Why Did You Leave Christianity Behind?

[ChrisL]

Yeah, the common sense stuff!

Like what? Virtues?

Look friend, societies existed long before the "invention" of Christianity. Think on that.

Sure they, did and they provide an excellent comparative tool proving that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes.

And I never claimed they did. You are the one claiming (albeit in a kind of subtle way) that Christianity is to be praised for everything that is right and just in the world. No one else has made these types of claims, yet I suppose the religious folks would say that WE are the arrogant ones.

No. I don't believe I did claim that. In fact let me state that not everything that Christians have done has been good. What I am saying is that one must weight the good and bad and that by any objective measure the good has out weighed the bad as evidenced by the outcomes of our society.

I do think that society would have adopted such rules even if there were no man-made religions in existence. Our order and rules for society are based on our education and enlightenment. Back in the olden days, people were terribly ignorant and uneducated on average.

 

[ding]

A man is remembered by his deeds. If his deeds are great, others will take note of what motivated them to achieve said deeds. It is ones virtues that, by which a man measures his steps. If his steps are chosen carefully he will attain heights that will inspire others, where by not only does his name live on, but so too will the importance of his virtues.

Agreed. To say that differently, do the right thing, the right way, for the right reason and you can seldom go wrong.

 

[ChrisL]

And? Many Christian leaders and other religious leaders (and followers for that matter) have done "evil" deeds. Where are you going with this?

Sure they did. That doesn't mean we should throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. I'm not going anywhere with this. I'm just having a conversation. This specific conversation started with your belief on evil. I just provided my thoughts on it which came from what my faith taught me on the subject.

I don't really believe in "evil" (as Christianity would define it), so you should say my LACK of belief in evil.

You don't believe that evil is the absence of good?

I already addressed that question.

Then I didn't understand it. Christianity teaches that evil is the absence of good. Is that inconsistent with your belief?

I already told you that I don't believe in evil, and that I believe that there is something good (even if it may be WAY down inside) in everyone.

 

[Vastator]

Yeah, the common sense stuff!

Like what? Virtues?

Look friend, societies existed long before the "invention" of Christianity. Think on that.

Sure they, did and they provide an excellent comparative tool proving that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes.

And I never claimed they did. You are the one claiming (albeit in a kind of subtle way) that Christianity is to be praised for everything that is right and just in the world. No one else has made these types of claims, yet I suppose the religious folks would say that WE are the arrogant ones.

No. I don't believe I did claim that. In fact let me state that not everything that Christians have done has been good. What I am saying is that one must weight the good and bad and that by any objective measure the good has out weighed the bad as evidenced by the outcomes of our society.

You have absolutely no conceivable way of objectively measuring your claim. That post was truly nonsense. No offense. But it was.

 

[ding]

Like what? Virtues?

Look friend, societies existed long before the "invention" of Christianity. Think on that.

Sure they, did and they provide an excellent comparative tool proving that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes.

And I never claimed they did. You are the one claiming (albeit in a kind of subtle way) that Christianity is to be praised for everything that is right and just in the world. No one else has made these types of claims, yet I suppose the religious folks would say that WE are the arrogant ones.

No. I don't believe I did claim that. In fact let me state that not everything that Christians have done has been good. What I am saying is that one must weight the good and bad and that by any objective measure the good has out weighed the bad as evidenced by the outcomes of our society.

I do think that society would have adopted such rules even if there were no man-made religions in existence. Our order and rules for society are based on our education and enlightenment. Back in the olden days, people were terribly ignorant and uneducated on average.

Maybe. Suffering does have a way of making people change their behaviors.

 

[ding]

Sure they did. That doesn't mean we should throw the baby out with the dirty bath water. I'm not going anywhere with this. I'm just having a conversation. This specific conversation started with your belief on evil. I just provided my thoughts on it which came from what my faith taught me on the subject.

I don't really believe in "evil" (as Christianity would define it), so you should say my LACK of belief in evil.

You don't believe that evil is the absence of good?

I already addressed that question.

Then I didn't understand it. Christianity teaches that evil is the absence of good. Is that inconsistent with your belief?

I already told you that I don't believe in evil, and that I believe that there is something good (even if it may be WAY down inside) in everyone.

So what do you call it when a man abducts, rapes, tortures and murders a 6 year old girl?

 

[ChrisL]

I don't really believe in "evil" (as Christianity would define it), so you should say my LACK of belief in evil.

You don't believe that evil is the absence of good?

I already addressed that question.

Then I didn't understand it. Christianity teaches that evil is the absence of good. Is that inconsistent with your belief?

I already told you that I don't believe in evil, and that I believe that there is something good (even if it may be WAY down inside) in everyone.

So what do you call it when a man abducts, rapes, tortures and murders a 6 year old girl?

A person with a diseased brain.

 

[ChrisL]

Look friend, societies existed long before the "invention" of Christianity. Think on that.

Sure they, did and they provide an excellent comparative tool proving that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes.

And I never claimed they did. You are the one claiming (albeit in a kind of subtle way) that Christianity is to be praised for everything that is right and just in the world. No one else has made these types of claims, yet I suppose the religious folks would say that WE are the arrogant ones.

No. I don't believe I did claim that. In fact let me state that not everything that Christians have done has been good. What I am saying is that one must weight the good and bad and that by any objective measure the good has out weighed the bad as evidenced by the outcomes of our society.

I do think that society would have adopted such rules even if there were no man-made religions in existence. Our order and rules for society are based on our education and enlightenment. Back in the olden days, people were terribly ignorant and uneducated on average.

Maybe. Suffering does have a way of making people change their behaviors.

Basically you are trying to claim that if weren't for Christianity and it's teachings, people would have no moral compass. Is that right?

 

[ChrisL]

So, that would bring me to the question of what about all the people before "Christianity" existed? What about the followers of the ancient Roman gods or the ancient Greek gods, etc? Were they all killers and/or people who did bad things?

What about people from BC who had no beliefs in gods?

 

[BreezeWood]

as evidenced by the outcomes of our society.

those are more based on economic cycles and outcomes of wars than organized religions.

 

[ding]

Like what? Virtues?

Look friend, societies existed long before the "invention" of Christianity. Think on that.

Sure they, did and they provide an excellent comparative tool proving that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes.

And I never claimed they did. You are the one claiming (albeit in a kind of subtle way) that Christianity is to be praised for everything that is right and just in the world. No one else has made these types of claims, yet I suppose the religious folks would say that WE are the arrogant ones.

No. I don't believe I did claim that. In fact let me state that not everything that Christians have done has been good. What I am saying is that one must weight the good and bad and that by any objective measure the good has out weighed the bad as evidenced by the outcomes of our society.

You have absolutely no conceivable way of objectively measuring your claim. That post was truly nonsense. No offense. But it was.

Sure I do. Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Christianity created wonderful charities and organizations. Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Christianity has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity. Christianity has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility. Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave. Christianity teaches that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe. Christianity helps us feel connected to one another and to nature. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit. Christianity serves to bind the community together. Christianity inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity serves to create traditions. Christianity brings order to our lives. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill. Christianity has served as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christians founded America. Christians gave us incredible artwork. Christians gave us incredible music. Christians gave us incredible architecture. Christianity has spread democracy and freedom. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression. Christians rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon. Christians ended the cold war.

 

[MaryL]

Many Americans grew up steeped in Christian culture. Went to church events. Celebrated the holidays. Even took part in the rituals.

Then... Many have an awakening, or change of heart if you will. And ultimately walk away; or reject the Christian religion out right. In the end, there are probably as many reasons as there are people...

What was yours?

Gay priest raped raped me? Sorry, never happened. My catholic father died of cirrhosis of the liver , too much sacramental wine perhaps? I hate the catholic church stance now, how they defend the indefensible. defending illegal aliens, men raping boys, no. They don't get away either.

 

[ding]

So, that would bring me to the question of what about all the people before "Christianity" existed? What about the followers of the ancient Roman gods or the ancient Greek gods, etc? Were they all killers and/or people who did bad things?

What about people from BC who had no beliefs in gods?

The fact of the matter is that Christianity, like Judaism before it, raised the standard of conduct and behavior above that of their contemporaries. Again, not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success and faile behaviors naturally lead to failure. Despite your beliefs, by an objective measure, Christianity has been a force for good. The proof is in the pudding.

 

[ChrisL]

So, that would bring me to the question of what about all the people before "Christianity" existed? What about the followers of the ancient Roman gods or the ancient Greek gods, etc? Were they all killers and/or people who did bad things?

What about people from BC who had no beliefs in gods?

The fact of the matter is that Christianity, like Judaism before it, raised the standard of conduct and behavior above that of their contemporaries. Again, not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success and faile behaviors naturally lead to failure. Despite your beliefs, by an objective measure, Christianity has been a force for good. The proof is in the pudding.

In some instances it has and some it hasn't, just like with a lot of things and beliefs. I don't think anyone has claimed otherwise.

 

[ding]

You don't believe that evil is the absence of good?

I already addressed that question.

Then I didn't understand it. Christianity teaches that evil is the absence of good. Is that inconsistent with your belief?

I already told you that I don't believe in evil, and that I believe that there is something good (even if it may be WAY down inside) in everyone.

So what do you call it when a man abducts, rapes, tortures and murders a 6 year old girl?

A person with a diseased brain.

I see. So it really wouldn't be his fault because he has an illness, right?

 

[ChrisL]

I already addressed that question.

Then I didn't understand it. Christianity teaches that evil is the absence of good. Is that inconsistent with your belief?

I already told you that I don't believe in evil, and that I believe that there is something good (even if it may be WAY down inside) in everyone.

So what do you call it when a man abducts, rapes, tortures and murders a 6 year old girl?

A person with a diseased brain.

I see. So it really wouldn't be his fault because he has an illness, right?

That depends. Everything is not black or white.

 

[ding]

So, that would bring me to the question of what about all the people before "Christianity" existed? What about the followers of the ancient Roman gods or the ancient Greek gods, etc? Were they all killers and/or people who did bad things?

What about people from BC who had no beliefs in gods?

The fact of the matter is that Christianity, like Judaism before it, raised the standard of conduct and behavior above that of their contemporaries. Again, not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. Successful behaviors naturally lead to success and faile behaviors naturally lead to failure. Despite your beliefs, by an objective measure, Christianity has been a force for good. The proof is in the pudding.

In some instances it has and some it hasn't, just like with a lot of things and beliefs. I don't think anyone has claimed otherwise.

Vastator just did.

Why Did You Leave Christianity Behind?

 

[Pogo]

Look friend, societies existed long before the "invention" of Christianity. Think on that.

Sure they, did and they provide an excellent comparative tool proving that not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes.

And I never claimed they did. You are the one claiming (albeit in a kind of subtle way) that Christianity is to be praised for everything that is right and just in the world. No one else has made these types of claims, yet I suppose the religious folks would say that WE are the arrogant ones.

No. I don't believe I did claim that. In fact let me state that not everything that Christians have done has been good. What I am saying is that one must weight the good and bad and that by any objective measure the good has out weighed the bad as evidenced by the outcomes of our society.

You have absolutely no conceivable way of objectively measuring your claim. That post was truly nonsense. No offense. But it was.

Sure I do. Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Christianity created wonderful charities and organizations. Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Christianity has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Christianity gave us the concept of subsidiarity. Christianity has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Christianity teaches accountability and responsibility. Christianity teaches that we have a choice in how we behave. Christianity teaches that actions have consequences. Christianity inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe. Christianity helps us feel connected to one another and to nature. Christianity helps us feel less alone in the world. Christianity serves to ennoble the human spirit. Christianity serves to bind the community together. Christianity inspires love, peace and happiness. Christianity serves to create traditions. Christianity brings order to our lives. Christianity brings comfort to the terminally ill. Christianity has served as a source of hope for the oppressed. Christianity teaches that we can transform ourselves. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Christians founded America. Christians gave us incredible artwork. Christians gave us incredible music. Christians gave us incredible architecture. Christianity has spread democracy and freedom. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression. Christians rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. Christians put a man on the moon. Christians ended the cold war.

Holy SHIT man --- two words: "paragraph breaks". Nobody's gonna read the world's longest run-on sentence. Damn.

>> Christianity promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Christianity created wonderful charities and organizations. Christians and Christian institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Christianity has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. <<​

Religions in general do that. For that matter nonreligious charitable organizations in general do that. Nothing in the above is specific to Xianity.

>> Christianity has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. <<​

That ain't the job of any government anyway. That's a moral code. And again, nothing to do specifically with Xianity.

>> Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market <<​

Doooooon't think so dood. Liberalism did that.

That's enough mirth and merriment for now. I need air.

 

[ChrisL]

I don't hate religious people. They are just usually super annoying peeps!

 

[ding]

Then I didn't understand it. Christianity teaches that evil is the absence of good. Is that inconsistent with your belief?

I already told you that I don't believe in evil, and that I believe that there is something good (even if it may be WAY down inside) in everyone.

So what do you call it when a man abducts, rapes, tortures and murders a 6 year old girl?

A person with a diseased brain.

I see. So it really wouldn't be his fault because he has an illness, right?

That depends. Everything is not black or white.

I would say the example I just gave where a man abducts, rapes, tortures and murders a 6 year old girl is black and white. I would say he had no good in him and that is my definition of evil.