Why Did You Leave Christianity Behind?

[ding]

I don't hate religious people. They are just usually super annoying peeps!

Sure. Some of them bug the hell out of me too.

 

[fncceo]

I was never a Xtian.

 

[Vastator]

Look friend, societies existed long before the "invention" of Christianity. Think on that.

Sure they, did and they provide an excellent comparative tool proving that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes.

And I never claimed they did. You are the one claiming (albeit in a kind of subtle way) that Christianity is to be praised for everything that is right and just in the world. No one else has made these types of claims, yet I suppose the religious folks would say that WE are the arrogant ones.

No. I don't believe I did claim that. In fact let me state that not everything that Christians have done has been good. What I am saying is that one must weight the good and bad and that by any objective measure the good has out weighed the bad as evidenced by the outcomes of our society.

You have absolutely no conceivable way of objectively measuring your claim. That post was truly nonsense. No offense. But it was.

Sure I do. Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Christianity created wonderful charities and organizations. Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Christianity has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity. Christianity has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility. Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave. Christianity teaches that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe. Christianity helps us feel connected to one another and to nature. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit. Christianity serves to bind the community together. Christianity inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity serves to create traditions. Christianity brings order to our lives. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill. Christianity has served as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christians founded America. Christians gave us incredible artwork. Christians gave us incredible music. Christians gave us incredible architecture. Christianity has spread democracy and freedom. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression. Christians rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon. Christians ended the cold war.

While those cherry pick selections sound wonderful; that's not an objective measure. A measure would require numbers. Specifically comparing numbers, between a number of things, in an objective manner. Not rose colored glasses.

 

[ding]

Sure they, did and they provide an excellent comparative tool proving that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes.

And I never claimed they did. You are the one claiming (albeit in a kind of subtle way) that Christianity is to be praised for everything that is right and just in the world. No one else has made these types of claims, yet I suppose the religious folks would say that WE are the arrogant ones.

No. I don't believe I did claim that. In fact let me state that not everything that Christians have done has been good. What I am saying is that one must weight the good and bad and that by any objective measure the good has out weighed the bad as evidenced by the outcomes of our society.

You have absolutely no conceivable way of objectively measuring your claim. That post was truly nonsense. No offense. But it was.

Sure I do. Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Christianity created wonderful charities and organizations. Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Christianity has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity. Christianity has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility. Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave. Christianity teaches that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe. Christianity helps us feel connected to one another and to nature. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit. Christianity serves to bind the community together. Christianity inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity serves to create traditions. Christianity brings order to our lives. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill. Christianity has served as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christians founded America. Christians gave us incredible artwork. Christians gave us incredible music. Christians gave us incredible architecture. Christianity has spread democracy and freedom. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression. Christians rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon. Christians ended the cold war.

Holy SHIT man --- two words: "paragraph breaks". Nobody's gonna read the world's longest run-on sentence. Damn.

>> Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Christianity created wonderful charities and organizations. Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Christianity has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. <<​

Religions in general do that. For that matter nonreligious charitable organizations in general do that. Nothing in the above is specific to Xianity.

>> Christianity has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. <<​

That ain't the job of any government anyway. That's a moral code. And again, nothing to do specifically with Xianity.

>> Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market <<​

Doooooon't think so dood. Liberalism did that.

That's enough mirth and merriment for now. I need air.

That wasn't a run on sentence. That was a run on paragraph. Where do you suggest I put the breaks at the next time I post that?

 

[ding]

Sure they, did and they provide an excellent comparative tool proving that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes.

And I never claimed they did. You are the one claiming (albeit in a kind of subtle way) that Christianity is to be praised for everything that is right and just in the world. No one else has made these types of claims, yet I suppose the religious folks would say that WE are the arrogant ones.

No. I don't believe I did claim that. In fact let me state that not everything that Christians have done has been good. What I am saying is that one must weight the good and bad and that by any objective measure the good has out weighed the bad as evidenced by the outcomes of our society.

You have absolutely no conceivable way of objectively measuring your claim. That post was truly nonsense. No offense. But it was.

Sure I do. Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Christianity created wonderful charities and organizations. Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Christianity has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity. Christianity has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility. Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave. Christianity teaches that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe. Christianity helps us feel connected to one another and to nature. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit. Christianity serves to bind the community together. Christianity inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity serves to create traditions. Christianity brings order to our lives. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill. Christianity has served as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christians founded America. Christians gave us incredible artwork. Christians gave us incredible music. Christians gave us incredible architecture. Christianity has spread democracy and freedom. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression. Christians rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon. Christians ended the cold war.

While those cherry pick selections sound wonderful; that's not an objective measure. A measure would require numbers. Specifically comparing numbers, between a number of things, in an objective manner. Not rose colored glasses.

Actually it was the cause in cause and effect with some effects thrown in. Most people accept by inspection that Western Civilization has been a force for good and that it was built upon Christian values. It is kind of self evident.

 

[Vastator]

So, that would bring me to the question of what about all the people before "Christianity" existed? What about the followers of the ancient Roman gods or the ancient Greek gods, etc? Were they all killers and/or people who did bad things?

What about people from BC who had no beliefs in gods?

The fact of the matter is that Christianity, like Judaism before it, raised the standard of conduct and behavior above that of their contemporaries. Again, not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success and faile behaviors naturally lead to failure. Despite your beliefs, by an objective measure, Christianity has been a force for good. The proof is in the pudding.

You keep using the term " objective measure"; yet you don't actually use any objective measures. I hope your beliefs are founded on something other than these "objective measures" you keep referring to.

 

[ding]

So, that would bring me to the question of what about all the people before "Christianity" existed? What about the followers of the ancient Roman gods or the ancient Greek gods, etc? Were they all killers and/or people who did bad things?

What about people from BC who had no beliefs in gods?

The fact of the matter is that Christianity, like Judaism before it, raised the standard of conduct and behavior above that of their contemporaries. Again, not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success and faile behaviors naturally lead to failure. Despite your beliefs, by an objective measure, Christianity has been a force for good. The proof is in the pudding.

You keep using the term " objective measure"; yet you don't actually use any objective measures. I hope your beliefs are founded on something other than these "objective measures" you keep referring to.

Can you name a Civilization which has done more good for more people than Western Civilization?

 

[ding]

So, that would bring me to the question of what about all the people before "Christianity" existed? What about the followers of the ancient Roman gods or the ancient Greek gods, etc? Were they all killers and/or people who did bad things?

What about people from BC who had no beliefs in gods?

The fact of the matter is that Christianity, like Judaism before it, raised the standard of conduct and behavior above that of their contemporaries. Again, not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success and faile behaviors naturally lead to failure. Despite your beliefs, by an objective measure, Christianity has been a force for good. The proof is in the pudding.

You keep using the term " objective measure"; yet you don't actually use any objective measures. I hope your beliefs are founded on something other than these "objective measures" you keep referring to.

Can you tell me what good the atheistic nations did in the 20th century?

 

[Vastator]

And I never claimed they did. You are the one claiming (albeit in a kind of subtle way) that Christianity is to be praised for everything that is right and just in the world. No one else has made these types of claims, yet I suppose the religious folks would say that WE are the arrogant ones.

No. I don't believe I did claim that. In fact let me state that not everything that Christians have done has been good. What I am saying is that one must weight the good and bad and that by any objective measure the good has out weighed the bad as evidenced by the outcomes of our society.

You have absolutely no conceivable way of objectively measuring your claim. That post was truly nonsense. No offense. But it was.

Sure I do. Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Christianity created wonderful charities and organizations. Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Christianity has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity. Christianity has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility. Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave. Christianity teaches that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe. Christianity helps us feel connected to one another and to nature. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit. Christianity serves to bind the community together. Christianity inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity serves to create traditions. Christianity brings order to our lives. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill. Christianity has served as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christians founded America. Christians gave us incredible artwork. Christians gave us incredible music. Christians gave us incredible architecture. Christianity has spread democracy and freedom. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression. Christians rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon. Christians ended the cold war.

While those cherry pick selections sound wonderful; that's not an objective measure. A measure would require numbers. Specifically comparing numbers, between a number of things, in an objective manner. Not rose colored glasses.

Actually it was the cause in cause and effect with some effects thrown in. Most people accept by inspection that Western Civilization has been a force for good and that it was built upon Christian values. It is kind of self evident.

It's clear that you "accept"... However I don't think you've been given authority to speak for most people. And western civilization was built on the labors of the Europeans. Furthermore many values cherished by Christians are not constructs of Christianity. You'll find many faiths and cultures valued these virtues long before the Hebrew God was even imagined. Not the least of whom were the indigenous Europeans.

 

[ding]

No. I don't believe I did claim that. In fact let me state that not everything that Christians have done has been good. What I am saying is that one must weight the good and bad and that by any objective measure the good has out weighed the bad as evidenced by the outcomes of our society.

You have absolutely no conceivable way of objectively measuring your claim. That post was truly nonsense. No offense. But it was.

Sure I do. Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Christianity created wonderful charities and organizations. Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Christianity has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity. Christianity has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility. Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave. Christianity teaches that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe. Christianity helps us feel connected to one another and to nature. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit. Christianity serves to bind the community together. Christianity inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity serves to create traditions. Christianity brings order to our lives. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill. Christianity has served as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christians founded America. Christians gave us incredible artwork. Christians gave us incredible music. Christians gave us incredible architecture. Christianity has spread democracy and freedom. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression. Christians rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon. Christians ended the cold war.

While those cherry pick selections sound wonderful; that's not an objective measure. A measure would require numbers. Specifically comparing numbers, between a number of things, in an objective manner. Not rose colored glasses.

Actually it was the cause in cause and effect with some effects thrown in. Most people accept by inspection that Western Civilization has been a force for good and that it was built upon Christian values. It is kind of self evident.

It's clear that you "accept"... However I don't think you've been given authority to speak for most people. And western civilization was built on the labors of the Europeans. Furthermore many values cherished by Christians are not constructs of Christianity. You'll find many faiths and cultures valued these virtues long before the Hebrew God was even imagined. Not the least of whom were the indigenous Europeans.

Can you tell me which religions informed the values of Europeans during the formation of Western Civilization?

Can you tell me why you don't include America in Western Civilization?

 

[koshergrl]

.
humanity has striven forward inspite of 4th century christianity and medieval monarchical governance, etc. by the heroics of a few and those but by far and between.

Don't do drugs.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
the contemporaries of 1st century christianity were the Roman legions, the reverse became the outcome that led to 4th century christianity that embraced their adversaries, to engage autocracy and despotism than the intent of the 1st for a free and spiritual society.

 

[ChrisL]

So, that would bring me to the question of what about all the people before "Christianity" existed? What about the followers of the ancient Roman gods or the ancient Greek gods, etc? Were they all killers and/or people who did bad things?

What about people from BC who had no beliefs in gods?

The fact of the matter is that Christianity, like Judaism before it, raised the standard of conduct and behavior above that of their contemporaries. Again, not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success and faile behaviors naturally lead to failure. Despite your beliefs, by an objective measure, Christianity has been a force for good. The proof is in the pudding.

You keep using the term " objective measure"; yet you don't actually use any objective measures. I hope your beliefs are founded on something other than these "objective measures" you keep referring to.

Can you tell me what good the atheistic nations did in the 20th century?

There is no such thing as an "atheistic nation." People are individuals.

 

[Vastator]

So, that would bring me to the question of what about all the people before "Christianity" existed? What about the followers of the ancient Roman gods or the ancient Greek gods, etc? Were they all killers and/or people who did bad things?

What about people from BC who had no beliefs in gods?

The fact of the matter is that Christianity, like Judaism before it, raised the standard of conduct and behavior above that of their contemporaries. Again, not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success and faile behaviors naturally lead to failure. Despite your beliefs, by an objective measure, Christianity has been a force for good. The proof is in the pudding.

You keep using the term " objective measure"; yet you don't actually use any objective measures. I hope your beliefs are founded on something other than these "objective measures" you keep referring to.

Can you name a Civilization which has done more good for more people than Western Civilization?

Okay first of all "done more good" is completely a perspective based conclusion. Impossible to "objectively measure", as you like to say. Secondly you are again about to commit a correlation/causation fallcy with your synonymous use of Christianity, and western civilization.

 

[ding]

So, that would bring me to the question of what about all the people before "Christianity" existed? What about the followers of the ancient Roman gods or the ancient Greek gods, etc? Were they all killers and/or people who did bad things?

What about people from BC who had no beliefs in gods?

The fact of the matter is that Christianity, like Judaism before it, raised the standard of conduct and behavior above that of their contemporaries. Again, not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success and faile behaviors naturally lead to failure. Despite your beliefs, by an objective measure, Christianity has been a force for good. The proof is in the pudding.

You keep using the term " objective measure"; yet you don't actually use any objective measures. I hope your beliefs are founded on something other than these "objective measures" you keep referring to.

Can you tell me what good the atheistic nations did in the 20th century?

There is no such thing as an "atheistic nation." People are individuals.

All communist nations were officially atheistic nations. Every single one. No exceptions.

 

[ding]

So, that would bring me to the question of what about all the people before "Christianity" existed? What about the followers of the ancient Roman gods or the ancient Greek gods, etc? Were they all killers and/or people who did bad things?

What about people from BC who had no beliefs in gods?

The fact of the matter is that Christianity, like Judaism before it, raised the standard of conduct and behavior above that of their contemporaries. Again, not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success and faile behaviors naturally lead to failure. Despite your beliefs, by an objective measure, Christianity has been a force for good. The proof is in the pudding.

You keep using the term " objective measure"; yet you don't actually use any objective measures. I hope your beliefs are founded on something other than these "objective measures" you keep referring to.

Can you name a Civilization which has done more good for more people than Western Civilization?

Okay first of all "done more good" is completely a perspective based conclusion. Impossible to "objectively measure", as you like to say. Secondly you are again about to commit a correlation/causation fallcy with your synonymous use of Christianity, and western civilization.

So in other words you cannot name a Civilization which has done more good for more people than Western Civilization. I can't either.

Yes, Western Civilization was built on the virtues and values of Christianity. Can you name another religion that would have informed their values?

 

[ChrisL]

So, that would bring me to the question of what about all the people before "Christianity" existed? What about the followers of the ancient Roman gods or the ancient Greek gods, etc? Were they all killers and/or people who did bad things?

What about people from BC who had no beliefs in gods?

The fact of the matter is that Christianity, like Judaism before it, raised the standard of conduct and behavior above that of their contemporaries. Again, not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success and faile behaviors naturally lead to failure. Despite your beliefs, by an objective measure, Christianity has been a force for good. The proof is in the pudding.

You keep using the term " objective measure"; yet you don't actually use any objective measures. I hope your beliefs are founded on something other than these "objective measures" you keep referring to.

Can you tell me what good the atheistic nations did in the 20th century?

There is no such thing as an "atheistic nation." People are individuals.

All communist nations were officially atheistic nations. Every single one. No exceptions.

So? Some atheists or people who do not believe in manmade religion might be communists too. That proves nothing.

Christian communism - Wikipedia

Christian communism is a form of religious communism based on Christianity. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ compel Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Although there is no universal agreement on the exact date when Christian communism was founded, many Christian communists assert that evidence from the Bible suggests that the first Christians, including the Apostles, established their own small communist society in the years following Jesus' death and resurrection. As such, many advocates of Christian communism argue that it was taught by Jesus and practiced by the Apostles themselves.

 

[Vastator]

I already told you that I don't believe in evil, and that I believe that there is something good (even if it may be WAY down inside) in everyone.

So what do you call it when a man abducts, rapes, tortures and murders a 6 year old girl?

A person with a diseased brain.

I see. So it really wouldn't be his fault because he has an illness, right?

That depends. Everything is not black or white.

I would say the example I just gave where a man abducts, rapes, tortures and murders a 6 year old girl is black and white. I would say he had no good in him and that is my definition of evil.

That makes him no more, or less "evil" just because you so define him. You seem to "believe" with more conviction than you "know".

 

[ding]

The fact of the matter is that Christianity, like Judaism before it, raised the standard of conduct and behavior above that of their contemporaries. Again, not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success and faile behaviors naturally lead to failure. Despite your beliefs, by an objective measure, Christianity has been a force for good. The proof is in the pudding.

You keep using the term " objective measure"; yet you don't actually use any objective measures. I hope your beliefs are founded on something other than these "objective measures" you keep referring to.

Can you tell me what good the atheistic nations did in the 20th century?

There is no such thing as an "atheistic nation." People are individuals.

All communist nations were officially atheistic nations. Every single one. No exceptions.

So? Some atheists or people who do not believe in manmade religion might be communists too. That proves nothing.

Christian communism - Wikipedia

Christian communism is a form of religious communism based on Christianity. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ compel Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Although there is no universal agreement on the exact date when Christian communism was founded, many Christian communists assert that evidence from the Bible suggests that the first Christians, including the Apostles, established their own small communist society in the years following Jesus' death and resurrection. As such, many advocates of Christian communism argue that it was taught by Jesus and practiced by the Apostles themselves.

Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx

The propaganda of atheism is necessary for our programs. Vladimir Lenin.

According to the University of Cambridge, historically, the "most notable spread of atheism was achieved through the success of the 1917 Russian Revolution, which brought the Marxist-Leninists to power."

Marxism - Investigating Atheism

Vladimir Lenin explains it thusly: "A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could."

Lenin: The Attitude of the Workers' Party to Religion

In 1955, Chinese communist leader Zhou Enlai declared, "We Communists are atheists"

Noebel, David, The Battle for Truth, Harvest House, 2001.

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism, Thursday, 20 November 2014

"The Communist Party of China (CPC) is letting its members know that the party’s official adherence to militant atheism has not changed; Party members are not allowed to be Christians, or to hold any other religious beliefs. That is the clear message sent by a top Party official in an editorial published on November 14 in the Global Times, the international version of People’s Daily, the official newspaper and mouthpiece of the CPC.

The editorial, written by Zhou Weiqun, chairman of the Committee on Ethnic and Religious Affairs of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, blasted Chinese academics who suggest that Communist Party members can also adhere to any religion. This prohibition against religion has been a “consistently upheld principle” since Mao Zedong, the founder of the People’s Republic of China, declared Zhou. “It’s impossible to have another choice besides the dialectical materialist worldview.”..."

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1909/may/13.htm

 

[ChrisL]

You keep using the term " objective measure"; yet you don't actually use any objective measures. I hope your beliefs are founded on something other than these "objective measures" you keep referring to.

Can you tell me what good the atheistic nations did in the 20th century?

There is no such thing as an "atheistic nation." People are individuals.

All communist nations were officially atheistic nations. Every single one. No exceptions.

So? Some atheists or people who do not believe in manmade religion might be communists too. That proves nothing.

Christian communism - Wikipedia

Christian communism is a form of religious communism based on Christianity. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ compel Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Although there is no universal agreement on the exact date when Christian communism was founded, many Christian communists assert that evidence from the Bible suggests that the first Christians, including the Apostles, established their own small communist society in the years following Jesus' death and resurrection. As such, many advocates of Christian communism argue that it was taught by Jesus and practiced by the Apostles themselves.

Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx

The propaganda of atheism is necessary for our programs. Vladimir Lenin.

According to the University of Cambridge, historically, the "most notable spread of atheism was achieved through the success of the 1917 Russian Revolution, which brought the Marxist-Leninists to power."

Marxism - Investigating Atheism

Vladimir Lenin explains it thusly: "A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could."

Lenin: The Attitude of the Workers' Party to Religion

In 1955, Chinese communist leader Zhou Enlai declared, "We Communists are atheists"

Noebel, David, The Battle for Truth, Harvest House, 2001.

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism, Thursday, 20 November 2014

"The Communist Party of China (CPC) is letting its members know that the party’s official adherence to militant atheism has not changed; Party members are not allowed to be Christians, or to hold any other religious beliefs. That is the clear message sent by a top Party official in an editorial published on November 14 in the Global Times, the international version of People’s Daily, the official newspaper and mouthpiece of the CPC.

The editorial, written by Zhou Weiqun, chairman of the Committee on Ethnic and Religious Affairs of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, blasted Chinese academics who suggest that Communist Party members can also adhere to any religion. This prohibition against religion has been a “consistently upheld principle” since Mao Zedong, the founder of the People’s Republic of China, declared Zhou. “It’s impossible to have another choice besides the dialectical materialist worldview.”..."

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism

That's like saying that religious people should be equated with the KKK.