Why cruz will likely win a contested convention

[Avatar4321]

I know anti Cruz people like to pretend that he uses dirty tactics. But the fact is he doesn't. And it seems completely illogical to object to dirty tactics and sign on to trump

 

[Dr.Traveler]

The establishment hates Cruz as much as they hate Trump.

They do, but as the article points out a lot of the power in the convention will be held by delegates that Cruz's campaign has selected by reading the rules and outplaying everyone. One of the interesting consequences is that Rule 40, a rule limiting who can be the nominee, likely wouldn't be tossed out as expected earlier. Cruz's delegates will likely ensure Rule 40 stays in place leaving him the only alternative to Trump.

As I said, this is really impressive work by Cruz.

And the right says Obamacare has too many rules and guidelines....

It sorta scares me, Ted Cruz probably has his dirty tricks planned up to the end.

.

In my experience, people that complain about the rules are the ones on the losing end of the argument.

And, as pertains to this topic, who would you rather have as President of the United States: Someone that tries to ignore/complain about/belittle the rules because they think they should get what they want, or someone that takes the time to understand and follow the rules? Before you answer, remember part of the oath is to uphold the Constitution. If a person thinks they're above the rules in the primary, it doesn't give me a lot of faith they'll follow the rules once they're in office.

 

[Eaglewings]

The establishment hates Cruz as much as they hate Trump.

They do, but as the article points out a lot of the power in the convention will be held by delegates that Cruz's campaign has selected by reading the rules and outplaying everyone. One of the interesting consequences is that Rule 40, a rule limiting who can be the nominee, likely wouldn't be tossed out as expected earlier. Cruz's delegates will likely ensure Rule 40 stays in place leaving him the only alternative to Trump.

As I said, this is really impressive work by Cruz.

And the right says Obamacare has too many rules and guidelines....

It sorta scares me, Ted Cruz probably has his dirty tricks planned up to the end.

.

In my experience, people that complain about the rules are the ones on the losing end of the argument.

And, as pertains to this topic, who would you rather have as President of the United States: Someone that tries to ignore/complain about/belittle the rules because they think they should get what they want, or someone that takes the time to understand and follow the rules? Before you answer, remember part of the oath is to uphold the Constitution. If a person thinks they're above the rules in the primary, it doesn't give me a lot of faith they'll follow the rules once they're in office.

We already know the answer... there is a green eggs and ham ego that knows how to manipulate the law even though it may be legal , but his heart shows that he doesn't care who it hurts even a kind running mate that was honest and sincere.

I don't see anyone else pushing the limits to almost illegal like Ted Cruz does.

.

 

[Lilah]

I know anti Cruz people like to pretend that he uses dirty tactics. But the fact is he doesn't. And it seems completely illogical to object to dirty tactics and sign on to trump

Ted Cruz Apologizes To Ben Carson For Telling Supporters ...

 

[Dr.Traveler]

The establishment hates Cruz as much as they hate Trump.

They do, but as the article points out a lot of the power in the convention will be held by delegates that Cruz's campaign has selected by reading the rules and outplaying everyone. One of the interesting consequences is that Rule 40, a rule limiting who can be the nominee, likely wouldn't be tossed out as expected earlier. Cruz's delegates will likely ensure Rule 40 stays in place leaving him the only alternative to Trump.

As I said, this is really impressive work by Cruz.

And the right says Obamacare has too many rules and guidelines....

It sorta scares me, Ted Cruz probably has his dirty tricks planned up to the end.

.

In my experience, people that complain about the rules are the ones on the losing end of the argument.

And, as pertains to this topic, who would you rather have as President of the United States: Someone that tries to ignore/complain about/belittle the rules because they think they should get what they want, or someone that takes the time to understand and follow the rules? Before you answer, remember part of the oath is to uphold the Constitution. If a person thinks they're above the rules in the primary, it doesn't give me a lot of faith they'll follow the rules once they're in office.

We already know the answer... there is a green eggs and ham ego that knows how to manipulate the law even though it may be legal , but his heart shows that he doesn't care who it hurts even a kind running mate that was honest and sincere.

I don't see anyone else pushing the limits to almost illegal like Ted Cruz does.

.

But we do see Trump, and his supporters, arguing the rules don't matter or should be tossed out.

For example, this very topic. Trump and his supporters are arguing that a plurality should be enough when the rules clearly state he will need a majority to secure his nomination. Instead of putting in the legwork to secure that majority via negotiation, Trump is trying to argue it's a stupid rule.

Well tough. When he decided to run for the GOP nomination, those were the rules. They haven't changed since the primary started. If he didn't like those rules, he should have geared up for a third party run or created his own party.

This, by the way, is not a minor rules point either. Should Trump become President he constitutionally will have limits on what he can do. If he wants to enact any meaningful legislation he will have to learn how to build coalitions and secure a majority of lawmakers in both branches of Congress. If he can't close the deal in Cleveland, I don't see how he could accomplish anything meaningful once he gets to Washington.

 

[Eaglewings]

The establishment hates Cruz as much as they hate Trump.

They do, but as the article points out a lot of the power in the convention will be held by delegates that Cruz's campaign has selected by reading the rules and outplaying everyone. One of the interesting consequences is that Rule 40, a rule limiting who can be the nominee, likely wouldn't be tossed out as expected earlier. Cruz's delegates will likely ensure Rule 40 stays in place leaving him the only alternative to Trump.

As I said, this is really impressive work by Cruz.

And the right says Obamacare has too many rules and guidelines....

It sorta scares me, Ted Cruz probably has his dirty tricks planned up to the end.

.

In my experience, people that complain about the rules are the ones on the losing end of the argument.

And, as pertains to this topic, who would you rather have as President of the United States: Someone that tries to ignore/complain about/belittle the rules because they think they should get what they want, or someone that takes the time to understand and follow the rules? Before you answer, remember part of the oath is to uphold the Constitution. If a person thinks they're above the rules in the primary, it doesn't give me a lot of faith they'll follow the rules once they're in office.

We already know the answer... there is a green eggs and ham ego that knows how to manipulate the law even though it may be legal , but his heart shows that he doesn't care who it hurts even a kind running mate that was honest and sincere.

I don't see anyone else pushing the limits to almost illegal like Ted Cruz does.

.

But we do see Trump, and his supporters, arguing the rules don't matter or should be tossed out.

For example, this very topic. Trump and his supporters are arguing that a plurality should be enough when the rules clearly state he will need a majority to secure his nomination. Instead of putting in the legwork to secure that majority via negotiation, Trump is trying to argue it's a stupid rule.

Well tough. When he decided to run for the GOP nomination, those were the rules. They haven't changed since the primary started. If he didn't like those rules, he should have geared up for a third party run or created his own party.

This, by the way, is not a minor rules point either. Should Trump become President he constitutionally will have limits on what he can do. If he wants to enact any meaningful legislation he will have to learn how to build coalitions and secure a majority of lawmakers in both branches of Congress. If he can't close the deal in Cleveland, I don't see how he could accomplish anything meaningful once he gets to Washington.

Well said!


.

 

[Lilah]

The establishment hates Cruz as much as they hate Trump.

They do, but as the article points out a lot of the power in the convention will be held by delegates that Cruz's campaign has selected by reading the rules and outplaying everyone. One of the interesting consequences is that Rule 40, a rule limiting who can be the nominee, likely wouldn't be tossed out as expected earlier. Cruz's delegates will likely ensure Rule 40 stays in place leaving him the only alternative to Trump.

As I said, this is really impressive work by Cruz.

And the right says Obamacare has too many rules and guidelines....

It sorta scares me, Ted Cruz probably has his dirty tricks planned up to the end.

.

In my experience, people that complain about the rules are the ones on the losing end of the argument.

And, as pertains to this topic, who would you rather have as President of the United States: Someone that tries to ignore/complain about/belittle the rules because they think they should get what they want, or someone that takes the time to understand and follow the rules? Before you answer, remember part of the oath is to uphold the Constitution. If a person thinks they're above the rules in the primary, it doesn't give me a lot of faith they'll follow the rules once they're in office.

We already know the answer... there is a green eggs and ham ego that knows how to manipulate the law even though it may be legal , but his heart shows that he doesn't care who it hurts even a kind running mate that was honest and sincere.

I don't see anyone else pushing the limits to almost illegal like Ted Cruz does.

.

But we do see Trump, and his supporters, arguing the rules don't matter or should be tossed out.

For example, this very topic. Trump and his supporters are arguing that a plurality should be enough when the rules clearly state he will need a majority to secure his nomination. Instead of putting in the legwork to secure that majority via negotiation, Trump is trying to argue it's a stupid rule.

Well tough. When he decided to run for the GOP nomination, those were the rules. They haven't changed since the primary started. If he didn't like those rules, he should have geared up for a third party run or created his own party.

This, by the way, is not a minor rules point either. Should Trump become President he constitutionally will have limits on what he can do. If he wants to enact any meaningful legislation he will have to learn how to build coalitions and secure a majority of lawmakers in both branches of Congress. If he can't close the deal in Cleveland, I don't see how he could accomplish anything meaningful once he gets to Washington.

The Republican rules are subject to change, and it now appears that Rule 40 doesn't matter. Why shouldn't Trump be suspicious.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

They do, but as the article points out a lot of the power in the convention will be held by delegates that Cruz's campaign has selected by reading the rules and outplaying everyone. One of the interesting consequences is that Rule 40, a rule limiting who can be the nominee, likely wouldn't be tossed out as expected earlier. Cruz's delegates will likely ensure Rule 40 stays in place leaving him the only alternative to Trump.

As I said, this is really impressive work by Cruz.

And the right says Obamacare has too many rules and guidelines....

It sorta scares me, Ted Cruz probably has his dirty tricks planned up to the end.

.

In my experience, people that complain about the rules are the ones on the losing end of the argument.

And, as pertains to this topic, who would you rather have as President of the United States: Someone that tries to ignore/complain about/belittle the rules because they think they should get what they want, or someone that takes the time to understand and follow the rules? Before you answer, remember part of the oath is to uphold the Constitution. If a person thinks they're above the rules in the primary, it doesn't give me a lot of faith they'll follow the rules once they're in office.

We already know the answer... there is a green eggs and ham ego that knows how to manipulate the law even though it may be legal , but his heart shows that he doesn't care who it hurts even a kind running mate that was honest and sincere.

I don't see anyone else pushing the limits to almost illegal like Ted Cruz does.

.

But we do see Trump, and his supporters, arguing the rules don't matter or should be tossed out.

For example, this very topic. Trump and his supporters are arguing that a plurality should be enough when the rules clearly state he will need a majority to secure his nomination. Instead of putting in the legwork to secure that majority via negotiation, Trump is trying to argue it's a stupid rule.

Well tough. When he decided to run for the GOP nomination, those were the rules. They haven't changed since the primary started. If he didn't like those rules, he should have geared up for a third party run or created his own party.

This, by the way, is not a minor rules point either. Should Trump become President he constitutionally will have limits on what he can do. If he wants to enact any meaningful legislation he will have to learn how to build coalitions and secure a majority of lawmakers in both branches of Congress. If he can't close the deal in Cleveland, I don't see how he could accomplish anything meaningful once he gets to Washington.

The Republican rules are subject to change, and it now appears that Rule 40 doesn't matter. Why shouldn't Trump be suspicious.

Good point. Two rebuttals:

1. Trump can essentially pre-empt this all by getting to a majority of delegates prior to Cleveland. True, it is possible to change the rules, decertify, etc, and stop him. But if he's secured the number of delegates required to win before the first ballot, I don't see him being denied.

2. If they do start changing the rules specifically to block Trump, then I think he has a complaint that he is being treated unfairly. I'd still put forward that the GOP is playing by the rules they established and that Trump is being screwed over by rules he agreed to by running. However, taking this step would expose just how corrupt the political structure is. It would be the end of the GOP as a serious national party.

However, I don't expect the GOP to change rules to block Trump. It's pretty likely he won't have the majority of delegates secured by Cleveland, meaning this goes to multiple ballots. Cruz has done the legwork necessary to make sure he wins in that scenario. It'll be tough for Trump to out play Cruz at this point, or for the GOP itself to do so. Cruz will win this by being the only candidate to have worked ahead, study the rules, and plan out his actions strategically. I wasn't planning on voting for Cruz but I have to admit, seeing this play out I am seriously impressed.

 

[rightwinger]

Cruz could take a contested convention but if he did, his legitimacy would be contested
He would not be looked at by the public as the legitimate Republican candidate

Trump still has large leads in NY and California which would ensure he has about 47% by the convention. Cruz will be lucky to break 30%.

If the Republican powers take the nomination from Trump and hand it to an undeserving Cruz the backlash among Republican voters would be severe

 

[Lilah]

And the right says Obamacare has too many rules and guidelines....

It sorta scares me, Ted Cruz probably has his dirty tricks planned up to the end.

.

In my experience, people that complain about the rules are the ones on the losing end of the argument.

And, as pertains to this topic, who would you rather have as President of the United States: Someone that tries to ignore/complain about/belittle the rules because they think they should get what they want, or someone that takes the time to understand and follow the rules? Before you answer, remember part of the oath is to uphold the Constitution. If a person thinks they're above the rules in the primary, it doesn't give me a lot of faith they'll follow the rules once they're in office.

We already know the answer... there is a green eggs and ham ego that knows how to manipulate the law even though it may be legal , but his heart shows that he doesn't care who it hurts even a kind running mate that was honest and sincere.

I don't see anyone else pushing the limits to almost illegal like Ted Cruz does.

.

But we do see Trump, and his supporters, arguing the rules don't matter or should be tossed out.

For example, this very topic. Trump and his supporters are arguing that a plurality should be enough when the rules clearly state he will need a majority to secure his nomination. Instead of putting in the legwork to secure that majority via negotiation, Trump is trying to argue it's a stupid rule.

Well tough. When he decided to run for the GOP nomination, those were the rules. They haven't changed since the primary started. If he didn't like those rules, he should have geared up for a third party run or created his own party.

This, by the way, is not a minor rules point either. Should Trump become President he constitutionally will have limits on what he can do. If he wants to enact any meaningful legislation he will have to learn how to build coalitions and secure a majority of lawmakers in both branches of Congress. If he can't close the deal in Cleveland, I don't see how he could accomplish anything meaningful once he gets to Washington.

The Republican rules are subject to change, and it now appears that Rule 40 doesn't matter. Why shouldn't Trump be suspicious.

Good point. Two rebuttals:

1. Trump can essentially pre-empt this all by getting to a majority of delegates prior to Cleveland. True, it is possible to change the rules, decertify, etc, and stop him. But if he's secured the number of delegates required to win before the first ballot, I don't see him being denied.

2. If they do start changing the rules specifically to block Trump, then I think he has a complaint that he is being treated unfairly. I'd still put forward that the GOP is playing by the rules they established and that Trump is being screwed over by rules he agreed to by running. However, taking this step would expose just how corrupt the political structure is. It would be the end of the GOP as a serious national party.

However, I don't expect the GOP to change rules to block Trump. It's pretty likely he won't have the majority of delegates secured by Cleveland, meaning this goes to multiple ballots. Cruz has done the legwork necessary to make sure he wins in that scenario. It'll be tough for Trump to out play Cruz at this point, or for the GOP itself to do so. Cruz will win this by being the only candidate to have worked ahead, study the rules, and plan out his actions strategically. I wasn't planning on voting for Cruz but I have to admit, seeing this play out I am seriously impressed.

IF Cruz wins, it will be because the delegates have been SWAYED to vote for him in order to stop Trump. The delegates will vote according to their views, and of course, according to what has been given to them. Don't be so naive as to think the delegates are magnanimous people.

 

[amrchaos]

The establishment hates Cruz as much as they hate Trump.

Yes they do. But Cruz is bringing them to him on his terms. Trump is driving them away.

I have to wonder if Trump wasn't in the Race if Cruz would be able to unite the base as well

I think so. It is mostly the elected politicians that has issues with Cruz.

 

[amrchaos]

By the way

Who is in charge of changing the rules?

If it is the chosen delegates, then Cruz is going to win!!

 

[imawhosure]

I know anti Cruz people like to pretend that he uses dirty tactics. But the fact is he doesn't. And it seems completely illogical to object to dirty tactics and sign on to trump

Trump thought he was smart, but he screwed himself by not hiring someone who knew the ins, and the outs of primary rules, and politics. Now is that Ted Cruz fault? No! It is the mighty Donalds fault.

I am more than ever convinced, it is going to a contested convention. But, but, but, I thought Donald was going to take New York, California, and Penn; says Donald supporters.

Now you see, that just shows how uninformed Donald supporters are about the process. Of course he is going to take New York, he lives there, big deal! Ted Cruz took Texas too, so Donald taking New York is no surprise. He lives in Florida also, so no surprise there either.

But what Donald supporters better start figuring out is-----------> makes no difference if they stay home if their guy doesn't win. We will just start calling them the 2nd coming of Ron Paul supporters, and in fact some of them probably belong to this movement also.

No, they better start paying attention to not only CONVENTION rules that aren't going to change, but also STATE rules that is going to screw them because they are in force. Don't be surprised when your guy doesn't get the magic number, in other words.

Have ANY of you Trumpsters looked up California's rules? Bet you haven't, lol. Have you even glanced at Penns rules? No? Well let me help you a little!





Now here is YOUR problem-------------> Look at the delegates who are not bound. Cruz people know who will vote Cruz, think Trump knows who will vote Trump! This is why Trump is NOT going to reach the magic number. Trump and his supporters have been so busy on websites like this or on Twitter singing his praises, NOBODY did any legwork to figure out how to close the deal because.......well......they were to busy singing praises. Cruz did!

If your guy doesn't break the magic number, (and he won't) you can threaten to stay home, run 3rd party, spit into the wind, or poop in the street, he will STILL not get the nomination.

Better start boning up on state and convention rules, take a few months off of work, and help the campaign insure they break that number. Or, conversely; you can come here and threaten, whine, cry, bitch, and moan, which will do you absolutely no good, but you already knew that. If we don't see you around, we know where you are, if we do, then you really don't care, now do you!

 

[Avatar4321]

I know anti Cruz people like to pretend that he uses dirty tactics. But the fact is he doesn't. And it seems completely illogical to object to dirty tactics and sign on to trump

Ted Cruz Apologizes To Ben Carson For Telling Supporters ...

Thank you for proving my point

 

[Lilah]

I know anti Cruz people like to pretend that he uses dirty tactics. But the fact is he doesn't. And it seems completely illogical to object to dirty tactics and sign on to trump

Ted Cruz Apologizes To Ben Carson For Telling Supporters ...

Thank you for proving my point

Seems that I disproved your point.

 

[Avatar4321]

They do, but as the article points out a lot of the power in the convention will be held by delegates that Cruz's campaign has selected by reading the rules and outplaying everyone. One of the interesting consequences is that Rule 40, a rule limiting who can be the nominee, likely wouldn't be tossed out as expected earlier. Cruz's delegates will likely ensure Rule 40 stays in place leaving him the only alternative to Trump.

As I said, this is really impressive work by Cruz.

And the right says Obamacare has too many rules and guidelines....

It sorta scares me, Ted Cruz probably has his dirty tricks planned up to the end.

.

In my experience, people that complain about the rules are the ones on the losing end of the argument.

And, as pertains to this topic, who would you rather have as President of the United States: Someone that tries to ignore/complain about/belittle the rules because they think they should get what they want, or someone that takes the time to understand and follow the rules? Before you answer, remember part of the oath is to uphold the Constitution. If a person thinks they're above the rules in the primary, it doesn't give me a lot of faith they'll follow the rules once they're in office.

We already know the answer... there is a green eggs and ham ego that knows how to manipulate the law even though it may be legal , but his heart shows that he doesn't care who it hurts even a kind running mate that was honest and sincere.

I don't see anyone else pushing the limits to almost illegal like Ted Cruz does.

.

But we do see Trump, and his supporters, arguing the rules don't matter or should be tossed out.

For example, this very topic. Trump and his supporters are arguing that a plurality should be enough when the rules clearly state he will need a majority to secure his nomination. Instead of putting in the legwork to secure that majority via negotiation, Trump is trying to argue it's a stupid rule.

Well tough. When he decided to run for the GOP nomination, those were the rules. They haven't changed since the primary started. If he didn't like those rules, he should have geared up for a third party run or created his own party.

This, by the way, is not a minor rules point either. Should Trump become President he constitutionally will have limits on what he can do. If he wants to enact any meaningful legislation he will have to learn how to build coalitions and secure a majority of lawmakers in both branches of Congress. If he can't close the deal in Cleveland, I don't see how he could accomplish anything meaningful once he gets to Washington.

The Republican rules are subject to change, and it now appears that Rule 40 doesn't matter. Why shouldn't Trump be suspicious.

Only if the delegates change the rules. And most of them will be in trump and Cruz camp. So why would they?

 

[Lilah]

And the right says Obamacare has too many rules and guidelines....

It sorta scares me, Ted Cruz probably has his dirty tricks planned up to the end.

.

In my experience, people that complain about the rules are the ones on the losing end of the argument.

And, as pertains to this topic, who would you rather have as President of the United States: Someone that tries to ignore/complain about/belittle the rules because they think they should get what they want, or someone that takes the time to understand and follow the rules? Before you answer, remember part of the oath is to uphold the Constitution. If a person thinks they're above the rules in the primary, it doesn't give me a lot of faith they'll follow the rules once they're in office.

We already know the answer... there is a green eggs and ham ego that knows how to manipulate the law even though it may be legal , but his heart shows that he doesn't care who it hurts even a kind running mate that was honest and sincere.

I don't see anyone else pushing the limits to almost illegal like Ted Cruz does.

.

But we do see Trump, and his supporters, arguing the rules don't matter or should be tossed out.

For example, this very topic. Trump and his supporters are arguing that a plurality should be enough when the rules clearly state he will need a majority to secure his nomination. Instead of putting in the legwork to secure that majority via negotiation, Trump is trying to argue it's a stupid rule.

Well tough. When he decided to run for the GOP nomination, those were the rules. They haven't changed since the primary started. If he didn't like those rules, he should have geared up for a third party run or created his own party.

This, by the way, is not a minor rules point either. Should Trump become President he constitutionally will have limits on what he can do. If he wants to enact any meaningful legislation he will have to learn how to build coalitions and secure a majority of lawmakers in both branches of Congress. If he can't close the deal in Cleveland, I don't see how he could accomplish anything meaningful once he gets to Washington.

The Republican rules are subject to change, and it now appears that Rule 40 doesn't matter. Why shouldn't Trump be suspicious.

Only if the delegates change the rules. And most of them will be in trump and Cruz camp. So why would they?

You are confused. The 112 members of the Rules Committee can change the rules, not the delegates.

 

[SuperDemocrat]

The left thinks that they are going to win by getting rid of Trump but fail to realize that if Cruz gets the nomination he will enter a race where he has not been tarnished at all. Who would that benefit? Cruz vs Hillary where Cruz has been praised by the left as the anti-trump canidate.

 

[Siete]

Trump falls about 50 delegates short

Cruz winds up with about 800 Total

both are to stubborn to give the other their delegates

rules are changed due to the stalemate

Kasich gets the noination


write that down.

 

[rightwinger]

The left thinks that they are going to win by getting rid of Trump but fail to realize that if Cruz gets the nomination he will enter a race where he has not been tarnished at all. Who would that benefit? Cruz vs Hillary where Cruz has been praised by the left as the anti-trump canidate.

Hillary will easily beat either one of them

Now if you had only chosen Kasich