is to bring about the end of those physiological and biological processes that identify this human organism as alive- it is to bring about the child's death.

It is therefore a scientific fact that when we speak of abortion, we speak of ending human life. As we are also humans, we are therefore dealing with a case of homicide- homicide is defined as the killing of a human being by another human being.

If your position is defensible- if the ending of this life is a defensible ac- then you should be able to demonstrate why this is justifiable or acceptable without denying the facts of what it is you support. When pretend that we're not dealing with a living human being, you reveal that one or both of the following is true:
-You do not know what it is you advocate; you are guided purely by your emotion and your programming. You should shut your fucking mouth and not speak about things you do not understand

-You know your position is indefensible; you must lie about what it is you advocate because you cannot honestly defend your position






*Yes, I know a foetus can die in utero without the woman's body expelling it [see: stone foetus] and that humans aren't the only species to experience pregnancy. Given the context, such things should go unsaid. Let us exercise a little critical thinking here.

I don't think it's that they consider their real position indefensible. I think it's that it's really hard to say, "I think some lives are unimportant and should be disposable for the convenience of others", and still feel good about yourself as a person.

 

[DiamondDave]

Use the search function. There are many here that believe teaching people how to not get pregnant encourages them to have sex.

And there are many that believe that it is not the function of the state to discuss the personal subject of sex (and sexual practices) and what is ok to minors who are under the responsibility of parent/parents...

And there are, of course, varying stances on the rape/incest/mother's health portion... just as there are varying stances on when an unborn child can/should be terminated on the pro-choice side

Yes, and the irony comes in when those very same people think it is the function of the state to dictate when and if a woman gives birth.

WRONG

Not when a woman gives birth... when the unborn human life with it's own separate DNA signature is terminated by a woman... BIG mf'in difference

As stated SO many times... if this were just a part of the woman's body (her matching DNA signature), knock yourself out... remove an ear.. remove a pancreas.. remove your entire left leg for all I care

Since you tried to equate subject teaching of minors to killing an unborn human life... What the fuck do you think you are teaching the unborn child by carving it up and sucking it's brains out??

 

[Robert]

Murder is Murder whether you like the word or not, what we are talking about is in fact murder. It isn't taking out the trash it isn't throw away yard waste its cold blooded premeditated murder.

I find it sick beyond belief that we have people in the world that view killing a child as something akin to running to McDonalds for a happy meal.

Funny though how its the Left begging for more War and Cheering the whole sale murder of innocent lives. "holier than thou" card for either side..... Indeed

It's always fun to hear people who cheer and beg for more war use the emotional tagline "commit murder."

Moral and rational people can be either pro-life or pro-choice, it's intellectually embarrassing to play the "holier than thou" card for either side.

On another note is there anyone on the planet who's "pro-abortion"? Seems like the OP posts a dishonest thread title while asking others to be honest. hmmm

Exactly, both sides want more war, which obviously causes tons and tons of murder.

So when anyone pulls the "commit murder" tagline in the abortion issue they might as well just say "Hello everyone, I'm a hypocrite."

 

[Cecilie1200]

Now hold on there a sec. Having an abortion is not an easy thing to do. It is no picnic, I guarantee you. I dont have to defend myself when it comes to my body. Wanna call me a murderer? Go ahead. Ive called myself much worse when I had it done many many MANY years ago. Its nobodies business why I had it done and I answer to nobody on why I did it.

Say what you will. Unless you are a woman....you have no clue.

Two things: One, I AM a woman, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume that similarities in our reproductive system automatically mean your thoughts and attitudes are the standard.

Two, if you "don't have to defend yourself", why are you doing it?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Murder is Murder whether you like the word or not, what we are talking about is in fact murder. It isn't taking out the trash it isn't throw away yard waste its cold blooded premeditated murder.

I find it sick beyond belief that we have people in the world that view killing a child as something akin to running to McDonalds for a happy meal.

Funny though how its the Left begging for more War and Cheering the whole sale murder of innocent lives. "holier than thou" card for either side..... Indeed

Exactly, both sides want more war, which obviously causes tons and tons of murder.

So when anyone pulls the "commit murder" tagline in the abortion issue they might as well just say "Hello everyone, I'm a hypocrite."

Keep digging your hole deeper.

I want you to tell me how our military adventures in this century that have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians isn't murder.

And if it is murder, why aren't you posting messages using that same emotional tagline on war-related threads?

 

[Immanuel]

Murder is Murder whether you like the word or not, what we are talking about is in fact murder. It isn't taking out the trash it isn't throw away yard waste its cold blooded premeditated murder.

I find it sick beyond belief that we have people in the world that view killing a child as something akin to running to McDonalds for a happy meal.

Funny though how its the Left begging for more War and Cheering the whole sale murder of innocent lives. "holier than thou" card for either side..... Indeed

Exactly, both sides want more war, which obviously causes tons and tons of murder.

So when anyone pulls the "commit murder" tagline in the abortion issue they might as well just say "Hello everyone, I'm a hypocrite."

Technically it is not murder since murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a human being by a human being.

murder - Dictionary definition and pronunciation - Yahoo! Education

mur·der audio (mûrdr) KEY

NOUN:

1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
2. Slang Something that is very uncomfortable, difficult, or hazardous: The rush hour traffic is murder.
3. A flock of crows. See Synonyms at flock.

As long as our government defends the right to kill children that have not yet journeyed down the birth canal and makes the taking of their lives legal, abortion is not murder as it is lawful.

That does not mean that abortion is somehow acceptable because the government deems it lawful. They also deem political corruption in the terms of accepting bribes from lobbyists to be lawful, that doesn't make it right.

Immie

 

[Robert]

OMG!! So now the Moral equivalent of Murdering an innocent child is the same as going to War LMFAO!! you might want to throw that shovel away. or keep digging LOL!!!

Murder is Murder whether you like the word or not, what we are talking about is in fact murder. It isn't taking out the trash it isn't throw away yard waste its cold blooded premeditated murder.

I find it sick beyond belief that we have people in the world that view killing a child as something akin to running to McDonalds for a happy meal.

Exactly, both sides want more war, which obviously causes tons and tons of murder.

So when anyone pulls the "commit murder" tagline in the abortion issue they might as well just say "Hello everyone, I'm a hypocrite."

Keep digging your hole deeper.

I want you to tell me how our military adventures in this century that have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians isn't murder.

And if it is murder, why aren't you posting messages using that same emotional tagline on war-related threads?

 

[Si modo]

Now hold on there a sec. Having an abortion is not an easy thing to do. It is no picnic, I guarantee you. I dont have to defend myself when it comes to my body. Wanna call me a murderer? Go ahead. Ive called myself much worse when I had it done many many MANY years ago. Its nobodies business why I had it done and I answer to nobody on why I did it.

Say what you will. Unless you are a woman....you have no clue.

Two things: One, I AM a woman, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume that similarities in our reproductive system automatically mean your thoughts and attitudes are the standard.

Two, if you "don't have to defend yourself", why are you doing it?

She's not.

Why is reading comprehension a challenge for you? (Don't you love having the same sort of question you ask given back to you?)

 

[NYcarbineer]

Really? You're gonna declare victory, rdean? You can't even be bothered to lay out the argument you claim you have

I draw the line at birth because IMO that makes the most sense, all things considered.

I can't help it if that's too hard for you to comprehend.

So there's no reasoning involved at all? It's just what you've been programmed to say or what?

What changes between the time when the last toe is in and when the last toe is out?

If there is no difference between a human fetus, a human embryo, a human fertilized egg, and a born Person,

then hiring someone to perform an abortion on you is materially no different than hiring someone to kill your child, or your spouse, or your boss, or the guy who owes you money, etc., etc., etc.

Are you prepared to defend that position, and all the implications it has for the law assuming YOUR logic were used to establish the criminality of abortion?

 

[NYcarbineer]

No one has a 'Pro Choice' to commit murder...period

I would really like to see some proof of these supposed people stopping Sex Ed or for that matter people or policy's stopping a women from terminating a child from rape or incest.

Women have been ridding their bodies of unwanted pregnancies since the beginning of time and making abortion illegal or difficult to obtain isn't going to change that. The ONLY way to combat abortion is through sex education. The same people that would not want a woman to rid herself of a rapists baby also don't want to see comprehensive sex education in schools.

Also, there is no such thing as "pro abortion". That's ludicrous. Most that are PRO CHOICE want to keep abortion safe, legal and RARE, period.

Should abortion earn the death penalty for the perpetrator?

 

[manifold]

Really? You're gonna declare victory, rdean? You can't even be bothered to lay out the argument you claim you have

I draw the line at birth because IMO that makes the most sense, all things considered.

I can't help it if that's too hard for you to comprehend.

So there's no reasoning involved at all? It's just what you've been programmed to say or what?

What changes between the time when the last toe is in and when the last toe is out?

I've given you my reasoning which you've repeatedly ignored. I've even reworded it, expanded upon it, and simplfied it, all to try to help you out. I'm not sure how else I can say that IMO, the cost of protecting unborn and unwanted human life is not worth the benefit, especially since I don't see any real tangible benefit to society to begin with. The benefit to a civil society of protecting the birthed on the other hand, is so great that it's impossible to even have a society without some measure of protection. You have repeatedly argued that it's 'dishonest' to separate the born from the unborn in one's reasoning on the subject and on that I completely disagree. In fact IMO, insisting that there is no difference, as you have now on multiple occasions, is dishonest.

I've provided you with an honest position that you happen to disagree with. It happens. If you had any integrity at all, you'd acknowledge that your challenge to present an honest defense of the pro-choice position has been met. You don't have to agree with it, but the argument requires no dishonesty, which is what you initially implied could not be done.

 

[manifold]

I draw the line at birth because IMO that makes the most sense, all things considered.

I can't help it if that's too hard for you to comprehend.

So there's no reasoning involved at all? It's just what you've been programmed to say or what?

What changes between the time when the last toe is in and when the last toe is out?

If there is no difference between a human fetus, a human embryo, a human fertilized egg, and a born Person,

then hiring someone to perform an abortion on you is materially no different than hiring someone to kill your child, or your spouse, or your boss, or the guy who owes you money, etc., etc., etc.

Are you prepared to defend that position, and all the implications it has for the law assuming YOUR logic were used to establish the criminality of abortion?

The practical implications of his acadmeic positions is JB's kryptonite.

 

[Robert]

No one has a 'Pro Choice' to commit murder...period

I would really like to see some proof of these supposed people stopping Sex Ed or for that matter people or policy's stopping a women from terminating a child from rape or incest.

Women have been ridding their bodies of unwanted pregnancies since the beginning of time and making abortion illegal or difficult to obtain isn't going to change that. The ONLY way to combat abortion is through sex education. The same people that would not want a woman to rid herself of a rapists baby also don't want to see comprehensive sex education in schools.

Also, there is no such thing as "pro abortion". That's ludicrous. Most that are PRO CHOICE want to keep abortion safe, legal and RARE, period.

Should abortion earn the death penalty for the perpetrator?

Isn't it a death Penalty for the Child done with no due process? for no other reason than the child isn't wanted. How sad we can create a life and at a whim murder the life with no more thought then I don't want it.

 

[Gadawg73]

Now hold on there a sec. Having an abortion is not an easy thing to do. It is no picnic, I guarantee you. I dont have to defend myself when it comes to my body. Wanna call me a murderer? Go ahead. Ive called myself much worse when I had it done many many MANY years ago. Its nobodies business why I had it done and I answer to nobody on why I did it.

Say what you will. Unless you are a woman....you have no clue.

Wrong. All people have a right to have an opinion about the ending prematurely of a human life. I will grant that currently it is totally legal to do so. But that does not change the basic facts. A human life was ended prematurely by design of another Human.

I and others find that unacceptable and believe it should not be legal to simply kill another human because it may be inconvenient to the mother of the child. Technically it is not homicide since that definition includes that the act is illegal. It is murder though. Just legal murder.

Who decides what the definition of "convenient" is in each and every case where a woman decides to have an abortion?
You? Government? A Doctor? The local police? The local preacher?
SCARY SHIT there. NO conservative stands for that.
And who makes the definition that it is "murder" when you, I and NO ONE knows what the facts and circumstances are in each and every case?
How can anyone be so arrogant as to claim they, and they alone "know"?

 

[Anguille]

Why is killing an unborn child okay if the mother was raped but not if she was just stupid?

How does your parents' relationship determine whether it's okay to kill you? You never presented any cogent arguments to make that case.

So....lemmie get this straight.........

You think that if a woman is raped, she must carry the memory of the horror around inside her, moving, and reminding her every day of what happened? Then.......send the kid up for adoption?

You really are a soul less bastard.

Why should a child be sucked out by a vacuum because its father is a criminal?

You really are a soulless bastard

The only so-called pro lifers that are honest and true to their convictions are those who think the way you do. If it's life, it's life no matter the circumstances of it's origin.

 

[Dr.Drock]

OMG!! So now the Moral equivalent of Murdering an innocent child is the same as going to War LMFAO!! you might want to throw that shovel away. or keep digging LOL!!!

Murder is Murder whether you like the word or not, what we are talking about is in fact murder. It isn't taking out the trash it isn't throw away yard waste its cold blooded premeditated murder.

I find it sick beyond belief that we have people in the world that view killing a child as something akin to running to McDonalds for a happy meal.

Keep digging your hole deeper.

I want you to tell me how our military adventures in this century that have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians isn't murder.

And if it is murder, why aren't you posting messages using that same emotional tagline on war-related threads?

No, I don't view abortion as murdering an innocent child you do.

So using your logic, what's the difference between murdering an innocent child by dropping a bomb on their head and murdering a child through abortion?

If you're pro-life then you're anti-war, if you're not anti-war than all you are is trying to force your religious views into law. Has absolutely nothing to do with the fetus/baby.

 

[NYcarbineer]

No one has a 'Pro Choice' to commit murder...period

I would really like to see some proof of these supposed people stopping Sex Ed or for that matter people or policy's stopping a women from terminating a child from rape or incest.

Should abortion earn the death penalty for the perpetrator?

Isn't it a death Penalty for the Child done with no due process? for no other reason than the child isn't wanted. How sad we can create a life and at a whim murder the life with no more thought then I don't want it.

Is that a yes or a no or an I don't have the courage to answer the question?