Why Did You Leave Christianity Behind?

[ding]

So what do you call it when a man abducts, rapes, tortures and murders a 6 year old girl?

A person with a diseased brain.

I see. So it really wouldn't be his fault because he has an illness, right?

That depends. Everything is not black or white.

I would say the example I just gave where a man abducts, rapes, tortures and murders a 6 year old girl is black and white. I would say he had no good in him and that is my definition of evil.

That makes him no more, or less "evil" just because you so define him. You seem to "believe" with more conviction than you "know".

I define evil as the absence of good. I see no good in a man who would abduct, rape, torture and murder a 6 year old girl. How exactly would you define him?

 

[ding]

Can you tell me what good the atheistic nations did in the 20th century?

There is no such thing as an "atheistic nation." People are individuals.

All communist nations were officially atheistic nations. Every single one. No exceptions.

So? Some atheists or people who do not believe in manmade religion might be communists too. That proves nothing.

Christian communism - Wikipedia

Christian communism is a form of religious communism based on Christianity. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ compel Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Although there is no universal agreement on the exact date when Christian communism was founded, many Christian communists assert that evidence from the Bible suggests that the first Christians, including the Apostles, established their own small communist society in the years following Jesus' death and resurrection. As such, many advocates of Christian communism argue that it was taught by Jesus and practiced by the Apostles themselves.

Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx

The propaganda of atheism is necessary for our programs. Vladimir Lenin.

According to the University of Cambridge, historically, the "most notable spread of atheism was achieved through the success of the 1917 Russian Revolution, which brought the Marxist-Leninists to power."

Marxism - Investigating Atheism

Vladimir Lenin explains it thusly: "A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could."

Lenin: The Attitude of the Workers' Party to Religion

In 1955, Chinese communist leader Zhou Enlai declared, "We Communists are atheists"

Noebel, David, The Battle for Truth, Harvest House, 2001.

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism, Thursday, 20 November 2014

"The Communist Party of China (CPC) is letting its members know that the party’s official adherence to militant atheism has not changed; Party members are not allowed to be Christians, or to hold any other religious beliefs. That is the clear message sent by a top Party official in an editorial published on November 14 in the Global Times, the international version of People’s Daily, the official newspaper and mouthpiece of the CPC.

The editorial, written by Zhou Weiqun, chairman of the Committee on Ethnic and Religious Affairs of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, blasted Chinese academics who suggest that Communist Party members can also adhere to any religion. This prohibition against religion has been a “consistently upheld principle” since Mao Zedong, the founder of the People’s Republic of China, declared Zhou. “It’s impossible to have another choice besides the dialectical materialist worldview.”..."

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism

That's like saying that religious people should be equated with the KKK.

I didn't say that. Militant atheism leads to communism. My point here is that Vastator believes that Christianity has not been a force for good. I don't believe he has the proper perspective or is objective. You are the one who interjected yourself into this conversation. I have no desire to push this point, but I will not sugar coat it. History and reason tell us that militant atheism leads to communism. It seems to me that the outcome of Christianity (i.e. Western Civilization) is a sight better than militant atheism, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Vastator]

So, that would bring me to the question of what about all the people before "Christianity" existed? What about the followers of the ancient Roman gods or the ancient Greek gods, etc? Were they all killers and/or people who did bad things?

What about people from BC who had no beliefs in gods?

The fact of the matter is that Christianity, like Judaism before it, raised the standard of conduct and behavior above that of their contemporaries. Again, not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success and faile behaviors naturally lead to failure. Despite your beliefs, by an objective measure, Christianity has been a force for good. The proof is in the pudding.

You keep using the term " objective measure"; yet you don't actually use any objective measures. I hope your beliefs are founded on something other than these "objective measures" you keep referring to.

Can you name a Civilization which has done more good for more people than Western Civilization?

Okay first of all "done more good" is completely a perspective based conclusion. Impossible to "objectively measure", as you like to say. Secondly you are again about to commit a correlation/causation fallcy with your synonymous use of Christianity, and western civilization.

So in other words you cannot name a Civilization which has done more good for more people than Western Civilization. I can't either.

Yes, Western Civilization was built on the virtues and values of Christianity. Can you name another religion that would have informed their values?

No; the words I selected will suffice. Don't trouble youself to speak on my behalf. Again you don't get to determine what is "good" in regard to all the people whom have been effected by either Western Civilization, or Christianity. However your insistence that you do, and your petulance in the face of differing opinion are one of the turn offs to Christianity numerous posters to this thread have spoken of. But you don't even see it, do you...?

 

[ChrisL]

There is no such thing as an "atheistic nation." People are individuals.

All communist nations were officially atheistic nations. Every single one. No exceptions.

So? Some atheists or people who do not believe in manmade religion might be communists too. That proves nothing.

Christian communism - Wikipedia

Christian communism is a form of religious communism based on Christianity. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ compel Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Although there is no universal agreement on the exact date when Christian communism was founded, many Christian communists assert that evidence from the Bible suggests that the first Christians, including the Apostles, established their own small communist society in the years following Jesus' death and resurrection. As such, many advocates of Christian communism argue that it was taught by Jesus and practiced by the Apostles themselves.

Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx

The propaganda of atheism is necessary for our programs. Vladimir Lenin.

According to the University of Cambridge, historically, the "most notable spread of atheism was achieved through the success of the 1917 Russian Revolution, which brought the Marxist-Leninists to power."

Marxism - Investigating Atheism

Vladimir Lenin explains it thusly: "A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could."

Lenin: The Attitude of the Workers' Party to Religion

In 1955, Chinese communist leader Zhou Enlai declared, "We Communists are atheists"

Noebel, David, The Battle for Truth, Harvest House, 2001.

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism, Thursday, 20 November 2014

"The Communist Party of China (CPC) is letting its members know that the party’s official adherence to militant atheism has not changed; Party members are not allowed to be Christians, or to hold any other religious beliefs. That is the clear message sent by a top Party official in an editorial published on November 14 in the Global Times, the international version of People’s Daily, the official newspaper and mouthpiece of the CPC.

The editorial, written by Zhou Weiqun, chairman of the Committee on Ethnic and Religious Affairs of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, blasted Chinese academics who suggest that Communist Party members can also adhere to any religion. This prohibition against religion has been a “consistently upheld principle” since Mao Zedong, the founder of the People’s Republic of China, declared Zhou. “It’s impossible to have another choice besides the dialectical materialist worldview.”..."

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism

That's like saying that religious people should be equated with the KKK.

I didn't say that. Militant atheism leads to communism. My point here is that Vastator believes that Christianity has not been a force for good. I don't believe he has the proper perspective or is objective. You are the one who interjected yourself into this conversation. I have no desire to push this point, but I will not sugar coat it. History and reason tell us that militant atheism leads to communism. It seems to me that the outcome of Christianity (i.e. Western Civilization) is a sight better than militant atheism, wouldn't you agree?

Maybe in some cases, just like in some cases religious beliefs has led to some atrocious acts. People are people. There are some who do good and some who don't.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
who is evil may not be of their own making - is why evil is not the lack of good but of its own accord and why Admission to the Everlasting is by Judgement.

 

[ding]

The fact of the matter is that Christianity, like Judaism before it, raised the standard of conduct and behavior above that of their contemporaries. Again, not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success and faile behaviors naturally lead to failure. Despite your beliefs, by an objective measure, Christianity has been a force for good. The proof is in the pudding.

You keep using the term " objective measure"; yet you don't actually use any objective measures. I hope your beliefs are founded on something other than these "objective measures" you keep referring to.

Can you name a Civilization which has done more good for more people than Western Civilization?

Okay first of all "done more good" is completely a perspective based conclusion. Impossible to "objectively measure", as you like to say. Secondly you are again about to commit a correlation/causation fallcy with your synonymous use of Christianity, and western civilization.

So in other words you cannot name a Civilization which has done more good for more people than Western Civilization. I can't either.

Yes, Western Civilization was built on the virtues and values of Christianity. Can you name another religion that would have informed their values?

No; the words I selected will suffice. Don't trouble youself to speak on my behalf. Again you don't get to determine what is "good" in regard to all the people whom have been effected by so the Western Civilization, or Christianity. However your insistence that you do, and your petulance in the face of differing opinion are one of the turn offs to Christianity numerous posters to this thread have spoken of. But you don't even see it, do you...?

What I see is lack of objectivity on your part to deny a self evident truth for the express purpose of confirming your bias. By any objective measure Christianity has been a force for good. Here is my proof. Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Christianity created wonderful charities and organizations. Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Christianity has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity. Christianity has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility. Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave. Christianity teaches that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe. Christianity helps us feel connected to one another and to nature. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit. Christianity serves to bind the community together. Christianity inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity serves to create traditions. Christianity brings order to our lives. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill. Christianity has served as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christians founded America. Christians gave us incredible artwork. Christians gave us incredible music. Christians gave us incredible architecture. Christianity has spread democracy and freedom. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression. Christians rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon. Christians ended the cold war.

 

[Vastator]

A person with a diseased brain.

I see. So it really wouldn't be his fault because he has an illness, right?

That depends. Everything is not black or white.

I would say the example I just gave where a man abducts, rapes, tortures and murders a 6 year old girl is black and white. I would say he had no good in him and that is my definition of evil.

That makes him no more, or less "evil" just because you so define him. You seem to "believe" with more conviction than you "know".

I define evil as the absence of good. I see no good in a man who would abduct, rape, torture and murder a 6 year old girl. How exactly would you define him?

I wouldn't presume a need to define him. That one difference between you, and I.

 

[ChrisL]

I see. So it really wouldn't be his fault because he has an illness, right?

That depends. Everything is not black or white.

I would say the example I just gave where a man abducts, rapes, tortures and murders a 6 year old girl is black and white. I would say he had no good in him and that is my definition of evil.

That makes him no more, or less "evil" just because you so define him. You seem to "believe" with more conviction than you "know".

I define evil as the absence of good. I see no good in a man who would abduct, rape, torture and murder a 6 year old girl. How exactly would you define him?

I wouldn't presume a need to define him. That one difference between you, and I.

The first thing I think of that is "what a sick MF'er!"

What is this guy trying to get at? That if you don't believe in manmade religions or evil that such acts are okay?

 

[ding]

All communist nations were officially atheistic nations. Every single one. No exceptions.

So? Some atheists or people who do not believe in manmade religion might be communists too. That proves nothing.

Christian communism - Wikipedia

Christian communism is a form of religious communism based on Christianity. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ compel Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Although there is no universal agreement on the exact date when Christian communism was founded, many Christian communists assert that evidence from the Bible suggests that the first Christians, including the Apostles, established their own small communist society in the years following Jesus' death and resurrection. As such, many advocates of Christian communism argue that it was taught by Jesus and practiced by the Apostles themselves.

Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx

The propaganda of atheism is necessary for our programs. Vladimir Lenin.

According to the University of Cambridge, historically, the "most notable spread of atheism was achieved through the success of the 1917 Russian Revolution, which brought the Marxist-Leninists to power."

Marxism - Investigating Atheism

Vladimir Lenin explains it thusly: "A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could."

Lenin: The Attitude of the Workers' Party to Religion

In 1955, Chinese communist leader Zhou Enlai declared, "We Communists are atheists"

Noebel, David, The Battle for Truth, Harvest House, 2001.

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism, Thursday, 20 November 2014

"The Communist Party of China (CPC) is letting its members know that the party’s official adherence to militant atheism has not changed; Party members are not allowed to be Christians, or to hold any other religious beliefs. That is the clear message sent by a top Party official in an editorial published on November 14 in the Global Times, the international version of People’s Daily, the official newspaper and mouthpiece of the CPC.

The editorial, written by Zhou Weiqun, chairman of the Committee on Ethnic and Religious Affairs of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, blasted Chinese academics who suggest that Communist Party members can also adhere to any religion. This prohibition against religion has been a “consistently upheld principle” since Mao Zedong, the founder of the People’s Republic of China, declared Zhou. “It’s impossible to have another choice besides the dialectical materialist worldview.”..."

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism

That's like saying that religious people should be equated with the KKK.

I didn't say that. Militant atheism leads to communism. My point here is that Vastator believes that Christianity has not been a force for good. I don't believe he has the proper perspective or is objective. You are the one who interjected yourself into this conversation. I have no desire to push this point, but I will not sugar coat it. History and reason tell us that militant atheism leads to communism. It seems to me that the outcome of Christianity (i.e. Western Civilization) is a sight better than militant atheism, wouldn't you agree?

Maybe in some cases, just like in some cases religious beliefs has led to some atrocious acts. People are people. There are some who do good and some who don't.

There has been no good done by atheistic nations. They murdered over 100 million people in the 20th century.

 

[ding]

I see. So it really wouldn't be his fault because he has an illness, right?

That depends. Everything is not black or white.

I would say the example I just gave where a man abducts, rapes, tortures and murders a 6 year old girl is black and white. I would say he had no good in him and that is my definition of evil.

That makes him no more, or less "evil" just because you so define him. You seem to "believe" with more conviction than you "know".

I define evil as the absence of good. I see no good in a man who would abduct, rape, torture and murder a 6 year old girl. How exactly would you define him?

I wouldn't presume a need to define him. That one difference between you, and I.

That would be the difference between you and me. I would.

 

[ChrisL]

So? Some atheists or people who do not believe in manmade religion might be communists too. That proves nothing.

Christian communism - Wikipedia

Christian communism is a form of religious communism based on Christianity. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ compel Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Although there is no universal agreement on the exact date when Christian communism was founded, many Christian communists assert that evidence from the Bible suggests that the first Christians, including the Apostles, established their own small communist society in the years following Jesus' death and resurrection. As such, many advocates of Christian communism argue that it was taught by Jesus and practiced by the Apostles themselves.

Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx

The propaganda of atheism is necessary for our programs. Vladimir Lenin.

According to the University of Cambridge, historically, the "most notable spread of atheism was achieved through the success of the 1917 Russian Revolution, which brought the Marxist-Leninists to power."

Marxism - Investigating Atheism

Vladimir Lenin explains it thusly: "A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could."

Lenin: The Attitude of the Workers' Party to Religion

In 1955, Chinese communist leader Zhou Enlai declared, "We Communists are atheists"

Noebel, David, The Battle for Truth, Harvest House, 2001.

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism, Thursday, 20 November 2014

"The Communist Party of China (CPC) is letting its members know that the party’s official adherence to militant atheism has not changed; Party members are not allowed to be Christians, or to hold any other religious beliefs. That is the clear message sent by a top Party official in an editorial published on November 14 in the Global Times, the international version of People’s Daily, the official newspaper and mouthpiece of the CPC.

The editorial, written by Zhou Weiqun, chairman of the Committee on Ethnic and Religious Affairs of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, blasted Chinese academics who suggest that Communist Party members can also adhere to any religion. This prohibition against religion has been a “consistently upheld principle” since Mao Zedong, the founder of the People’s Republic of China, declared Zhou. “It’s impossible to have another choice besides the dialectical materialist worldview.”..."

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism

That's like saying that religious people should be equated with the KKK.

I didn't say that. Militant atheism leads to communism. My point here is that Vastator believes that Christianity has not been a force for good. I don't believe he has the proper perspective or is objective. You are the one who interjected yourself into this conversation. I have no desire to push this point, but I will not sugar coat it. History and reason tell us that militant atheism leads to communism. It seems to me that the outcome of Christianity (i.e. Western Civilization) is a sight better than militant atheism, wouldn't you agree?

Maybe in some cases, just like in some cases religious beliefs has led to some atrocious acts. People are people. There are some who do good and some who don't.

There has been no good done by atheistic nations. They murdered over 100 million people in the 20th century.

And so have religious nations and leaders. So? I know you think you are making some kind of point with all of this, but you really aren't.

 

[ChrisL]

And why would a God allow an "evil atheist" to kill all of those innocent people? Why? Because there are no gods.

 

[ding]

That depends. Everything is not black or white.

I would say the example I just gave where a man abducts, rapes, tortures and murders a 6 year old girl is black and white. I would say he had no good in him and that is my definition of evil.

That makes him no more, or less "evil" just because you so define him. You seem to "believe" with more conviction than you "know".

I define evil as the absence of good. I see no good in a man who would abduct, rape, torture and murder a 6 year old girl. How exactly would you define him?

I wouldn't presume a need to define him. That one difference between you, and I.

The first thing I think of that is "what a sick MF'er!"

What is this guy trying to get at? That if you don't believe in manmade religions or evil that such acts are okay?

The discussion was started by you when you said you don't accept the Christian definition of evil. The Christian definition of evil is the absence of good. I suspect if someone abducted your daughter and raped her and tortured her and murdered her, you would then believe that person was evil. I doubt you would stop at the Christian definition of evil which is that evil is the absence of good. You should probably consider that what you believe the Christian definition of evil is is really not what Christians believe it is then you wouldn't have to keep making silly rationalizations to not call someone who is truly evil... evil.

 

[ding]

And why would a God allow an "evil atheist" to kill all of those innocent people? Why? Because there are no gods.

He leaves us pretty much to our own devices. If that is why you don't believe in God, that is a silly reason.

 

[ding]

Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx

The propaganda of atheism is necessary for our programs. Vladimir Lenin.

According to the University of Cambridge, historically, the "most notable spread of atheism was achieved through the success of the 1917 Russian Revolution, which brought the Marxist-Leninists to power."

Marxism - Investigating Atheism

Vladimir Lenin explains it thusly: "A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could."

Lenin: The Attitude of the Workers' Party to Religion

In 1955, Chinese communist leader Zhou Enlai declared, "We Communists are atheists"

Noebel, David, The Battle for Truth, Harvest House, 2001.

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism, Thursday, 20 November 2014

"The Communist Party of China (CPC) is letting its members know that the party’s official adherence to militant atheism has not changed; Party members are not allowed to be Christians, or to hold any other religious beliefs. That is the clear message sent by a top Party official in an editorial published on November 14 in the Global Times, the international version of People’s Daily, the official newspaper and mouthpiece of the CPC.

The editorial, written by Zhou Weiqun, chairman of the Committee on Ethnic and Religious Affairs of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, blasted Chinese academics who suggest that Communist Party members can also adhere to any religion. This prohibition against religion has been a “consistently upheld principle” since Mao Zedong, the founder of the People’s Republic of China, declared Zhou. “It’s impossible to have another choice besides the dialectical materialist worldview.”..."

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism

That's like saying that religious people should be equated with the KKK.

I didn't say that. Militant atheism leads to communism. My point here is that Vastator believes that Christianity has not been a force for good. I don't believe he has the proper perspective or is objective. You are the one who interjected yourself into this conversation. I have no desire to push this point, but I will not sugar coat it. History and reason tell us that militant atheism leads to communism. It seems to me that the outcome of Christianity (i.e. Western Civilization) is a sight better than militant atheism, wouldn't you agree?

Maybe in some cases, just like in some cases religious beliefs has led to some atrocious acts. People are people. There are some who do good and some who don't.

There has been no good done by atheistic nations. They murdered over 100 million people in the 20th century.

And so have religious nations and leaders. So? I know you think you are making some kind of point with all of this, but you really aren't.

Yes, I was making a point. I even explained it to you. Do you need for me to show you where and what I explained?

 

[ChrisL]

That's like saying that religious people should be equated with the KKK.

I didn't say that. Militant atheism leads to communism. My point here is that Vastator believes that Christianity has not been a force for good. I don't believe he has the proper perspective or is objective. You are the one who interjected yourself into this conversation. I have no desire to push this point, but I will not sugar coat it. History and reason tell us that militant atheism leads to communism. It seems to me that the outcome of Christianity (i.e. Western Civilization) is a sight better than militant atheism, wouldn't you agree?

Maybe in some cases, just like in some cases religious beliefs has led to some atrocious acts. People are people. There are some who do good and some who don't.

There has been no good done by atheistic nations. They murdered over 100 million people in the 20th century.

And so have religious nations and leaders. So? I know you think you are making some kind of point with all of this, but you really aren't.

Yes, I was making a point. I even explained it to you. Do you need for me to show you where and what I explained?

What point is that? The only point I see is that some people will do bad things, regardless of their beliefs.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
how you are certain the one that committed the crime wasn't driven to do so by religion.

 

[ding]

I didn't say that. Militant atheism leads to communism. My point here is that Vastator believes that Christianity has not been a force for good. I don't believe he has the proper perspective or is objective. You are the one who interjected yourself into this conversation. I have no desire to push this point, but I will not sugar coat it. History and reason tell us that militant atheism leads to communism. It seems to me that the outcome of Christianity (i.e. Western Civilization) is a sight better than militant atheism, wouldn't you agree?

Maybe in some cases, just like in some cases religious beliefs has led to some atrocious acts. People are people. There are some who do good and some who don't.

There has been no good done by atheistic nations. They murdered over 100 million people in the 20th century.

And so have religious nations and leaders. So? I know you think you are making some kind of point with all of this, but you really aren't.

Yes, I was making a point. I even explained it to you. Do you need for me to show you where and what I explained?

What point is that? The only point I see is that some people will do bad things, regardless of their beliefs.

I explained it in post #233. My point here is that Vastator believes that Christianity has not been a force for good. I don't believe he has the proper perspective or is objective. You are the one who interjected yourself into this conversation. I have no desire to push this point, but I will not sugar coat it. History and reason tell us that militant atheism leads to communism. It seems to me that the outcome of Christianity (i.e. Western Civilization) is a sight better than militant atheism. Do you want me to continue proving this?

 

[Vastator]

There is no such thing as an "atheistic nation." People are individuals.

All communist nations were officially atheistic nations. Every single one. No exceptions.

So? Some atheists or people who do not believe in manmade religion might be communists too. That proves nothing.

Christian communism - Wikipedia

Christian communism is a form of religious communism based on Christianity. It is a theological and political theory based upon the view that the teachings of Jesus Christ compel Christians to support communism as the ideal social system. Although there is no universal agreement on the exact date when Christian communism was founded, many Christian communists assert that evidence from the Bible suggests that the first Christians, including the Apostles, established their own small communist society in the years following Jesus' death and resurrection. As such, many advocates of Christian communism argue that it was taught by Jesus and practiced by the Apostles themselves.

Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx

The propaganda of atheism is necessary for our programs. Vladimir Lenin.

According to the University of Cambridge, historically, the "most notable spread of atheism was achieved through the success of the 1917 Russian Revolution, which brought the Marxist-Leninists to power."

Marxism - Investigating Atheism

Vladimir Lenin explains it thusly: "A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could."

Lenin: The Attitude of the Workers' Party to Religion

In 1955, Chinese communist leader Zhou Enlai declared, "We Communists are atheists"

Noebel, David, The Battle for Truth, Harvest House, 2001.

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism, Thursday, 20 November 2014

"The Communist Party of China (CPC) is letting its members know that the party’s official adherence to militant atheism has not changed; Party members are not allowed to be Christians, or to hold any other religious beliefs. That is the clear message sent by a top Party official in an editorial published on November 14 in the Global Times, the international version of People’s Daily, the official newspaper and mouthpiece of the CPC.

The editorial, written by Zhou Weiqun, chairman of the Committee on Ethnic and Religious Affairs of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, blasted Chinese academics who suggest that Communist Party members can also adhere to any religion. This prohibition against religion has been a “consistently upheld principle” since Mao Zedong, the founder of the People’s Republic of China, declared Zhou. “It’s impossible to have another choice besides the dialectical materialist worldview.”..."

China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism

That's like saying that religious people should be equated with the KKK.

I didn't say that. Militant atheism leads to communism. My point here is that Vastator believes that Christianity has not been a force for good. I don't believe he has the proper perspective or is objective. You are the one who interjected yourself into this conversation. I have no desire to push this point, but I will not sugar coat it. History and reason tell us that militant atheism leads to communism. It seems to me that the outcome of Christianity (i.e. Western Civilization) is a sight better than militant atheism, wouldn't you agree?

Wrong... Wow! You're pretty arrogant. Vanity is a Christian sin is it not? I simply did not choose to "agree with your statement that "Christianity is the greatest force of good ever". But rather pointed out that "good", is like beauty. It's in the eye of the beholder. But you instead; because I didn't "agree" with you; You assumed I held an opposing position. You were wrong. Not everyone who chooses not to take up your cause is your opponent. Unless... Your one of those "if you're not with me, you're against me" types. Which frankly matches the demeanor you've displayed in this thread heretofore.

 

[ChrisL]

Maybe in some cases, just like in some cases religious beliefs has led to some atrocious acts. People are people. There are some who do good and some who don't.

There has been no good done by atheistic nations. They murdered over 100 million people in the 20th century.

And so have religious nations and leaders. So? I know you think you are making some kind of point with all of this, but you really aren't.

Yes, I was making a point. I even explained it to you. Do you need for me to show you where and what I explained?

What point is that? The only point I see is that some people will do bad things, regardless of their beliefs.

My point here is that Vastator believes that Christianity has not been a force for good. I don't believe he has the proper perspective or is objective. You are the one who interjected yourself into this conversation. I have no desire to push this point, but I will not sugar coat it. History and reason tell us that militant atheism leads to communism. It seems to me that the outcome of Christianity (i.e. Western Civilization) is a sight better than militant atheism. Do you want me to continue proving this?

No need to sugar coat anything. I'm fully aware that there are some people who do good things and some who do bad things, regardless of their religious beliefs or lack of.